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My memory is terrible lately. Someone may have shared this, but if they haven't here's a post where someone digs into what's wrong with GC https://thewebcomicsreview.tumblr.com/post/690822508741558272/youre-the-best-quasi-public-figure-i-cant-think Some people have put forward the article's thesis in here already for sure, but it's wild seeing the beat by beat of how hosed it all is. The core of the problem really does seem to be that nobody is having adventures anymore, they're just talking. One big thing is Paz's freakout. I remember thinking at the time that it was super lovely and out of character but I couldn't place why - then I realized it's because she is freaking out about something the comic hasn't shown the reader, and then we quickly learn she was mistaken. So all we get out of that scene is that Paz doesn't understand or communicate with Kat, Paz is a bully, and that she's not as nice as she's always seemed. It's not even Flanderization, it's just disregarding a pretty fleshed-out character's traits so that she can exposit to the Annies. worm girl fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 00:30
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worm girl posted:My memory is terrible lately. Someone may have shared this, but if they haven't here's a post where someone digs into what's wrong with GC https://thewebcomicsreview.tumblr.com/post/690822508741558272/youre-the-best-quasi-public-figure-i-cant-think It feels like the author is just speeding through a list of plot points and checking off boxes as quickly as possible UNTIL he gets to the poo poo with Loup Becomes A Dead Goose, at which point it just kind of grinds to a halt. Maybe that's the kind of stuff he finds compelling and wants to write now? I don't know.
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Sep 6, 2022 00:54
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I think the "the story can't take time to relax due to Loup" WAS accurate before the encounter with him, Shell, and Aata. Before then it was "gently caress, if we don't get Loup what he wants, he might kill everyone" - yeah it was an empty threat, but at the time Loup had mostly just stayed in the forest and threatened to do stuff without any actual direct confrontation - we didn't know how dangerous he actually was, so there was a bit more tension than there is now along with the feeling of "we need to get these items, priority number one." After that though, yeah there's no excuse as to why the pacing is how it is, beyond the assumed "Tom is just trying to get to the end already"
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Sep 6, 2022 01:09
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CodfishCartographer posted:I think the "the story can't take time to relax due to Loup" WAS accurate I know I'm the one who posted the article, but in my opinion, blaming Loup is a surface read and fails to get at the real problem. We saw with the group fighting the Wisps that it's still possible for them to have adventures during this crisis, they just have to be part of the crisis. There have been many incidents since - the meeting at the ocean shore, Loup destroying Reynard's body, and the two Annies fusing that sort of gesture at that the idea of adventure but stop short of including the kind of characterization and plot development we're used to seeing. The only thing that has to change while the court is under siege is that the adventures should relate to that. A monster of the week shows up. A part of the barrier starts to fail. The kids search for the missing adults. Any of these could, in about the same number of pages, be used as space to show us the ideas Tom's trying to get across rather than telling. Between Robot, Jerrek, Loup, Omega, the refugees, and the Star Ocean, there are so many concurrent plot threads running that exploring one while you let the rest develop should be a cakewalk.
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Sep 6, 2022 02:24
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worm girl posted:I know I'm the one who posted the article, but in my opinion, blaming Loup is a surface read and fails to get at the real problem. We saw with the group fighting the Wisps that it's still possible for them to have adventures during this crisis, they just have to be part of the crisis. There have been many incidents since - the meeting at the ocean shore, Loup destroying Reynard's body, and the two Annies fusing that sort of gesture at that the idea of adventure but stop short of including the kind of characterization and plot development we're used to seeing. The only thing that has to change while the court is under siege is that the adventures should relate to that. A monster of the week shows up. A part of the barrier starts to fail. The kids search for the missing adults. Any of these could, in about the same number of pages, be used as space to show us the ideas Tom's trying to get across rather than telling. Between Robot, Jerrek, Loup, Omega, the refugees, and the Star Ocean, there are so many concurrent plot threads running that exploring one while you let the rest develop should be a cakewalk. So it might be more of a problem of editing, then? Because it makes kind of sense if we are looking at something close to the first rough draft or iteration of a chapter that went straight into production, containing just the barebones of the necessary plot beats and dialogue to get things moving, and missing the fleshing out parts that one would go back and edit in when still working on fine tuning and improving the writing for the final script.
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Sep 6, 2022 03:05
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A good editor could fix all of this. In the abstract I think the ideas are fine, they're just jumbled up and falling flat because of their delivery.
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Sep 6, 2022 04:11
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worm girl posted:One big thing is Paz's freakout. I remember thinking at the time that it was super lovely and out of character but I couldn't place why - then I realized it's because she is freaking out about something the comic hasn't shown the reader, and then we quickly learn she was mistaken. So all we get out of that scene is that Paz doesn't understand or communicate with Kat, Paz is a bully, and that she's not as nice as she's always seemed. It's not even Flanderization, it's just disregarding a pretty fleshed-out character's traits so that she can exposit to the Annies. Have we even seen Paz since then?
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Sep 6, 2022 04:45
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She talked to Jones so she could move the plot along, and said she would apologize to Annie at some unknown date lol: https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2449
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Sep 6, 2022 04:52
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Man, remember when for a hot second it seemed like we'd have an interesting subplot of Paz's jealous paranoia possibly undermining Annie and Kat's friendship while also exploring how the Court is slowly corrupting her own worldview? instead we got a love triangle with the personality-stripped protagonist, a weird slightly-incestous doggod boy, and a former robot girl
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Sep 6, 2022 05:23
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Have we even seen robot girl since Our Hero Loup saved her from those nasties? I feel like that was the last time she existed in a meaningful way. I just went and checked and she was in the background/around for Loup Helping to Catch Loup and she got a couple bubbles of dialogue.
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Sep 6, 2022 06:20
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worm girl posted:My memory is terrible lately. Someone may have shared this, but if they haven't here's a post where someone digs into what's wrong with GC https://thewebcomicsreview.tumblr.com/post/690822508741558272/youre-the-best-quasi-public-figure-i-cant-think Man I get what they're saying but still it's funny for someone to say "the problem with GC is the pacing is too fast". I think you can be more precise and say that the two main issues are that: 1) Siddell's trying to go for specific plot beats that do not flow naturally from the characters' established personalities. 2) Most of the new developments and twists are delivered in a boring way: exposition, overly casual reactions and anticlimaxes. All things he's used more artfully in the past, but since the comic has had its status quo upholded in several important ways, and because as that Tumblr notes the twists and turns are actually piling up pretty fast, the audience has less patience for this particular schtick.
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Sep 6, 2022 07:08
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Potsticker posted:Have we even seen robot girl since Our Hero Loup saved her from those nasties? I feel like that was the last time she existed in a meaningful way. Yeah, she's been hanging around in the background looking jealous of Jerrek being obsessed with Annie.
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Sep 6, 2022 23:26
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At this point, even if this subplot is some manner of long-con I wouldn't be satisfied. Loup and Jerrek suck so bad that no amount of payoff can justify the screen time they've gobbled up.
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Sep 7, 2022 10:26
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Skippy McPants posted:At this point, even if this subplot is some manner of long-con I wouldn't be satisfied. Loup and Jerrek suck so bad that no amount of payoff can justify the screen time they've gobbled up. That point was crossed a long time ago, and I am saying that as someone who was initially 100% convinced that Annie knows Jerek is Loup and is baiting him for something.
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Sep 7, 2022 10:56
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Whoever said Annie's crush is going to be revealed as Ysengrin, I hadn't considered that would even be a thing and I hate that you're probably right.
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Sep 7, 2022 11:00
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I do think it's kind of interesting that the Jerrick personality is somewhat independent of Loup.
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Sep 7, 2022 12:08
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GunnerJ posted:I do think it's kind of interesting that the Jerrick personality is somewhat independent of Loup. i was thinking of this, jerrick wait hold on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV3CQSuxL50 there we go, jerrek seems kind of like that cute boy construct that coyote made to charm annie and freak out elgamore that one time. like coyote would do it as a bit but loup does it seriously and also to the point the construct develops into a whole personality, who also sucks.
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Sep 7, 2022 12:20
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If you reread this conversation so far Jerrek has gone in and out of his weird crush behaviors three times in the span of a minute. Why does Annie hang out with this guy
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Sep 7, 2022 13:57
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Fecha posted:If you reread this conversation so far Jerrek has gone in and out of his weird crush behaviors three times in the span of a minute. Why does Annie hang out with this guy Because the plot can't move forward unless she does.
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Sep 7, 2022 17:02
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Incredible, Annie doesn't care about this stuff at all. Let 'em go to their new planet, who cares. She's just mad that the reason they're leaving is that she's alive. God this whole thing is so weird, from how it's being presented to how Annie and everyone else is reacting. Like... are we supposed to think that this plan to take a bunch of people to a distant planet is bad? Good? Are we worried about Loup trying to derail it? Is he going to try and sneak in, and if so is that actually a problem for anyone? Every new revelation is both delivered with a shrug and met with a shrug, except by Loup who has all the intense emotions and has been the viewpoint character for several chapters now.
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Sep 7, 2022 21:12
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I don't think I have ever seen a story where the antagonist had to explain to the protagonist that they should care about the plot.
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Sep 8, 2022 00:39
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worm girl posted:I don't think I have ever seen a story where the antagonist had to explain to the protagonist that they should care about the plot. When you put it like that it actually sounds entertaining.
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Sep 8, 2022 01:02
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I think it would be really interesting to see Annie shift toward having emotional confidants beyond Kat. People nominally her own age, even. Her adult connections have withheld information quite a bit, which gets infuriating (esp. as a teenager) and it would make some sense to seek relationships with a more even footing. Which would raise interesting questions about her seeking those connections within the newly embodied robot-people, and whether she's really seeing them as peers or as a safe analogue. Unfortunately this itch is not getting scratched at all!! Jerrek seems to be around because the plot demands it. I agree with Tiny Meyers that Loup is poised to become one of the comic's main heroes, and we're supposed to be along for this redemption arc but oof it's really not sticking the landings right now.
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Sep 8, 2022 01:33
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Tom is really putting all his eggs in a basket with no bottom, with how invested he thinks we should be in Jerrek.
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Sep 8, 2022 01:54
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Tony’s been sent to the tall grass so I guess someone had to fill the gap he left behind
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Sep 8, 2022 02:04
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If Loup is the center of narrative focus, could that explain why everything is so jilted/awkward? Loup doesn't really understand human interaction and emotion and so we're seeing things through his lens, and thus... Nope. Just gonna stop right there.
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Sep 8, 2022 03:25
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worm girl posted:I don't think I have ever seen a story where the antagonist had to explain to the protagonist that they should care about the plot. Assassin's Creed Black Flag. A game where Assassins and Templars desperately try to get the protagonist to care about their forever war while he fucks around being a pirate.
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Sep 8, 2022 04:33
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It really doesn't help that Annie sometimes look like she is just patiently putting up with Jerrek's bs in their scenes together, but then the rest of their time together she looks like she is being sincerely genial with him. For example, what is with her expression in the second to last panel? She looks like she is channeling Jones, instead of confused or surprised. Like she is tolerating a lot from someone she doesn't know very well, but not in the way she behaves with other acquaintances or strangers.
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Sep 8, 2022 07:04
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worm girl posted:I don't think I have ever seen a story where the antagonist had to explain to the protagonist that they should care about the plot. This also kind of reminds me of the assassin's trilogy which is a lot of complex political shenanigans you'd from the perspective of someone who is not smart enough to understand any of it. Which is very good.
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Sep 8, 2022 09:34
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isasphere posted:It really doesn't help that Annie sometimes look like she is just patiently putting up with Jerrek's bs in their scenes together, but then the rest of their time together she looks like she is being sincerely genial with him. The most in character explanation is her absolutely not picking up on the crush, but then her expression would be different.
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Sep 8, 2022 09:37
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Bruceski posted:Assassin's Creed Black Flag. A game where Assassins and Templars desperately try to get the protagonist to care about their forever war while he fucks around being a pirate. how meta
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Sep 8, 2022 09:48
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Bruceski posted:Assassin's Creed Black Flag. A game where Assassins and Templars desperately try to get the protagonist to care about their forever war while he fucks around being a pirate. Fair, but Annie is not being a pirate. She's not doing anything.
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Sep 8, 2022 11:10
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a pirate who doesn’t do anything, you say
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Sep 8, 2022 12:12
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worm girl posted:I don't think I have ever seen a story where the antagonist had to explain to the protagonist that they should care about the plot. Cucumber Quest!
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Sep 8, 2022 13:18
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worm girl posted:I don't think I have ever seen a story where the antagonist had to explain to the protagonist that they should care about the plot. It happens in the Empire of Blood arc of Order of the Stick, but it happens because the genre-savvy antagonist believes he's the big bad, instead of part of a character development sideplot to the actual plot.
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Sep 8, 2022 13:25
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Jerrek, if you want to see Star Ocean you can just use an emulator...
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Sep 8, 2022 13:26
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To be fair, Annie having a very flat reaction to what should be extremely impactful events has been her thing a lot of the time back to the very beginning of this comic. Then again, she often has normal responses to stimulus. I can't say whether it's a deliberate characterization or a flaw of the comic, but it has always been there.
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Sep 8, 2022 16:54
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A.o.D. posted:To be fair, Annie having a very flat reaction to what should be extremely impactful events has been her thing a lot of the time back to the very beginning of this comic. Then again, she often has normal responses to stimulus. I can't say whether it's a deliberate characterization or a flaw of the comic, but it has always been there. Yeah, of course. Once she had her emotional scene with Kat when she admitted she missed her mom, and then her outburst with Mort about the blinker stone it became clear that something was going on there. Although she is emoting normally in the rest of this sequence. ...Unless this is signaling that she's briefly shutting down Tony style in that one panel when Jerrek grabs her hand there? Uugggh
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Sep 8, 2022 17:25
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isasphere posted:Yeah, of course. Once she had her emotional scene with Kat when she admitted she missed her mom, and then her outburst with Mort about the blinker stone it became clear that something was going on there. annie's entire deal in the comic is that she has two often conflicting sides to her personality she has to reconcile to the point where it became literal not once but twice. she's a lot like her dad, who is rigid and riddled with anxiety, but also a lot like her mom, who is outgoing and volatile.
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Sep 8, 2022 17:32
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Catgirl Al Capone posted:annie's entire deal in the comic is that she has two often conflicting sides to her personality she has to reconcile to the point where it became literal not once but twice. she's a lot like her dad, who is rigid and riddled with anxiety, but also a lot like her mom, who is outgoing and volatile. ya but then she ate her doppelgangers and showed no evidence of resolving that weird behavior or the conflict underpinning it, the lesser annies were just gone. so like, was it a metaphor really? was it a metaphor for that? A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Sep 8, 2022 |
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Sep 8, 2022 18:39
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