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Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

Considering how many different 5e versions of existing RPGs have been announced/made/released I feel that point has already been passed.
Free League announced that they're doing a LOTR book for 5e and Cubicle 7 announced a new game using 5e rules during Gencon for instance.

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Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.
I always find it weird some players don’t want adventures at least a little tailored to them. Sherlock Holmes, classy and ingenious addict, won’t be good in a space marines campaign. Wolverine won’t fit Golden Sky Stories. He probably also wouldn’t fit a Runaways campaign, despite being in the “right“ genre.

Railing Kill
Nov 14, 2008

You are the first crack in the sheer face of god. From you it will spread.

BabyFur Denny posted:

it's possible to enjoy flavor and want a balanced game at the same time

I agree, but my post had nothing to do with balance. There are so few rules in Wanderhome that balance is irrelevant. Maybe I'm just not explaining it well, but being concerned about balance in Wanderhome would be like being concerned about a boat's traction or a car's buoyancy. :shrug:

CountryMatters
Apr 8, 2009

IT KEEPS HAPPENING
Yeah that was a weird criticism for wanderhome, it's perfectly "balanced", in that there's literally nothing to balance and almost zero direction. You could get the same experience by picking up a redwall book, having you and your friends pick a character in it, then freeform roleplaying your day as low-fantasy mice

Not to say I don't like it, I just can't really see where balance would ever come in to the situation when it's a make-things-up-as-you-go game

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003

Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.
Unlockable Ben

CountryMatters posted:

Not to say I don't like it, I just can't really see where balance would ever come in to the situation when it's a make-things-up-as-you-go game

Because without guidelines it's quite possible to make things up that are unbalanced.

Railing Kill
Nov 14, 2008

You are the first crack in the sheer face of god. From you it will spread.

hyphz posted:

Because without guidelines it's quite possible to make things up that are unbalanced.

Personally, that sounds like it's better dealt with socially than by written mechanics (in the case of a rule-light game like Wanderhome). Not everything needs to be litigated by rules. It's hard to abuse rules when there simply aren't any. So if someone still insists on being a ruthless munchkin in this anarchistic, pastoral game of personal conflict and growth, then the group should just tell them to chill the gently caress out or find a different game.

Again, "balance" as a concept in tabletop games is irrelevant to this game that I'm talking about. There's no way to make up something unbalanced in this game that can't be easily dealt with socially.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

Golden Bee posted:

One was solved by throwing a raccoon at people.

:justpost:

Railing Kill posted:

Again, "balance" as a concept in tabletop games is irrelevant to this game that I'm talking about. There's no way to make up something unbalanced in this game that can't be easily dealt with socially.

“Dealt with socially”

I think this is the crux of the matter- a good gaming group that interacts well together will be able to overcome the most unbalanced game. But the most dysfunctional or munchkin table will absolutely require rules to keep the game moving.

Agrikk fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Aug 10, 2022

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003

Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.
Unlockable Ben

Agrikk posted:

“Dealt with socially”

I think this is the crux of the matter- a good gaming group that interacts well together will be able to overcome the most unbalanced game. But the most dysfunctional or munchkin table will absolutely require rules to keep the game moving.

I mean, literally every RPG used to start with some kind of paraphrase of "RPGs have rules so that there aren't arguments between players" which is kind of equivalent to "RPGs have rules so that you don't have to deal with things socially."

Railing Kill
Nov 14, 2008

You are the first crack in the sheer face of god. From you it will spread.
I won't belabor the point any longer except to say that I think you should read Wanderhome. This is absolutely not a balance issue, and give minutes of reading the text will tell you that. The nature of conflict and chance in the game is unlike most other games. It's not perfect, but the kind of game it wants to be absolutely does not need more mechanics for the sake of other games' ideas of balance. I'm realizing that this probably doesn't make a ton of sense without the full context, so that's why folks should read it so they know what I'm rambling about. This is a game which is more of a framework for collaborative storytelling and less of a "game" in the traditional sense.

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Frankie Kono was the nature boy escape artist, who grew up in the jungles of Hawaii somehow. He had a pet raccoon and the ability to manipulate objects and ways that should be impossible, like unplugging a dental drill from across the room. Which is vital if someone’s trying to kill you with one.

Threw a raccoon from an ambulance into an attacking Van to stop someone from activating a chain gun.

Kono was a first time player who ended up drawing the character, it was cute.

neonchameleon
Nov 14, 2012



Agrikk posted:

I’ve been lurking in the pathfinder thread and the D&D 5E thread and am amazed at how far the conversations go into game balance and biases and the power of the DM vs the adherence to the rules and it has me wondering about GM agency and how gaming groups play together.

Over the years I’ve learned to GM by feel, learning how to read the room and giving my players what they want while also keeping obstacles in their path that keep me entertained as I watch my players navigate them. My players pick classes based on cool storylines rather than feat progressions and my current Rolemaster campaign has an archmage a mountebank(mage/thief) and a berserker- picked for interesting flavor rather than party optimization.

My question is- how many of you GMs play games as written and use the rules as designed and who among you uses the game rules as a framework, winging encounters and dynamically sliding difficulty as necessary?

E: I ask because these threads have me scratching my head going, “play what class you want to play and I’ll figure out opportunities for each of you to shine in turn.”

E: E: now I’m reading how the 5E ranger is terrible and no one should play one. My other group is comprised of two rangers and a Druid. Come to flavor country.

I use the rules as intended. I mean it's why I bought them after all - and I'm a very different GM when running e.g. D&D 4e as compared to Apocalypse World - and I believe that this makes me better at both play styles because when they are what I want to do I lean into them and pick rules to support me.

Also when playing D&D I neither want to tailor things to the PCs nor as a player want them tailored to me. I want to approach the challenges presented and use what I have; it's a game with its roots in challenge based play and wargaming. Now Apocalypse World is a whole different story.

bbcisdabomb
Jan 15, 2008

SHEESH

Golden Bee posted:

Frankie Kono was the nature boy escape artist, who grew up in the jungles of Hawaii somehow. He had a pet raccoon and the ability to manipulate objects and ways that should be impossible, like unplugging a dental drill from across the room. Which is vital if someone’s trying to kill you with one.

Threw a raccoon from an ambulance into an attacking Van to stop someone from activating a chain gun.

Kono was a first time player who ended up drawing the character, it was cute.

Please get permission to post the picture, that sounds great.

CzarChasm
Mar 14, 2009

I don't like it when you're watching me eat.

Golden Bee posted:

Frankie Kono was the nature boy escape artist, who grew up in the jungles of Hawaii somehow. He had a pet raccoon and the ability to manipulate objects and ways that should be impossible, like unplugging a dental drill from across the room. Which is vital if someone’s trying to kill you with one.

Threw a raccoon from an ambulance into an attacking Van to stop someone from activating a chain gun.

Kono was a first time player who ended up drawing the character, it was cute.

If that racoon didn't have a name I'd like to nominate George Coony

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.
The players in my 77 game had three favorite parts:
— The anything Goes match between the Jersey Street tough disguised as a Luchador and De la Chancla Junior
— The ambulance versus motorcycles chase through the busy streets of la Ciudad Mexico;
— The retro 70s ads I put on during breaks.

I guess it’s good to be on equal footing with “ring around the collar“.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
This week's Tanicus game in a nutshell.





(the runes and the globe were lit up by red LED lights)

X X X X X

Nuriel - "Warlocks are just magically attuned items for more powerful beings."

Viktor - "Please do not give me an existential crisis in the middle of combat."

X X X X X

DM - "OK, on its turn, the Dreamweaver uses its action to take a red potion from the unconscious Lady Bluthammer's belt and feeds it to her. *rolls for healing* That's his turn. On her turn, Lady Bluthammer gets to her feet..."

Ransom - "Wait. We took out the Big Bad and a minion GAVE her a healing potion? That's not fair!"

Nuriel - "Minions giving healing potions to the villain might be the worst thing you've ever done as a DM."

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

CobiWann posted:

This week's Tanicus game in a nutshell.





(the runes and the globe were lit up by red LED lights)

X X X X X

Nuriel - "Warlocks are just magically attuned items for more powerful beings."

Viktor - "Please do not give me an existential crisis in the middle of combat."

X X X X X

DM - "OK, on its turn, the Dreamweaver uses its action to take a red potion from the unconscious Lady Bluthammer's belt and feeds it to her. *rolls for healing* That's his turn. On her turn, Lady Bluthammer gets to her feet..."

Ransom - "Wait. We took out the Big Bad and a minion GAVE her a healing potion? That's not fair!"

Nuriel - "Minions giving healing potions to the villain might be the worst thing you've ever done as a DM."

Gods, I love your campaign

Ichabod Sexbeast
Dec 5, 2011

Giving 'em the old razzle-dazzle

CobiWann posted:

X X X X X

Nuriel - "Warlocks are just magically attuned items for more powerful beings."

Viktor - "Please do not give me an existential crisis in the middle of combat."

X X X X X

Actually they're more like animal companions.

Your warlock patron is a ranger

I'm sorry you had to find out this way

Golden Bee
Dec 24, 2009

I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Golden Bee posted:

Our Pulp group reached the Canary Islands capital of Tenerife.
Many Tales!
Since then, we were able to climb the mountain, evade the Nazis, flee to Cuba, and solve a murder at sea.
- - -
Running the circus from the monkey cage!
“You’re just like a little sister, Devie. I would know, I have five.”
The campaign continues, with a rotating GM. This week and last, we were joined by Evelyn St. Cloud, insecure Circus Aerialist*. This week was a flashback featuring her and mystic orphan Devika Velyapur, trying to pull some scams at the Hagenbeck–Wallace circus.

And while we prevented an accident, saved the circus and altered history, most notable were three things:

—Evelyn only agreeing to help prevent a train crash because of Devika goading her, targeting her aspect “Anything you can do…”.

—In order to chase the villain, we convinced the circus strongman to bend the frames of two penny farthings together to create an ersatz duo bicycle.

—We discovered the villain of the adventure, Mabel Smith Douglass, was someone we met last week. And since this was a flashback, that limited our options.

Highwire-walker Evie jumped onto the plane. But while she couldn’t open the door, all she could do was force a landing.

And without a suitable escape route, there was no way to convince airport officials that the villain had stolen property. So after some fisticuffs, we swore revenge on someone who died at the end of last session.

*There was a brief cameo by Smuggler ‘Typhoon’ Mike McGinty, but he had to leave after the first hour. He discovered a tiger sleeping on his boat and used his connections to try and sell it to a buyer in Canada.

Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Apr 30, 2024

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever

Golden Bee posted:

*There was a brief cameo by Smuggler ‘Typhoon’ Mike McGinty, but he had to leave after the first hour. He discovered a tiger sleeping on his boat and used his connections to try and sell it to a buyer in Canada.

Interesting in that I just finished reading Arthur Conan Doyle's 'Valley of Fear' and the main antagonist of the second half is John McGinty

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.
Not a gaming experience per se but looking for adventure hooks and some input:

My Rolemaster PCs find themselves in a small town of about three thousand people that lies many miles north of the arctic circle. They intended to do some stuff there and then leave before travel became tricky but in our last session they have decided to stick around through the winter to help the town out with various Big Plot Things.

So now I’m looking at an eight month winter in a small town in which travel will be extremely limited due to mountains and eight foot snow drifts and -20C temperatures. (FWIW the town is based on the Siberian town of Norilsk but only 3k people instead of 117k)

I have a big plot arc that I’ll be running, but I’m looking for ideas on how to fill the days for antsy PCs. I’m looking for little one-off sessions over which the main arc will be advanced and any suggestions for a fantasy campaign with medium magic would’ve helpful.

I’m think like:

Something happens at the local playhouse [a spirit gets summoned accidentally and must be dealt with)

Something is killing the local sled dogs

Bar fights / gambling with local alcoholic siberians

Rescue a lost expedition

Surviving a storm that damaged part of the town

Avalanches/frostbite/noon-day darkness weather stuff

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007

WASP CREW
Local children get overambitious with their snow sculptures and either 1) several people are lost in a labrynthine Ice Maze, or 2) a snowperson (or animal or w/e) is so immaculately crafted that a minor God is inhabiting it and won't leave.

A vampire wanders in trying to capitalize on "eight months without sunlight"

One of those elaborate fancy dog shows but with Sled Dogs.

JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES

:dogout:
of SA-Mart forever
Reading this thread reminds me how narrow my knowledge of P&P RPGs is. I had long years of incredible 2e fun, but my breadth of experience with them is about as wide as a pencil.

Nemo2342
Nov 26, 2007

Have A Day




Nap Ghost

Agrikk posted:

I’m think like:

Something happens at the local playhouse [a spirit gets summoned accidentally and must be dealt with)

Something is killing the local sled dogs

Bar fights / gambling with local alcoholic siberians

Rescue a lost expedition

Surviving a storm that damaged part of the town

Avalanches/frostbite/noon-day darkness weather stuff

The local people have an annual festival to celebrate a famous sled dog

Some kind of local strong person competition that the party is expected to compete in

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Murder mystery

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.
I’m planning a big festival for the last day of sunlight. The town will have a farewell service that includes singing all of the “hey the sun is back!” songs they sing in the spring. They do this for all of the people who will die before the sun appears again.


Also, since the players burned down their own house rather than live in their haunted house, the spirit is loose and will be hopping from random person to random person as they try to murder the PCs (think the demon from the Denzel Washington movie “Fallen”). So they’ll be defending themselves from seemingly random attacks from possessed townsfolk all winter long until they figure it out.

I like the dog sled stuff and the winter park stuff. Spirits inhabiting sculptures? gently caress yes.

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Agrikk posted:

Not a gaming experience per se but looking for adventure hooks and some input:

My Rolemaster PCs find themselves in a small town of about three thousand people that lies many miles north of the arctic circle. They intended to do some stuff there and then leave before travel became tricky but in our last session they have decided to stick around through the winter to help the town out with various Big Plot Things.

So now I’m looking at an eight month winter in a small town in which travel will be extremely limited due to mountains and eight foot snow drifts and -20C temperatures. (FWIW the town is based on the Siberian town of Norilsk but only 3k people instead of 117k)

I have a big plot arc that I’ll be running, but I’m looking for ideas on how to fill the days for antsy PCs. I’m looking for little one-off sessions over which the main arc will be advanced and any suggestions for a fantasy campaign with medium magic would’ve helpful.

I’m think like:

Something happens at the local playhouse [a spirit gets summoned accidentally and must be dealt with)

Something is killing the local sled dogs

Bar fights / gambling with local alcoholic siberians

Rescue a lost expedition

Surviving a storm that damaged part of the town

Avalanches/frostbite/noon-day darkness weather stuff

I'm 100% ripping off an old Dresden Files short story, but something about all/some of the local children being kidnapped in order to be used as a sacrifice to summon something bad, with the possible extra twist that they were supposed to be the sacrifice for some rival power instead.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Local volcano spirit makes trouble, but can be subdued or bargained with to get access to a hot spring.

FreshFeesh
Jun 3, 2007

Drum Solo
A wild animal attacks the town in revenge for a hunter killings its young/pack/brood. Twist: the hunter’s husband/child/parent was slain by the beast, prompting the bloody back and forth.

One household has been accused of stealing precious winter resources from another. Is this a case of greed, envy, survival, misplaced anger?

Ichabod Sexbeast
Dec 5, 2011

Giving 'em the old razzle-dazzle
John Carpenter's The Thing.

Having said that, I'd only throw one high-stakes supernatural mystery doodad at them over the winter, and your Fallen idea is also pretty drat cool.

CzarChasm
Mar 14, 2009

I don't like it when you're watching me eat.

Agrikk posted:

I’m planning a big festival for the last day of sunlight. The town will have a farewell service that includes singing all of the “hey the sun is back!” songs they sing in the spring. They do this for all of the people who will die before the sun appears again.


Also, since the players burned down their own house rather than live in their haunted house, the spirit is loose and will be hopping from random person to random person as they try to murder the PCs (think the demon from the Denzel Washington movie “Fallen”). So they’ll be defending themselves from seemingly random attacks from possessed townsfolk all winter long until they figure it out.

I like the dog sled stuff and the winter park stuff. Spirits inhabiting sculptures? gently caress yes.

Are the players immune to being possessed? If not, maybe just have them do a CON/WIS saving throw. If they succeed, nothing happens. If they fail, maybe they make an attack roll against the next closest player/NPC.

Vox Valentine
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

The plot of Yojimbo but it's two bandit clans fighting over a mining claim they've built a lovely little town on top of and with the Deep Cold coming each knows the other is going to try and make a move as per yearly tradition and both sides are willing to hire the PCs as agents thinking this will be the year they finally wipe out the other and seize the town for themselves.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

Hostile V posted:

The plot of Yojimbo but it's two bandit clans fighting over a mining claim they've built a lovely little town on top of and with the Deep Cold coming each knows the other is going to try and make a move as per yearly tradition and both sides are willing to hire the PCs as agents thinking this will be the year they finally wipe out the other and seize the town for themselves.

This seems familiar. Wasn’t this the premise for a Fistful of Dollars?

Also: these are fantastic ideas. Keep ‘em coming! [Digging the idea of crowdsourcing my campaign. :D]

Vox Valentine
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

Agrikk posted:

This seems familiar. Wasn’t this the premise for a Fistful of Dollars?

Also: these are fantastic ideas. Keep ‘em coming! [Digging the idea of crowdsourcing my campaign. :D]
Fistful of Dollars is actually an unofficial adaptation of Akira Kurosawa's "Yojimbo", it's a whole thing but it's also a really good plot seed to use and it worked for Leone to adapt it to 19th century America and it could also work in middle fantasy Not Siberia.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

Hostile V posted:

Fistful of Dollars is actually an unofficial adaptation of Akira Kurosawa's "Yojimbo", it's a whole thing but it's also a really good plot seed to use and it worked for Leone to adapt it to 19th century America and it could also work in middle fantasy Not Siberia.

Squabbling Merchants/Mining Guild is a great low-intensity conflict that works great as an alternate plot thread for a long winter. This gives me:

- Big Plot Arc (main plot)
- “Fallen” thread (supernatural arc)
- Yojimbo thread (Everyman arc)

as three winter-long activities. Plus peppering in a Winter Park ice statue menagerie, a sled-dog competition, a midwinter festival, a marauding beastie seeking revenge, an earth-elemental causing avalanches for fun, a mid-mountain rescue…

My PCs will be busy this winter!

Ichabod Sexbeast
Dec 5, 2011

Giving 'em the old razzle-dazzle

Agrikk posted:

Squabbling Merchants/Mining Guild is a great low-intensity conflict that works great as an alternate plot thread for a long winter. This gives me:

- Big Plot Arc (main plot)
- “Fallen” thread (supernatural arc)
- Yojimbo thread (Everyman arc)

as three winter-long activities. Plus peppering in a Winter Park ice statue menagerie, a sled-dog competition, a midwinter festival, a marauding beastie seeking revenge, an earth-elemental causing avalanches for fun, a mid-mountain rescue…

My PCs will be busy this winter!

Hell throw in a miner's strike if stuff gets slow

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
"This town ain't big enough for the both of us" between two NPC's.

Captain Walker
Apr 7, 2009

Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there

Ichabod Sexbeast posted:

Hell throw in a miner's strike if stuff gets slow

The local Mining Guild chapter can't take action against the striking miners or it will lose its royal charter, so the unscrupulous guildmaster conspires with a notorious gang of highwaymen from back South. If the striking miners are wiped out, and a group of burly folk with criminal records wander into town, the Guild will have no choice but to offer them full pardons and jobs in the mine.

Of course, that whole plan is predicated on the premise that the striking miners are wiped out by the bandits-turned-strikebreakers, and the PCs don't intervene. Isn't there a Kurosawa movie with the same setup in reverse? Hmm.
:thunk:

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
According to my DM, the official insurance provider of the Korvan Empire is Regressive Insurance, with their half-orc spokesperson Olf.

"YOU WILL BUNDLE LAIR AND HORSE COVERAGE! GOBLINS ARE STANDING BY TWENTY-FIVE HOURS A DAY, FIVE DAYS A WEEK, TO DENY YOUR CLAIM!"

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

CobiWann posted:

According to my DM, the official insurance provider of the Korvan Empire is Regressive Insurance, with their half-orc spokesperson Olf.

"YOU WILL BUNDLE LAIR AND HORSE COVERAGE! GOBLINS ARE STANDING BY TWENTY-FIVE HOURS A DAY, FIVE DAYS A WEEK, TO DENY YOUR CLAIM!"

Do they offer relocation services for phylacteries, in the event that a band of plucky adventurers comes across it and tries to destroy it?

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Ichabod Sexbeast
Dec 5, 2011

Giving 'em the old razzle-dazzle

CobiWann posted:

According to my DM, the official insurance provider of the Korvan Empire is Regressive Insurance, with their half-orc spokesperson Olf.

"YOU WILL BUNDLE LAIR AND HORSE COVERAGE! GOBLINS ARE STANDING BY TWENTY-FIVE HOURS A DAY, FIVE DAYS A WEEK, TO DENY YOUR CLAIM!"

"Two rival groups of adventurers fought in your tavern, smashing it to bits? We'll kill them both* and use their loot** to reimburse*** you****!

Terms and conditions that would make an archdevil crosseyed apply"

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