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Ibram Gaunt posted:Well you don't really need to learn different strats in WoW when everyone is using DBM or BigWigs or whatever. thats very true! i completely forgot about raiding addons lmao.
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Sep 1, 2022 14:10
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Macaluso posted:It'll let you pick one to release to replace them (or you can just release the animal you tried to catch) Unless you activated the automatic care for that animal, or the animal has a drop you haven't picked up yet. In those cases, it will not let you release them e: and that macro is perfectly understandable? It will not help you if you don't actually know the fight, but once you know the mechanics, it is enough to let everyone know what to do. Tamba fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 14:18
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Zeruel posted:
This just maps our how to do every single mechanic in the fight provided you've seen them before and know what they are. Such macros are usually found in farm parties where that part is assumed.
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Sep 1, 2022 14:20
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Zeruel posted:Also call me a dummy but do XIV players tend over-complicate things? I did a little smidge of mythic raiding in WoW, but I feel like I never had to pore arcane strategies like 'mario kart' or whatever this thing means: Raiders definitely overcomplicate things. But they also try to optimize away any and all variation and ambiguity in strategies because pf full of brain dead players incapable of things like 'flexibility'. The new ex isn't hard per se, but it is quick and doesn't let up. That macro makes it look way harder than it really is.
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Sep 1, 2022 14:35
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SettingSun posted:Raiders definitely overcomplicate things. But they also try to optimize away any and all variation and ambiguity in strategies because pf full of brain dead players incapable of things like 'flexibility'. yeah I've definitely been getting the hang of it by just doing it.
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Sep 1, 2022 14:36
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SettingSun posted:Raiders definitely overcomplicate things. But they also try to optimize away any and all variation and ambiguity in strategies because pf full of brain dead players incapable of things like 'flexibility'. On the other hand, a guy in a P5S pf I was in said none of the parties he'd run with to this point had assigned positions for the four puddles after Devour. What the gently caress, people try to yolo that poo poo?
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Sep 1, 2022 14:51
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SettingSun posted:Raiders definitely overcomplicate things. But they also try to optimize away any and all variation and ambiguity in strategies because pf full of brain dead players incapable of things like 'flexibility'. considering ambiguity can and will lead to wipes, a quick macro (or doing a dance around a square on primal i guess) beats having a long discussion over which particular strat we're using today when you just wanna do some good old-fashioned farming, only to have someone tune out and then go "oh we did it differently in my last party". the macro itself is pretty concise in all the relevant information it conveys, and once you know the template of how they're structured you can pretty instantly recognise strat macros for past and future fights
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Sep 1, 2022 14:53
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You aren't supposed to be able to work out how to do a fight you don't already know from the macros people post. The purpose is, if there are multiple ways of doing something, to tell you which way everyone's going to use. For example, the "Spread" section in the topleft of the macro. There's a mechanic (the macro doesn't tell you which) will require you all to spread out to not eat poo poo. There's not really enough time once the spread markers appear for you to sort yourselves out, so it's arranged in advance. So long as everyone runs in a different direction it's fine, and that macro tells each player what direction to go. When you see people say things like "r1" or "h2" in chat at the start of a fight, that's them claiming the player labels used in that part of the macro.
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Sep 1, 2022 14:56
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i've suffered enough wipes in p3s pf that frankly, we need more macros to pre-assign spreads
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Sep 1, 2022 15:00
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Part of me says I'm never going to do content beyond Hard and maybe the occasional Extreme. Another part of me wants the Genji armor.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:24
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Yeah, honestly I wish macros like that were more common in NA instead of inscrutable PF recruitment descriptions that you're somehow just supposed to intuit from the universal lifestream what poo poo like this means: Fundamentally it's likely very similar information but the macro that was posted actually explains what the gently caress they mean.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:24
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I haven't played in some time, but I always hoped that macros would one day make their way to the NA playerbase. Every other region uses them and they're way more efficient at solidifying the plan than any other method. When someone throws down waymarks and players stand around them, it takes forever, and there's always one person that just doesn't move because of condescension or being straight up afk. Plus, when someone inevitably forgets where they were going to be, you can't just scroll up the chat window and check, which is easy enough to do mid-fight before the time comes, even. Helps to make it clear where the error was, too. I plan to make a concerted effort to use strategy macros whenever I'm running a pug from now on so they hopefully catch on and aren't seen as indecipherable, weird or intimidating to others. Great way for mentors to quickly explain notorious encounters they might roulette into, too! Genji Armor? From Deltascape (Savage)? Should be easy enough to get if you just want to unsync the tier. There's probably only a handful of mechanics that could wipe your party in those raids at 90, and even then you could look em up if you don't wanna figure em out. Can't say I recommend using a video guide for that though as they're probably gonna be way out of date, just look up a text one that explains what the abilities actually do so you kinda know where to stand. Probably the best thing you can do to succeed easily while unsyncing is learning how to do your opening dps rotation so that the boss dies at lickety-speed. Jabbering Idiot fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 15:25
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Zeruel posted:I had a goobbue take 27 lures. 17 on the first attempt, which it de-spawned as i had to go make more. This succinctly and accurately describes every player’s position during every mechanic where positioning matters. Most of those mechanics will kill 1 or more players if even one party member is in the wrong spot, or people need to adjust on the fly. While the fight it easy enough that you can probably power through a dozen deaths depending on when they occur, it’s super annoying to deal with people that can’t spread out on their own. It’s better to kill any ambiguity and preassign positions, and make clear on what’s happening when multiple strategies or position presets exist.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:27
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Ledgem posted:Wait don't they despawn on any failed capture with an exclamation mark? There was only very limited time to catch it due to the grass bug.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:28
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Kyrosiris posted:Yeah, honestly I wish macros like that were more common in NA instead of inscrutable PF recruitment descriptions that you're somehow just supposed to intuit from the universal lifestream what poo poo like this means: It is in fact very similar information and it not being explained is kind of the point. If you don't understand something you probably haven't seen it. Like, anyone who's seen Playstation phase knows exactly what it is because it is impossible to mistake it for something else. It's a way to make sure people who don't know what's going on don't join. The marker dance has a similar job in exposing people who are either A) noncooperative or prone to zonking out (so they can be kicked before pulling and wasting people's time), and B) checking people know how to actually position for mechanics. Worst case scenario, you can and should send the party lead a tell if some particular acronym doesn't make sense to you but you know what phase it is referring to.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:31
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Kyrosiris posted:Yeah, honestly I wish macros like that were more common in NA instead of inscrutable PF recruitment descriptions that you're somehow just supposed to intuit from the universal lifestream what poo poo like this means: I appreciate the concept of "playstation colors," that's a neat way to have a common reference point, especially given that many will have it right in front of them. Unless they're on PS5 I guess. Never noticed that change until now. Do wonder if anyone tries to insist on XBOX colors
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Sep 1, 2022 15:31
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Thundarr posted:On the other hand, a guy in a P5S pf I was in said none of the parties he'd run with to this point had assigned positions for the four puddles after Devour. What the gently caress, people try to yolo that poo poo? My experience in two days of PFing P5S is that if people want to yolo puddles and spreads they probably have not actually made it past devour. Actually no one has made it past devour. The real braindead strat is accepting the cosmic horror that we are continually being devoured like Prometheus on the rock.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:31
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Dareon posted:Part of me says I'm never going to do content beyond Hard and maybe the occasional Extreme. good news friend, the stormblood raids are now two expansions old, so if all you want is glams you can probably just unsync the raids with two, maybe three max level friends
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Sep 1, 2022 15:32
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unless it's savage sigma (balls) 4.0! that poo poo kicked our asses hard. got the funny little plane mount though!
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Sep 1, 2022 15:39
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a cartoon duck posted:good news friend, the stormblood raids are now two expansions old, so if all you want is glams you can probably just unsync the raids with two, maybe three max level friends Me, waiting with bated breath for e12s to be farmably unsyncable for that mount
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Sep 1, 2022 15:40
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Transient People posted:It is in fact very similar information and it not being explained is kind of the point. If you don't understand something you probably haven't seen it. Like, anyone who's seen Playstation phase knows exactly what it is because it is impossible to mistake it for something else. It's a way to make sure people who don't know what's going on don't join. The marker dance has a similar job in exposing people who are either A) noncooperative or prone to zonking out (so they can be kicked before pulling and wasting people's time), and B) checking people know how to actually position for mechanics. Worst case scenario, you can and should send the party lead a tell if some particular acronym doesn't make sense to you but you know what phase it is referring to. So... for those of us who don't know what 'Playstation phase' is, can you explain it? I'm not doing Savage, but I do like seeing occasionally weird but fitting ways to explain mechanics.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:43
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Me, waiting with bated breath for e12s to be farmably unsyncable for that mount It is you just need a full party that knows how to do Titan Bombs and Basic Relativity. Those were the two main chokepoints back in 6.1 farm parties. Given how much damage a fully BiS party could put out last patch, I imagine you'll be able to skip Titan Bombs pretty soon (haven't checked yet) and the only thing you'll need to worry about is Basic.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:44
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Cleretic posted:So... for those of us who don't know what 'Playstation phase' is, can you explain it? I'm not doing Savage, but I do like seeing occasionally weird but fitting ways to explain mechanics. The eight members of the party get paired up with one of the four Playstation face button symbols (no really), and the four pairs have to each move to the marker that is as close to their Playstation color as possible because they're about to be tethered together.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:45
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Cleretic posted:So... for those of us who don't know what 'Playstation phase' is, can you explain it? I'm not doing Savage, but I do like seeing occasionally weird but fitting ways to explain mechanics. players get literal playstation face button icons over their heads to denote tether pairs, basically. this is from dragonsong ultimate but it's the same icons: 
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Sep 1, 2022 15:45
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a cartoon duck posted:players get literal playstation face button icons over their heads to denote tether pairs, basically. Holy poo poo, it's even the same colors.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:53
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I love doing extremes, but my least favorite part of them is learning the strategies that pf uses, and interpreting the pf description like a historian reading hieroglyphics. My capability of understanding seems directly tied to how many raid tiers I’ve done while they were current. The stacks are called enumerations, but I would refer to them as air bumps a la e6s. And I wouldn’t have known beforehand what Mario Kart would have referred to.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:58
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Mario Kart is a dumb strategy name, but it made (a little) more sense when it was originally used 8 years ago. In Second Coils of Bahamut, Turn 4, there's a mechanic where meteors get dropped on random people. You need to spread them around the outside of the arena. A standard practice at the time was to all stack in a position, and run clockwise. Sparks from the meteors falling were akin to sparks coming out of the group, like sparks from doing a long powerslide in Mario Kart. Now it's an easy shortform for a mechanic described as "stack as a group and rotate around the arena." There are plenty of mechanics that are callbacks to their first notable appearance: Chariot / Dynamo are PBAoEs and Donut AoEs respectively, and from the same fight. Hot Wing / Hot Tail are from Nidhogg, where he'd either do a line AoE through himself and the arena, or along the sides of the arena leaving the middle open. Relevant for this tier. Proteans are just conal aoes targeted at all party members, relevant for the extreme. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 16:02
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I last did Coils about six years ago so the true meaning of "Mario Kart" was completely lost on me, thanks
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Sep 1, 2022 16:06
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Sparks from the meteors falling were akin to sparks coming out of the group, like sparks from doing a long powerslide in Mario Kart. that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard lmao
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Sep 1, 2022 16:09
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There's a strat called Elmo because the creator put a picture of Sesame Street's Elmo into the diagram for some reason. There's always something dumber.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:11
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my group started serious raiding with seat of sacrifice extreme, so every mechanic where we have to stack together to bait aoes in one spot just gets called confiteor
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Sep 1, 2022 16:15
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P6S had a fuckton of tankbusters and bleeds BUT HOW DOES P7S HAVE EVEN MORE
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Sep 1, 2022 16:19
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Zomborgon posted:I appreciate the concept of "playstation colors," that's a neat way to have a common reference point, especially given that many will have it right in front of them. Unless they're on PS5 I guess. Never noticed that change until now. Yeah, maybe EX4 is a bad example, but I still feel like macros are way more clear than the average PF advert text.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:20
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Cleretic posted:Holy poo poo, it's even the same colors.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:31
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Transient People posted:It is in fact very similar information and it not being explained is kind of the point. If you don't understand something you probably haven't seen it. Like, anyone who's seen Playstation phase knows exactly what it is because it is impossible to mistake it for something else. It's a way to make sure people who don't know what's going on don't join. The marker dance has a similar job in exposing people who are either A) noncooperative or prone to zonking out (so they can be kicked before pulling and wasting people's time), and B) checking people know how to actually position for mechanics. Worst case scenario, you can and should send the party lead a tell if some particular acronym doesn't make sense to you but you know what phase it is referring to. I've seen this mentality among PUG raiders frequently on NA XIV. I find it unfortunate and exclusionary for a few reasons, at least as it compares to using macros. People that don't know what the strategy is by its name forces them to google it, something that some players are immediately at a disadvantage to do. Supposing they ask the party lead, they may be disallowed from joining, get kicked, told to just google it, or discover that no one can explain the mechanic and they only know the strategy name. If you're relying on everyone simply copying what they see in a video, and it doesn't go right, macros and players listing their positions in chat can help point out mistakes. They can even easily be re-played mid combat as a raid shot-caller which might help players learning an encounter. Parties that aren't farm parties should expect wipes to happen, and being able to communicate about the mechanic will help. "Playstation" might be easy to decipher, but "Gigabrain," "Dwayne" or "Xeno" doesn't help you communicate about the mechanic at all, either you know the strategy by the name or not. If you don't know a strategy, a macro explains it way more concisely and you can adapt to a different macro if you actually understand the mechanic and not just a single approach to it. I mean, I was able to do this poo poo in Japanese. No, I don't speak or read Japanese. Non-cooperative players are hardly removed removed at the 'marker dance' until after wipes, because people just assume that they were aware of where they'd stand by process of elimination, or players just entirely forget where they planned on standing, or they get bored and pull. Some players don't want to look up a guide of the fight before trying the fight. They're playing the game to play the game. It's fine to make your PF exclusionary, and that's often what people are trying to do, but I don't think it's a good thing to do in general, especially if you like challenging content. In the long run, the harder you make it for most players to participate, the fewer players you'll have to play with. I think our community's norms for PF and group strategy have some impact on the relative amounts of difficult content clears when compared with other communities. Notably, JP ones are much higher, and that probably stems from a few factors, but I don't see why this this little wall created by players isn't one of them, and why people that care shouldn't try to knock it down. It will probably improve most player's quality of life, too! In general, anything you can do to make stuff quicker and easier is normally embraced by the community as "optimization," so it's kind of a glaring omission for the NA players to not also adopt macros! You can still keep your silly names for them, just put it in the macro!
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Sep 1, 2022 16:40
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Especially early in the raid tier actually getting info on strategies is tough outside of barging into someone's pf and asking them. I like macros and hope they catch on more eventually.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:46
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I mean I agree macros are good organizational tools people should use more often for role assignment but you have to know the strategy their designed for a lot of times anyways so it’s not like it changes that much. They’re just good for facilitating that process in PF
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Sep 1, 2022 16:46
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Macros own, but it's a lot more time intensive to make a good macro than to just list strat names and put down a square for people to stand around. The conversation kinda reminds me of the current ongoing issue in fighting games where people are just hosting guides and data in character discords and Google docs (which you find on said discord) rather than more easy to find and search places like wikis, but that's in large part because it's easier and very few people who find it annoying actually put in the effort to create or contribute to useful wikis themselves
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Sep 1, 2022 16:50
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I really wish the PF description would stay up somehow after it fills so you can remind yourself which strat is being used.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:54
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I've only ever been in one group where someone tried going with a macro for positions. It was E7S, the macro got posted, poster+me+one other person claimed a position, everyone else started setting up markers and ignored the macro. The group was pretty good at least and we got two or three quick clears.TheWorldsaStage posted:Me, waiting with bated breath for e12s to be farmably unsyncable for that mount SettingSun posted:The stacks are called enumerations, but I would refer to them as air bumps a la e6s.
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