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It could also be up to each legion's Legatus. I don't know.
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Sep 4, 2022 14:05
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Do we actually see anything above the footsoliders in this scene? Maybe the uniform is not only for practical reasons, but also to help mark conscripts with a different outfit to help emphasize the "outsiderness" of those conscripts to the rest of the army. To help that sense of alienation as a potential stick, with the accompanying carrot of ascension into Garlean society.
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Sep 4, 2022 14:19
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Twibbit posted:I do find it fascinating that the Garlean empire will alter gear for where people are stationed, even if there is not a logistics reason for it necessarily. Like it is one thing to adjust to working in a cold, or really hot climate. Another for them to go full cosplay. There is a thing I want to say about this, but it won't be relevant until the end of 4.0 and someone else will probably beat me to punch. But if I remember, I will be sure and bring it up!
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Sep 4, 2022 14:22
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AncientSpark posted:Do we actually see anything above the footsoliders in this scene? Maybe the uniform is not only for practical reasons, but also to help mark conscripts with a different outfit to help emphasize the "outsiderness" of those conscripts to the rest of the army. To help that sense of alienation as a potential stick, with the accompanying carrot of ascension into Garlean society. Considering we’ve already seen that the Skulls in Ala Mhigo had their own custom uniform, it seems like a pretty safe inference that that’s what the Garleans do with conscripts policing their homelands. Set them apart from both the rest of the empire’s armies and their countrymen, break the spirits of the conquered by appropriating their culture into yet another means of subjugation… It’s brutally effective at kicking people who are already down, and keeping them down.
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Sep 4, 2022 16:43
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That said, we have seen plenty of conscripts in the "standard" uniform as well, back in Ala Mhigo and Eorzea. There's a mix of approaches. Perhaps the supply lines are simpler or something. Oh, Eorzea does have supplies of Ceruleum. Wild guess, the Eastern variants may have lighter plating to make better use of limited imported factory fuel, where other areas we've seen have been able to produce their own and thus have sufficient stocks for the standard pattern.
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Sep 4, 2022 17:47
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AncientSpark posted:Do we actually see anything above the footsoliders in this scene? Maybe the uniform is not only for practical reasons, but also to help mark conscripts with a different outfit to help emphasize the "outsiderness" of those conscripts to the rest of the army. To help that sense of alienation as a potential stick, with the accompanying carrot of ascension into Garlean society. The most prominent character wearing the Doman uniform in these scenes is a Pilus, and therefore almost certainly a Garlean rather than Doman.
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Sep 4, 2022 19:23
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Twibbit posted:I do find it fascinating that the Garlean empire will alter gear for where people are stationed, even if there is not a logistics reason for it necessarily. Like it is one thing to adjust to working in a cold, or really hot climate. Another for them to go full cosplay. The armies of real life empires had different uniforms to account for strong ethic membership of units. The Royal Scotts, Irish, and Gurkha Regiments of the British Army for example have different uniforms from the rest that incorporate elements of their nation dress to this day. You see this with the Skulls as others have mentioned. There could be a heavy Doman presence in the Legion here and the other Legions only have a shattered amount of volunteers/pressed non-Garlean members. Empires also just love extravagant uniforms. Some quartermaster probably looked at the map. Said, "these units are permanently in Doma. I'm going to give them some uniforms with a local favor. It's going to look great when they march through on parade with the rest. The people will pop when see something so exotic. The Emperor will love it."
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Sep 4, 2022 21:13
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That quartermaster’s name? Hugossius Bossius
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Sep 5, 2022 01:13
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Yanxia - 延夏 - Yan Xia - Prolonged summer I have my own personal minor beef with Yanxia in that it's aesthetically Chinese but it has Japanese names and samurai and ninjas. Like, c'mon.
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Sep 5, 2022 02:09
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Honestly that feels more like a Western game developer move. "I dunno, put some Asian stuff in there."
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Sep 5, 2022 02:30
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I mean if you can't mix up different cultural influences and aesthetics to make a cool zone in a fictional fantasy game world, where can you?
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Sep 5, 2022 02:32
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But I mean… there is also a very…. complicated history between Japan and China where Japan rarely comes out looking anything close to the “good guys.” So to have “this land looks like China but we’re using Japanese names” can be a little 😬
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Sep 5, 2022 02:39
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I'm just going to say this now because people have accused me of this position before: I am NOT saying that Yoship or anyone on the FFXIV dev team is a Rising Sun flag-waving Japanese fascist. I am NOT saying that everyone else who is of Chinese descent agrees with me or has to agree with me. It's just my own personal beef with Doma. What I AM saying is that the dev team probably didn't have someone on the team to look at their innocent decision to have a bit of a mashup culture and see that it was a bit iffy on the cultural side of things. Also I just think that Fei Yan is a cooler name than Hien. Ibblebibble fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 03:08
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Schwartzcough posted:Honestly that feels more like a Western game developer move. "I dunno, put some Asian stuff in there." Guild Wars was made by a Korean developer and made a 'mash all of East Asia together into one continent' expansion. Internal company backlash was so severe that in Guild Wars 2 they originally made a district in the human capital for that region but decided that Cantha was so racist that they replaced the Canthan district with a literal hole in the ground. When they eventually did add Cantha to Guild Wars 2, they streamlined the region to be very emphatically fantasy Korea, with all the overt Chinese, Japanese, Polynesian, and other influences scrubbed. Asian developers can be just as insensitive as Western developers when it comes to depicting fantasy cultures and lands based on real-world Asian cultures and lands. As it happens, I've also heard from Chinese FF14 players that the whole 'conquered by a technologically advanced foreign empire and crushed under heel' thing for Doma resonates heavily with Chinese cultural experiences in the 20th century.
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Sep 5, 2022 03:13
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Cythereal posted:Guild Wars was made by a Korean developer Arenanet isn't Korean, they're American. Their owners and GW's publisher NCSoft is Korean but it's not the same thing.
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Sep 5, 2022 03:19
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Cantha still looks pretty drat Chinese in GW2, so I'm not sure if China with Korean names painted over the top is any better than China with Japanese names painted over the top. And yeah, ArenaNet are American anyway.
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Sep 5, 2022 03:25
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Argas posted:Arenanet isn't Korean, they're American. Their owners and GW's publisher NCSoft is Korean but it's not the same thing. Ah, my mistake. I thought Anet was mainly Korean as well.
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Sep 5, 2022 03:28
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To me, the weirdest thing is that Doma was 100% fantasy Japan until the expansion where you actually go there, where it's revealed that there's a different fantasy-Japan that is a completely separate place, and Doma is actually fantasy-China. It's like ALL Chinese aesthetics and geography and whatnot, except it also has samurai and ninja because those were introduced before they created Hingashi.
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Sep 5, 2022 03:33
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Yeah, I agree with Ibblebibble that Yanxia is mildly irritating for the same reasons. Even the architecture directly references some very distinct very specifically minority Chinese buildings except they're full of samurais and shinobus I guess  And yeah, it's not like the devs did this purposefully or with some nefarious intent, it just really runs against one of my personal hang ups lol Xun fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 03:50
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Begemot posted:To me, the weirdest thing is that Doma was 100% fantasy Japan until the expansion where you actually go there, where it's revealed that there's a different fantasy-Japan that is a completely separate place, and Doma is actually fantasy-China. i wonder if this is one of the last hiccups between the vague sketch of the story that they had in 2.x, compared to the clearly-defined lore and story trajectory that solidified around 3.2, that they just couldn't fix. doma was established as the home of samurai and ninjas and everyone has a japanese name, but also it's conquered by garlemald, but also now that we're introducing samurai we need a premise for its job quests that isn't super intimately tied to the MSQ and a non-ruined city to be the far eastern market board hub... and then this more discourse to be had on it come samurai and ninja job quests too
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Sep 5, 2022 03:54
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Mister Olympus posted:i wonder if this is one of the last hiccups between the vague sketch of the story that they had in 2.x, compared to the clearly-defined lore and story trajectory that solidified around 3.2, that they just couldn't fix. doma was established as the home of samurai and ninjas and everyone has a japanese name, but also it's conquered by garlemald, but also now that we're introducing samurai we need a premise for its job quests that isn't super intimately tied to the MSQ and a non-ruined city to be the far eastern market board hub... and then this In retrospect they should have made fantasy Polynesia and left Doma the sole not-Japan.
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Sep 5, 2022 03:56
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Fun Lorebook Fact: fantasy polynesia does exist in xiv, it's the lalafell homelands and one imagines we'll get there eventually just like roes are called out as coming from fantasy scandinavia, but we still haven't quite reached it Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 04:05
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FF has a history of not taking the real world divides too seriously with regards to cultural inspirations (Wutai in FF7 comes to mind). In my experience, cultural issues across Asian divides in Asian media tend to be overlooked unless you get too close to mirroring real-life effects or the political statement is seemingly blatant. They tend to be a lot more 0 or 100 about the whole thing vs Western perceptions of similar issues where they tend to notice the more subtle aspects about it.
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Sep 5, 2022 05:00
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Considering just how awful the imperialism of Garlemald is portrayed in this expansion than anything that came before, I kind of do legitimately wonder if there was an actual, particular authorial intent to convey a message about reckoning with just how terrible Imperial Japan was to it’s conquered territories, instead of just a catch-all for all empires throughout human history.
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Sep 5, 2022 05:10
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Sanguinia posted:But it’ll take more than clothes to pull this one off! These are wounded and suspicious people, and to get them to drop their guard will take a portion of Kheris’ cunning. NO! All her cunning… Brilliant! Why didn't my WoL think of that..
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Sep 5, 2022 05:10
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Pointed ears, alpine coat, obsession with salt, it all checks out.
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Sep 5, 2022 05:12
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I mean the really weird thing about Yanxia is if you use the English VA almost everyone talks with these very strong British accents. It's like watching a dubbed Shaw Bros. movie sometimes.
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Sep 5, 2022 05:13
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This conversation is kind of amusing to me because I've been pondering a lot of these exact lines of thought for weeks. Like I mentioned:Sanguinia posted:I will [address the topic of Yanxia/Doma being this unexpected Japan/China hybrid instead of the presumed Fantasy Japan]. But not for a while yet. There are some things I want to see and still some thinking for me to do on the puzzle pieces I've gathered before I'll feel ready to discuss it. Its good to know that I've been thinking along the right lines of inquiry based on everyone's comments, at least. Should be some interesting discussion when I get there..
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Sep 5, 2022 06:40
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Doma is pretty funny, because it IS Japan with a whole lot of China influences, which was absolutely a Japan. That makes it your third Japan that you've visited so far in Othard. Hingashi is Edo Period Japan, Sui-no-Sato is Heian Period Japan, and Doma is Nara Period Japan. Every zone has had a different Japan. Stormblood: Whoops, All Japans!
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Sep 5, 2022 06:52
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ProfessorCirno posted:Doma is pretty funny, because it IS Japan with a whole lot of China influences, which was absolutely a Japan. That makes it your third Japan that you've visited so far in Othard. Hingashi is Edo Period Japan, Sui-no-Sato is Heian Period Japan, and Doma is Nara Period Japan. Every zone has had a different Japan. Stormblood: Whoops, All Japans! Except for also Mongolia
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Sep 5, 2022 07:29
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I agree that this weird China-Japan thing that Doma is is, well, weird, but I choose to blame it entirely on Kugane's existence, because I hate Kugane.
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Sep 5, 2022 08:01
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Maxwell Lord posted:I mean the really weird thing about Yanxia is if you use the English VA almost everyone talks with these very strong British accents. It's like watching a dubbed Shaw Bros. movie sometimes. I mean, this probably has more to do with FFXIV using British voice actors in general, rather than the usual pool of American anime VAs.
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Sep 5, 2022 08:29
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Maxwell Lord posted:Except for also Mongolia Well they certainly tried
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Sep 5, 2022 09:42
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My pet theory is that they established Doma as fantasy Japan in 2.xx, but then realized that they really wanted to depict a fantasy Edo because that's basically a guilty pleasure when Stormblood was in the works. So they invent Hingashi, section it off with a sakoku degree, then run back to Doma and call it the
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Sep 5, 2022 11:13
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Regalingualius posted:Considering just how awful the imperialism of Garlemald is portrayed in this expansion than anything that came before, I kind of do legitimately wonder if there was an actual, particular authorial intent to convey a message about reckoning with just how terrible Imperial Japan was to it’s conquered territories, instead of just a catch-all for all empires throughout human history. I do wonder, since some of the aspects of how Garlemald is written seem to draw specifically from the history of Japan. I just don't have enough knowledge myself to really go deeper than "huh that seems familiar". StB is very much the deep dive on Imperialism Bad expansion, though, so them going for close to home imperial atrocity wouldn't surprise me at all.
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Sep 5, 2022 11:27
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Also, let's not forget that one cash shop outfit debacle. If I remember the drama right, it was another schoolgirl uniform - based on what the Japanese occupation government of Korea during WW2 made children wear.
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Sep 5, 2022 12:03
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Cythereal posted:Also, let's not forget that one cash shop outfit debacle. If I remember the drama right, it was another schoolgirl uniform - based on what the Japanese occupation government of Korea during WW2 made children wear. Not even a schoolgirl, it was both male and female. Granted that's usually because in Japan it's just an old era uniform but for the rest of Asia it represents that. SMT3 HD had a similar issue where in parts of Asia they removed the Raidou Kuzunoha content because he's wearing that style.
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Sep 5, 2022 12:07
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ProfessorCirno posted:Doma is pretty funny, because it IS Japan with a whole lot of China influences, which was absolutely a Japan. That makes it your third Japan that you've visited so far in Othard. Hingashi is Edo Period Japan, Sui-no-Sato is Heian Period Japan, and Doma is Nara Period Japan. Every zone has had a different Japan. Stormblood: Whoops, All Japans! Ehhhhh, Doman architecture doesn't look very Nara period to me. Feels more Tang dynasty. Cythereal posted:Also, let's not forget that one cash shop outfit debacle. If I remember the drama right, it was another schoolgirl uniform - based on what the Japanese occupation government of Korea during WW2 made children wear. The uniform by itself was perfectly normal in Japan, it was the standard school uniform for the era for Japanese students too. It takes on a different context in Korea where it was forced onto Korean children as part of the cultural genocide attempt by Imperial Japan, which is where the controversy comes from.
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Sep 5, 2022 12:08
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Cythereal posted:Also, let's not forget that one cash shop outfit debacle. If I remember the drama right, it was another schoolgirl uniform - based on what the Japanese occupation government of Korea during WW2 made children wear. Specifically it was based on the school uniforms Japan used itself during that time period, which yeah has baggage in Korea.
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Sep 5, 2022 12:16
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Regalingualius posted:Considering just how awful the imperialism of Garlemald is portrayed in this expansion than anything that came before, I kind of do legitimately wonder if there was an actual, particular authorial intent to convey a message about reckoning with just how terrible Imperial Japan was to it’s conquered territories, instead of just a catch-all for all empires throughout human history. Garlemald borrows aesthetics from a variety of totalitarian empires, but I think a case can be made that its biggest influence is Imperial Japan
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Sep 5, 2022 14:20
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