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Leal
Oct 2, 2009
Thing dragging down every game with npc shop schedules: When they close up for a day. Whether its a game where you sell stuff directly to the shop or need to buy stuff from the shop to plant crops or in games with equipment durability and you need to purchase replacements, the game just goes "gently caress off" and you end up just going to bed in the afternoon so they'll open shop the next day.

What got me to post this is playing Dinkum, gently caress you John and being closed on Sundays. I got all these fish and bugs in my pockets to sell :argh:

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Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

I've only really tried to lean into parrying in Elden Ring for a while, but basically my take is that it's really just something for showing off and making easy fights quicker, and not really something that helps you in fights that are still difficult for you. The timing is a lot tighter than it is for dodging, so in practice by the time you can reliably parry a given enemy, you were already able to easily dodge them to begin with and likely had no trouble beating them. Meanwhile against enemies you're struggling with, the risk/reward balance of parrying just doesn't bear out in your favour.

That reminds me of a larger gripe I have with ER: For all the variety in melee weapons, in practice they all end up feeling very samey. Towards the endgame I cheated myself a whole bunch of respecs and weapon upgrade materials to try out a bunch of the weapon classes, and the overall dynamic of fights barely ever changed. Even with the biggest, chunkiest greatswords, any enemy that isn't just pure chaff will still just poise through your hits, so no matter whether you're using shortswords, dual-wielding, spears, thrusting swords, greatswords, maces, or whatever, the rhythm of the fight never changes and your weapon doesn't meaningfully change the way in which you approach a fight.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
Parrying is incredibly useful in DS games depending on the foe but the timing is just so loving wonky and seems to change from game to game and enemy to enemy that it's hardly ever worth the risk and really hard to get down. But, man, it feels sweet when you get one. Problem is, there's hardly any ticky tack non threatening areas to really practice it with because even low level guys can gently caress your poo poo up if you dick around and whiff too much.

At least for me since I suck at these games.

Even the back stabs have weird opportunity windows/angles and about half the time what looks like a perfectly clean one doesn't animate. Often, what seems like should be a very basic 90 degree opening from behind doesn't really work that way and, again, seems to depend on the enemy. The big heavy shield Knights especially have a strange 110 degree angle in order to hit the sweet spot.

I've been stuck on Twin Princes in DS3 for a month now (granted I only play on weekends for a few hours) because I can't get my dodge timing down - let alone parrying the motherfucker - even though on one try it worked and I thought I'd found the key to finally kicking their asses. I can get to phase two regularly and have tried everything from ranged weapons, to different shields to fast rolling to leveling up/soul farming, heavy v fast weapons, buffs, ring combos and I've totally hit a wall. The summon is not available to me since I hosed up a side quest and also play offline.

I really hate getting stuck on bosses in these games - especially the run back to them - and really think they should let you load by the fog doors at least. That elevator ride has nothing new to offer me after the 40th one. Other than that, DS is all I feel like playing lately.

kazil
Jul 24, 2005

Derpmph trial star reporter!

Dark Souls 3 multiplayer is back up. You should grab a phantom to help you with Twin Princes

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received

2house2fly posted:

Ah, this is me playing Elden Ring and having a vague idea of a mechanic called "parry" that might help in certain combat encounters, but paying it no mind because it would probably require me to stop using Bloodhound Step

Parrying as a skill means that I can't use it with my Most Holy Dumptruck rear end, or the instant stance-break fire, or my cool somersault slash, or stabbing the Formless Mother, or spilling lava everywhere, or throwing exploding glitter. Skills are varied, versatile, useful in every build, and having a shield with Parry means L2 is Parry of breathing fire from my dragon hand.

They already had the solution in Bloodborne, by making it the action of my offhand weapon, and by making said offhand weapon a gun. Let me shoot a crucible knight in the face then blow bubbles at them!

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Perestroika posted:

I've only really tried to lean into parrying in Elden Ring for a while, but basically my take is that it's really just something for showing off and making easy fights quicker, and not really something that helps you in fights that are still difficult for you.

no, parrying absolutely makes some difficult things much easier such as crucible knights, the triple crystalian fight, commander o'neal if you go to caelid early like I did, etc

I never really used it in dark souls except on gwyn but it's an extremely helpful thing to take advantage of in elden ring, particularly earlier on before you have as many cheese options to pull from

KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!
Parrying in Bloodborne is different than in dark souls/Elden ring though. It can be done instantly, at a distance, and you even have a dedicated buttin to instantly refill your bullets. The risk for a failed parry is basically non-existent here

You're making combat so much more tedious by not parrying with your bullets, it's as essential as hopping into enemy attacks and the rally mechanic

Dark souls/Elden ring are very different and the comparisons don't really match up. In those games parrying is definitely more gimmicky and to show off you are Very Good at timing/animations (though it becomes stupidly easy to do in dark souls 1 once you have the timing down)

E: oh people earlier up thread actually repeated these exact same points so feel free to disregard

KingSlime has a new favorite as of 21:26 on Aug 27, 2022

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Shields are for looking pretty on my back and giving me a tiny stamina boost while I have both hands firmly wrapped around my big stick. :colbert:

Yes I know you can technically still parry, but the timing is even more awkward that way.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

My portable meatgrinder that is the Whirligig Saw leaves me no hand free to use a gun and I wouldn't have it any other way

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

Gay Rat Wedding posted:

but because this is the thing dragging games down thread: Viscerals don't trigger correctly if an enemy is at a different elevation at you and that's very annoying

WHY HAVEN'T THEY EVER FIXED THIS, IT IS INFURIATING IN ELDEN RING, A VIDEO GAME THAT IS MADE ENTIRELY OF DIFFERING ELEVATION.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
Genuinely I don't blame anyone who doesn't wanna learn a mechanic that is explicitly risk/reward such as parrying. Don't feel the reward is worth it? Then you're justified in not taking the risk, no harm no foul! Now, if you were doing something like ignoring the rally system and backing off when damaged instead of smacking the enemy to heal for example, that'd be different and more the article's thing.

edit: There is one reason to learn parrying and I don't think it's specified anywhere, but in each souls game and I think even Bloodborne there's an "overkill" stat where if you drain an enemy to a certain negative percentage of health with your final attack, you'll get more souls from killing 'em. But that's not really worth purely learning the system unless you want to put on the ROFAP, silver serpent ring, parry gwyn and receive like 90,000 more souls from him.

CJacobs has a new favorite as of 22:29 on Aug 27, 2022

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


I'd love to learn how to parry better, but I also accept that I'm too old and slow to do it

Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

CJacobs posted:

Genuinely I don't blame anyone who doesn't wanna learn a mechanic that is explicitly risk/reward such as parrying.
I do, because learning to successfully parry feels and looks loving awesome.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

Agents are GO! posted:

I do, because learning to successfully parry feels and looks loving awesome.

See The Surge 2 where the sound, look and feel of a successful parry is immensely satisfying and arguably a parry focussed build is the best build possible. The riposte after a parry always looks utterly devastating and once you get the timing down all of a sudden the game just clicks and formerly overwhelming challenges become downright fair.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

I don't parry in souls games because there's not enough feedback for me to learn it. I try to parry an attack and die instead. Was I too early? Too late? Was it an unparryable attack? Who knows!

kazil
Jul 24, 2005

Derpmph trial star reporter!

Spend a crazy amount of time learning to parry attacks in a souls game so that in the next game From just changes attack timings to gently caress with you!

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.

CJacobs posted:

WHY HAVEN'T THEY EVER FIXED THIS, IT IS INFURIATING IN ELDEN RING, A VIDEO GAME THAT IS MADE ENTIRELY OF DIFFERING ELEVATION.

This is a problem with a lot of takedowns/finishers in games and there aren't really any good general solutions. Either you put someone in the air/ ground or you angle them based on the surface, neither of which looks good and have their own sources of compound issues. I can't remember which game but there was one that had special simplified takedowns just for stairs and slopes rather than locking you out of it, however with the amount of different enemies Bloodbourne has that's not really feasible.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

kazil posted:

Spend a crazy amount of time learning to parry attacks in a souls game so that in the next game From just changes attack timings to gently caress with you!

They do that for dodge roll timing too.
the first boss of elden ring is famous for spending like 5 whole seconds holding a stick above his head going "i'm gonna hit you, oooh i'm gonna hit you, seriously I'm gonna swing this stick any day now, watch out!" and somehow murdering hundreds of experienced souls gamers because they get twitchy and roll too early.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

Hel posted:

This is a problem with a lot of takedowns/finishers in games and there aren't really any good general solutions. Either you put someone in the air/ ground or you angle them based on the surface, neither of which looks good and have their own sources of compound issues. I can't remember which game but there was one that had special simplified takedowns just for stairs and slopes rather than locking you out of it, however with the amount of different enemies Bloodbourne has that's not really feasible.

Yeah, totally. Even the Souls games cheat by letting the ripostes just fling you off edges and then teleport you back like nothing happened. It's just an accepted and tbh fair practice in gaming that sometimes it'll look goofy and a dude will float in the air.

Dishonored (been playing it recently) has a super cool solution. If your strike would have been the killing blow and gotten a killcam, they get sucked up to you for the cam and then you both jump down to where they were standing so it looks like no one teleported. The Last of Us 2 is also full of "gently caress you" sparta-kicks to the face when you're standing higher than the enemy on stairs etc.

CJacobs has a new favorite as of 23:05 on Aug 27, 2022

Waste of Breath
Dec 30, 2021

I only know🧠 one1️⃣ thing🪨: I😡 want😤 to 🔪kill☠️… 😈Chaos😱… I need🥵 to. [TIME⏰ TO DIE☠️]
:same:

The Lone Badger posted:

I don't parry in souls games because there's not enough feedback for me to learn it. I try to parry an attack and die instead. Was I too early? Too late? Was it an unparryable attack? Who knows!

Same complaint but fighting game combos. Good luck figuring out why it failed!

OutOfPrint
Apr 9, 2009

Fun Shoe

Breetai posted:

See The Surge 2 where the sound, look and feel of a successful parry is immensely satisfying and arguably a parry focussed build is the best build possible. The riposte after a parry always looks utterly devastating and once you get the timing down all of a sudden the game just clicks and formerly overwhelming challenges become downright fair.

The Surge 2 absolutely nailed combat and parries in particular. You have to parry in the direction of an enemy attack, but there's a minor piece of equipment you get almost immediately that shows the direction of attack. It's more involved that the DS model but much more forgiving with timing.

That and getting equipment and upgrades by hacking off parts of enemies makes it my favorite non-From DS clone.

For content, I'm playing Weird West and it plays like a game from 1998. The mouse controls feel weird and inaccurate, the maps are small and dated, the audio mix is just bizarre with the voice clips being mostly nonsense whispering so low that I thought I was hearing someone behind me instead. I like it because I have a high tolerance for janky poo poo, but it's definitely janky poo poo.

moosecow333
Mar 15, 2007

Super-Duper Supermen!
From pulled a serious prank by making three games in a row with wonky parry mechanics and then making Sekiro where it’s your most important move.

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007

I'm an absolute beast at parrying in Dark Souls 1, and loving godawful at it in 2.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Breetai posted:

See The Surge 2 where the sound, look and feel of a successful parry is immensely satisfying and arguably a parry focussed build is the best build possible. The riposte after a parry always looks utterly devastating and once you get the timing down all of a sudden the game just clicks and formerly overwhelming challenges become downright fair.

I struggle to even comprehend how you'd play that any other way. The first game didn't have a single coherent defensive option, everything just kinda worked most of the time, but 2 is hugely biased towards parrying.

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌

John Murdoch posted:

I struggle to even comprehend how you'd play that any other way. The first game didn't have a single coherent defensive option, everything just kinda worked most of the time, but 2 is hugely biased towards parrying.

Surge 1 was basically "get in with a sliding attack, hopefully stagger them, and if not then back dodge and hit them after they swing".

NG+ on the surge 1 is very fun though, because you get to double up on implants that were balanced to be unique in your first playthrough and just utterly body enemies constantly. The the second DLC came out and basically gave you the ability to farm infinite copies of the most powerful implants in the game.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

Xenoblade 3, a virtually perfect videogame, still does not have the in-game resources to tell you where any enemy drops are

If you're crafting gems and need 20 x 5 of some rare enemy mats, you're gonna be doing a lot of googling (and if you haven't beat the game yet, hoping you don't get spoiled)

SLOSifl
Aug 10, 2002


Breetai posted:

See The Surge 2 where the sound, look and feel of a successful parry is immensely satisfying and arguably a parry focussed build is the best build possible. The riposte after a parry always looks utterly devastating and once you get the timing down all of a sudden the game just clicks and formerly overwhelming challenges become downright fair.
The Surge and its sequel, plus Lords of the Fallen did a really good job of expanding the soulslike formula. Lords of the Fallen was arguably lovely but I like the increased experience gain for not resting at bonfires plus the alternative boss-kill weapons. It was sort of like cutting off tails in DS1. The Surge made parrying always-available and multi-choice with predictable outcomes. The Surge 1 and 2 both fully embraced the wraparound map design too. Very much a respectable interpretation vs a bad cover song. Sort of like 10 Thing I Hate About You, but instead of Shakespeare it’s Dark Souls.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

John Murdoch posted:

I struggle to even comprehend how you'd play that any other way. The first game didn't have a single coherent defensive option, everything just kinda worked most of the time, but 2 is hugely biased towards parrying.

If you're bloody-minded enough you can build for survivability and just heal through enemy attacks.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
The Surge 2's parrying is so awesome that the other mechanics you have are made to look bland by comparison even though they're not haha. Being able to jump and duck attacks and deliver a kung-fu riposte (block and hit Dodge while an attack is coming at you) is a move that returns from The Surge 1 which the game doesn't even tell you that you can still do because it's got so many new ones on offer.

edit: Another bit of tech you have to discover on your own is you can parry moves that have no indicator using the 'upward' parry because it is also a 'forward' shove on most weapons but spears. It also works kind of like the Sekiro parry under the surface mechanically in that spamming it causes you to have fewer frames than just tapping once and letting your dude return to neutral. You're rewarded for waiting and watching, instead of bouncing around like a lunatic like in most action games! Even if you don't have to wait very long.

You also can bounce around like a lunatic. You just have to make a build focused around cherry tapping, intentionally doing low damage to keep enemies alive and sap them for energy to heal through any poo poo they could throw at you.

CJacobs has a new favorite as of 05:03 on Aug 29, 2022

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

🥄Mah spoon is too big!🍌
Also love the risk/reward of tooling around and killing people without accessing the main med station. You get a 10% bonus in tech scrap (the main currency, tailing down to 5% after a while) per kill for each time you kill an enemy using a finishing move. You can either bank tech scrap at a med station that resets enemies and removes the bonus while also healing you and refilling your injectables, or else use an upgrade station that resets enemies but doesn't heal you or refill your injectables. So there's real choice as to how long you want to push for farming scrap while gradually losing healing resources and risking losing it all if you're killed and can't recover your scrap in time

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

CJacobs posted:

You also can bounce around like a lunatic. You just have to make a build focused around cherry tapping, intentionally doing low damage to keep enemies alive and sap them for energy to heal through any poo poo they could throw at you.

I built around being hit.
Seriously. There's a implant that gives you energy when you get hit, and with enough mitigation and efficiency you can use that energy to heal more damage than you just took.

Qwertycoatl
Dec 31, 2008

The weapon upgrade chains in Monster Hunter Rise can be annoyingly long. I'm in early-mid master rank, and a lot of the weapons I want to craft can't be crafted directly but have to be upgraded in a sequence starting in high rank or even low rank. Wailing on some LR monster to get some mats isn't difficult but it's a bit of a tedious distraction from the hunts I actually want to do.

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.
According to Origin, I have 29 hours in Mass Effect Andromeda between an abandoned playthrough and my current one. And I'm still struggling to decide if I even like the game or not. The combat is fantastic and fluid, jumping around with a jetpack is a lot of fun. But the questing just isn't. The sidequests in particular are empty gaming calories. They're MMO sidequests, designed to waste five minutes of your dwindling life doing something you probably aren't even enjoying. And the main story itself is only barely more interesting. I feel just invested that I want to see where everything is going and then I'm probably never going to think about it ever again.

The game is merely okay. I guess?

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Deleted Saints Row 3 off my account after I ran into the bug where your upgrades disappear.

What games are the worst when your loadout or equipment straight up disappears due to bugs? rear end Creed 3 is an obvious example.

Professor Wayne
Aug 27, 2008

So, Harvey, what became of the giant penny?

They actually let him keep it.
Are Space Pirates in Metroid considered bugs?

Read After Burning
Feb 19, 2013

"All this, for me? 💃Ah, you didn't have to! 🥰"

Inspector Gesicht posted:

What games are the worst when your loadout or equipment straight up disappears due to bugs? rear end Creed 3 is an obvious example.

Not QUITE what you mean, but Fable 3 had "John Cleese voicing your butler" as a big selling point. The game also had a thing where instead of menus for your equipment, etc. you had a home base to run around in, with the butler making comments all the while.

Unfortunately, there was a very common bug where halfway through the game, your butler would just...stop talking...thus presumably wasting all the money they spent to hire John Cleese.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Outriders infamously had (at least?) one instance of a bug that just permanently wiped players’ inventories and they apparently had no database backups or similar means to fix it

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs 🎤of siren 🧜🏻‍♀️songs
To oohs😮 to ahhs😱 to 👏big👏applause👏
With all of my 😡anger I scream🤬 and shout📢
🇺🇸America🦅, I love you 🥰but you're freaking 💦me 😳out
Biscuit Hider

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

They do that for dodge roll timing too.
the first boss of elden ring is famous for spending like 5 whole seconds holding a stick above his head going "i'm gonna hit you, oooh i'm gonna hit you, seriously I'm gonna swing this stick any day now, watch out!" and somehow murdering hundreds of experienced souls gamers because they get twitchy and roll too early.

I’m in this post and I don’t like it

RyokoTK
Feb 12, 2012

I am cool.
One of the reasons that Malenia is such a dogshit fight is that she’s a normal sized lady with a sword yet most of her attacks are unparryable and you have to get three consecutive parries to actually elicit a stun. That is a mechanic that I think has never existed in a DS game before. So fuckin stupid. Parrying in DS games is cool as hell but trying to learn it as a tactic is the game spitting in your face over and over.

eta also she does absurd damage and heals when she hits you even if you fully block the damage. Despite seeming like a boss that would reward this very risky mechanic it very much punishes it instead.

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Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

She's a head and a half taller than you

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