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fishhooked posted:Hey fellas, hows everyone's 2022 going? Midwest civil eng market is still as batshit crazy as 2021 for me. still in structural here; projects that aren't just emergency replacements or minor facility upgrades are starting to come back up for bids, but we're still pretty hampered by the price of steel and various shortages of specific steel sections
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Jun 6, 2022 01:14
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Automation/robots - the global backlog on drives and servo motors is killing us. It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't also for the fact that we have more demand for automation ever, especially as we continue our move into the medical industry. We can build the cells but nothing is moving 
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Jun 6, 2022 01:24
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I'm in-house automation for a medical mfg. We've been on a hiring freeze from fall until last week. Now we'll be trying to hire 1 a month thru 2022. People are leaving a little more often than before 2020 but not as often as last year. Component lead times are annoying but we are finding alternatives or making do most of the time. I have a vague memory of a quote that comes to mind in a lot of these cases: are we being rational or rationalizing? The company is having trouble keeping enough production workers so there is huge pressure to get machines in production so a lot of us are spending more time debugging than usual.
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Jun 6, 2022 07:02
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Also automation, at a machine OEM for food/bev: Starting to get concerned. On the plus side, corporate approved us for a near $5M capex so we can, you know, manufacture things we need to generate revenue ever since one of our WWII-era machines died on us (in addition to a few other key pieces of equipment that are still being hashed out). On the down side, I'm writing code for machines that I probably can't actually execute for a few months now. The one machine I was supposed to have software updates for last December, but since we sold our prototype to a customer I can't do jack poo poo, and the replacement prototype is sitting half built in the shop. The other machine is supposed to have all the parts here by the end of this month, but lol if that's happening. But I'm not done with the code for that so it's all good! Worryingly, there are no other real machines in the pipeline... not that we won't have anything to do, because we never obsolete poo poo so every few months we're scrambling to find substitute parts for an ancient machine that we can't get things for... but usually there's a 3-5 year plan, and that seems lacking right now. also lmao of our dozen or so engineers, 1 retired last December (my boss), and like 4 more will retire in less than a year. So maybe I'll be lucky and if we do have any downsizing it'll be via attrition. Demand hasn't dried up, but our ability to meet demand is just gone on account of the supply chain issues. Oh and also we changed our ERP system and simultaneously had a bunch of turnover in purchasing, so even if parts were available we couldn't order them to save our lives.
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Jun 6, 2022 13:21
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Oh man skimming through this thread I dont know if I should be more or less worried. I'm a machinist considering going back to school again for engineering. Our shop is also super slow atm and bleeding personnel, but I thought it was just us being fuckups. Still considering school again just because I would like to make more money, machinists seem to top out at the base pay of engineers unless Google is a liar.
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Jun 6, 2022 14:44
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I've noticed boomers who were "close to retirement" when I graduated in 2006 are actually retiring now. But yeah people want to spend money on new hardware and are stuck with 6-12 mo lead times, which is really annoying. it's really hard to properly schedule the work timelines.
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Jun 6, 2022 17:18
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Turbinosamente posted:Oh man skimming through this thread I dont know if I should be more or less worried. I'm a machinist considering going back to school again for engineering. Our shop is also super slow atm and bleeding personnel, but I thought it was just us being fuckups. Still considering school again just because I would like to make more money, machinists seem to top out at the base pay of engineers unless Google is a liar. We pay civil engineers about $72K out of school. I work for an investor owned utility (gas and power) so we pay usually on the lower side of things. A person with 10 years is sitting around $115K. (poor performs around $100K, high performers up around $130K). Just as one data point. I have a hard time hiring though as they can make more consulting.
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Jun 6, 2022 17:34
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spwrozek posted:We pay civil engineers about $72K out of school. I work for an investor owned utility (gas and power) so we pay usually on the lower side of things. A person with 10 years is sitting around $115K. (poor performs around $100K, high performers up around $130K). Just as one data point. I have a hard time hiring though as they can make more consulting. Jives with what I'm seeing in job postings and the like locally, about 65k or so for entry level positions. I only make 35k after 6 years and have had my journeyman cert for about a year. And you know, would like to not be sweating bullets at the possibility of buying a house. Still very much in the research phase of this, and figuring out how the hell to pay for more school to do it.
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Jun 6, 2022 17:49
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spwrozek posted:We pay civil engineers about $72K out of school. I work for an investor owned utility (gas and power) so we pay usually on the lower side of things. A person with 10 years is sitting around $115K. (poor performs around $100K, high performers up around $130K). Just as one data point. I have a hard time hiring though as they can make more consulting. Is this "Fresh BS" out of school or "MS/PhD with FE" out of school? Survey numbers my school always posted had Civil BS at the bottom of the new-grad pay scale, and Chem E BS at the top (almost 2x what Civils were reporting). I was always under the impression that a Civil eng degree didn't get you very far without a PE and/or an advanced degree. Turbinosamente posted:Jives with what I'm seeing in job postings and the like locally, about 65k or so for entry level positions. I only make 35k after 6 years and have had my journeyman cert for about a year. And you know, would like to not be sweating bullets at the possibility of buying a house. Still very much in the research phase of this, and figuring out how the hell to pay for more school to do it. The type of engineering you go for matters a lot. For a machinist I would expect Mechanical? Should be a decent amount of jobs available with just a BS. As much as I gripe about it, automation/industrial equipment is a pretty safe field right now, especially on the electrical/controls side. Supply chain issues are causing a lot of grief, but once those settle out there's going to be a lot of pent-up demand for equipment upgrades/repair/etc. that got postponed. Don't know much about the mechanical side, but every job I've worked they never seem to suffer for lack of work. Having a machinist background would be beneficial since "design parts that can actually be built" is a key skill. edit: when looking at STEM degree salaries, keep in mind the field and where the jobs are. Chem E is going to have a lot of plant jobs that are stressful and long hours, or worse remote oil rig type things. Computer Science is going to be super biased by Silicon Valley's inflated paychecks, which you'll never find in the rest of the country (and even if you're in silicon valley you'll have a tough time paying for basic living expenses even on $100k). DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 18:45
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DaveSauce posted:Is this "Fresh BS" out of school or "MS/PhD with FE" out of school? Fresh out of school with a BS. Civil, Electrical, or Mechanical doesn't matter on the degree. Technically the range goes down to $63K but the last fresh hire I saw in early 2021 was $68K. We don't let anyone advance without FE and PE. So you can be an Engineer 1 out of school, need a FE and years of experience to get to Staff Engineer, need a PE and years to get to Senior Engineer. We also don't pay different based on location... We have people in Minneapolis, Denver, Eau Claire Wisconsin, and Amarillo Texas. Good on pay to live in Amarillo...not so much on life though. We just increased all Engineer 1 and staff pay 13% and Seniors 7% based on a pay inequity study by HR.
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Jun 6, 2022 19:02
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I can make an effort post with more specifics about my situation later, but yeah my first thought was electrical until I realized I was being an idiot and mechanical would be the better/more lateral move. It looked like there were more opportunities for mechanical as well. It take it it's a four year bachelors or bust type situation, that a 2 year associates is a waste of time and money? And does the prestige of the college really matter? I live in the same city with a well known private tech college that costs 30 or 50k a semester, but there are also community and state colleges that are significantly cheaper that may also offer a degree. I dont enjoy debt, but I'm also 32 years old and running out of time if I'm to go back and change careers.
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Jun 6, 2022 19:58
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spwrozek posted:Fresh out of school with a BS. Civil, Electrical, or Mechanical doesn't matter on the degree. Technically the range goes down to $63K but the last fresh hire I saw in early 2021 was $68K. We are at roughly 62k base for fresh civil grads with FE. We were offering low 50s in early 2021, though we're a small firm so def always on the low end for the area. Bonuses get them to 70 but still can't compete with the big guys. Good time to be a young engineer
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Jun 6, 2022 20:08
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Turbinosamente posted:I can make an effort post with more specifics about my situation later, but yeah my first thought was electrical until I realized I was being an idiot and mechanical would be the better/more lateral move. It looked like there were more opportunities for mechanical as well. 2 year degree is basically worthless unless you want to got the designer route (drafting and supporting engineers). Pretty much every state has a few State Schools that are cheaper and very much good enough to get into the field. Some better than others but we can help you with your options. I would highly recommend CC for the first 2 years if possible (maybe it lets you keep working even).
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Jun 6, 2022 20:48
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Turbinosamente posted:I can make an effort post with more specifics about my situation later, but yeah my first thought was electrical until I realized I was being an idiot and mechanical would be the better/more lateral move. It looked like there were more opportunities for mechanical as well. After your first engineering job, no one cares where you went to school. Your degree just indicates that you've been trained to think like a fledgling engineer. Most of your actual learning will be on the job. I'm environmental, not electrical or mechanical, but I went back to school in my mid-30s for my bachelor's in it. I started by attending a local community college which had a two-year engineering program that was specifically designed to be transferable to nearby four-year colleges. Upside? CC credit hours were about a third of the cost of the university's. Smaller general ed and interdisciplinary engineering courses. Downside? No worthwhile internship opportunities until after your junior year.
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Jun 6, 2022 20:52
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Biggest thing is to make sure your BS degree program is accredited (ABET, not sure if there are others?). From a professional standpoint, that's the biggest concern... unaccredited engineering degrees aren't worth much from a "formal" standpoint (i.e. you'll have a hard time getting a PE if you want it, and NASA won't take your astronaut application). And if you're going to do CC->BS, the FIRST thing to do is to make sure the school you're getting your BS at will take transfer credits from the CC you want. You don't want to find out 2 years in that you can't transfer. The only time your undergrad school really matters is for networking and for MS/PhD school applications. Rose-Hulman and Olin look great on a resume, and they do have top quality programs, but they're not going to open many doors that Big State University can't. If you're going to stop with a BS, I wouldn't worry too much about "prestige." edit: So to be sure, an ABET accredited school can have unaccredited programs. I didn't know it at the time, because I didn't research it, but my degree program was actually unaccredited when I started it. But it was undergoing accreditation at the time and was awarded retroactively starting the 3-4 years before I started, so all was good. But the take-away here is to make sure the exact program you intend on pursuing is in fact accredited. DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 20:58
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If you do the CC to state school route, check to see if your state has a tool that'll show you the transfer/articulation agreement between your current CC and your desired four-year-school, like ASSIST for California or NJTransfer for New Jersey, so that you can plan out your first two years and maximize the amount of tuition you save
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Jun 6, 2022 21:43
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Yeah the admission advisers should also have good direction for you as long as you make clear you want to have no constraints if you choose to transfer for a bachelor's. And you do want that even if you think you might just stop at the 2 year degree. I went to CC back in the 90's and had no plans to go get a BS. Then I hit a salary cap and my company said "no degree no promotion" so I decided to go back, and there was only one school in my entire state that would take my credits in transfer. Otherwise I'd start as a freshman with a few credits. Really pissed me off. In the end I went to that school and it worked out fantastic, and when I applied for my first job they were like "you have a Bachelor's?" and that was the end of it. From there it was all experience, and your machining experience will mean a lot to the right people. And when you order parts from china that cost less than the material costs here, you'll be occasionally impressed with the quality but the rest of the time you'll be the one asked to rework them.
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Jun 7, 2022 19:53
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Turbinosamente posted:Jives with what I'm seeing in job postings and the like locally, about 65k or so for entry level positions. I only make 35k after 6 years and have had my journeyman cert for about a year. And you know, would like to not be sweating bullets at the possibility of buying a house. Still very much in the research phase of this, and figuring out how the hell to pay for more school to do it. Journeymen piefitters and electricians are making up to $45 to $55 an hour in some of the projects I've been at. Apprentice pay I think is around $20-$25 an hour, base. Being a pump technician might be a better use of your skills and better pay and benefits in the interim. As for the Engineer side of things. 62-68k was the base salary when I started. I agree with everything that's been said about going the community college. One more thing you want to be certain about is how long those community college credits last. Some states/colleges have credits expire... if you wait too long. A 2 year degree is considerably cheaper. It also gets you some wiggle room. In the sense if you get that degree, maybe find a new job with it. Then finish the 4 year. However, I would say the key to everything right now really comes down to having budgetable/affordable housing and commute.
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Jun 8, 2022 03:14
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The problem with the local CC and their 2+2 programs and degrees is I've known of many people who did that and it became 3+3 years or worse. Granted their degrees were in nursing and teaching, but it doesn't bode well that so many are having to do extra years of schooling beyond the basic 4, especially through this CC. It's also looking like the expensive school is the only one with a four year degree. And it never fails, complain on the internet and all of a sudden good poo poo starts happening at work. Out of nowhere they've put me on a CNC lathe which is a significant skill building opportunity for the short term since I've been pigeonholed into precision grinding and haven't done CNC work since I was last in school. I'm sure you guys know it's where machining as a field is headed, manual machining skills aren't as important as they used to be. Hopefully I can get to (re)learn setup and programming and don't get stuck as a button pusher. And there is another order coming for the government project I work on and the project is likely to be extended for an extra 6-12 years, which is welcome news because there's been gently caress all to do. I've never tried to ask for a raise but I get the feeling that it's much easier to do so when there's a ton of work and you can point to your accomplishments doing it as leverage. Granted I'm pretty sure the company is afraid of losing more employees and is in scramble mode right now too. I'll have to play my cards carefully on this. I still want to at least drop a line to an admissions councilor at the expensive school because I am curious whether my ancient BA and BFA from 2013 and my one year certificate in machining from 2016/17 will get me any credits or are too outdated. It does feel like I also have to make a choice between a house or another degree at this point.
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Jun 8, 2022 04:42
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When I was is in school, a lot of the CC transfers into my engineering program did 2 years at CC but ended up having to do 3 years at the university due to how classes were scheduled. I'm not sure if it's gotten better but I think, at least from the program that I did, it would be a pretty difficult course load to compress 3 years worth of engineering classes into 2. --- Big (traditional) commercial aerospace continuing to look not great from my vantage point, no new projects/programs at all. Tons of attrition from the engineering team to various other defense aero contractors and more interestingly to air-taxi/eVOTL start-ups. Commercial aerospace has been highly cyclical but the pandemic really hammered the nail into the coffin for a lot of projects.
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Jun 8, 2022 13:57
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There is a massive shortage of skilled materials lab technicians right now. Stuff like metallurgical mount prep, polishing and etching samples, basic metallographic evaluations, and mechanical testing. I don’t know of any 2 or 4 year programs off the top of my head for technician-level work but you’d be looking at a materials science and engineering BS if you went for a university degree and were interested in pursuing working in a lab like this. Honestly, if you have experience in a machine shop, it might be worth checking out these types of roles already. Nothing is any more complicated to operate than an average CNC machine, i don’t think. Element is the biggest contractor in the US afaik, there are a few others though, too. Belcan is another company we’ve (aerospace OEM) contracted with although it’s been probably 6 or 7 years since we worked with them. mes posted:When I was is in school, a lot of the CC transfers into my engineering program did 2 years at CC but ended up having to do 3 years at the university due to how classes were scheduled. I'm not sure if it's gotten better but I think, at least from the program that I did, it would be a pretty difficult course load to compress 3 years worth of engineering classes into 2. Interesting, I am in the same field and we just won a new contract that’s spinning up design infrastructure right now. However, since it’s impossible to hire right now, all that infrastructure is coming from the rest of the company and the existing workforce so… now we have stuff like an entire product line that has one or fewer full-time dedicated design engineers per module. Lawnie fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 14:06
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I liked subbing individual CC courses to replace some of the uni courses. Easier to learn some concepts in a small classroom vs lecture hall. Did chem, diffEQ, statics, and a couple other classes. Strongly recommended if you don't mind the administrative hassle.
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Jun 8, 2022 14:44
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RE: state of the industry Work for an AR firm as an EE PE. Mostly do industrial manufacturer facility retrofits and upgrades. We are hiring mechanicals, structurals, electricals, archs, designers, any warm bodies really. Hasn't seemed to be any slowdown, even through covid. Our biggest client is basically too big to fail, at least for the next 20 years, so maybe this is relatively anomalous.
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Jun 8, 2022 14:46
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mes posted:When I was is in school, a lot of the CC transfers into my engineering program did 2 years at CC but ended up having to do 3 years at the university due to how classes were scheduled. I'm not sure if it's gotten better but I think, at least from the program that I did, it would be a pretty difficult course load to compress 3 years worth of engineering classes into 2. That brings up a good point: a BS in engineering is not necessarily a 4 year degree. Honestly I think 4 years is pretty optimistic even if you take all your classes at the same school. Part of the issue is that a lot of degree-specific class requirements start in the 1st and 2nd year, and they're usually pre-requisites for later classes (which are, in turn, pre-reqs for higher level classes). So if you're doing generals at a CC, then you might screw up timing a bit and end up having to wait to take the classes you need... this gets compounded by certain classes only being offered in the fall or spring, so missing it by 1 semester might put you a year behind. Basically, if you do the entire BS at a single school, it's not a strict "first 2 years are generals and last 2 years are degree-specific." More of a slow transition over 4 years from mostly generals to mostly degree-specific. I mean for me, I took 4.5 years. I had at least a semester's worth of transfer credits coming in, but I did a summer/fall co-op (so I lost the fall semester), and I did a double major (extra semester worth of classes). All that and I even got out before some of my friends who didn't have transfer credits and "only" did a single major. Only person I know who graduated early was in CS, and he also had a bunch of transfer credits coming in. Something to note though is that a lot of schools do per-credit tuition now, so you won't necessarily be adding more cost by taking 2.5-3 years at the BS school. The number of credits you need is the same, it just might take longer to get them all.
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Jun 8, 2022 15:36
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Lawnie posted:... In particular there's just no new, huge, platform being launched -- think 787 or A350 type programs. I think the stuff trickling in has been smaller scale projects. But at least that what I've been able to gather, I'm still working for said company but I've transitioned completely to doing software engineering and don't really have visibility of what the aerospace engineering group is actually doing. DaveSauce posted:That brings up a good point: a BS in engineering is not necessarily a 4 year degree. Honestly I think 4 years is pretty optimistic even if you take all your classes at the same school. I would say that it was common for people to take 5 years to do their BS in engineering when I was in school a decade ago, even if they started their freshman year at the school. I personally was able to do it in 4 years because I didn't need to support myself and was able to fully concentrate on studies. There were definitely quarters where I felt overloaded with classes I was taking even though that par for the course for a 4-year plan. mes fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 8, 2022 |
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Jun 8, 2022 16:46
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DaveSauce posted:Part of the issue is that a lot of degree-specific class requirements start in the 1st and 2nd year, and they're usually pre-requisites for later classes (which are, in turn, pre-reqs for higher level classes). So if you're doing generals at a CC, then you might screw up timing a bit and end up having to wait to take the classes you need... this gets compounded by certain classes only being offered in the fall or spring, so missing it by 1 semester might put you a year behind. Right, anyone looking at engineering should specifically look at an engineering transfer curriculum. You want one that has 2 year programs specifically designed to transfer to the big schools without missing anything.
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Jun 8, 2022 21:15
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Industry report: crude oil refining is going nuts at this moment due to too many refineries closing permanently during the pandemic. And now there is a shortage of refining capacity leading big margins for those left in business. My site is pivoting to renewables and had been the primary focus for the company for the last year plus. Lately all of the resources are back helping the fossil refineries push out as many barrels as they can manage. Job market for chemical engineers remains robust. Same for mechanical, electrical and especially controls engineers. Turnover is high, especially among folks with roughly 4-8 years of experience.
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Jun 9, 2022 03:41
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Just started as a civil engineer at an A/E firm that does consulting on construction projects. Very old school, just gotten to chill in the office over the past week and a half while i think they figure out what to do with me. Did a bachelor's in history, then ended up as a CAD tech then decided to go back to school for civil engineering and here i am. Money's pretty good, stretches better in the market i'm in.
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Jun 9, 2022 15:16
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Government engineering spots continue to be spread too thin, are hard to fill due to paying under comparable private positions, and filled spots are generally occupied by a bunch of burnt out old guys who don't care about trying to fix the process. Still reliable and dependable if you got a family and a fixed 8 hour day is great. We're still having a hard time finding bidders for work but that's probably more due to SBO rules rather than everyone just having a full plate like a year or so ago. We also have effectively infinite money for non-new construction projects for this year and maybe next for some reason so lots of small projects being put on the street. AIR Commission recommendations would have the VA replacing, consolidating, or upgrading huge swaths of medical centers and clinics starting in 5-10 years so that's something to eye if you are in hospital/commercial construction or medical systems. Lots of people (myself included) still arguing against the proposed recommendations, but it'd be a huge handout to private medicine in the form of reducing VA capacity and capability and offloading patients to local private medical providers ah la the Veterans Choice Act, so I assume it will come to pass.
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Jun 9, 2022 15:19
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Panzeh posted:Just started as a civil engineer at an A/E firm that does consulting on construction projects. Very old school, just gotten to chill in the office over the past week and a half while i think they figure out what to do with me. I feel like I'm looking in a mirror.
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Jun 9, 2022 16:04
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dublish posted:I feel like I'm looking in a mirror. We need to start a club for the History BA to engineering BS pipeline.
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Jun 9, 2022 19:11
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Pander posted:We need to start a club for the History BA to engineering BS pipeline. Can I be in it with an Art History BA? Assuming I do take up an engineering degree.
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Jun 9, 2022 19:17
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Had a good four-year run at the consulting engineering firm I hired on at right out of college. Learned a lot about project management and was exposed to a lot of different stuff. I'm pretty tired of working in oil and gas, I started my career with a mining internship that I really liked so maybe go back into that. My wife lost her job here and got a new one in a town where we have another office (she commutes two hours one way and spends the night Monday and comes home Tuesday). I thought it was a no-brainer to allow us to move there and just work out of that office. I haven't seen a client in the office in person since March of 2020, so I thought remote work was fine. Was basically told in my review this week that there is no way I would be allowed to work out of the other office because my manager "wants to be able to step out of his office and see what I'm working on or have a discussion." We are severely understaffed and I get along with my boss well. I feel lovely that I'm gonna cause a lot of stress for everyone by leaving. I'm really nervous about finding a new job in the area and I'm afraid of the unknown and letting go of the status quo. But, if I/we don't I know we will be someplace we don't want to live, forever.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:39
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Target Practice posted:Had a good four-year run at the consulting engineering firm I hired on at right out of college. Learned a lot about project management and was exposed to a lot of different stuff. I'm pretty tired of working in oil and gas, I started my career with a mining internship that I really liked so maybe go back into that. You have to worry about yourself in these situations, it sucks to put more stress on your coworkers, but if it was the other way around the company would let you go the moment it made business sense for them to do it. You even gave them an option to let you stay on, but they turned it down, that's on the company not you. Being nervous about finding a new job can be a real worry, but you can at least look around online and see what the market looks like.
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Jun 10, 2022 21:09
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Remote work is fine. We've proven that globally (edit: obviously with some caveats, but for desk jobs it's mostly fine). If anything, the lack of pop-in "whatcha doin" has helped people get out from under the thumb of micromanagers so they can actually be productive. Employers need to be prepared for employees leaving. Turnover happens, it's inevitable. Chronic understaffing and not having a way to distribute work (temporarily) after someone leaves is just poor planning. So really, your manager sucks at being a manager. Don't feel bad, this is their fault, not yours. But that said, this is common. Managers are typically engineers who got promoted because the position opened up and they were good at engineering and/or most senior at the time. They usually have zero management training and still have the "I'm an engineer I want to solve this" mindset. Which is fine, except the problems they should be solving are different from the ones they're paying you to solve.
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Jun 10, 2022 21:17
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You gave them the opportunity to keep you. They (unknowingly) didn't take it. It's on them, not you. They didn't step up for you when you needed to so why should you feel bad that you're not going to step up for them by staying despite the bad situation? They are just a company you work(ed) for, nothing more.
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Jun 11, 2022 10:02
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If you’re a decent machinist do you mean 3 or 5 axis? 5 axis decent machinists can pick where they want to work at 100K. I’d probably recommend mechanical engineering, maybe manufacturing if that’s the field you want to stay in. Do you have certs/apprentice/journeyman cards?
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Aug 2, 2022 01:47
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More than 3 months in, i sit at a computer and do nothing all day, this is engineering, i guess.
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Sep 8, 2022 20:42
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sometimes people bring in cake or cookies to the office, that's also an important part of engineering.
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Sep 8, 2022 21:07
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Panzeh posted:More than 3 months in, i sit at a computer and do nothing all day, this is engineering, i guess. Denying your labor to competitors is somehow worth it.
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Sep 8, 2022 22:33
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