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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:
No, I literally went to Caracas and saw it. Maybe the dumbest accusation to levy at me because it’s the first thing you see coming from the airport. Flappy Bert posted:Is there such thing as electronic/non-cash payments at all given dollarization, do shopkeepers have workarounds, or is it just a cash economy? So there’s some support for Zelle and other quick transfer alternatives but those require you to have a US bank account (there’s some shady ways to get one without going there). There’s different mobile pay options in bolívares only. And if you have a foreign bank card, you can use it in most places. But yeah primarily it’s a cash economy. Fun aside since I just left Maiquetia, there are not one, not two, but seven passport checks before boarding the flight. And three separate baggage checks performed by the anti drug trafficking wing of the GNB. Maiquetia is honestly a loving nightmare now. fnox fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Aug 21, 2022 |
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Aug 21, 2022 09:04
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fnox posted:No, I literally went to Caracas and saw it. Maybe the dumbest accusation to levy at me because it’s the first thing you see coming from the airport. If two people are noticing the same really weird thing, even within days of each other, my initial thought is: it's probably because that poo poo seems particularly out of place, and you certainly don't need to be an idealogue to notice it. We all notice the same thing going to the US or watching US TV: holy gently caress, there are a lot of ads for drugs, loving everywhere, and you'd assume most Americans suffer from the ol' floppy penis, because there's poo poo tons of ads about it. You'd be quite insane not to mention it; it's weird to a foreign audience, and it deserves a comment. A similar thing I've noticed visiting some countries (Cuba yes, but also places in Europe): holy gently caress, there are cigarette ads around! It's about things seeming either very different from what they were, or very different from what a foreign audience might expect, and both are worthy of comment. "It's a conspiracy that several people notice a very visible change!" Nah, it ain't. PT6A fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Aug 22, 2022 |
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Aug 22, 2022 06:09
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PT6A posted:If two people are noticing the same really weird thing, even within days of each other, my initial thought is: it's probably because that poo poo seems particularly out of place, and you certainly don't need to be an idealogue to notice it. I mean I've read all sorts of weird accusations being thrown at me, that I'm not actually Venezuelan, or that I'm either a plantation owner, a CIA plant or a fascist. This stuff is plain to see though, like, I remember what ads those billboards used to have 6 years ago, and they were not ads for fashion brands, they were all political. It sticks out like a sore thumb. I particularly remember that one of those ads, the one by El Recreo when you're going east to west down the Francisco Fajardo, said something about food security achieved under socialism and the award that UN agency gave Venezuela. It is now an ad for a local jeans brand, they link only to their instagram which I can probably find if I go through my photos. But I've never understood why there's need to deboonk everything I bring up about this country. I've yet to hear anyone from that crowd ever earnestly investigate the claim that Venezuela has abandoned socialism. My goal is not to serve as some expert witness here, I went and saw how the country is like and can affirm for myself that it is indeed like I had heard. The determination to continue to defend Maduro's government even at this point is just something I'm morbidly curious about, as it really, really doesn't make sense to me, because there should be a higher bar than to simply be an enemy of the US.
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Aug 22, 2022 11:28
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As an aspiring young leftist 15 years ago, Hugo Chavez's Venezuela was a plucky underdog and thorn in the side of US hegemony. When I'd go on alternet or equivalent sites I'd usually see a pro-Venezuela piece, something about them funding humanitarian efforts with their oil wealth. There's a lot of people who still cling to that vision of the country as a socialist paragon.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:52
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https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1566585610457989120 so uh...what happens now?
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Sep 5, 2022 02:22
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Doctor Teeth posted:https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1566585610457989120 https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/04/world/americas/chile-constitution-no.html quote:Now, Chile’s political establishment will have to decide the next steps, and it appeared that the broad rejection on Sunday had given Chile’s conservatives control. According to the NY Times, it sounds like the conservatives get a shot.
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Sep 5, 2022 03:09
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Doctor Teeth posted:https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1566585610457989120 What went wrong here? I haven't heard a thing about the proposed constitution aside from hopeful pieces about the country's future once the convention was called and the election of its members.
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Sep 5, 2022 08:16
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Doctor Teeth posted:https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1566585610457989120 Nothing happens. The conservatives have all the power, and they have never wanted to change anything. 62 to 32 is absolutely a crushing defeat and they will capitalize on it every way possible. The president has called every party to draw a path forward, but one of the rightwing parties are already discarding it, and another is already slowwalking it, just like they never proposed a way forward in all this time. Maybe in a couple decades we will get another chance, who knows. Maybe there will be another uprising again and this time targeted at a weaked leftwing government where the right has everything to win. Fuschia tude posted:What went wrong here? I haven't heard a thing about the proposed constitution aside from hopeful pieces about the country's future once the convention was called and the election of its members. This is just theory, it is too early to really get at the final reason, but what I think happened is that every election since the uprising in 2019 has been voluntary, and as such, everything than has been elected(about 5 or 6 elections) since then has not really been representative of what are actually a quite conservative and individuallistic country. But now it was obligatory, and it turns out that pretty much every voter who had not voted before(voluntary vote was always around 45%-55%, turnout now was over 90%) broke almost exclusively for reject, for the previously mentioned individuallism reasons, as well as straight up fake news(people thought you'd lose your house, or have 2 flags and anthems, or have to take in foreigners in your spare bedroom), racist reasons(a huge point for people who otherwise liked a great portion of the constitution did not like the indigenous stuff) and finally there was a punish vote, that Boric in 6 months has not been able to solve the crap situation that Piñera left the country in. And also the quite frankly naive belief that there could be a do-over. Medieval Medic fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 12:48
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I’m gonna ask my Chilean friends for some sources, but from the outside it seems like it’s more a reaction to Boric than a reaction to the actual text of the plesbicite. I don’t think there was anything in there that was particularly egregious like trying to abolish term limits or something like that, it’s all pretty standard progressive platforms like indigenous rights, reproductive rights, gender equality and so on.
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Sep 5, 2022 12:50
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Those are already bad enough for the right wing. Abortion and greater autonomy for indigenous peoples? Baby-eating COMMUNISM!
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Sep 5, 2022 13:16
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fnox posted:I’m gonna ask my Chilean friends for some sources, but from the outside it seems like it’s more a reaction to Boric than a reaction to the actual text of the plesbicite. I don’t think there was anything in there that was particularly egregious like trying to abolish term limits or something like that, it’s all pretty standard progressive platforms like indigenous rights, reproductive rights, gender equality and so on. I wouldn't call the proposed constitution "standard progressive" and generally speaking, constitutions are quite limited in their scope. They were ambitious here: there were clauses about animal rights, ecology and nature rights, and things found not in any other state constitution in the world. Boric took a big risk and IMO it backfired, particularly since this was a mandatory vote and not simply his electoral base.
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Sep 5, 2022 18:39
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I could say that the outcome was entirely a result of the grotesque disparity in funding between both camps, the Apruebo campaign being heavily decentralized, and the insane amount of disinfo being pumped into the airwaves and timelines 24/7, but those things were also present in the first referendum, the election for constitutional members, the legislative elections and the presidentials, so no, I don't think that was the entire reason. As early as last year, there was a general understanding that the final referendum would be, to a degree, a popularity vote on whoever was president at the time (I think I recall a couple of spicy leftist takes wondering if it wouldn't be better for the right to win the presidentials, for the same reason). But if polls are anything to go by, the constitutional assembly ended up being significantly less popular than Boric. Then again, pollsters ended up inflating the Apruebo's chances by like 10 points, so the slow recovery of Boric's approval numbers in the last couple of months might be equally illusory. The weight of leftist opposition to Boric might account for *some* of his drop in popularity, but the *overwhelming majority* of it boils down to crime and inflation (plus some unpopular ministers, Siches probably chief among them) that have left the population at large angry and afraid. Boric's coalition is a herd of cats (and will likely cease to exist soon, as each group reposition themselves in light of last night's results), but there's no organized movement consistently attacking Boric from the left unless you count electorally irrelevant MLM, Trotskyist and Hoxhaist groups, which might have some increased visibility for outside observers since they're some of the few who write about Chilean affairs in english. When it comes to the rank and file left-leaning voter, yeah there's been some disillusion about incorporating ex-Concerta figures and softening the government's stance on a number of topics, but these were largely things that were made evident from before Boric took office (due to the way Congress ended up and the desperate pivot to the center after the disastrous first round in the presidentials) so these likely weren't things that eroded his support by themselves. I certainly don't expect his numbers to get any better after last night, though. The weight of leftist opposition to the new constitution, in the meantime, was basically nonexistent. There were a few calls not to vote or to spoil the ballot because the proposal "didn't represent the streets", but whether these came from genuine groups I've never heard about or from psy-ops bullshit, numbers suggest they had no meaningful effect. Even if there were voices in the left with some misgivings about the proposal not including some of the original ideas (full nationalization of mineral resources and a couple of things regarding intellectual property, to name a couple) they tended to bite their lip and call for a Yes vote regardless. As far as it came to backing from organized political forces (parties, pressure groups or otherwise), the opposition to the new constitution was in the end entirely center and right-of-center. And ~~center-left~~, I guess. Something that became pretty clear to both camps as the campaign for the second referendum started was that it would be decided by who did the best job in shelving their most unpopular figures. The Apruebo camp struggled with this, while the Rechazo camp learned from their disastrous previous effort and stuffed Kast and the far right into a locker, and right-wing figures in general kept a low profile in the campaign. Or at least they kept a low profile in what could be considered the official campaign - TV ads, talk shows, interviews, and so on. They were set free on social media, where they were free to go even more unhinged than in the first referendum. Their role in the mainstream media was instead largely outsourced to Amarillos por Chile, an astroturfed platform of "citizens who've become disillusioned and concerned with the divisive text of the constitutional proposal and instead favor a new proposal that could unite the country". Amarillos's actual stances on what the constitution should include were vague enough, and their general tone was Hallmark card-bullshit enough, that they could be sold as "moderate, progressive center-left" if you were the kind of voter who "doesn't follow politics". They were headed by Cristián Warnken, a literary critic chiefly known for hosting a cultural interview show some years ago. Generally considered a milquetoast intellectual, Warnken became obsessed with cancel culture around the time of the riots and became increasingly employed by the right wing when they needed a 'progressive' voice against the 'far left'. Somewhat similar was the case of Javiera Parada, though her case was particularly stinging to the left since she's the daughter of one of the most high-profile victims of Pinochet's dictatorship (Slit Throats Case, if you want a trip down memory lane). She was initially a member of the Frente Amplio and considered part of the moderate wing, then became terminally decorum-brained during the riots and from then on became largely a joke among the left since she entirely devolved into a "you might be wondering what a leftist like me is doing supporting a right-wing candidate like this" type, for increasingly doomed candidates. Looks like she had the last laugh in the end. The ~center left~ wing of the Rechazo camp appeared to be limited to Amarillos for a while, but when the polls became consistently favorable to the Rechazo option, they slowly started to peel off ex-Concerta figures. These included those who had an axe to grind, like Christian Democrat Ximena Rincón, who was ratfucked out of a presidential run by her own party in the last election, and had been losing influence in the DC to more pro-Boric figures like Claudia Pizarro. You can actually see Rincón's timeline doing a 180° on the constitutional proposal basically overnight, and I wouldn't be surprised if she was offered a leadership spot in whatever abomination Amarillos por Chile morphs into in order to sweeten the deal. But eventually it went beyond figures who'd always been part of the radical centrist fringe, and by the time the poll numbers were particularly bad there was a solid number of ex-concerta wonks crossing the lines. There was a marked difference between the campaign on TV (in charge of libs) and on social media (in charge of the far-right), but the talking points were pretty similar. Communists are going to take away your home, communists are going to take away your pensions, if you're not native you're going to become a second-class citizen, Mapuche terrorists are going to walk free, etc. The 'moderates' coated this in a layer of "but we want something that can ~unite us~" paint, while the far-right added a few extra tracks online such as "Apruebo is literally Wallmapu separatism" and "Degenerates are salivating at the thought of the new constitution letting them teach anal sex to preschoolers". It's hard to say exactly what the Apruebo camp did wrong, since I might bemoan that they focused on rallying the base rather than aiming at independents and undecideds, but by all accounts there was a colossal canvassing effort (a practice that is actually not that widespread in Chilean elections) and a massive printing and distribution of copies of the constitutional proposal so people could disprove the more outrageous lies by themselves, and by every metric the copies were flying off the shelves (and off the mats of bootleg book vendors, which is the one metric that counts). Honestly, I feel like ever since the Rojas Vade fiasco (a left-independent constitutional member who got elected on the basis of a terminal cancer diagnose, which ended up being a complete fabrication), the pro-proposal camp went into the defensive and it never managed to regain the momentum. It also struggled to find good figures, since the government was mandated to remain at least superficially neutral, and most constitutional members proved to be pretty poo poo at communicating. Atria was too much of an academic, Stingo was painted as an unhinged lunatic, Loncon was soundbited into appearing pro-separatism, the entire Lista del Pueblo was a joke, etc. They got Bachelet's endorsement, which for some reason was expected to be a gamechanger (I might have even believed it too, because I'm a loving idiot), but by that point the campaign was dealing with PR nightmares practically every day, like the goddamn wipe-your-rear end-with-the-flag performance. All in all, this felt like the bizarro world counterpart to the first referendum. Deep down, everybody know it was going to be a defeat, once you got past the most unhinged denials of reality. It was the extent of the damage that was the real surprise, and I don't think we're gonna recover.
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Sep 5, 2022 21:07
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Sep 10, 2022 17:31
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https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1575701908253470720 Looks like the Cuban government cut off the internet. Rumors of protests and disruption coming out.
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Sep 30, 2022 07:44
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what's the death toll from ian comparing cuba and florida
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Sep 30, 2022 08:17
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#SOSCuba? The CIA trying fake up another revolt.
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Sep 30, 2022 12:08
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i fly airplanes posted:https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1575701908253470720 I’m sure it’s just as real as the last time and the US has no hand in this round of completely organic protests. Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 13:24
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It just loving sucks to talk about Latin America in this forum.
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Sep 30, 2022 13:26
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Here's something to discuss: the Cuban Family and Marriage Refferendum. A major step forwards as the US collapses backwards.
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Sep 30, 2022 16:20
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Yes, how else would we make this topic about how bad the US is?
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Sep 30, 2022 16:29
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fnox posted:It just loving sucks to talk about Latin America in this forum. You should post somewhere else then (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 30, 2022 16:44
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fnox posted:Yes, how else would we make this topic about how bad the US is? Which direction are LGBTQ rights headed in Cuba right now, and which way do you think they’re headed in the United States? Because I have to say things aren’t looking great for the US right now. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 30, 2022 16:54
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fnox posted:Yes, how else would we make this topic about how bad the US is? Yeah, let's discuss the region that is and has been the back yard of the world hyperpower for 70+ years, without ever bringing up said superpower. Let' also make a thread on 1st century Mediterranean politics but get pissy wheenver someone brings up Rome while at it.
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Sep 30, 2022 17:07
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Cup Runneth Over posted:You should post somewhere else then I have, so has just about every Latin American native and everyone remotely concerned about the region, as you can tell by how profoundly dead this thread is barring the ocasional Twitter post that allows “US bad” snipes without probes by being passingly on topic. Every other regional thread has at least some locals discussing relevant to their region. You try and post anything that wouldn’t immediately be related to the US, or the CIA, or Trump, something that would suggest any sort of agency from regional governments, and you’re met with dead loving air. There was a debate between Lula and Bolsonaro last night, for example. Did that even receive a mention in this thread?
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Sep 30, 2022 17:14
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Latin America ('s thread) is poo poo because of the US (posters).
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Sep 30, 2022 17:27
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fnox posted:There was a debate between Lula and Bolsonaro last night, for example. Did that even receive a mention in this thread? The debate was pretty bad. Most notable thing was a Nazi peace criminal cosplaying as a priest spreading fascist propaganda. We are all pretty tired here, hoping Lula gets a first round win.
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Sep 30, 2022 18:03
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fnox posted:There was a debate between Lula and Bolsonaro last night, for example. Did that even receive a mention in this thread? Bolsonaro got backup from a fake orthodox priest meme candidate that distracted everyone else. He should have been thrown out. Lula is going to win. I'm a Brazilian poster that mostly lurks but there is a severe lack of brazilians posting in general on SA, even the portuguese language thread is dead.
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Sep 30, 2022 20:04
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Frionnel posted:Bolsonaro got backup from a fake orthodox priest meme candidate that distracted everyone else. He should have been thrown out. Lula is going to win. Oddly enough, the Brazil thread was quite active until around 2015-16. After the impeachment and the crazyfication, it was as if all the local posters just burned out, and the foreign ones lost interest after it became clear that all of the things they liked about the place were gone.
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Sep 30, 2022 23:14
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Nucleic Acids posted:Here's something to discuss: the Cuban Family and Marriage Refferendum. A major step forwards as the US collapses backwards. Pretty much everything about this is irreconcilable with the US media narrative about Cuba, no wonder there's been a total blackout.
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Oct 1, 2022 04:25
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Pretty much everything about this is irreconcilable with the US media narrative about Cuba, no wonder there's been a total blackout. Complete silence. I mean, so long as you don't count The New York Times, The Washington Post - months ago when the assembly approved going to voters (and before the vote) (and after the vote) (twice, actually), CNN, or Fox, NBC, and the LA Times all joining WaPo in running the AP piece.
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Oct 1, 2022 04:44
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fnox posted:It just loving sucks to talk about Latin America in this forum. The netblock report showed internet traffic dieing down for 7 hours during major power outages and then coming back with the power, but implied that this somehow was because of government censorship and had nothing to do with, you know, the power outages. Groundbreaking reporting with tons of corrobarating evidence really. Truly a shame reporting like that is not appreciated more on these horrid tankie forums
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Oct 1, 2022 14:06
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Paracaidas posted:Complete silence. I mean, so long as you don't count The New York Times, The Washington Post - months ago when the assembly approved going to voters (and before the vote) (and after the vote) (twice, actually), CNN, or Fox, NBC, and the LA Times all joining WaPo in running the AP piece. Amazing how often you see people say "why isn't the media covering this?" about things the media is, in fact, covering, and that the person asking the question more often than not learned about through media coverage. I don't even mean this in a "dunk on the tankies" way; it's remarkably common across the political spectrum.
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Oct 1, 2022 17:43
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Silver2195 posted:Amazing how often you see people say "why isn't the media covering this?" about things the media is, in fact, covering, and that the person asking the question more often than not learned about through media coverage. I don't even mean this in a "dunk on the tankies" way; it's remarkably common across the political spectrum. The inverse is taking a single article or soundbite or news clip and going "Look what THE MEDIA is saying!"
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Oct 1, 2022 18:30
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So...think Neymar's endorsement will turn it around for Mr. Covid?
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Oct 1, 2022 18:32
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Doctor Teeth posted:So...think Neymar's endorsement will turn it around for Mr. Covid? Probably not but it does fortunately give yet another great reason to cheer whenever Neymar gets tackled in the World Cup.
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Oct 1, 2022 19:41
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https://twitter.com/jairbolsonaro/status/1576373031177715712 of course
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Oct 2, 2022 18:29
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What's he saying?
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Oct 2, 2022 21:11
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the interim president of Venezuela looks like he's seen better days
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Oct 2, 2022 21:13
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Polidoro posted:Latin America ('s thread) is poo poo because of the US (posters). Not all US posters. Just the ones that link Jacobin and ones that try to turn every discussion here about America. Or that democracy in Latin America is not real because CIA. Except for when their preferred candidate wins.
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Oct 2, 2022 21:42
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Scam Likely posted:What's he saying? He's thanking Bolsonaro and the Brazilian government for allowing Venezuelans to take refuge in the country. He then says that Brazilians will in a few days have the option to vote in free and fair elections, which is what they strive to accomplish in Venezuela. Lastly he hopes that Brazil continues to be an ally to democracy and not of a dictatorship, implying Maduro. To note, Lula has publicly mentioned he would like to see free elections in Venezuela. He's not really an ally of Maduro anymore.
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Oct 2, 2022 22:36
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