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Gumball Gumption posted:This disconnect will exist as long as the business of school is job training. I agree with all of the professors who think the point of higher education is to give you a broad education but the business that most higher education is selling to people is "you need this poo poo for a job". I would've been glad to get any functional career training in college for my career in writing and editing, but most of what I got were Authors Who Were All Dead by 1960 at the latest. It varies wildly on which school you end up at.
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Aug 30, 2022 22:29
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https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1564702823262175235 Is there any chance this poo poo doesn't get implemented? It's so frightening to see all the piggish sadism of 2020 get memory holed, while the pro-cop crowd still seethes with rage at the "riots" and the mere idea that an uppity black person would consider themselves worthy of life.
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Aug 30, 2022 22:57
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Dr Christmas posted:https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1564702823262175235 Does the plan actually require using the funds for breaking the police into these different roles and services? Because otherwise this feels like recycling defund the police arguments except to argue we should fund the police. At the least it seems easier to hire psychologists and sociologists than throwing money at police to train them to also be those things.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:01
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FizFashizzle posted:Math is just applied philosophy. They're both "given these axioms, what are the consequences?". Math just starts with axioms like "0 is a natural number" & "Every natural number has a successor". Philosophy starts with axioms like "Freedom is good"
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Aug 30, 2022 23:01
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World Famous W posted:bad, as it lead to man advancing and the rest of nature having to eat poo poo Nature technically does love to eat poo poo, it gives it valuable nitrogen.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:17
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PhazonLink posted:what code word did you use for this. I wasn't the person doing this, I was just observing. I forgot the name of the chat protocol but I doubt it was secure but I also doubt that it mattered in 1978. I did use the Wharton computer with that terminal for a higher level physics assignment where I had to determine the matrix of motion for galactic clusters which is an overdetermined data problem. My solution was to start with a estimate and then perturb the 4x4 matrix values and see what the errors were. Basically walk it to a solution. This solution came to me in a dream, seriously.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:36
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some plague rats posted:Can you give an example of two of what you mean by this? Understanding derivatives can be extremely useful. The idea of a change in the rate of a change (2nd derivative) is important in looking at trends. For example inflation. If prices are still rising but the rate of that rise is decreasing, that is a good thing. Ditto with stock price trends. Some of my fellow Physics grads ended up on Wall Street for that reason.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:39
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VideoGameVet posted:
You've convinced me, we need to make teaching calculus illegal at once
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Aug 30, 2022 23:49
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Gumball Gumption posted:Does the plan actually require using the funds for breaking the police into these different roles and services? Because otherwise this feels like recycling defund the police arguments except to argue we should fund the police. At the least it seems easier to hire psychologists and sociologists than throwing money at police to train them to also be those things. Here's the White House Fact Sheet. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/01/fact-sheet-president-bidens-safer-america-plan-2/ It looks like some of the money goes to hiring new police and training police to not use things like chokeholds, to use de-escalation tactics, to reduce the use of no knock warrants and so on. Other money goes to funding social service departments and things like that so they can be called out on things that aren't really police matters and funding programs to support the homeless, addicts. and mentally ill, removing the crack/cocaine discrepancy, and funding programs to help those who were incarcerated reenter society. It also provides funding to gun control. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 30, 2022 23:55
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Epicurius posted:Here's the White House Fact Sheet. I know exactly what you meant but I'm unreasonably amused by the idea of the police letting a native american guy go but only after smashing his ceremonial pipe and headdress
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Aug 31, 2022 00:03
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Epicurius posted:to use desecration tactics, I don't like the sound of that.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:04
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Gumball Gumption posted:Does the plan actually require using the funds for breaking the police into these different roles and services? Because otherwise this feels like recycling defund the police arguments except to argue we should fund the police. At the least it seems easier to hire psychologists and sociologists than throwing money at police to train them to also be those things. He wants 100,000 more police. I assume it'll be part of this plan. I don't know what if anything needs to go through Congress to make this plan a reality, or if it can get accidentally derailed by Joe Manchin-esque bullshit. Or derailed on purpose by some Dark Manchin-but-for-good-figure. He wants more training to assuage any fears, but of course left to their own devices the police will just have their officers sit through more of this: https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1385274653229285377
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Aug 31, 2022 00:11
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Dr Christmas posted:He wants 100,000 more police. I assume it'll be part of this plan. I don't know what if anything needs to go through Congress to make this plan a reality, or if it can get accidentally derailed by Joe Manchin-esque bullshit. Or derailed on purpose by some Dark Manchin-but-for-good-figure. If Bidens plan is anything other than complete reform of policing in the US than all he'll end up doing is throwing a bunch more money to the existing fascist forces we have right now.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:14
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Charliegrs posted:If Bidens plan is anything other than complete reform of policing in the US than all he'll end up doing is throwing a bunch more money to the existing fascist forces we have right now. I wonder if he feels that he can firm up the reliability of the security forces for '24 this way.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:16
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Charliegrs posted:If Bidens plan is anything other than complete reform of policing in the US than all he'll end up doing is throwing a bunch more money to the existing fascist forces we have right now. This is the plan Democrats have been proposing for police reform, yes.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:21
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Wayne Knight posted:I don't like the sound of that. There are reasons I don't usually post on my phone. Fixing the typos.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:35
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some plague rats posted:You've convinced me, we need to make teaching calculus illegal at once I'm more concerned with the terrorist organization known as Al-Gebra.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:48
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Gadfly posted:So what answer are we telling people who whine that they had to sacrifice to make payments on their student loans for 20 years to get them paid off? I'm reading a lot of resentment from folks that are just bitter they had to forgo a lot of "leisure" kind of activities, single moms raising kids, or buying houses and stuff. Because the "things were hard for me so they should be hard for everybody else" is some selfish boomer poo poo. It's reasoning for never trying to improve anything ever.
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Aug 31, 2022 01:35
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Epicurius posted:Here's the White House Fact Sheet. The bolded all seems quite good and, in fact, well in line with a lot of the Defund The Police planks.
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Aug 31, 2022 01:38
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Dr Christmas posted:He wants 100,000 more police. I assume it'll be part of this plan. I don't know what if anything needs to go through Congress to make this plan a reality, or if it can get accidentally derailed by Joe Manchin-esque bullshit. Or derailed on purpose by some Dark Manchin-but-for-good-figure.
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Aug 31, 2022 01:52
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some plague rats posted:Why does this only apply to the "educated"? You don't think builders are going to start companies and employ other builders? For example, if an asphalt guy decides to start a company doing that he needs people in the office, obviously, but he also needs experienced guys to scope jobs and do quotes, as well as cover remedials, do training and onboarding, supply runs and negotiating, he's going to need paving guys and equipment guys and mechanics and once all those positions are filled he's still going to need a bunch of guys to go out and do the asphalt. Same for a plumbing company, or an electrical company, etc. What gives the "highly educated" the ability to fit the market in ways that people in trades don't? I'm guessing you have no idea how much crossover there is. Personal example, I started in logging, before I moved to climbing and general arb work. When the company shut down me and a couple others stayed in the industry before I went into roading and then moved to the power board, one guy went to do building maintenance on skyscrapers, one went into site management and traffic control and one went into heavy machinery at a mine. Suggesting that training people for a specific trade will limit their career flexibility is completely asinine. i should have been clearer, i left out a key part of explaining what it meant that demand was relatively inelastic take a plumber. i need a plumber for a job. if plumbers are half-price i'm not hiring two plumbers: i need a certain amount of plumbing work done. if i have an excess of plumbers with nothing to do there's not a lot of extra plumbing i can get done. the demand for plumbers is relatively inelastic: the amount of plumbing labor that is demanded doesn't really change much. the distinction between plumbers starting a company and computer touchers starting a company is the computer touchers produce a product that can create new demand. new plumbing companies? probably not affecting how often I need plumbing work done. the distinction between someone being in a trade and someone just being a laborer is, aside from the significant pay difference: specialization. i worked for a general contractor when I was younger, but I wasn't doing anything skilled: i was largely moving things from point A to point B. not specialized; not well paid. not because i was uneducated, but because the work i was doing had no specialization and, thus, any yahoo could do it - even me! to be in a skilled trade such that you are going to trade school and the like, you are specializing. you're becoming an electrician. yes, you're not legally prohibited from doing other jobs - but most non-electrician jobs you're doing you're going to be doing "any old yahoo will do" jobs, because for those jobs you are any old yahoo. the basic idea behind a generalized education is that you are not any old yahoo - you have a base level of useful skills - but have not yet specialized. you have a much greater ability to go where the market demands new educated people. you're still not specialized and won't command as high a salary as you might someday in that industry, but you still have a greater ability to set yourself above "any random person kidnapped off the street". now, after ten years, you're going to be pretty specialized and not really as flexible as you were before, and at that point you start getting pretty into the "well if my industry goes in the shitter i may be screwed" but that's pretty much unavoidable - everyone needs specialized workers, and that's always going to come at a risk to those workers (but they'll get paid better if they keep the job).
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Aug 31, 2022 01:57
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GreyjoyBastard posted:The bolded all seems quite good and, in fact, well in line with a lot of the Defund The Police planks.
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Aug 31, 2022 01:59
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cat botherer posted:A big part of "defund the police" is "defunding the police." The cops are getting more funding, and probably much more than social services will be. This is a lose, because it makes the fascists more powerful and better able to terrorize marginalized groups. Some money being handed out to a bunch of inefficient nonprofits isn't going to change that. Well, I think part of the idea is to train the police better, include more community oversight and improve community-police relationships so they don't "terrorize marginalized groups"...go back to the whole Peelian principles and such.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:42
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Dr Christmas posted:He wants 100,000 more police. I assume it'll be part of this plan. I don't know what if anything needs to go through Congress to make this plan a reality, or if it can get accidentally derailed by Joe Manchin-esque bullshit. Or derailed on purpose by some Dark Manchin-but-for-good-figure. Yeah, it really comes at the problem as if it's a few bad apples and not that the police are an actively fascist political block. They frankly can't be trusted with any money without strict restrictions.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:52
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GreyjoyBastard posted:The bolded all seems quite good and, in fact, well in line with a lot of the Defund The Police planks. That's only true if the outcome is in line with the goals of the defund the police and that is hard to expect because of cat botherer posted:A big part of "defund the police" is "defunding the police." The cops are getting more funding, and probably much more than social services will be. This is a lose, because it makes the fascists more powerful and better able to terrorize marginalized groups. Some money being handed out to a bunch of inefficient nonprofits isn't going to change that. We're really only going know if this is "in line with defund the police" when we see the results but if you asked me at the moment this looks like using defund the police arguments to give cover to funding the police.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:55
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Epicurius posted:Well, I think part of the idea is to train the police better, include more community oversight and improve community-police relationships so they don't "terrorize marginalized groups"...go back to the whole Peelian principles and such.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:55
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The scariest thing about 100,000 new cops is that they saw 2020 and thought, "I want in."
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Aug 31, 2022 03:24
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Dr Christmas posted:The scariest thing about 100,000 new cops is that they saw 2020 and thought, "I want in."  Which police departments have seen an increase in recruitment? From what I've seen/heard in the news, all major cities are having a hard time recruiting anyone at all even though they have the budget for it, including university police departments.
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Aug 31, 2022 03:27
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Kalit posted:
I have a good friend who is a blood spatter analysis investigator and he says getting new cops is hard. People really don’t want to do it, and some of the folks who do aren’t the kind they would want to hire.
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Aug 31, 2022 03:35
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god this blows posted:I have a good friend who is a blood spatter analysis investigator and he says getting new cops is hard. People really don’t want to do it, and some of the folks who do aren’t the kind they would want to hire. Says something considering the standards they have. Too smart?
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Aug 31, 2022 03:48
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Gumball Gumption posted:Yeah, it really comes at the problem as if it's a few bad apples and not that the police are an actively fascist political block. They frankly can't be trusted with any money without strict restrictions. People like Grossman are certainly a big part of the problem with policemen. The whole thing started with a general named SLA Marshall. He did a study of WWII soldiers that got published in 1947, called "Men Against Fire" The study showed that, in combat situations, only about 25% of soldiers actually fired their weapons, and his theory was that the moral taboo against violence in civilian life was so strong that, even when soldiers were in threat of their life, they wouldn't actually fight, and he recommended a bunch of changes in training that were implemented to get soldiers past the taboo against killing. Dave Grossman was a disciple of Marshall and when he got out of the army, he started consulting for police departments, showing them Marshall's study, and saying, "Hey, your police are in danger....if you hire me, I can train your men to get over this natural aversion to killing in self defense, and make your policemen safer. And he was backed up by research, so he got hired. The problem with all this, is that Marshall's study was bad. First, he counted every soldier in the combat zone. So, if you were a chaplain or you were a medic, neither of whom carry weapons, you were counted as not firing a weapon. If you loaded artillery, or even fired artillery, or if you drove a tank, or anything like that, even though you're participating in the battle and firing ordinance at the enemy, since you didn't fire a rifle or a sidearm, what you did didn't count. Once you account for all that, most of the soldiers who are in position to fire at the enemy actually did fire at the enemy. It turns out, especially if you think you're in danger, it's very easy to commit violence. So it turns out what Grossman's seminars did was take a group that's already in a stressful situation and already tempted to use violence, and escalated that, making the police more likely to see people as their enemy, more likely to escalate situations, more likely to use violence. So I think a lot of this growth is due to Grossman and, indirectly, to Marshall's bad study. cat botherer posted:The problems police have cannot be solved by training. Why is "terrorize marginalized groups" in quotes? That's exactly what happens. Have you been paying any attention the last... since this country was founded? I put it in quotes because it was the term you used. And I think a lot of the problems police have can be solved with training, just like I think training caused a lot of the problems that the police have.
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Aug 31, 2022 03:56
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Says something considering the standards they have. Too smart? He’s a “normal” cop in addition to being the lead investigator. It’s just that cops will go where the money is and many times that is now in more private jobs. Recruiting and retention are hard enough in other areas. Police have a deserved bad rap these days and a lot of people don’t want to have that stigma.
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Aug 31, 2022 04:35
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DoJ filing here: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.48.0_1.pdf
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Aug 31, 2022 04:35
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The following amicus request was apparently also filed: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.41.1_1.pdf Reviewing the DOJ filing, nothing too surprising (though some of the language is more informal than I'd expect for DOJ).
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Aug 31, 2022 04:46
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Discendo Vox posted:The following amicus request was apparently also filed: They seem to be a little sick of his poo poo. https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1564817161528692737?s=20&t=7Q51VdVdEAhx84qLrG0R0w (I don't see this photo in either posted PDF fwiw)
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Aug 31, 2022 04:55
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Tayter Swift posted:They seem to be a little sick of his poo poo. Lmao, it's referenced as attachment F (It'll be a separate file)- I'd not gotten that far. edit: I'm a little surprised they argued that last section D in the alternate. edit 2: oh my god is that a collection of framed magazine covers Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 05:00
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Discendo Vox posted:Lmao, it's referenced as attachment F (It'll be a separate file)- I'd not gotten that far. Yes, IIRC Trump had his Playboy cover front and center on his magazine wall that he'd have clearly in frame whenever an evangelical leader came to kiss the ring for the cameras
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Aug 31, 2022 05:57
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He is just so flagrant and dumb. How do you loving turn into a request from a loving archivist to "please give us your classified documents" into a federal criminal prosecution for you and your attorneys? Just hand over the loving documents!
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Aug 31, 2022 06:03
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Heard it on a podcast or something, “Donald Trump will always be remembered as being brought down by a librarian.”
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Aug 31, 2022 07:13
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Discendo Vox posted:Lmao, it's referenced as attachment F (It'll be a separate file)- I'd not gotten that far. He didn't just frame magazine covers he appeared in, he had fake magazine covers made and framed them. https://twitter.com/SKeelerTimes/status/879819816131080193 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/28/time-magazinetrump-fake-covers-golf-clubs
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Aug 31, 2022 07:40
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