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Tender Bender posted:This is what the show is, tbh, it's a character drama not a medieval war simulator. The crab-feeder was just a plot device to fuel a conflict for the main characters. He wasn't going to be the Season Villain or anything. Cool so we just watch the show in a completely detached way because there are a handful of main characters and we need to view everything through the lens of actors and thousands of other people just being plot devices, not people living in the world they're depicting. It's not any kind of living world to be immersed in at all, and anything about the show that doesn't add up if you use your brain for two seconds should be discarded because they aren't trying to make a show with any kind of verisimilitude. How silly of me to want a little more out of 'prestige tv'
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Sep 5, 2022 15:52
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Definitely echoing the people who point out that it's a show about characters, not war. Which is also why the show is actually good. If the people who want big battles and epic villains had their way, we'd be right back to season 7 or 8 GoT.roomtone posted:Boring hunt scenario that went on forever just to establish rhaenyra is pissed off which was done 2 minutes unlimited shrimp posted:She's 17 and wasn't raised to be heir so I think the bigger misstep is she doesn't have anyone around advising her. She needs a Varys or Littletinger to point out that she doesn't need to win every heart, she just needs enough allies that a civil war is too costly.
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Sep 5, 2022 15:56
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Justin Credible posted:Cool so we just watch the show in a completely detached way because there are a handful of main characters and we need to view everything through the lens of actors and thousands of other people just being plot devices, not people living in the world they're depicting. It's not any kind of living world to be immersed in at all, and anything about the show that doesn't add up if you use your brain for two seconds should be discarded because they aren't trying to make a show with any kind of verisimilitude. How silly of me to want a little more out of 'prestige tv' Yes, extras in tv shows and movies are plot devices, especially extras that are army grunts. You weeping we didn't learn more about that Uruk-Hai that Gimli kills with a throwing axe in a one second shot? Maybe he had a deep internal life. Desperate for a spinoff about the sword guy Indiana Jones shoots? He learned swordplay to support his kids! Especially in a universe that's explicitly focused on feudal nobility as heartless, worthless assholes far beyond even actual feudal nobility.
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Sep 5, 2022 16:07
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Also crab guy isn't set up as some sort of mystery, they spell out in a previous episode that he's an agent of a foreign power
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Sep 5, 2022 16:08
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Justin Credible posted:Cool so we just watch the show in a completely detached way because there are a handful of main characters and we need to view everything through the lens of actors and thousands of other people just being plot devices, not people living in the world they're depicting. It's not any kind of living world to be immersed in at all, and anything about the show that doesn't add up if you use your brain for two seconds should be discarded because they aren't trying to make a show with any kind of verisimilitude. How silly of me to want a little more out of 'prestige tv' No, what I said was this is a character drama so it's silly of you to be annoyed that the show focuses on the main characters and their feelings instead of ten episodes fleshing out the tactical threat posed to the dragonlords by a pirate named The Crab Feeder.
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Sep 5, 2022 16:08
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The show is fine for what it is, but it is amazing how far we've come from the original GRRM premise. The whole thing that launched game of thrones was that he wanted to do Lord of the Rings with real world material and political conditions. Sure, this lord is noble and good, but in a medieval setting his armies still need to eat, so he will be either plundering the territories he conquers or he will be making deals with less than savory characters for food, or strategic access, or whatever. But of course, a show like that makes pretty much every lord and lady pretty unlikable. So in GoT the show they make the Stark kids "not-nobility" so we have someone to root for (and the books just stop because there isn't a way to make you not wish all the lords dead). And then we get to this, where the show essentially makes a prince into Rambo fighting commoners that are caricatures of villains. Which, again, fine for a fantasy series. It's a fun fantasy series. The visuals are great. But it's not the "serious about realpolitik fantasy world" that made GoT different from a thousand other fantasy series (and to be sure, GoT itself moved away from that once it became clear that it would make it difficult for people to care about the lives of nobility).
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Sep 5, 2022 16:09
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Yeah, I thought the Hunt scene had a lot of character development and some nice visual symbolism. Just a lot of good character work there. The crab people were never important except to serve as a conflict point where Daemon would either shine or not. And his brother finally coming to bail him out was the do or die moment that forced his hand. The arrows and such were a little silly, but the show was trying to make him look cool and to make a case why he'd get a ton of respect and be a threat to civil war. What I got from the dragon stuff in the battle was that Daemon showing up dragon-less meant that it would draw out crabmaster since Daemon was known to be the guy riding the dragon around, not anyone else.
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Sep 5, 2022 16:09
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Llamadeus posted:Also crab guy isn't set up as some sort of mystery, they spell out in a previous episode that he's an agent of a foreign power Of course, dragging the grayscale dude out by your hands seems like an ill-thought-out plan, which might also say something about Daemon as a character.
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Sep 5, 2022 16:21
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I'm really pleasantly surprised with this show. I wanted to dislike it, but I find the dialogue actually interesting to listen to and it does feel very Game of Thrones while still being something new.
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Sep 5, 2022 16:30
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Sorry wrong thread
Jezza of OZPOS fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 16:37
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I like the nice father daughter moment with Viserys and Rhaenyra where he tells her to find a spouse that she likes, just like what he did that time he picked her best friend to marry.
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Sep 5, 2022 16:43
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runaway dog posted:I like the nice father daughter moment with Viserys and Rhaenyra where he tells her to find a spouse that she likes, just like what he did that time he picked her best friend to marry.
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Sep 5, 2022 16:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, the way it is handled in the show seems pretty appropriate for it not being a proper war. They emphasize that he is more of an issue to a specific part of the realm, that he's functionally just a privateer working for a foreign power, and that the king can afford to just ignore for years - and the actual threat to Daemon is losing face as a pretender to the throne, unlike the stakes of the GoT civil war(s). Mr. Crabs getting unceremoniously killed off-screen just underlines that fact. Yea, there's a reason why everyone is like "Eh the war isn't going well, who cares?" It's a war, sure, but it's not an existential threat to the targs and never was. I will say the battle is pretty absurdly framed and would have been better if it had been scaled back by half, instead of Daemon dodging hundreds of arrows and killing dozens of men with a single sword swipe. But the broad strokes of what happened work for me.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:00
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You're gonna marry my best friend, huh? Well, how do you like me marrying yours??! *Rhaenyra marries Otto Hightower*
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Sep 5, 2022 17:04
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Pobrecito posted:Look, the battle set up was a little silly but we still got to see Corlys just absolutely wrecking poo poo with a polearm, so it was cool in my book. More polearms! Halberds and poleaxes and the like are terrifying and cool
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Sep 5, 2022 17:04
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Vegetable posted:Viserys would probably be really happy with that.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:14
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Tender Bender posted:No, what I said was this is a character drama so it's silly of you to be annoyed that the show focuses on the main characters and their feelings instead of ten episodes fleshing out the tactical threat posed to the dragonlords by a pirate named The Crab Feeder. Of course a hyperbolic response to any criticism of how physical stuff interacts. I've noticed a lot of this kind of pushback lately - to where if you say 'this threw me out of what's going on because it's silly and not reality bending - what's going on is reality snapping' is responded with 'well it's not TRYING to have anything believable at all in the physical space, it's not about that!'. It's a garbage position to take, but I can see how it's appealing - you never can be assailed in that position, because you can just double down forever. With the surely million, maybe 2+ bucks they spent on the two crab island battle scenes, you're taking the position that it literally doesn't matter how they portrayed it. It's asinine. Asking for the internal logic of how these things work in a physical world that behaves pretty much exactly like our own plus magic and dragons is really not a lot, and does not mean I want to have it stretched into a ten episode epic, for gently caress's sake. Just in the amount of time they took to portray it, it could have been done with some semblance of 'okay, this adds up'.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:15
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joepinetree posted:The show is fine for what it is, but it is amazing how far we've come from the original GRRM premise. The showrunners decided in season 3 or 4 of Game of Thrones that they'd just lean into "Lord of the Rings with nudity" instead of telling the kind of story the books did. You just can't have a wide audience without badass battles and one liners and stuff. Look at how many people love episodes like Hardhome with a ridiculous one on one sword battle between Jon Snow and the Big Bad in the middle of mass slaughter. From what I can see, most people look forward to the battle scenes the most, which is definitely not the case with the books. The closest the shows have ever come to the books in the battle episodes is the Blackwater one, where more emphasis is put on the horrors of war, the preparation for the battle, and making it so both sides are human beings who will suffer after it is over. There are characters on both sides of the war you want to live and die, and it just has a sense of dread that comes from knowing you're watching something that's not going to pull its punches. Daemon in this show is kind of the perfect later series Game of Thrones character. He's like a slightly more subdued yet badass Ramsay Bolton. Justin Credible posted:Of course a hyperbolic response to any criticism of how physical stuff interacts. I've noticed a lot of this kind of pushback lately - to where if you say 'this threw me out of what's going on because it's silly and not reality bending - what's going on is reality snapping' is responded with 'well it's not TRYING to have anything believable at all in the physical space, it's not about that!'. It's a garbage position to take, but I can see how it's appealing - you never can be assailed in that position, because you can just double down forever. They are making it very clear that right out of the gate with this one it's gonna be a good guy vs. bad guy type of show. The bad guy doesn't really matter, they're not really people. They're like orcs. I'm just surprised that they are repeating some of the ridiculous stuff from the last 2 seasons of Game of Thrones so early with the dragons. Mullitt fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 17:19
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Darko posted:
what are you talking about, I only tuned in for big-bad Mr. Krabbs. Now I can't watch this dumb show anymore, you can keep your tits and dragons. And a double gently caress you that we only have one more episode with Milly Bobby Frown.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:27
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Manic X posted:Milly Bobby Frown. heh
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Sep 5, 2022 17:30
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Justin Credible posted:Of course a hyperbolic response to any criticism of how physical stuff interacts. I've noticed a lot of this kind of pushback lately - to where if you say 'this threw me out of what's going on because it's silly and not reality bending - what's going on is reality snapping' is responded with 'well it's not TRYING to have anything believable at all in the physical space, it's not about that!'. It's a garbage position to take, but I can see how it's appealing - you never can be assailed in that position, because you can just double down forever. I don't really know how to reply to someone who opens by complaining about my "hyperbolic response" and then makes a post full of hyperbolic misrepresentation of what I said. So I'm sorry you don't like this show, and whether you keep watching or don't, I hope you find happiness.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:43
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Mullitt posted:They are making it very clear that right out of the gate with this one it's gonna be a good guy vs. bad guy type of show. The bad guy doesn't really matter, they're not really people. They're like orcs. I'm just surprised that they are repeating some of the ridiculous stuff from the last 2 seasons of Game of Thrones so early with the dragons. What? No. This show is going to be about the Targaryen rulers fighting each other. It's not going to be about Targaryens fighting a bunch of "bad guys". You're not wrong that the show isn't portraying the crab feeder pirates as people, but they are not "the bad guys." They're the lembas bread crumbs that Sam and Frodo argue about.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:51
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Tender Bender posted:What? No. This show is going to be about the Targaryen rulers fighting each other. It's not going to be about Targaryens fighting a bunch of "bad guys". You're not wrong that the show isn't portraying the crab feeder pirates as people, but they are not "the bad guys." They're the lembas bread crumbs that Sam and Frodo argue about. They were the bad guys so far. Can’t really speak to what happens in episodes that haven’t happened yet. You can’t really have cool epic battle scenes without good guys and bad guys and faceless hordes though, so that’s the direction the writing will always come from.
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Sep 5, 2022 18:01
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You're gonna marry my best friend, huh? Well, how do you like me marrying yours??! *Rhaenyra marries Otto Hightower* I honestly thought Otto was going to put himself forward before he suggested the baby brother.
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Sep 5, 2022 18:02
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Mullitt posted:They were the bad guys so far. Can’t really speak to what happens in episodes that haven’t happened yet. Is the conflict in the first three episodes driven by the Targaryen Dynasty vs The Crab Feeder? Is that your takeaway from the three episodes we watched? Hint: it's not even the driving force behind the actual battle scenes featuring the Crab Feeder.
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Sep 5, 2022 18:10
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I thought when Rhaenyra made eyes at Criston that would’ve gone somewhere. Instead we get a bad cgi pig for some reason What was the point of that? Or of anything in this show
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Sep 5, 2022 18:24
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Tender Bender posted:Is the conflict in the first three episodes driven by the Targaryen Dynasty vs The Crab Feeder? Is that your takeaway from the three episodes we watched? No, it’s just an excuse so far to have epic battle scenes. This is stupid to me, and in the future they won’t have them around to have epic battle scenes and instead will have different faceless hordes to mow down. There will be lots of battles because the dragons are cool when they do battles.
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Sep 5, 2022 18:30
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:I thought when Rhaenyra made eyes at Criston that would’ve gone somewhere. Instead we get a bad cgi pig for some reason To show you that she and Criston have gotten close over the years in between episodes and she's come to rely on him emotionally to fill the void left by Alicent (shown to now be very distant from her in the scene with the bard).
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Sep 5, 2022 18:31
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:I thought when Rhaenyra made eyes at Criston that would’ve gone somewhere. Instead we get a bad cgi pig for some reason I know that setting up future plots and taking time out for character development and interaction were two of the many things late-season GoT threw out in favor of MORE BADASS FIGHT SCENE WOOOO, so it’s going to take time to readjust.
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Sep 5, 2022 18:46
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Everything in that episode was fantastic except for that one drawn back CG shot of the streets of King's Landing with a handful of peasants copied and pasted onto it.
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Sep 5, 2022 18:48
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:I thought when Rhaenyra made eyes at Criston that would’ve gone somewhere. Instead we get a bad cgi pig for some reason I think her killing the boar was supposed to be contrasted with the king killing the stag. She's in serious danger, and ends up killing it with a small blade. The King has the stag basically tied down and still does a poo poo job of killing it. He sees her back at camp covered in blood with the dead boar in tow. He realizes that she is strong enough to be queen.
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Sep 5, 2022 18:48
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Chemtrailologist posted:I think her killing the boar was supposed to be contrasted with the king killing the stag. She's in serious danger, and ends up killing it with a small blade. The King has the stag basically tied down and still does a poo poo job of killing it. He sees her back at camp covered in blood with the dead boar in tow. He realizes that she is strong enough to be queen. I like this take. And the King is right. We have seen on a couple of occasions now that Rhaenyra doesn’t gently caress around and is made of some stern stuff.
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Sep 5, 2022 19:04
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Mullitt posted:They were the bad guys so far. Can’t really speak to what happens in episodes that haven’t happened yet. I think the response is more about your bad guy phrasing. This kind of show doesn't really have bad guys except when super obvious will ruin everything around them evil shows up like Ramsay. There aren't any White Walkers, which I'm now realizing people were maybe thinking Crabbypants was going to turn out to be as some overarching force or something. This show is Succession in Medeval Times. It's all about who you want to take over and why. This Faceless Horde served to give Daemon a little political boost to make him a force to be reckoned with, which is why he went there in the first place. But them being "bad guys" or not depends if you're rooting for Daemon to take over personally as opposed to wanting him to lose.
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Sep 5, 2022 19:06
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It's hilarious to watch that episode and see goons coming here to ask poo poo like "what is this show even about???". Just lol Paddy Considine is really great in the role of Viserys. I've never really seen a show depict how burdensome a kingship can be this effectively. He's worn down and it really does show. His conversations with Alicent and Raenyra were both incredible scenes. He's a decent man who just doesn't want to hurt the people he loves- but being king requires him to do so. "Ineffective goony king" isn't an archetype that most shows could make interesting, but this one has.
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Sep 5, 2022 19:11
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I like that Daemon just needed some Bulletin Board Material to finally win a multiyear war in one day.
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Sep 5, 2022 19:19
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Dear Mr. Hbo, the crabpeople and the crabfeeder in your show did not get enough airtime and I was very dismayed and appalled. I will not watch any of your shows.anymore and neither will my large adult sun. I wish you the best
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Sep 5, 2022 19:20
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Was crabfeeder supposed to have a plan? You're a poo poo pirate if people know where your base is and he didn't seem to be receiving reinforcements from the triarchy.
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Sep 5, 2022 20:24
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Baron Porkface posted:Was crabfeeder supposed to have a plan? You're a poo poo pirate if people know where your base is and he didn't seem to be receiving reinforcements from the triarchy. He wasnt a pirate, he was a privateer supported by the free cities to FIGHT piracy. Which was also an excuse to gently caress with westeros boats as well. It was basically just a lil proxy war.
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Sep 5, 2022 21:01
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:It's hilarious to watch that episode and see goons coming here to ask poo poo like "what is this show even about???". Just lol Yeah. He's absolutely killing it in that role. I liked how the marry who you love advice is great dad advice, but loving awful King advice to a shaky successor in GoT world.
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Sep 5, 2022 21:10
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The music that played when Rhaenyra returned to camp owned. That's my big takeaway.
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Sep 5, 2022 21:14
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