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oh yeah the scenes at the beginning suck, i thought the boat scene was okay where it's just this blinding light with exotic birds, leaves more to the imagination
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Sep 8, 2022 09:10
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Ravenfood posted:You do remember how loving lovely the elves can be, right? If anything I was just happy Valinor and the elf children weren't floating around being ethereal and compassionate and wise at each other, since, well, *points at all of the Silmarillion* Yeah but Galadriel specifically wasn't like Feanor. Tolkien makes a whole point out of it. She didn't take part in the kinslaying and it later revisions actively fought against the Noldor at Alqualonde. Galadriel got done dirty in the show. They could have made up their own brand new character to do all the things she's doing and nobody would have batted and eye. But they wanted the name recognition and to be able to tell their own story at the same time.
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Sep 8, 2022 10:15
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Celebrimbor is Celegorm's son and he was born in Valinor, right? As far as i can see from family trees he was Fëanor's only named grandson. Would he have sworn the Oath alongside his father? Also something else I've wondered WRT the three hosts of the Noldor. They clearly brought their women with them given how Aredhel, Galadriel and Finduilas came over with the hosts. For an event like the First Kinslaying would they have participated and then jump aboard the ships with Fëanor's host, or would Fëanor have left the women behind and those women followed Fingolfin's host across the ice?
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Sep 8, 2022 13:43
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Arc Hammer posted:Celebrimbor is Celegorm's son and he was born in Valinor, right? As far as i can see from family trees he was Fëanor's only named grandson. Would he have sworn the Oath alongside his father? celebrimbor wasn't necessarily born in valinor tolkien doesn't mention if feanor's host's women came with them, but i see no reason why they would have been left behind
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Sep 8, 2022 13:52
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Hammerstein posted:I'm already worried what they will do to Isildur and Elendil in the coming episodes. Isildur has been described by the show runners as having a Michael Corleone type arc which I think sounds intriguing.
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Sep 8, 2022 14:02
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he was curufin's son, curufin was a jerk and celebrimbor renounced him
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Sep 8, 2022 14:03
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Funky See Funky Do posted:Yeah but Galadriel specifically wasn't like Feanor. Tolkien makes a whole point out of it. She didn't take part in the kinslaying and it later revisions actively fought against the Noldor at Alqualonde. Exactly. She was certainly headstrong in her desire for her own realm and rulership, but she is described as a lot wiser and more temperate than many of her peers. For example: she realized early that the elves would not be able to defeat Morgoth on their own. That she's among the very few Noldor leaders who survived the First Age is testament to the wisdom. "Angry SpecOps Galadriel and her elite commandos", that we saw in the first episode (which reminded me immediately of the ice climbing scene in the opening of Modern Warfare 2), would likely have been killed in year 1 of the War of the Jewels.
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Sep 8, 2022 14:20
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on the subject of adaptation, what is some artwork that you guys actually like (besides tolkien's own) that matches what you picture in your heads when you read? this is close to what i imagine for feanor  a classic; a variag of khand by john howe  this is a good maeglin  a nice sauron and ar pharazon  sauron looking like dagoth ur  also kind of like this annatar looking like some kind of weird gigolo  this is not what i picture really but i like the idea of sauron looking like just a prosaic, hosed up and disgusting freak instead of generic spiky armor man most fanart is really bad or yaoi but i think some of it is cool and fun to look at
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Sep 8, 2022 14:48
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Shibawanko posted:on the subject of adaptation, what is some artwork that you guys actually like (besides tolkien's own) that matches what you picture in your heads when you read?
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Sep 8, 2022 14:54
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alan lee, john howe, ted nasmith, and angus mcbride are a league of their own e: and david day
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Sep 8, 2022 14:58
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Shibawanko posted:he was curufin's son, curufin was a jerk and celebrimbor renounced him Ah, wrong C. All of Fëanor's C sons were capital C Cocks, easy to mix them up. I really like Jenny Dolfen's artwork of Fingolfin. All of her stuff is really great watercolors. https://goldseven.wordpress.com/galleries/tolkien/ Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Sep 8, 2022 |
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Sep 8, 2022 15:17
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Arc Hammer posted:Also something else I've wondered WRT the three hosts of the Noldor. They clearly brought their women with them given how Aredhel, Galadriel and Finduilas came over with the hosts. For an event like the First Kinslaying would they have participated and then jump aboard the ships with Fëanor's host, or would Fëanor have left the women behind and those women followed Fingolfin's host across the ice? Probably some of them were in each host.  Galadriel herself crossed the ice.
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Sep 8, 2022 15:35
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I have not been watching but it seems the Amazon show is not doing well? I saw the first episode and was unimpressed with the actors they chose for the rolls . The casting is not great in other words. These are legendary elves and they got actors who don’t appear special at all. These people have to match up with Orlando bloom , cate blanchette, etc. the original movie cast was more or less unknown at the time they were cast . Why didn’t the Amazon show find appropriate actors idk. That is my takeaway.
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Sep 8, 2022 15:39
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euphronius posted:I have not been watching but it seems the Amazon show is not doing well? I saw the first episode and was unimpressed with the actors they chose for the rolls . The casting is not great in other words. These are legendary elves and they got actors who don’t appear special at all. These people have to match up with Orlando bloom , cate blanchette, etc. yeah, there's not a single good actor in the show and it couldn't have been for the lack of money
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Sep 8, 2022 15:42
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euphronius posted:I have not been watching but it seems the Amazon show is not doing well? I saw the first episode and was unimpressed with the actors they chose for the rolls . The casting is not great in other words. These are legendary elves and they got actors who don’t appear special at all. These people have to match up with Orlando bloom , cate blanchette, etc. You're not wrong except I wouldn't say Cate Blanchett, Liv Tyler or Agent Elrond were exactly unknowns.
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Sep 8, 2022 15:47
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There's been two episodes so far and the first episode didn't impress me very much, but I did like the second episode a lot more. The guy playing Elrond does have a good back and forth with Durin, who's got great casting. John Rhys Davis gave Gimli a welsh accent, so for Durin IV they cast a welsh actor. If they can keep up with the improvement of the second episode I'll hopefully be able to let the first episode slide, but it's definitely the weaker of the two released.
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Sep 8, 2022 15:52
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euphronius posted:I have not been watching but it seems the Amazon show is not doing well? I saw the first episode and was unimpressed with the actors they chose for the rolls . The casting is not great in other words. These are legendary elves and they got actors who don’t appear special at all. These people have to match up with Orlando bloom , cate blanchette, etc. noted strong actor Orlando Bloom I like the actress they've chosen for Galadriel. Elrond is ok. Certainly better than Peter Jackson's portrayal of Elrond as an angry old man. The Hobbit actors are probably the best so far. I don't like what they're doing with the Dwarves (though Gisa is cool) but I haven't liked anything anyone has done with the Dwarves dating back to Peter Jackson so Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Sep 8, 2022 |
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Sep 8, 2022 15:54
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euphronius posted:I have not been watching but it seems the Amazon show is not doing well? I saw the first episode and was unimpressed with the actors they chose for the rolls . The casting is not great in other words. These are legendary elves and they got actors who don’t appear special at all. These people have to match up with Orlando bloom , cate blanchette, etc. by what metric is it not doing well? tons of people watched it.
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Sep 8, 2022 15:54
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From reading the comments here.
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Sep 8, 2022 15:58
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To be fair Peter Jackson et Al are very good at making visual media. I guess it’s not completely fair to compare.
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Sep 8, 2022 16:00
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euphronius posted:From reading the comments here. Probably not a good metric to measure the success of a TV show, especially considering the number of posters who seemed emotionally invested in the show failing
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Sep 8, 2022 16:10
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Its a decent metric if all you care about are the opinions of lotr nerds.
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Sep 8, 2022 16:52
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#NotAllLotRNerds
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Sep 8, 2022 16:54
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SHISHKABOB posted:Its a decent metric if all you care about are the opinions of lotr nerds. Sure but it's been split along easily predictable lines where anyone who did not like the movies or was turned off immediately by the first trailer has not liked it, and most of the others either like it or think it's ok and are withholding judgement till the end of the season.
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Sep 8, 2022 17:11
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euphronius posted:I have not been watching but it seems the Amazon show is not doing well? I saw the first episode and was unimpressed with the actors they chose for the rolls . The casting is not great in other words. These are legendary elves and they got actors who don’t appear special at all. These people have to match up with Orlando bloom , cate blanchette, etc. I have no interest in watching it but amazon said it was their #1 show ever with 25 million people watching the debut. As long as it doesn't tank so hard it takes WoT down with it I'm content.
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Sep 8, 2022 17:16
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Did their WOT show get canned? My friend is big into those books and hated the show so I never watched
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Sep 8, 2022 17:20
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https://twitter.com/lijukic/status/1567466314746269697
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Sep 8, 2022 17:21
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Hammerstein posted:Exactly. She was certainly headstrong in her desire for her own realm and rulership, but she is described as a lot wiser and more temperate than many of her peers. For example: she realized early that the elves would not be able to defeat Morgoth on their own. That she's among the very few Noldor leaders who survived the First Age is testament to the wisdom. I would agree that if this series was taking place at the height of the War of the Jewels, this sort of behavior would be out of character for Galadriel. But it takes place in the Second Age when Morgoth is gone and the orcs are in retreat. Wanting and pursuing vengeance in that situation is not an act of suicide at that point like it would have been during the First Age. It's very clear that the direction they chose to go with Galadriel is that she is traumatized by what happened in the first age and her plot arc will be learning to deal with that trauma.
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Sep 8, 2022 17:32
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Kilson posted:Probably some of them were in each host. I guess my follow up would be did any of the female elves take up arms, especially given how most of Fingolfin's host arrived right as the battle under the stars commenced. Shield maidens of the Elves? Galadriel actively resisted the Noldor during the kinslaying but what does that look like? The Men of Haleth were led by Haleth herself during the First Age so women in leadership roles during times of war isn't unheard of for FA.
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Sep 8, 2022 17:40
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Tolkien in one of his letters does explicitly describe Galadriel as being like an amazon in her younger days, putting her hair up like a crown on her head when she engaged in athletic feats. The way she did her hair like that is also why people started calling her Galadriel rather than her original name. It means something like "crowned with golden light" or whatever.
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Sep 8, 2022 17:49
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Wasn’t she invented when he wrote the Lothlorien section for the first time. Neither here nor there just interesting .
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Sep 8, 2022 18:56
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The only metrics Bezos is going to care about is Amazon Prime/Video subscriptions.
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Sep 8, 2022 19:02
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euphronius posted:Wasn’t she invented when he wrote the Lothlorien section for the first time. Yes, which is why she isn’t involved in any of the major stories of the elder days—they were all relatively established already, so there’s nothing much for her to do apart from fruitlessly tell Feanor to go screw. She just spends some part of it learning how to do the whole witch-queen of the bounded realm thing from Melian and then ducks. Be kind of funny to have her hanging around Menegroth in the background of the Beren or Turin stories, though. skasion fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Sep 8, 2022 |
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Sep 8, 2022 19:13
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For real it's pretty funny how Tolkien clearly kept leaving women out of his stories only because it just never occurred to him to make them important figures, and then when he suddenly did remember "oh poo poo I'd better put some women in" he made them badasses and threw in some last-minute prophecy-fulfillment like with Éowyn and the Witch-king to make sure they subverted damsel-in-distress tropes. Honestly I feel like he probably would have been perfectly happy with a reframing like this one that puts women more front-and-center from the outset. He probably would have recognized his own failings just fine. Ego was never among his problems (remembering how when he first submitted his manuscript of The Hobbit he forgot to put his name on it and someone at the publisher scrawled it on for him, as I saw at the museum exhibit a few years back)
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Sep 8, 2022 20:45
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I can't quote it off the top of my head, but IIRC in his letters, he got a question about the absence of women in his work and his response was something like "Not true, and in any case it doesn't matter". Edit: Tolkien's Letters posted:It is not ‘about’ anything but itself. Certainly it has no allegorical intentions, general, particular, or topical, moral, religious, or political. The only criticism that annoyed me was one that it ‘contained no religion’ (and ‘no Women’, but that does not matter, and is not true anyway). Jo Joestar fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Sep 8, 2022 |
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Sep 8, 2022 21:23
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She would have been in the Court during the major scenes with Beren and Thingol imho.
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Sep 8, 2022 21:44
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Lol ok never mind
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Sep 8, 2022 21:56
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Eowyn was pretty prominent from the early drafts. Probably the most prominent besides Luthien in his unpublished stories? https://www.tor.com/2019/04/04/exploring-the-peoples-of-middle-earth-eowyn-shieldmaiden-of-rohan/ Her early version was "super cool Amazon shieldmaiden who fights with the men, hell yeah", which is fun but didn't have much of an arc. He ended up combining her with a cut Theoden's-daughter character to produce the final version.
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Sep 8, 2022 22:37
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Elros was shown in a tapestry this episode and Anarion got a name drop. I like the guy playing Elendil and it's interesting watching Tar Miriel play the role of a nationalist at the court of the King's Men. Not entirely sure why they'd give Isildur a sister if Anarion is still around, probably to get some tragedy later is my best guess. Sauron shows up at the end of the episode. he's blurry but definitely Elvish in features.
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Sep 9, 2022 06:23
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episode 3 I'm feeling a bit better about the series? Still in the cautiously optimistic camp. Not a fan of the episode going live at midnight Eastern on Friday though, why not 9p ET Thursday like the premiere? (book and show spoilers freely intermingled) Numenor: Ok, some serious changes here -- Tar-Miriel is Queen Regent and her father (Tar-Palantir, presumably?) retired? Pharazôn is a councillor instead of her cousin. Miriel does not appear to be openly pro-Elf but maybe she is secretly so given the conversation with her father? Her "The Elf has come" line sounded weird to my ears though --- and why would Tar-Palantir fear the coming of an Elf? I don't recall Isildur having a sister, and sounds like Anárion is now his elder brother, not his younger brother? Elendil seemed cool. Numenor seemed believable (and beautiful) and I could buy into the chronology changes they've made, for now, though I worry about consistency/timing here in depicting the fall of Numenor. Seems like it's mostly fallen at this point, but I guess it still has a ways to go since Pharazôn is not yet Ar-Pharazôn and looked to be in his 40s or 50s -- so plenty of time for him to grow old and sail the west. Also the whole needing Sauron to establish a kingdom that the Numenor's come and destroy... so we've got a few seasons to go, at least. Halbrand as a long-lost Southron king does seem a bit strange/convenient. I guess Galadriel and he will go to the Southlands? Maybe run into Arondir and co. (or free whoever's left there). I guess the Stranger is a Blue Wizard, since Adar apparently is Sauron or a high servant of Sauron's and I did not get Saurony vibes at all from the Stranger this episode. Misdirection last week, I suppose.
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Sep 9, 2022 06:50
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