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Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

#essereFerrari


It's YYYYMMDD so that it can sort alphabetically and still be correct

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Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Final-YYYYMMDD
Old-YYYYMMDD
New-YYYYMMDD

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





Not pissing me off: After 92 applications in August, interviews are starting to come in. Not just one, but many! I have three lined up and two more in the pipeline.

Maybe I can finally get out of this plodding hellhole I'm in now, and go back to actually making a difference somewhere.

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


Sywert of Thieves posted:

Yeah but the real issue is if you write it y/m/d, y-m-d or y.m.d or ymd or

Hyphens are the only way. (Not to mention you can't do slashes on Windows so that's not cross-platform).

Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat

Thanks Ants posted:

It's YYYYMMDD so that it can sort alphabetically and still be correct

Just use
zzzz_Monday
ZZZZZ_Monday
ZZzzz_MONDAY
ZZZZZZ1_monday

isn't that the right way?

Lol story time. I worked for a CMS company that uses an nosql object oriented database to store a tremendous amount of info.

Basically the database was visualized as a folder structure by the client, ie it would load an object, with a class "FOLDER" and then check the class "CHILDREN" for objects that were linked as children to it that had a class of "folder" and it could visually display the database as folder tree based on "parent" "children" classes of the object loaded by the client.

So this got to be a problem when as a CMS it tended to store objects in date folders. Typically the stricture was

YYYY/
MM/
01/
02/
n/
MM/
01/

etc so the larged parent to child relationship would be 31 (if there was a month with 31 days)

However in one customer, a HUGE customer, they decided to have the each day be a YYYY-MM-DD folder, meaning that the root has an ever growing number of folders as the system is a CMS and will have content for 20-30 years. They also imported years of backcontent into it, so it goes back before we launched the system.

It's a nightmare because when someone clicks the root folder to open it (in what looks like a windows explorer folder to them but is actually a database browser), the entire database LIGHTS ON FIRE while it checks the absolutely massive list of child and parent keys in a single threaded lookup to build the visualization. It was a complete night mare, imagine if every time you clicked on your documents folder it locked up the entire company's HD's while it loaded.

SixFigureSandwich
Oct 30, 2004
Exciting Lemon

Breetai posted:

In what context? It's useful for chronological ordering when sorting by filename at least.

nielsm posted:

Sane people use YYYYMMDD. What are you gonna do if a time traveler from 1981 arrives and is confused about which century the dates fall in?

It isn't really about needing the century, it's that 210322 is incredibly ambiguous because it can mean two different things.

Max Peck
Oct 12, 2013

You know you're having a bad day when a Cylon ambush would improve it.

SixFigureSandwich posted:

It isn't really about needing the century, it's that 210322 is incredibly ambiguous because it can mean two different things.

Don't be silly, that clearly means a little after 9 pm :v:

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009



SixFigureSandwich posted:

It isn't really about needing the century, it's that 210322 is incredibly ambiguous because it can mean two different things.

That's why you release all your software on 01/01, 02/02, 03/03, ... 12/12.

Sywert of Thieves
Nov 7, 2005

The pirate code is really more of a guideline, than actual rules.

SyNack Sassimov posted:

Hyphens are the only way. (Not to mention you can't do slashes on Windows so that's not cross-platform).

If you're taking about filenames, only a madman would use any type of slash in there, on any platform. That's what underscores are for!

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Underscores are a second tier option because they need the shift key to type.

PremiumSupport
Aug 17, 2015

Wizard of the Deep posted:

The pronunciation guide is pretty simple:

YYYYMMDD- "The Right Way"
YYMMDD- "The Wrong Way"
DDMMYY- "The American Way"

I'm probably missing The Joke here, but the American way is actually MMDDYY which to be fair, is completely stupid.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007

Yool 2022 of the month of September and day 1st sounds logical, like, for keeping records.

For conversation month and date are more important, year barely changes, so back of the line.

Saying date first has no context, the 25th but which 25th

We don't say 1st of September as much as we do say September 1st, anecdotally

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady
Counterpoint:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs069dndIYk

Wizard of the Deep
Sep 25, 2005

Another productive workday

PremiumSupport posted:

I'm probably missing The Joke here, but the American way is actually MMDDYY which to be fair, is completely stupid.

NO YOUR WRONG AND I'M GONNA BLOW THINGS UP UNTIL YOU'RE FREERIGHT MORAN

(i typo'd and now i fixed it)

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
Can we put the USB standards group thru a series of medieval tortures?

https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/2022-09/USB%20PG%20USB4%20Version%202.0%2080Gbps%20Announcement_FINAL.pdf

Another variant on a usb standard. Can we stop doing this poo poo?

Unexpected Raw Anime
Oct 9, 2012

SlowBloke posted:

Can we put the USB standards group thru a series of medieval tortures?

https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/2022-09/USB%20PG%20USB4%20Version%202.0%2080Gbps%20Announcement_FINAL.pdf

Another variant on a usb standard. Can we stop doing this poo poo?

they can do whatever they want with it imo as long as they never change the freaking connector again. usb-c is perfectly fine, no more connector changes

ptier
Jul 2, 2007

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
Pillbug

Unexpected Raw Anime posted:

they can do whatever they want with it imo as long as they never change the freaking connector again. usb-c is perfectly fine, no more connector changes

But ma' Thin iPhone!
:goonsay:

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

USB 4 ver 2.0_FINAL

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


The thing that always messed with my head with relation to USB is why didn't we have a type-c connector right off the bat?

I mean, I can understand that from a signaling perspective we needed to have progression in silicon to get where we are today with respect to speeds. From a PHYSICAL perspective though, what would have prevented them from going with type C from the start (or at least, early enough to skip mini-USB)? Nothing about the physical aspect of it seems like it's something we couldn't have done 20 years ago. Are the pinouts too close together to have good signaling on older silicon or what?

This has always bothered me why it took so long for the physical interconnect to get to something usable and good.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017

bull3964 posted:

The thing that always messed with my head with relation to USB is why didn't we have a type-c connector right off the bat?

I mean, I can understand that from a signaling perspective we needed to have progression in silicon to get where we are today with respect to speeds. From a PHYSICAL perspective though, what would have prevented them from going with type C from the start (or at least, early enough to skip mini-USB)? Nothing about the physical aspect of it seems like it's something we couldn't have done 20 years ago. Are the pinouts too close together to have good signaling on older silicon or what?

This has always bothered me why it took so long for the physical interconnect to get to something usable and good.

I think the core issue is manufacturing prices, one of the core values of usb was to keep it simple on connectors and cable while offload complexity on the host components. USB-C is far more complex than usb or firewire connector wise. It has almost as many pins as dvi while being far smaller, until very recently a sizable number of amazon usb-c cables weren't done by machine but hand due to the tiny size.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009



One of the original base ideas of USB was also that it was a host-to-peripheral protocol. The computer is the host and controls all aspects, the peripheral just does as told. The idea that a device could switch between being the host and the peripheral was not part of it, and because the connection was directional in that way, the plugs on the host and peripheral were made to be obviously different so you could only hook things up in valid topographies. USB-A on the host side and USB-B on the peripheral side.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Also what is a good idea changes over time. When usb-a ports were unleashed on the world, we all lived in a world that was connected with d-sub ports. At that point usb-a was great because it was sturdy and you could gorilla it into the socket without bending pins (granted it took flipping it over four times before figuring out you had the correct orientation the first time).

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader


xzzy posted:

Also what is a good idea changes over time. When usb-a ports were unleashed on the world, we all lived in a world that was connected with d-sub ports. At that point usb-a was great because it was sturdy and you could gorilla it into the socket without bending pins (granted it took flipping it over four times before figuring out you had the correct orientation the first time).

Also not accidentally forcing it into the RJ45 port which was just about the right size if you were shoving from behind without looking.

shoving from behind without looking is also my porn name

Thomamelas
Mar 11, 2009
The USB spec required putting the USB logo on top of the connector. That may be the single most ignored part of the spec.

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

xzzy posted:

Also what is a good idea changes over time. When usb-a ports were unleashed on the world, we all lived in a world that was connected with d-sub ports. At that point usb-a was great because it was sturdy and you could gorilla it into the socket without bending pins (granted it took flipping it over four times before figuring out you had the correct orientation the first time).

Fun fact about most USB type A plugs. The side with the USB symbol is the correct side up. :eng101:

Efb! :argh:

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009

Thomamelas posted:

The USB spec required putting the USB logo on top of the connector. That may be the single most ignored part of the spec.

It's ignored by manufacturers because they're cheap and by users because it's meaningless. The logo on top works, until it doesn't, or the plug is vertical (like on a motherboard) so there is no "top", or usb drives that ... just do whatever they want that day.

Paladine_PSoT
Jan 2, 2010

If you have a problem Yo, I'll solve it

Maneki Neko posted:

Hopefully complete with a garbage passive matrix LCD screen

Yes.

And it's black and white. It does have a manual switch on the side of the monitor to invert the black and white if you so wish to, though :) It's truly horrifying.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

Polio Vax Scene posted:

yeah but youre hosed when 10000 AD comes around.

Isn’t the next one 2038?

That’s when the epoch counter (type int) overflows, right? Everyone gets to run around and convert type int to bigint?

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Any 64 bit OS will have already converted to a bigger int, so 2038 will be a non-issue. The main concern will be embedded systems (and by 2038 anything running now will be a historical curiosity I hope).

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




xzzy posted:

Underscores are a second tier option because they need the shift key to type.

We use a mix of underscores and dashes for AD group names. The first part is the group prefix, which has no punctuation. Then an underscore, followed by the specific group with space replaced with dashes., or: NYCManufacturing_Site-Admins.

Volguus posted:

It's ignored by manufacturers because they're cheap and by users because it's meaningless. The logo on top works, until it doesn't, or the plug is vertical (like on a motherboard) so there is no "top", or usb drives that ... just do whatever they want that day.

The underside of the A connector has the seam on it. Finding the direction on what you're working with is up to the individual tech, but the seam is always down.

Bargearse
Nov 27, 2006

🛑 Don't get your pen🖊️, son, you won't be 👌 needing that 😌. My 🥡 order's 💁 simple😉, a shitload 💩 of dim sims 🌯🀄. And I want a bucket 🪣 of soya sauce☕😋.

Paladine_PSoT posted:

Yes.

And it's black and white. It does have a manual switch on the side of the monitor to invert the black and white if you so wish to, though :) It's truly horrifying.

I've got a Sharp PC4700 XT class laptop I keep around for the same reason, and also partly because it's fun to dick around with it.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

mllaneza posted:

The underside of the A connector has the seam on it. Finding the direction on what you're working with is up to the individual tech, but the seam is always down.
I am pretty sure I have at least one old cable with the seams on the sides.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

xzzy posted:

Any 64 bit OS will have already converted to a bigger int, so 2038 will be a non-issue. The main concern will be embedded systems (and by 2038 anything running now will be a historical curiosity I hope).

I can now rest easy that a difficult time in our collective future as reported by the mass media has been avoided

Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007

i sometimes throw cables away

i mean straight into the bin without spending 10+ years in the box of might-come-in-handy-someday first

im a fucking monster

xzzy posted:

and by 2038 anything running now will be a historical curiosity I hope

everyone in 1983 posted:

and by 2000 anything running now will be a historical curiosity I hope

SyNack Sassimov
May 4, 2006

Let the robot win.
            --Captain James T. Vader



Whoa whoa whoa listen up here pal, this is the human race. We don't fuckin' learn from our past mistakes, that's for chumps! We'll just bulldoze ahead confident that nothing will go wrong exactly like nothing went wrong in the past!

Also even if it does go wrong who cares, that's a problem for future us! And as far as future me, may I say, gently caress that guy, he can deal with it. Haha. Sucks for him.

:smuggo:

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
Lmao by 2038 we will all be fighting in the climate wars or dead. Either way, epoch time will be the least of our worries.

Polio Vax Scene
Apr 5, 2009



its called job security, by fixing that now you're taking money out of my 2038 pocket

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Super-NintendoUser posted:

Just use
zzzz_Monday
ZZZZZ_Monday
ZZzzz_MONDAY
ZZZZZZ1_monday

isn't that the right way?

Lol story time. I worked for a CMS company that uses an nosql object oriented database to store a tremendous amount of info.

Basically the database was visualized as a folder structure by the client, ie it would load an object, with a class "FOLDER" and then check the class "CHILDREN" for objects that were linked as children to it that had a class of "folder" and it could visually display the database as folder tree based on "parent" "children" classes of the object loaded by the client.

So this got to be a problem when as a CMS it tended to store objects in date folders. Typically the stricture was

YYYY/
MM/
01/
02/
n/
MM/
01/

etc so the larged parent to child relationship would be 31 (if there was a month with 31 days)

However in one customer, a HUGE customer, they decided to have the each day be a YYYY-MM-DD folder, meaning that the root has an ever growing number of folders as the system is a CMS and will have content for 20-30 years. They also imported years of backcontent into it, so it goes back before we launched the system.

It's a nightmare because when someone clicks the root folder to open it (in what looks like a windows explorer folder to them but is actually a database browser), the entire database LIGHTS ON FIRE while it checks the absolutely massive list of child and parent keys in a single threaded lookup to build the visualization. It was a complete night mare, imagine if every time you clicked on your documents folder it locked up the entire company's HD's while it loaded.

What database was it? I work for a database company that can do something similar with directories (although in practice we rarely do) and I'm reasonably certain we can pretty easily return a directory with millions of subdirectories no problem. You would probably want to paginate the results, though.

Edit: 20 years of directories is only like 7,300 directories. That shouldn't be a problem for Windows, much less a database designed to operate that way.

KillHour fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Sep 6, 2022

zokie
Feb 13, 2006

Out of many, Sweden
Just got an email from “client management” that they will be force uninstalling some applications shortly. Included in the lists: Notepad++, Beyond Compare, and 7-Zip

Nice…

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Sywert of Thieves
Nov 7, 2005

The pirate code is really more of a guideline, than actual rules.

Tbh I only use Notepad++ to do global search & replace in multiple files, because I'm too dumb to figure out sed.

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