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Sub Rosa posted:Remember when I said chess.com doesn't ban people unless they have evidence strong enough to take it to court? That means chess.com has evidence Hans has cheated on their platform more than what Hans admitted in that interview. Full stop. Why is that? Is eating a chess.com ban likely to tank someone's career in that the best players play there?
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Sep 7, 2022 00:39
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Danny sometimes streams "State of Chess.com" streams that can include a section on fairplay. Which is where I'm pulling the "only if they have evidence strong enough to hold up in court" standard comes from. Being banned from chess.com is certainly something that would impact a player's reputation, and in terms of getting invitations to events, reputation is very important. And in terms of a career, getting invitations is very important.
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Sep 7, 2022 00:48
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neaden posted:Oh cool, accusations are proof now, good to know. Whatever chesscom has is proof enough for them. We don't know what exactly they have but I doubt they are taking this lightly.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:01
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Chromatics posted:Whatever chesscom has is proof enough for them. We don't know what exactly they have but I doubt they are taking this lightly. Sure, a company that just bought Magnus' chess app would never do something to make their cash cow happy, private companies always act in the interest of justice and fairness. I'm sure chess.com has secret proof that Hans cheated on an OTB tournament they didn't run but just won't reveal it.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:04
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https://twitter.com/HansMokeNiemann/status/1567301263267696640?s=20&t=0PyFSFPEislWg2EEqB3YPA
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Sep 7, 2022 01:05
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get their asses hans
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Sep 7, 2022 01:09
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neaden posted:Oh cool, accusations are proof now, good to know. that’s right
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Sep 7, 2022 01:13
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Sub Par posted:All this focus on postgame interviews just reminds me of the best postgame interview of all time courtesy of Vasyl Ivanchuk. This is the kind of GM poo poo that blows my mind. This was phenomenal to watch, thanks for sharing.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:21
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did he use his fake accent in the interview he did today or is he back to speaking in his normal style? The fake accent and the incoherent post game analysis is something that is weirding people out (obviously) but given that this guy is reputedly a massive troll I could see him doing that just to gently caress with the broadcast or because he thought it was funny lol. Like It's almost too far the other direction, because any pro player (up to and including players much weaker than Hans as noted in this thread) could give a better summary of their game than what he's been doing. I am more inclined to believe the reactions of the other top players in the tournament.. as pointed out, the cheating could literally be as simple as some sort of signal (electronic or otherwise) that lets him know when the opponent has made a poor move and there's something to be exploited. And as Eric Hansen mentioned just the knowledge that you are playing against someone who you believe to be cheating is more than enough to tilt you off your game and to make you play much weaker than your ability. Magnus has had embarrassing loses before and it's very likely that he's played people that he's believed to be cheating (one way or another) before and he's never withdrawn from a tournament. There is something up here for sure.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:25
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Niemann's long term troll job resulting in him getting himself banned from chess is among the funnier possibilities. Lets you know that goons are still out there.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:27
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neaden posted:Sure, a company that just bought Magnus' chess app would never do something to make their cash cow happy, private companies always act in the interest of justice and fairness. I'm sure chess.com has secret proof that Hans cheated on an OTB tournament they didn't run but just won't reveal it. Although they don't publicize the details, it's not like chess.com is using some super-double-secret algorithm to catch cheaters. The basics are well-known: does the selected move the top engine moves weirdly often, is the timing of the moves unusually lengthy even when only one move is reasonable, how is centipawn loss statistically distributed, how are move ranks statistically distributed, etc. There are AIs like Irwin that automate a lot of this. A GM who knows what playing a human GM "feels" like is usually pretty reliable too, although a tired and peevish GM could certainly get it wrong. So far no evidence has been presented in either direction, but the as-played moves in the tournament should give plenty of data that chess experts will probably be able to use pretty effectively to prove or eliminate the possibility of cheating.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:55
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Starsfan posted:I am more inclined to believe the reactions of the other top players in the tournament.. as pointed out, the cheating could literally be as simple as some sort of signal (electronic or otherwise) that lets him know when the opponent has made a poor move and there's something to be exploited. And as Eric Hansen mentioned just the knowledge that you are playing against someone who you believe to be cheating is more than enough to tilt you off your game and to make you play much weaker than your ability. That could literally be said about any player at any tournament. Lets go over some facts. 1. Carlsen has not actually accused Hans of cheating, or said he belives Hans cheated. 2. The organizers and arbitrators of the tournament have not accused Hans of cheating or said that they believe that he cheated. 3. Hans was searched every day of the tournament along with his possessions and nothing suspicious was discovered. 4. There are no spectators or coaches in the room with the players who could pass along a signal. 5. Based on their ratings there is about a 7% chance that Hans would win against Magnus with Magnus on white. You could, and I probably would, say the actual probability is lower then that but it isn't some huge unprecedented upset. 6. Hans' blitz rating OTB has stayed consistently slightly below his classical as they have both climbed: https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2093596/chart On the other hand we have insinuation, speculation, and a total absence of any evidence or anyone really willing to put their repuation on the line with an accusation, instead you have people like Hikaru using weasel language to talk about how other people are saying he's cheating without actually coming out and saying it themselves.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:57
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neaden posted:That could literally be said about any player at any tournament. I will put my reputation on the line.
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Sep 7, 2022 02:16
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jesus WEP posted:it has been a banner weekend for world champions having meltdowns
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Sep 7, 2022 04:44
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neaden posted:That could literally be said about any player at any tournament. 7. Hans admitted to cheating before but says he is now clean which in every sport is lolworthy.
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Sep 7, 2022 07:51
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I think chess.com closing Niemann’s account based on OTB events (if that’s truly the extent of it) would be insane if he spent 5 minutes in the toilet with a cell phone between moves. For *these* events? There’s no fuckin way. Feels like an overreaction to protect the playmagnus brand or w/e. Is he cheating? IMO, someone who has cheated online enough to get solidly busted twice is probably doing something nefarious now if I had to put money on it, but that could be as legal as “got someone to leak magnus’s prep”. Also IMO, gently caress him, should have permabanned him the second time. But I think everyone jumping to agree with what popular streamers are (almost) saying and treating it as a clear-cut proof of guilt is very bad. All these attacks/criticism are probably not great for any 19-year-old, let alone a chess dork. Misremembering the g3 game is an ugly misstep but if you were gonna lie, why not just say it’s a novelty you found in prep. I truly believe he thought he remembered it from that 2018 Magnus game; It’s not like that can’t be obviously checked. Anyway this is the most interesting chess has been in a while and they hooked me, I’ll tune in for the rest of the cup.
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Sep 7, 2022 07:54
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Lid posted:7. Hans admitted to cheating before but says he is now clean which in every sport is lolworthy. 8. they instituted a 15 minute delay on the game broadcasts the same day magnus dropped out
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Sep 7, 2022 07:58
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9.
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Sep 7, 2022 08:46
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lmao
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Sep 7, 2022 08:52
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Lid posted:7. Hans admitted to cheating before but says he is now clean which in every sport is lolworthy. I used to cheat. I mean I still do, but I used to, too.
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Sep 7, 2022 09:14
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Sep 7, 2022 09:22
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neaden posted:Sure, a company that just bought Magnus' chess app would never do something to make their cash cow happy, private companies always act in the interest of justice and fairness. I'm sure chess.com has secret proof that Hans cheated on an OTB tournament they didn't run but just won't reveal it. Somehow, out of everyone in this thread, you come across as the conspiracy theorist
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Sep 7, 2022 09:44
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Here is the chess.com State of Chess.com I talked about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRihGdvT20s&t=2626s I timestamped to where he starts the section of fairplay. 48:05 is where he says the specific line about being being willing to go to court. I can't say I'm sure he cheated OTB. But based on this chess.com is very very sure he has cheated more than what he admitted yesterday. And as a cheater, his credibility is so low that if he lied about how much and when he cheated online, it's easy to doubt he isn't also cheating about cheating OTB, especially with how suspicious some of the interviews have been.
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Sep 7, 2022 14:40
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jesus WEP posted:it has been a banner weekend for world champions having meltdowns V for Vegas posted:I used to cheat. I mean I still do, but I used to, too. Lol
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Sep 7, 2022 14:50
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neaden posted:Hans is a weird guy but without any proof all these people dogpiling him for cheating with accusations and innuendo is really gross. neaden posted:I'm sorry but is your theory basically they he has just always been cheating without getting caught, including when he's played blitz at a high level? And been able to fool everyone this entire time until he slipped up? As compared to the other explanation that he gave a weird and awkward interview just like all the weird and awkward interviews he gave at crypto cup for instance? neaden posted:If the evidence is he gave a weird interview and may have cheated online, which I still can't find official confirmation of, then that's just gossip about a teenager. neaden posted:Be specific then. What do you think is going on and why do you think it neaden posted:Oh cool, accusations are proof now, good to know. neaden posted:Sure, a company that just bought Magnus' chess app would never do something to make their cash cow happy, private companies always act in the interest of justice and fairness. I'm sure chess.com has secret proof that Hans cheated on an OTB tournament they didn't run but just won't reveal it. neaden posted:That could literally be said about any player at any tournament. Welcome to the chess thread! Whats your favorite opening to use? Mine is probably the Kings Indian Defense, but thats mostly because I dont have any other response to 1. d4
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Sep 7, 2022 18:06
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The correct response to 1.d4 is to go for a baltic and then when it doesn't work you swear to never play it again but forget before next time.
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Sep 7, 2022 18:20
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How many people actually play the good line against the Baltic and how many just go huh?
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Sep 7, 2022 18:28
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I've been playing 1.d4 exclusively for a year and had never heard of or encountered the Baltic so I would definitely recommend it
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Sep 7, 2022 18:56
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All I know for sure is that the issue is with the opening and not my skill.
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Sep 7, 2022 18:59
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Control Volume posted:Welcome to the chess thread! Whats your favorite opening to use? I like the Italian mostly. I'm still trying to focus on principals more than an opening though since at my level careful play still seems more important than spending too much time learning lines.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:03
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I have been playing 1d4 for a long time. I used to have a good response for the baltic, but I just noticed that I have forgotten it because I haven't seen the opening in a long time.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:03
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totalnewbie posted:How many people actually play the good line against the Baltic and how many just go huh? All I can say is I contribute to the latter
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Sep 7, 2022 19:06
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Pretty sure the good line is something like ... Bf5 cxd5 Bxb1 Qa4+ c6 Rxb1 I'm sure there's more.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:19
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Hand Knit posted:I love how Sachdev has to keep changing hands on the microphone because her arms are getting tired but Ivanchuk just keeps going. Very happy that arguably the weirdest elite player is weird in a delightful way rather than a sinister one. Someone in the comments timestamp linked all the mic hand changes. This is definitely one of those videos where reading the comments is actually encouraged.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:44
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I dunno, Hans seems like a genuine to me v v If he was actually able to somehow find a way to cheat in this tourney, that would probably be a bigger accomplishment than actually winning games in the tourney straight up Hikaru has been the biggest gatekeeper and drama chaser in the whole twitch and chess community since forever and it's hilarious seeing the meltdowns across the board
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Sep 7, 2022 20:46
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Control Volume posted:Welcome to the chess thread! Whats your favorite opening to use? I also switched to KID solely because it's the only opening that's felt good against the London, which is all people seem to want to play.
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Sep 7, 2022 20:48
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just play the englund. it's awful, but completely worth it for the like 10% of folks who premove 2. Bf4
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Sep 7, 2022 21:22
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Toxic Mental posted:I dunno, Hans seems like a genuine to me v In the interview I saw he says he cheated, when he was 12. That seems kind of irrelevant. I'm also generally inclined to believe stories of Mangus Carlsen being an rear end in a top hat. My sister once spent much of a night out in Oslo with him becuase one of her friends had some connection to him (family connection or friends, something like that) and she basically says he's the most loathsome person she's ever met.
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Sep 7, 2022 21:31
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Randarkman posted:In the interview I saw he says he cheated, when he was 12. That seems kind of irrelevant. He also admitted to cheating when he was 16, which is about two to three years ago. From the aftermath of the Anish Giri twitter "hack" drama, it sort of came out that Carlsen is an alcoholic with an addiction to strip clubs, and that this is considered an open secret. He really is the Mozart of chess.
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Sep 7, 2022 21:36
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| # ? May 31, 2024 18:36 |
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I have another question out of the consequences of all of this: apparently multiple (maybe even "many") titled players have had accounts banned for cheating, and though it's kept hush hush evidently it's not a secret among GMs. Isn't that a ticking time bomb, then? Because if past online cheating is accepted as suitable evidence, and these players are allowed to continue playing OTB with no repercussions as long as they admit to it and apologize, what's stopping this from happening again when one of them over-performs?
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Sep 7, 2022 21:40
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