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Codependent Poster posted:I do feel like the show is missing the good guy and relatable characters GoT had. How can you not root for Corlys. He's always right and tired of this poo poo as nobody listens to him.
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Aug 31, 2022 13:59
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Darko posted:How can you not root for Corlys. He's always right and tired of this poo poo as nobody listens to him. He's probably the best they got, but he's simply more grounded and direct than the rest of the nobles. Like a somewhat more blue-collar hereditary lord. He doesn't seem to have any clever schemes in the works, and he's not funny. He did just try to get the king to marry his 12-year-old daughter though.
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Aug 31, 2022 14:07
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Crapilicious posted:That's why I want a Robert's Rebellion book/show. It would fill in a lot of blanks. Since time jumps are a thing for this season I’d bet money that this show in season 5 will follow House Targarian all the away up to the king slaying the Targarians being wiped out by Robert’s men.
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Aug 31, 2022 15:45
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I wonder if Viserys knows that he doesn't have to marry Alicent to play Warhammer with her.
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Aug 31, 2022 16:01
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PostNouveau posted:He's probably the best they got, but he's simply more grounded and direct than the rest of the nobles. Like a somewhat more blue-collar hereditary lord. He doesn't seem to have any clever schemes in the works, and he's not funny.
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Aug 31, 2022 16:15
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Crapilicious posted:That's why I want a Robert's Rebellion book/show. It would fill in a lot of blanks. When the Rebellion came, Robert told him to hold Storm's End, their ancestral seat, since it'd look terrible and be a huge morale blow if their own castle fell (which was true; witness how bad losing Winterfell was to the Stark cause). So he did. And when the Tyrells arrived to take the castle, he settled in for a long siege, and... that's it. He was besieged. He resisted heroically (anyone not as psychotically stubborn would have surrendered), he obeyed his brother's orders, he aided the rebellion tremendously by keeping the crowned stag flying above Storm's End, but... that's a negative contribution. He didn't aid in any obvious way, what he did was not deal the cause a tremendous blow. Just as important, but not the sort of thing that wins glory. Stannis spends literally the entire rebellion besieged in Storm's End. The siege ends when, after Rhaegar's death and the sack of King's Landing, Ned Stark comes up, tells the Tyrells "hey, all the Targaryens are dead", and they surrender peacefully. No battle is ever joined at all. No glory for Stannis. After the war, Robert tells him "hey, good job, go hold Dragonstone for me, okay?" Which is a seat of high honor -- it was the traditional holding of the heir to the throne under the Targaryens -- but it's not Storm's End. The ancestral seat of House Baratheon, which now belongs to Stannis by right. Which he and his loved ones drat near starved to death holding for Robert. Renly gets that one. So he's got some loving grudges.
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Aug 31, 2022 16:23
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CapnAndy posted:So he's got some loving grudges. Stannis also sails around the broken arm then helps defeat the Iron Fleet + land troops on the island during the iron islands rebellion.
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Aug 31, 2022 17:10
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mightygerm posted:I think what this show is lacking is comedy. The audience began to love some of these characters - Tyrion, Bronn, even Robert - due to the comedic scenes and funny situations they were occasionally put in. Now we have all drama and no vehicle to bring levity into the plot. We got a fart. What more do you want?
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Aug 31, 2022 21:02
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CODChimera posted:was that a throwaway line or what exactly? It was the tourney scene that resulted in an all-out bloodbath. I counted 6 high-borns getting murdered in various ways, counteracting the argument that this show is less wantonly violent than GoT. Stark and Lannister were the only insignia I noticed, but I'm sure the others were also from noble houses. The Lannisters went on an all-out war footing when Tyrion, who they loving despise, got kidnapped. Imagine a Lannister failson getting bludgeoned to death with a mace in a tourney. Tournament deaths aren't uncommon in Westeros, but they're usually accidental or disguised as accidents like with Jon Arryn's squire. A bunch of nobles just wailing on each other with last man standing rules and no political consequences is insane.
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Aug 31, 2022 21:14
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Just tell yourself "he was like the fourth son" and move on
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Aug 31, 2022 21:18
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PostNouveau posted:He's probably the best they got, but he's simply more grounded and direct than the rest of the nobles. Like a somewhat more blue-collar hereditary lord. He doesn't seem to have any clever schemes in the works, and he's not funny. It's been a long time since I read the book but the king married Aemma when she was like 10 or 11 and got her knocked up when she was 12,, which probably explains why she had so many issues with childbirth. I really dislike the whole concept in GRRM's world that girls are wife material as soon as they hit puberty. It doesn't track with what we know of medieval society. Betrothals and arranged marriage was common amongst nobility, but nobody was loving and making babies until both parties were in their 20s.
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Aug 31, 2022 21:34
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:A bunch of nobles just wailing on each other with last man standing rules and no political consequences is insane. Agreed - I think it was a scene-specific choice to conflate the violence of the tourney with the violence of the birthing room. I think the writer/director chose to sacrifice narrative consistency for a fairly heavy handed thematic comparison. It was the payoff for the queen's speech to the princess about a woman's role in their society. If anything, I think the choice to make the tourney a bloodbath was a misfire because it overstated the level of violence usually experienced by men in the setting. Women presumably die fairly often in childbirth in Westeros, whereas men rarely die in battle. The show could have leaned into that and showed how fake and absurd the level of "violence" of the big boy dress up games is, and that could have made a pretty strong statement about how the violence women face is much more real and prevalent.
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Aug 31, 2022 21:38
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:It's been a long time since I read the book but the king married Aemma when she was like 10 or 11 and got her knocked up when she was 12,, which probably explains why she had so many issues with childbirth. That's super interesting. I'll admit I let GRRM's medieval pastiche lead me to think this was how poo poo went down back then.
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Aug 31, 2022 21:44
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Anita Dickinme posted:Since time jumps are a thing for this season I’d bet money that this show in season 5 will follow House Targarian all the away up to the king slaying the Targarians being wiped out by Robert’s men. They're already working on a Hedge Knight show, and that's 100 years before Robert's Rebellion. So probably not.
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Aug 31, 2022 21:53
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PostNouveau posted:That's super interesting. I'll admit I let GRRM's medieval pastiche lead me to think this was how poo poo went down back then. Have you read a little chapter called "Mercy" by chance?
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Aug 31, 2022 22:12
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Jaxyon posted:They're already working on a Hedge Knight show, and that's 100 years before Robert's Rebellion. I wouldn't be surprised if the planned shows change a bunch of times. If this continues to be successful they might just hedge their bets and roll some of their other planned shows into it.
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Aug 31, 2022 22:13
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PostNouveau posted:That's super interesting. I'll admit I let GRRM's medieval pastiche lead me to think this was how poo poo went down back then. On the other hand, Margaret Beaufort (Henry VII's mother) had him when she was 13, and Catherine of Aragon (Henry VIII's first wife) was 15 when she came over to England. GRRM has been open about the Wars of the Roses (Margaret's era, and in living memory for Catherine) being a strong inspiration, too.
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Aug 31, 2022 22:19
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stev posted:I wouldn't be surprised if the planned shows change a bunch of times. If this continues to be successful they might just hedge their bets and roll some of their other planned shows into it. Theyre already hedging their knights
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Aug 31, 2022 22:26
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Mirotic posted:On the other hand, Margaret Beaufort (Henry VII's mother) had him when she was 13, and Catherine of Aragon (Henry VIII's first wife) was 15 when she came over to England. GRRM has been open about the Wars of the Roses (Margaret's era, and in living memory for Catherine) being a strong inspiration, too. Whoa, pedo island did pedo poo poo back then? Crazy
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Aug 31, 2022 22:39
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apparently miguel sapochnik won't be back as co-showrunner next season. so ryan condal will be the showrunner.
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Aug 31, 2022 22:43
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stev posted:I wouldn't be surprised if the planned shows change a bunch of times. If this continues to be successful they might just hedge their bets and roll some of their other planned shows into it. The idea that the success of this show might cause them to greenlight less projects sure is a take.
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Aug 31, 2022 22:50
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PostNouveau posted:Whoa, pedo island did pedo poo poo back then? Crazy Overwhelmingly, not just the Paedoph Isles, european nobles did the pedo incest poo poo and commoners had more relatable relationships. GRRM's big flaw is portraying everything and everyone as infinite rape and murder machines. Yes it happened, but it wasn't 24/7. Lots of people were, yknow, people, just as horrified as us modern folks would be by the endless atrocities in Westeros.
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Aug 31, 2022 23:01
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Mirotic posted:On the other hand, Margaret Beaufort (Henry VII's mother) had him when she was 13, and Catherine of Aragon (Henry VIII's first wife) was 15 when she came over to England. GRRM has been open about the Wars of the Roses (Margaret's era, and in living memory for Catherine) being a strong inspiration, too. Age of first marriage depended on place and class. Dowries increased drastically with a woman's age: there was incentive on the part of upper class parents to marry off daughters young. For the male's family, there was incentive that the marriage was consummated as soon as possible: only then would they control the dowry. This does not mean that every marriage was consummated at 14 (Margaret Beaufort's confessor spoke of his horror at her pregnancy at such a young age i.e. it freaked contemporaries out), but it did happen and there were material reasons for the practice. For lower and middle classes in most places in Europe, the demographics of marriage on average wouldn't be considered unusual by today's standards, particularly in parts of Germany, Italy and England.
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Aug 31, 2022 23:42
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Yudo posted:Age of first marriage depended on place and class. Dowries increased drastically with a woman's age: there was incentive on the part of upper class parents to marry off daughters young. For the male's family, there was incentive that the marriage was consummated as soon as possible: only then would they control the dowry. This does not mean that every marriage was consummated at 14 (Margaret Beaufort's confessor spoke of his horror at her pregnancy at such a young age i.e. it freaked contemporaries out), but it did happen and there were material reasons for the practice. For lower and middle classes in most places in Europe, the demographics of marriage on average wouldn't be considered unusual by today's standards, particularly in parts of Germany, Italy and England. Certainly, and I defer to your knowledge on particularly the middle and lower classes; I merely wanted to point out that there were examples of highborn women, in particular, who were married off quite young from the era GRRM has directly cited as inspo + the immediately following one in England.
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Sep 1, 2022 01:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Overwhelmingly, not just the Paedoph Isles, european nobles did the pedo incest poo poo and commoners had more relatable relationships. GRRM's big flaw is portraying everything and everyone as infinite rape and murder machines. Yes it happened, but it wasn't 24/7. Lots of people were, yknow, people, just as horrified as us modern folks would be by the endless atrocities in Westeros. Worth noting that even the average citizens of Westeros think the Targaryen are gross and this is covered in Fire & Blood. They eventually put up with Targaryen incest but it's a big problem.
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Sep 1, 2022 01:26
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:It's been a long time since I read the book but the king married Aemma when she was like 10 or 11 and got her knocked up when she was 12,, which probably explains why she had so many issues with childbirth. Margaret Beaufort might take issue with that assertion. She was something like 13 when Henry VII was born. It was more common in the medieval era for noble and royal births to happen when the mothers were teenagers whereas commoners tended to marry and have kids in their 20s. Being as young as Margaret Beaufort was uncommon though.
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Sep 1, 2022 02:27
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the crabfeeder is so incredibly not interesting/memorable looking he just looks like a bad guy in Ghosts of Mars or something lol
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Sep 1, 2022 02:37
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it was a weird way to end the episode, basically a dark souls boss intro cutscene tacked on.
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Sep 1, 2022 02:42
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Do crabs actually eat people alive? I'm just imagining some comical pinching and the crab scuttling away.
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Sep 1, 2022 03:06
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:It was the tourney scene that resulted in an all-out bloodbath. I counted 6 high-borns getting murdered in various ways, counteracting the argument that this show is less wantonly violent than GoT. Stark and Lannister were the only insignia I noticed, but I'm sure the others were also from noble houses. Did anyone really care when Rob’s guy killed those two captive wiener kids in season two, other than Rob?
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Sep 1, 2022 03:37
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crab'll suck your dick if its hungry enough man
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Sep 1, 2022 03:37
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 you may not like it but this is what peak targaryen looks like
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Sep 1, 2022 04:04
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Apparently one of the show-runners is going to step down for season 2 and is going to be replaced by one of the GoT lesser names, it just sounds like the show-runner is leaving to pursue other projects and there isn't any bad blood between them or anything of that sort. Alan Taylor is the name of the person semi-replacing them in season 2.
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Sep 1, 2022 04:06
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:It was the tourney scene that resulted in an all-out bloodbath. I counted 6 high-borns getting murdered in various ways, counteracting the argument that this show is less wantonly violent than GoT. Stark and Lannister were the only insignia I noticed, but I'm sure the others were also from noble houses. The kidnapping was a problem because it was viewed as a threat and an insult, and made them look weak. Tywin would be ecstatic if Tyrion got killed in a tournament.
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Sep 1, 2022 04:33
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Re: How realistic the tournament deaths were, the English king Henry VIII and the Holy Roman Emperor Maximillian I both verifiably fought in tournament melees/jousted, and both reportedly had pretty narrow brushes with death during their bouts (Maximillian was almost crushed by his horse, death was definitely on the table). French king Henri II died in a jousting match in 1559, taking a splinter from a lance in the eye. 6 high lords or their heirs dying in one day would be a bit much, but 6+ fatalities including a few second sons and minor nobles seems fine.
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Sep 1, 2022 04:49
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Rewatched the tourney melee so I can pick out the house lords fighting and lol of course its a Stark that gets the most brutal death of getting his face deleted
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Sep 1, 2022 05:05
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Re: How realistic the tournament deaths were, the English king Henry VIII and the Holy Roman Emperor Maximillian I both verifiably fought in tournament melees/jousted, and both reportedly had pretty narrow brushes with death during their bouts (Maximillian was almost crushed by his horse, death was definitely on the table). French king Henri II died in a jousting match in 1559, taking a splinter from a lance in the eye. 6 high lords or their heirs dying in one day would be a bit much, but 6+ fatalities including a few second sons and minor nobles seems fine. the thing that seemed out of the ordinary to me was that dudes were getting their heads busted in by maces. they seemed like they were all actually trying to kill each other rather than someone falling off a horse, getting crushed by a horse, or getting impaled by a piece of a broken lance. those are incidental deaths rather than a guy getting his head demolished by a mace. it is hard to imagine a lord letting go that some other lord's son bashed his sons heads to bits during the king's melee
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Sep 1, 2022 05:20
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Knights liked money. Kicking rear end at a tournament and rasoming back the defeated's armor was big buisness. Kicking rear end on a battlefield and rasoming prisoners was how the bills got paid. Dead people generally aren't interested in buying back their armor and horse, nor are families going to pay a premium for a corpse. People did get hosed up in the mêlée, but that wasn't the goal (and by the time tilts were in use--as it was in the episode's tournament--only blunted swords and lances were allowed, no maces or clubs). GoT is a fantasy magic show about dragons, but dumb is dumb.
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Sep 1, 2022 05:45
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nopants posted:the thing that seemed out of the ordinary to me was that dudes were getting their heads busted in by maces. they seemed like they were all actually trying to kill each other rather than someone falling off a horse, getting crushed by a horse, or getting impaled by a piece of a broken lance. those are incidental deaths rather than a guy getting his head demolished by a mace. it is hard to imagine a lord letting go that some other lord's son bashed his sons heads to bits during the king's melee I thought that was explained in the incidental dialogue with Rhaenys' dismissal of the knights as tourney knights, saying they were taking things too far because none of them had ever seen "real" combat (and thus were presumably less averse to spilling blood wantonly). Also as a way to show the reign of the Targaeryans as a more "brutal" era, befitting a conquest dynasty that ruled through force.
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Sep 1, 2022 05:57
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:French king Henri II died in a jousting match in 1559, taking a splinter from a lance in the eye. The most unrealistic part of that episode was Doctor Who in jousting armor that didn't cover his face. Literally nobody would joust without a face covering.
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Sep 1, 2022 05:59
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