JLaw posted:

haveblue posted:

Which in turn as I understand it is due to the Doom engine being much more amenable to source ports expanding its limits vastly beyond what the 1993 engine was capable of, while Build is kind of a mess and nowhere near as flexible or easy to work with

Todd Replogle posted:

I don't think I did such a great job coding [Duke 3D]. I was (and still am) a weak programmer. I wasn't familiar with trigonometry or how to make C code portable. I slapped script together in a nervous way without any thought to readability. I didn't use a debugger either. The most impressive thing was that it was a game of a 1000 hacks and all somehow worked.

Baron von Eevl posted:

I never did doom level editing, but I remember the build level editor for duke3d making a big deal about being able to easilyswap yo something close to a character view instead if having to stop and load the game to see what things actually looked like.

ExcessBLarg! posted:

There's a website (that I can no longer recall) that describes how Duke 3D development "worked", and honestly I can't claim that it's accurate. But allegedly the Build engine was one large C source file, the game logic was another large C source file, and state was communicated between the two through a handful of global variables. Ken would make updates to the Build engine as necessary and provide an object file of the engine for 3D Realms to link against.

Assuming that's all true, that's about the most non-portable idosyncratic least-flexible way to develop a game. I want to believe it too, because Ken strikes me as something of (at the time) a young math prodigy but ultimately not very good (and certainly lacking experience) as a software engineer, and, well, Todd openly acknowledges his inexperience. But if this is all true then I'm not sure how exactly contemporary ports of Duke 3D materialized.

In contrast, DOOM's development was consciously done in a portable fashion. It's unclear to me if there was actually a 68k-based port of DOOM running on NeXT workstations throughout its development or if that's something Dave Taylor sorted out later, but certainly their tooling all ran on NeXT and there was a conscious decision to abstract the platform-specific bits.

Heavy Metal posted:

Y'know it's funny, DukeZone even has a few good maps on it. dukeprox is a good one.

https://dnr.duke4.net/maps/Proxyon_Military_Base.html

ExcessBLarg! posted:

It's unclear to me if there was actually a 68k-based port of DOOM running on NeXT workstations throughout its development or if that's something Dave Taylor sorted out later, but certainly their tooling all ran on NeXT and there was a conscious decision to abstract the platform-specific bits.

verbal enema posted:

There is that one insane Duke3D TC I can't remember the name of right now it's loving bonkers

david_a posted:

There was. They never implemented sound for it and I’m not sure if networking was added, but those were both things that happened at the very end.

(Pic curtsey of the Doom wiki)

In Training posted:

and b) they don't distinguish between doom 1 or doom 2...you just get to play everything if you own either.

The Kins posted:

This is actually a fairly recent change! Before that, a couple of the mods in the Bethesda-approved list were game specific, like Double Action.

Arivia posted:

I think you still have to buy doom 1 and doom 2 separately for the original maps right? like they're not "one purchase gets you e1-e4 of ultimate doom and all of the doom 2 maps"

Arivia posted:

I think you still have to buy doom 1 and doom 2 separately for the original maps right? like they're not "one purchase gets you e1-e4 of ultimate doom and all of the doom 2 maps"

Hank Morgan posted:

Not the website you are looking for but it seems like a good time to revisit george.txt
https://tcrf.net/Proto:Blood/Alpha_Demo#GEORGE.TXT

The Kins posted:

Everything about BUILD, it's games, source ports and mods belong in a Coding Horrors thread. At some point I'll sit down and collate all the stories I've heard, there's some real howlers.

ExcessBLarg! posted:

There's a website (that I can no longer recall) that describes how Duke 3D development "worked", and honestly I can't claim that it's accurate. But allegedly the Build engine was one large C source file, the game logic was another large C source file, and state was communicated between the two through a handful of global variables. Ken would make updates to the Build engine as necessary and provide an object file of the engine for 3D Realms to link against.

quote:

Opening those files reveals something hostile to the eyes and the mind.

Two Owls posted:

Might be this. There's some deep-dives of other engines too.

90s Cringe Rock posted:

how much postal does it have

quote:

Other developers and partners at this year’s Realms Deep include Fulqrum, New Blood, Team 17, Nvidia, HYPERSTRANGE, Dread XP, Nightdive Studios, Retrovibe, Bounding Box Software, Rogue Games, Running With Scissors, Top Hat Studios, Hellforge Studios, In The Keep, Evil Guinea Pig, Schmidt Workshops, Warcry Interactive, Tastyspleen, Reload Magazine, NoLight Games, and more to be announced!

Malcolm Excellent posted:

Everyone at realms deep is working together to finish that leaked Duke build, but all in their own unique way. Like that RoboCop remake

ToxicFrog posted:

Holy poo poo that sure backs up the statement that Ken was just sending a single monolithic object file and maybe the names and signatures of a few functions and global variables, no source code or modularity or anything, and in order to do anything with the engine non-Ken developers had to use a disassembler and reverse engineer his code that way

this belongs in the coding horrors thread

Arivia posted:

is disdain gonna be valheim with guns, because that's what that logo is telling me

The Kins posted:

It started like as I Made A Quake Clone In 10 Days. It now has slightly more development time and polish put into it, along with a bunch of cool new engine features for GZDoom nerds to do things with.

anilEhilated posted:

Hyperstrange is there too, so that's likely to be about Postal: Brain Damage.