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I think it is worth remembering that people who traditionally severely dislike one on another, which includes Hikaru and Magnus or Hikaru and Eric Hansen are all agreeing here basically. Is there a chance that they are all paranoid GMs that wrongly see his recent rise in strength as suspect because of their own bias due to having known about the cheating on chess.com? Yes. But those interviews are imo incredibly damning to that theory.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:32
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I’ve seen some people theorizing that maybe Carlsen thinks Hans stole his prep. This doesn’t really make sense to me (and as far as I know nobody beyond random Redditors is suggesting it), but it got me wondering; why would that be unethical, anyway? It seems to me that if players don’t want their prep stolen, they can always just do it themselves.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:40
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nrook posted:I’ve seen some people theorizing that maybe Carlsen thinks Hans stole his prep. This doesn’t really make sense to me (and as far as I know nobody beyond random Redditors is suggesting it), but it got me wondering; why would that be unethical, anyway? It seems to me that if players don’t want their prep stolen, they can always just do it themselves. These would be private files that Carlsen either prepared himself or were prepared by someone who signed a contract (with NDA) to work for him. This means the files were either accessed by somehow hacking team Carlsen, or someone on team Carlsen shared the files in contravention of the NDA. It's roughly equivalent to high tech sign stealing in baseball, or illegally recording practice sessions (the Patriots in the NFL were accused of this, no?), though maybe slightly more severe.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:45
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vis a vis the Super GM being unable to explain his position and/or provide analysis/sidelines on a game he just played, it's absolutely bonkers. These games are so engrained in high level players' brains that it shouldn't even be a discussion, just a flat out retelling. When even a lower level guy like a Levy can do three blindfolded games (against cans, mind you) simultaneously and recall position/moves/everything about all three games at the same time, you'd expect a much better player on the heels of the most important and incredible win of his career to be able to spout out endless analysis of the game I know that noone else is doubting this, so I'm just yelling at the void. But I want to post in what will be a huge scandal as time rolls on (either cheating OR not)
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Sep 6, 2022 18:49
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Omnikin posted:vis a vis the Super GM being unable to explain his position and/or provide analysis/sidelines on a game he just played, it's absolutely bonkers. These games are so engrained in high level players' brains that it shouldn't even be a discussion, just a flat out retelling. When even a lower level guy like a Levy can do three blindfolded games (against cans, mind you) simultaneously and recall position/moves/everything about all three games at the same time, you'd expect a much better player on the heels of the most important and incredible win of his career to be able to spout out endless analysis of the game In fairness I can imagine being in a post-game interview in front of camera, in a studio, with hot lights on, and you know thousands of people are watching, and you know people think you cheated... the host is asking super pointed questions on purpose. Maybe you don't give the greatest interview of all time in that situation.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:55
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Is a super-GM getting incorrectly banned on chess.com a thing that happens routinely? I imagine there are going to be false positives but if you have already been caught cheating one or two times, it's pretty reasonable for people to question future performances. Getting put under the microscope is a pretty natural consequence of cheating in the past, even if there's an element of personal dislike which there also seems to be among the other high level players.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:05
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We may never have hard evidence, but there's a lot of reasons to be suspicious of Hans: Unable to show knowledge of his own positions beyond bullet-level analysis, history of online cheating, sudden and dramatic rise in strength after years of stagnation, general edgelord personality. Not definitive, but as others have said it mirrors patterns seen with other players who were later found to be cheating.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:12
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Eyes Only posted:general edgelord personality Morphy, Alekhine and Fischer leave the room in a huff.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:18
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If the evidence is he gave a weird interview and may have cheated online, which I still can't find official confirmation of, then that's just gossip about a teenager.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:30
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neaden posted:If the evidence is he gave a weird interview and may have cheated online, which I still can't find official confirmation of, then that's just gossip about a teenager. I feel like the concerns about the interviews are far more than "his demeanor was weird."
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Sep 6, 2022 19:32
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Also you will never find confirmation of cheating on chess.com. They have a specific policy to never release names or other details.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:34
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i watched hans stream during the early days of the pandemic and he’s basically a huge troll and mega awkward. An interview like that isn’t that far off the mark from what I’ve seen.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:36
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I don’t know whether Hans cheated or not, but I do know that Magnus made the sly allegation and now he has to come with the receipts proper.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:40
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nrook posted:I’ve seen some people theorizing that maybe Carlsen thinks Hans stole his prep. This doesn’t really make sense to me (and as far as I know nobody beyond random Redditors is suggesting it), but it got me wondering; why would that be unethical, anyway? It seems to me that if players don’t want their prep stolen, they can always just do it themselves. Also in terms of what people think, probably worth pointing out that STL Chess Club retweeted Hikaru promoting his edited video of his stream yesterday. Pretty much a subtle co-sign. Chromatics posted:Is a super-GM getting incorrectly banned on chess.com a thing that happens routinely?
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Sep 6, 2022 19:47
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Hand Knit posted:I feel like the concerns about the interviews are far more than "his demeanor was weird." Be specific then. What do you think is going on and why do you think it
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Sep 6, 2022 19:49
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...Hans?
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Sep 6, 2022 19:55
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I just feel super bad that such a great occasion for Hans, crossing 2700 by beating Magnus, is being tarnished by these accusations that have no concrete proof.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:59
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That's where I'm at too. Even if you're convinced that he's cheating, if there's no hard evidence what's the plan exactly now that you went public? If Magnus had gone to the organizers with suspicions maybe they could have done something, but now you can only hope he cracks and admits to it.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:10
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All this focus on postgame interviews just reminds me of the best postgame interview of all time courtesy of Vasyl Ivanchuk. This is the kind of GM poo poo that blows my mind. Also, super proud that I share Ivanchuk's approach to prep: "My preparation was, ok, I will play e4 and we will see what will happen."
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Sep 6, 2022 20:14
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Obviously he did go to the organizers, which is why they implemented harsher security and the 15 minute delay.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:14
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all I can really say is I hope we get another PIPI IN YOUR PAMPERS screed from someone
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Sep 6, 2022 20:19
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neaden posted:Be specific then. What do you think is going on and why do you think it The reason players like Nakamura are acting like the interview is such a condemnation is because Niemann seems to not understand the reasons for his own moves, or the positions for which he theoretically played. By analogy, he faceplanted when asked to show his work, so now people (with prior context) are taking that as reason to doubt that the work was really his. While not perfect, these elite level players have a very good sense of what is human and inhuman play because they have a very good ability to understand not just the ideas behind particular moves but also how those ideas flow from the features of a game. When they call a move (or play in general) inhuman this isn't just about the play's quality. It has to do with how the game doesn't really represent a coherent thought process, and moves depend on ideas that don't seem readily accessible to players under normal conditions. Given this, that players like Carlsen, Nakamura, Nepomniachtchi, and Firouzja (to say nothing or Ramirez, Yasser, Svidler and so on) believe there's a good chance he cheated based on his play, I think that gives us a good reason to believe that accusations of Niemann cheating are at least on-the-surface credible. Sub Par posted:All this focus on postgame interviews just reminds me of the best postgame interview of all time courtesy of Vasyl Ivanchuk. This is the kind of GM poo poo that blows my mind. I love how Sachdev has to keep changing hands on the microphone because her arms are getting tired but Ivanchuk just keeps going. Very happy that arguably the weirdest elite player is weird in a delightful way rather than a sinister one.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:44
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Hand Knit posted:While not perfect, these elite level players have a very good sense of what is human and inhuman play because they have a very good ability to understand not just the ideas behind particular moves but also how those ideas flow from the features of a game. When they call a move (or play in general) inhuman this isn't just about the play's quality. It has to do with how the game doesn't really represent a coherent thought process, and moves depend on ideas that don't seem readily accessible to players under normal conditions. Given this, that players like Carlsen, Nakamura, Nepomniachtchi, and Firouzja (to say nothing or Ramirez, Yasser, Svidler and so on) believe there's a good chance he cheated based on his play, I think that gives us a good reason to believe that accusations of Niemann cheating are at least on-the-surface credible. There were no typical computer moves played by Hans against Magnus. In fact, Naka is of the opinion that the moves were very normal. In my view, the allegations are based on whispers from the alleged chess.com ban and other potential instances of online cheating (says Hansen), the fact that his rating is improving rapidly, and the fact that there’s enough elo between the two players that Hans shouldn’t have won. They also point to the interview. Like you say, not showing his work. On the other hand, it’s equally plausible Hans is just a arrogant and overconfident zoomer. Here’s Jacob Aagaard’s view of that situation: quote:
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Sep 6, 2022 21:36
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And it looks like he's getting toasted today by Dominguez after playing a computer-prep move. I think what I've said is fundamentally right: top players have a familiar with how things should go, and if things seem wrong to them then we should take that as a reason to believe things are wrong. It's not conclusive on its own, and there are alternative explanations, but it's enough to say that the allegations against him aren't pure smoke.
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Sep 6, 2022 21:42
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Guys the solution was just posted in Chessbrah's chatquote:I have confirmed Hans was using a Bluetooth prostate massager to have moves relayed to him in Morse code. Please do not ask how I have done it, but just know I have now acquired the very device Hans was using. I can confirm it is very strong and after 1 hour of use, I am very tired myself. This fatigue might explain Hans’ inability to analyze the games in the post game interviews.
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Sep 6, 2022 22:25
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Actually Magnus was cheating in that match, this is all misdirection.
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Sep 6, 2022 23:24
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He was cheating but by using the “become a GM in a month” dude’s hand-rolled engine
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Sep 6, 2022 23:28
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Hans now being interviewed on the livestream. He's mad.
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Sep 6, 2022 23:51
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gret posted:Hans now being interviewed on the livestream. He's mad. Between this and AEW I'm about to discover if it's possible to overdose on other people's drama.
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Sep 6, 2022 23:52
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yikes
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Sep 6, 2022 23:59
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Holy poo poo this is amazing. Now calling out chess.com.
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Sep 6, 2022 23:59
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Hans’ interview was reasonable and his anger is justified imo. Now Magnus can say he wasn’t accusing him of anything, and even though most of this drama was driven by Nakamura, he’ll just hide behind “I never said he cheated. I just said there was some people who thought he was cheating.” The easiest explanation is Magnus got salty because he lost to someone him and his colleagues consider a joke. As a big Magnus fan myself, not a good look.
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Sep 7, 2022 00:13
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Hand Knit posted:Between this and AEW I'm about to discover if it's possible to overdose on other people's drama.
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Sep 7, 2022 00:16
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https://twitter.com/chess24com/status/1567287375184658435
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Sep 7, 2022 00:16
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Sub Par posted:All this focus on postgame interviews just reminds me of the best postgame interview of all time courtesy of Vasyl Ivanchuk. This is the kind of GM poo poo that blows my mind. This guy is so excited about the analysis of that f5 move that didn't even happen. It's charming to see how happy he was to have the game get weird. And the way he ends the interview lol
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Sep 7, 2022 00:23
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Remember when I said chess.com doesn't ban people unless they have evidence strong enough to take it to court? That means chess.com has evidence Hans has cheated on their platform more than what Hans admitted in that interview. Full stop.
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Sep 7, 2022 00:25
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Sub Rosa posted:Remember when I said chess.com doesn't ban people unless they have evidence strong enough to take it to court? That means chess.com has evidence Hans has cheated on their platform more than what Hans admitted in that interview. Full stop. I take it this is something you're familiar with from The World of Computer-aided Chess?
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Sep 7, 2022 00:26
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Sub Rosa posted:Remember when I said chess.com doesn't ban people unless they have evidence strong enough to take it to court? That means chess.com has evidence Hans has cheated on their platform more than what Hans admitted in that interview. Full stop. Oh cool, accusations are proof now, good to know.
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Sep 7, 2022 00:33
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Sub Rosa posted:Remember when I said chess.com doesn't ban people unless they have evidence strong enough to take it to court? That means chess.com has evidence Hans has cheated on their platform more than what Hans admitted in that interview. Full stop. I wouldn’t be surprised if lawyers become involved.
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Sep 7, 2022 00:34
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Here's the full interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJZuT-_kij0
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Sep 7, 2022 00:35
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