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I kind of suspect the low number of Top Secrets is going to get used to let this blow right over.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:15
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slurm posted:I kind of suspect the low number of Top Secrets is going to get used to let this blow right over. Even one Top Secret document is too many.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:18
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slurm posted:I kind of suspect the low number of Top Secrets is going to get used to let this blow right over. I'm waiting for the "the folders were empty! Innocent!!" defense
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Sep 2, 2022 19:22
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The president only committed some light espionage, as we can see by the low count of top secret documents. Granted, the number of excuses and reasons as to why he should be let off or why it’s not a huge deal will continue to pile up anyway.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:23
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slurm posted:I kind of suspect the low number of Top Secrets is going to get used to let this blow right over. The classification doesn't matter. He'd be hosed even if they were all declassified.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:31
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mobby_6kl posted:The classification doesn't matter. He'd be hosed even if they were all declassified. I guess the real test is how many were things that only another branch can declassify vs stuff he could make the in pectore claim about
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Sep 2, 2022 19:32
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I wonder if the FBI checked behind the framed magazine covers for classified documents. Seems to me Trump would think it was the perfect hiding spot for the really good stuff. Of course, he'd get bored halfway through and/or not have the strength to undo the cardboard backing on the picture frame and the documents would then be half hanging out of the frames...
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Sep 2, 2022 19:34
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I'm waiting for the "the folders were empty! Innocent!!" defense I happened to peek into the Conservative reddit and this is the primary rationale: "folders are empty which means he doesn't have them, so therefore he's innocent. Witch hunt!"
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Sep 2, 2022 19:36
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Sieje posted:I wonder if the FBI checked behind the framed magazine covers for classified documents. Seems to me Trump would think it was the perfect hiding spot for the really good stuff. My theory is that’s how he was disseminating documents to buyers, by slipping them into framed photos/Time magazine covers.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:37
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slurm posted:I kind of suspect the low number of Top Secrets is going to get used to let this blow right over. Outside of Newsmax or Tucker Carlson, who do you think is going to say "oh, it was only X Top Secret documents? Well.... ok, maybe just probation and a stern warning, then". We are basically talking about 10 years per document. The government at all levels is pretty much preparing the public for the reality of a criminal prosecution, felony conviction, and prison sentence of a former president (hung MAGA juries aside). There are a couple things that could go wrong here, but the DOJ is going to take a real swing at it.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:40
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slurm posted:I guess the real test is how many were things that only another branch can declassify vs stuff he could make the in pectore claim about The current president can declassify anything.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:40
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Rigel posted:Outside of Newsmax or Tucker Carlson, who do you think is going to say "oh, it was only X Top Secret documents? Well.... ok, maybe just probation and a stern warning, then". We are basically talking about 10 years per document. Aren't they stopping work until after midterms on 9/10?
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Sep 2, 2022 19:43
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slurm posted:Aren't they stopping work until after midterms on 9/10? No
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Sep 2, 2022 19:44
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Bird in a Blender posted:Even one Top Secret document is too many. Exceptionally grave, even.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:44
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slurm posted:Aren't they stopping work until after midterms on 9/10? The 60 day rule does not apply to Trump, because it is not a new investigation and he is not running for anything. And even if it did, who cares, it would only be an attempt to avoid giving the appearance of trying to sway the election, it would not be an indication that they aren't going after Trump.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:45
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slurm posted:Aren't they stopping work until after midterms on 9/10? According to sources. Not DOJ sources, just, you know....sources. People familiar with their own thinking, that sort of thing.
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Sep 2, 2022 19:46
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Rigel posted:The 60 day rule does not apply to Trump, because it is not a new investigation and he is not running for anything. And even if it did, who cares, it would only be an attempt to avoid giving the appearance of trying to sway the election, it would not be an indication that they aren't going after Trump. That would fuckin rule if they keep chugging and tormenting him, riled up off script Trump during the midterms campaigning
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Sep 2, 2022 19:51
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Mercury_Storm posted:Item #28-Box/container from Storage Room Any guesses on what he would have been clipping in those months? In February Trump didn't have much good news:, the Muslim ban was blocked and Flynn resigned. March was a better month for him: he accused Obama of wiretapping Trump Tower, AG Sessions dismissed Obama-era prosecutors, and he ended a ton of climate policies. It totally makes no difference what the articles are, I'm just killing time at work before a long weekend.
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Sep 2, 2022 20:02
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V-Men posted:Among other actually classified documents. "Special" Master Gym Jordan will bury anything incriminating to Dumb Donnie on Kepler 22b.
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Sep 2, 2022 20:15
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Any guesses on what he would have been clipping in those months? In February Trump didn't have much good news:, the Muslim ban was blocked and Flynn resigned. I wouldn't read anything into that; nearly all of the boxes contained a few to many dozen articles and clippings, totaling more than enough to cover every single month from Oct 2015 to Nov 2020 multiple times over. The fact that one box merely happened to contain one article each from the first two months of his presidency is probably a fluke. There's even a couple sets containing articles dating back to 2008 and 1995. slurm posted:I guess the real test is how many were things that only another branch can declassify vs stuff he could make the in pectore claim about No, it's not. The search warrant covered three different felonies, none of which require the government property in question to be classified. Why would a prosecutor even bother trying to make a much more difficult case raising novel questions about classification status and presidential powers when they have MORE THAN TEN THOUSAND open and shut felony cases of obstruction, espionage, and theft and destruction of government property to charge him with?
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Sep 2, 2022 20:48
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slurm posted:I guess the real test is how many were things that only another branch can declassify vs stuff he could make the in pectore claim about in pectore isn't a legal doctrine, it's the pope secretly appointing a cardinal. People talking about it are making fun of an obviously false excuse Trump's lawyers made. Even if he could telepathically declassify documents, Biden can telepathically classify them again and the law in question doesn't care whether they're classified. If the court were going to let Trump off for that, they could equally well just yell MAGA and let him off.
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Sep 2, 2022 21:03
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slurm posted:I kind of suspect the low number of Top Secrets is going to get used to let this blow right over. Who among us doesnt have at least a few Top Secret documents scattered around our house? I was cleaning the other day and found four just in my living room.
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Sep 2, 2022 21:06
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:Who among us doesnt have at least a few Top Secret documents scattered around our house? Look out the front window, wave at the Party Van men
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Sep 2, 2022 21:09
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James Garfield posted:in pectore isn't a legal doctrine, it's the pope secretly appointing a cardinal. People talking about it are making fun of an obviously false excuse Trump's lawyers made. Even if he could telepathically declassify documents, Biden can telepathically classify them again and the law in question doesn't care whether they're classified. Start telling chuds that Biden has been using his classification powers to telepathically make their drivers license top secret and the next time they get stopped by a cop they will be arrested.
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Sep 2, 2022 21:13
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James Garfield posted:in pectore isn't a legal doctrine, it's the pope secretly appointing a cardinal. People talking about it are making fun of an obviously false excuse Trump's lawyers made. Even if he could telepathically declassify documents, Biden can telepathically classify them again and the law in question doesn't care whether they're classified. I know what it is, it just seems like a ton of presidential powers stuff runs on decorum and it's absolutely the Trump playbook to minimize and drag everything into the weeds
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Sep 2, 2022 21:21
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Fart Amplifier posted:The current president can declassify anything. This is not correct. While most classification stems from the executive, and therefore a sitting president can undo it at will, there are a few categories of classified material that are classified by separate law, which means that only the congress can declassify such documents, by passing a bill. One such category is "nuclear secrets", or things covered by the Atomic Energy acts of 1946 and 1954. This is why "nuclear secrets" has been such a hot topic in this investigation -- if Trump stole those, they remained classified even if he tried to declassify them. Another category protected by law is identity of spies working for the US.
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Sep 2, 2022 21:42
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I think people are confusing two different things. No one has a higher classification than the President of the United States and if he said, show me the top secret file on aliens and they walk among us file no one can (in theory) deny him seeing it. That doesn't make it declassified. It just means the President has all the access to all the things at once if they so choose.
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Sep 2, 2022 21:50
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Mooseontheloose posted:I think people are confusing two different things. No one has a higher classification than the President of the United States and if he said, show me the top secret file on aliens and they walk among us file no one can (in theory) deny him seeing it. Have you not seen Independence Day?! They don't have to tell the President until he has a need-to-know
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Sep 2, 2022 21:53
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Mooseontheloose posted:I think people are confusing two different things. No one has a higher classification than the President of the United States and if he said, show me the top secret file on aliens and they walk among us file no one can (in theory) deny him seeing it. I don't think this is strictly true, certainly not in practice.
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Sep 2, 2022 22:03
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Mooseontheloose posted:That doesn't make it declassified. It just means the President has all the access to all the things at once if they so choose. To further stir the pot, the POTUS does have the power to declassify most things with a word. Because most things that are classified are classified under executive orders, which the president can give or rescind at will, even verbally. My point was just that while that's true of most things, it doesn't cover exactly everything, because a few categories of information are classified under acts of congress.
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Sep 2, 2022 22:14
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Cranappleberry posted:it is, it's just not nearly as accurate or precise as TV or police would have people believe. No not really. If it were it would be replicable and experts would consistently come to the same conclusions independently, which they do not. It is real in the sense that fingerprints might be unique(there is some science to support this) and might be able to be matched up, theoretically. More reading: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/228091.pdf
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Sep 2, 2022 22:20
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Tuna-Fish posted:This is not correct. While most classification stems from the executive, and therefore a sitting president can undo it at will, there are a few categories of classified material that are classified by separate law, which means that only the congress can declassify such documents, by passing a bill. One such category is "nuclear secrets", or things covered by the Atomic Energy acts of 1946 and 1954. This is why "nuclear secrets" has been such a hot topic in this investigation -- if Trump stole those, they remained classified even if he tried to declassify them. The President's classification authority stems from the Constitution. I find it unlikely that SCOTUS would rule allowing Congress to limit these powers. Other aspects of the "Restricted Data" portion of the Atomic Energy Act has also never been tested in court, such as the "born secret" aspect. edit: Especially considering there are actual valid laws by which you can prosecute that don't depend on classification status.
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Sep 2, 2022 23:00
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If newspapers and other media outlets don't start using the headline "Benedict Donald" they will be missing out.
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Sep 2, 2022 23:51
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Trump is never going to be put in jail. Not saying he shouldn't. Just that he won't
BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 00:37
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BiggerBoat posted:Trump is never going to put in jail. Not saying he shouldn't. Just that he won't This is not wrong, but just being charged could dissuade some idiot moderates from voting for him again. Not the diehard MAGA crew, but some
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Sep 3, 2022 00:42
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BiggerBoat posted:Trump is never going to put in jail. Not saying he shouldn't. Just that he won't Do you have any proof that backs up this assertion? I find it hard to see how you could, given that it concerns the future of a very unprecedented event, but you seem pretty confident.
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Sep 3, 2022 00:43
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BiggerBoat posted:Trump is never going to put in jail. Not saying he shouldn't. Just that he won't The only thing that could be reasonably expected as a possibility preventing it would be a series of repeatedly-hung juries followed by the government finally giving up.
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Sep 3, 2022 00:44
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Main Paineframe posted:Do you have any proof that backs up this assertion? I find it hard to see how you could, given that it concerns the future of a very unprecedented event, but you seem pretty confident. Can't prove a negative. Can you provide proof that he will be going to jail? I suspect people are just making predictions based on him admitting to crimes and not going to jail previously.
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Sep 3, 2022 00:49
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Main Paineframe posted:Do you have any proof that backs up this assertion? I find it hard to see how you could, given that it concerns the future of a very unprecedented event, but you seem pretty confident.
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Sep 3, 2022 01:04
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Dr. Faustus posted:Trump must have his SS protection and they cannot join him in jail. We have to house arrest him or something like that. They can hang out right outside the cell like any other guards
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Sep 3, 2022 01:10
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