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FPyat posted:One thing that would probably mess with my enjoyment is that whenever I read the name "Darrow" I'll immediately think of a guy making fun of the Bible to a former secretary of state in a courtroom while a bunch of yokels watch. It'll turn out that Darrow is the descendant of Clarence Darrow and the real villain behind the Golds is an immortal William Jennings Bryan.
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Sep 11, 2022 07:28
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sebmojo posted:I'm partway through tamsyn "Gideon" Muir's latest and it's vg, bits of it are going to be incomprehensibly kiwi to anyone else though lol (only incidental details, and you can probably work it all out from context though) Like l&p and Winston Peeters? Footrot flats?
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Sep 11, 2022 11:30
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freebooter posted:I quite liked that it's a coming of age story which takes place in the decade when people actually do become properly mature, i.e. their 20s, not their teens. Nice humblebrag 
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Sep 11, 2022 13:10
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idiotsavant posted:I tried The Magicians and I dunno if I want to keep going past the first book. Almost every character seems to be some combination of self-absorbed, self-hating rear end in a top hat chasing their own annihilation and it was just kinda wearing. Are the sequels more of the same? The Magicians is a checklist series, Lev Grossman is a book reviewer first and foremost and he writes like he's making sure gto address all his personal complaints. It's also kind of a Ready Player One thing, he has blog posts were he calls out all his own references for pages and pages. Stupid poo poo like "This description I used to homage a Penny Arcade strip."
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Sep 11, 2022 13:48
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StrixNebulosa posted:Stardoc by S.L. Viehl! Haven't read it yet. So I finally got around to checking these out and I have very mixed feelings about them. The medical parts are basically "Star Trek if it were a medical drama" and in that sense it's a worthy successor to Sector General. In the first book the protag (who is at this point a surgeon with several years of experience but who has only ever treated humans) takes a posting at a distant border world, so that plot thread involves a lot of encountering new and exciting non-human ailments (and interpersonal drama as she tries to integrate with the existing staff), capped off with a mysterious pneuomonic plague that turns out to be a shapeshifting bacterial hivemind that keeps panicking when bits of it get inhaled into people. I would gladly read ten books of that. There's also an ongoing B-plot where her abusive father is trying to get her to come back to Earth, which escalates dramatically because she's actually a heavily augmented lab-grown prototype of the "perfect human" he was working on and he needs her back to continue his research, and has gotten a bunch of governments to declare her legally not a person and help him try to retrieve her. I consider this mostly a distraction from the medical drama stuff and so far it hasn't done anything particularly interesting with the concept, it's just an excuse to keep her on the run and constantly moving from world to world (and put her in situations that should kill her without it being fatal). Then on top of that, these are billed as "sci-fi romance" and as is common in cishet romance novels they are extremely rapey. By the end of the second book she's been raped once, sexually assaulted at least a dozen times, been subject to all sorts of non-sexual consent violations, been married against her will, and willingly married a man who betrayed her and sold her into slavery immediately afterwards. I'm halfway through the third book now, and there's an interesting story buried in it somewhere about an outbreak of alien meningitis, but the bulk of the book is devoted to her being tortured by slavers in various ways, both physical and psychological. And she gets involuntarily married again. Oh yeah, and so far there has been exactly one queer character and, uh, I think I would prefer if the author just hadn't included them at all a serial killer who became a lesbian and went on a killing spree because she was rejected by the man she loved. Reading this over again, I think it's less that my feelings are mixed and more that my feelings are heavily tempered with regret that a cool concept that the author evidently is capable of pulling off well if she actually went for it got hosed up so comprehensively and thoroughly, and I don't think I'm going to finish book 3 after all. ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Sep 11, 2022 |
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Sep 11, 2022 17:22
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Jedit posted:Baru did everything wrong. Which is mostly the point. Well that's just, like, your opinion man.
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Sep 11, 2022 19:01
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Just read The Last Human by Zach Jordan and thoroughly enjoyed myself the whole time.
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Sep 11, 2022 19:40
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Fumblemouse posted:Becoming not quite so self-absorbed is basically the protagonist's arc, but there is certainly more of it to come after book 1, along with the rape of another character (not by the protag). I don't recall it being gratuitous, in that it's all plot relevant and you can see what the author was going for (Narnia/ Hogwarts but with real people who occasionally have awful things happen to them), but it can make for a grind to read and could have been handled differently with hindsight. mmm yeah I learned of that plot point and just noped out of the series altogether. When I read the plot summaries up it didn't seem like I missed out on a lot. The 1st book was decent but it does have a high jerk quotient and actually unpleasant to read because of the characters.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:00
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I have now made it through to the end of The Bone Ships.Strom Cuzewon posted:The Bone Ships is a fun pirate romp with weird magic birds, but I should warn the reader that it ends with the words Leng posted:Since I sort of was annoyed at the last over hyped book I bought without checking out the sample first, I decided to do that with The Bone Ships. The level of exposition-dumping and repetitive narration falls off a lot (but never entirely stops) after the opening chapters, which imo didn't need to be that long. For a book where so much of the uninteresting timeline gets skipped over (quite effectively) later on, the opening is extremely repetitive. Nothing of real significance happens until the first ship fight in Chapter 9—the takeaways you need from chapters 2 through 8 are "Meas is like a force of nature and nobody on the Tide Child dares go against her and Joron is very bitter" and the essence of every event that occurs between Meas deposing Joron could have been neatly summarized in a few paragraphs instead of 50 pages and I'd have been less bored. The actual plot doesn't kick off until Chapter 13, 113 freaking pages in, and I actually like the concept itself: a sea dragon has been sighted, the first in generations, and they need to give it protective escort along it migratory route because if either of the warring sides in the Archipelago gets hold of its corpse, they'll be able to build more bone ships out of it and wipe out the other side for good. From there, the plot is more or less competently executed—we follow the plan that is outlined in Chapter 13, hitting every single obstacle that is set up in that scene along the way, and things fold more or less as anticipated. There are a few attempts at twists along the way, but they didn't quite hit the right note between "wtf where did that come from" or "ehhh saw that coming a mile away" for me. I think it's because said "twists" all relied on character motivations or plot devices that were pretty transparent—at least to me—so I was like well of COURSE Karrad's spy who has been going on and on about duty is going to try and kill the keyshan (it was so very anticlimatic, literally, because it came on the heels of the climax) and of COURSE the terrible deckkeeper who's been mouthy and disrespectful the whole time is going to mutiny and turn traitor and of COURSE they win the day because the lucky old woman who has been red-flagged from her first appearance as an Important Plot Device tells Joron to sing and surprise surprise the song he's been hearing everywhere from the guillame and the windspires and the arakeesian is all connected and it is a way to communicate "This Ship Friend; Other Ship Not Friend" to the sea dragon so it decides to chomp on the massive pirate ship that has devastated their ship and they make it out alive. MockingQuantum posted:I have to say I think these have also been badly oversold, not just here but all over the place. They're pretty long-winded books to begin with, but to whoever was asking, they will be significantly more boring if you've read any Aubrey-Maturin. O'Brian was a master at making the sailing sections interesting and engaging in their own rights just by following the small dramas and worries of ship life, and Barker doesn't have that gift at all, really. The sailing sections in the Bone Ships books ironically are probably more boring because Barker tries hard to shy away from the daily life of the sailors and largely focus on individual engagements or battles or chases or whatever, but it makes those sections feel somewhat disconnected from anything because they're the only thing going on and they're not particularly well written in their own right. They don't really exist in context, and are often only sort of moving the plot forward, so the weaker sailing sections feel like they're there to add artificial conflict and pad the books. I finished The Mauritius Command recently too and this is accurate, though narratively it's probably not the best comparison (it's the only point of comparison I have though, because I haven't read any other Aubrey-Maturin books yet). I did like how Barker based his nautical terms according to bird anatomy though; it made it easy for me, somebody who doesn't have a clue about sailing, to understand what was going on. Reading Aubrey-Maturin was slow going for me, because there were so many nautical terms that I didn't understand that I kept re-reading passages over and over even though I knew I didn't have to since Jack knew what was going on. I think the last time I felt this lost was when I was just getting into Gardens of the Moon. MockingQuantum posted:And the books feel pretty padded to begin with, it feels like there's maybe two books worth of actual plot strung out to three books. Also the characters tend to be pretty flimsy and the plot itself is a bit meandering, so a lot of what interested me in the first book ended up being the worldbuilding sections, but the world loses its novelty by the time you're stuck in the slog that is the middle of the third book. It was a trilogy that felt like it badly overstayed its welcome, and with a couple of exceptions a lot of the character development for any of the crew tended to happen offscreen or between books or just was sort of told to you that Character A grew up and got over stuff, so you had characters that literally rose to the occasion or saved the day purely because the plot needed someone to, leaving those moments feeling pretty unjustified or unearned, imo. That is probably less of an issue than I'm making it out to be, but it stuck out to me as some fairly clumsy writing that persisted throughout the books. I think this is my main issue with the book. We get to the end of the book and, and practically speaking, nothing has really changed. I mean, yes, thematically the found family has been found, and the arakeesian have returned and they decided to fail their quest but there was no sense of "woah, the world just changed" that I typically expect to feel at the end of book 1 in an epic fantasy trilogy. I never felt like that the spoilered bit was ever in doubt: it's apparent fairly early on that there was never gonna be enough remaining page count for the storyline to wrap up as setup, and the level of consideration the characters give their true task is "oh, that will suck" and they don't spend ANY time preparing for it, because of course, back in Chapter 13, we already established that they have a superweapon to make it an easy task. Right after we're told it's an impossible task. And then later on, we're shown something that makes it seem like it's going to be an impossible task. And then in the very final pages, it goes back to seeming like a super easy task again, because the characters treat it as if it's a foregone conclusion and all the tension is placed on a different conflict.  None of the characters are particularly complex. I liked the culture of the Hundred Isles society—the power dynamic between the Bern and the Kept and the Berncast in those few chapters we were in Bernshulme was the most interesting part of the book for me, and then we're off on the open water for the rest of the 270 ish pages. There's no intrigue happening at sea—we already got the infodump via the Meas/Karrad meeting when we got the escort quest. There's no real onscreen progression of character relationships—the progression in the Dinyl/Joron relationship happens pretty much offscreen, except for one scene where Joron's backstory comes out. Kanvey and Cwell are paper thin antagonists; Barlay had so much potential to be interesting but basically gets converted to the cause early on and then blends into the indistinguishable blob of "the crew" and emerges once sometime in the last third to deliver the obligatory "I am with you" at the appropriate moment of crisis. MockingQuantum posted:Also the books are riddled with copyediting issues, at least they were in the Kindle versions I read. The books in general felt like they were sort of let down by bad or insufficient editing, IMO. Leng posted:Can confirm the copy editing errors are still there, in the sample chapters to boot. And can also confirm that the paperback edition is also full of these. I kept thinking it was just the odd typo here and there, but proofreading errors abound throughout the book, including one on the very last page of the book, in an extremely obvious spot that is the payoff to a thing setup in a training sequence somewhere in the middle of the book.  I did make it to the end, but I never got that feeling of "I CAN'T PUT THIS BOOK DOWN". I liked the wondrous aspect of the arakeesian, I liked the world building, but I read for characters first, plot second and world building third so I never got invested in the characters enough. Lucky Meas as a legendary figure is pretty disappointing: she's Super Competent and Tough and Commanding and that's about it. We get snippets of songs that have been written about her, there's clearly A Prophecy concerning her, and none of it is really developed. Maybe it's all being saved for the next book, I don't know. I don't actually know if I will get around to the sequel, and if I do, I think I'd probably go read a plot summary rather than reread the first one. Overall, The Bone Ships is okay; I don't know that I'd call it a fun read for me. I honestly had more fun reading A Clash of Steel by C.B. Lee, which is marketed as an Asian remix of Treasure Island based on the Chinese pirate queen Zheng Yi Sao (accurate), which managed to land on the right side of YA for me.
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Sep 12, 2022 05:11
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I've finished Snow Crash. Soaring highs and middling lows here. I liked this enough, however, that I'll read more of his stuff -- despite the daunting door-stop tomes. I have to disagree with the detractors who beat up on Neil Stephenson for his prose. I found his descriptions of bombastic set pieces both immediately engaging and clear to follow. It neither falls into overly verbose passages that drag with each act accounted for step by step, or disappearing into overly vague and even confusing descriptions. It's frenetic fun that moves with a rhythm. His descriptions of his world and the amount of research involved delivers impressive speculative fiction. I think he might have been the first to shorten pizza to za? Might need to fact check that one. Where the story does drag is the long meandering exposition dumps halfway through, where our Protagonist plays detective by pulling at threads where the relevance isn't immediately clear. It does eventually pay off pay off, but only in the form of more condensed exposition to explain the central McGuffin. Still, the weakest bit I found was the characterization. All of our characters are as two-dimensional as an avatar jacked into the Metaverse on a shaky internet connection. Every main character's base motivations is their horniness for another. It's a shame because Stephenson did a great job individualizing each character with distinct POVs, but no one really ever struggles or grows. Nobody even bothers to lament the state of their libertarian dystopia. I'm probably making it sound as if I liked this book a lot less than I did, but the missed opportunities are frustrating. The setting is solid. We can even look back and even call it prophetic. Stephenson juggles some big ideas here, but unfortunately it's mostly spectacle that never amounts to very much. Harold Fjord posted:If you are liking Snow Crash, you might like anything else he wrote. I'd stay away from DODO, Fall, and termination shock but otherwise go nuts. Actually Termination Shock was the one I was interested. Oops!
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Sep 12, 2022 11:10
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In my opinion Neal gets better - if never particularly great - at characterization, but he got a lot better at exposition dumps. And make no mistake, if you're reading a Stephenson book, you are going to get hot gushing gallons of sticky exposition splashed all over you. Honestly, he's an author with some serious (and consistent) flaws, but I will happily lap up whatever he publishes, because even with books that I find unsatisfying and rank low on my Neal Stephenson Tier List are still a good time and hit a lot of my buttons in a way that nobody else does. I will gladly go on record as saying his Baroque Cycle is high on my list of All Time books, though. Weird how the guy who initially hooked me with VR katana duels and nanobots somehow wrote my favorite historical fiction series of all time, but there you are. TBF I have had a difficult time finding historical fiction that isn't mostly romance novels with exceptionally complicated descriptions of clothing.
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Sep 12, 2022 12:26
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Anathem is a book that deserves the title spec fic rather than sci-fi. It's my favorite of Stephenson's works and I highly recommend it.
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Sep 12, 2022 13:03
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Lily Catts posted:mmm yeah I learned of that plot point and just noped out of the series altogether. When I read the plot summaries up it didn't seem like I missed out on a lot. I love the series and think there's a lot of value to be had in reading about characters who are unlikeable, but will also concede that I haven't re-read it since the first go-around when I was aged (checking the publication years) 21 to 26, and that might be a personal thing for me, and they might not hold up if I were to read them again now in my 30s. I definitely read them at the right time in my life. It was a good series for someone who had left university and moved across the country to "the big city" - and then to a bigger country and a bigger city, chasing the same dream - and was slowly realising that this alone would not give my life meaning. They tackled that sense of deflated ennui really well. (So do probably a thousand better books, but, hey, it's the SFF thread, and this was what I was reading.) The insufferable/unlikeable/entitled aspect of the characters struck a chord in me because I was starting to recognise those same traits in my own early 20s self, but I can 100% see how people at a different stage of life (or people who just weren't like in the first place at that age) immediately bounce off them. Thematic stuff aside though, there was also just heaps of cool fantasy poo poo in them, like the Son of Man magical incursion who eats a student alive in the first book, or the heist in the third.
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Sep 12, 2022 13:18
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Whale Vomit posted:I've finished Snow Crash. It has about as much intellectual depth as the 80s movies it's so inspired by, I think. Like it reminds me of the Running Man a lot, you know? There's a lot of things you could ask about why the world in that movie is like that but ultimately it doesn't matter because we're here to see Schwarzenegger beat the poo poo out of people. Same goes for snow crash and the ninja Mafia boss and Hiro
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Sep 12, 2022 13:28
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Whale Vomit posted:Actually Termination Shock was the one I was interested. Oops! Go for it, but know that it is INCREDIBLY BORING and his second or third worst book.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:36
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Sinatrapod posted:In my opinion Neal gets better - if never particularly great - at characterization, but he got a lot better at exposition dumps. And make no mistake, if you're reading a Stephenson book, you are going to get hot gushing gallons of sticky exposition splashed all over you. Honestly, he's an author with some serious (and consistent) flaws, but I will happily lap up whatever he publishes, because even with books that I find unsatisfying and rank low on my Neal Stephenson Tier List are still a good time and hit a lot of my buttons in a way that nobody else does. It's Stephenson, so it's not gallons, it's an Imperial Pint
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Sep 12, 2022 18:06
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The Blacktongue Thief by Christopher Buehlman - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GJQFFDX/ Certain Dark Things by Silvia Moreno-Garcia - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com//dp/B08F43JYDN/ The Ten Thousand Doors of January by Alix E Harrow - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M77XW56/ A Mirror Mended (Fractured Fables #2) by Alix E Harrow - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C4F5X1Q/ Two Laundry Files books by Charles Stross plus one standalone Quantum of Nightmares (#11) - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B099QJ6L88/ Escape from Yokai Land (#12) - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JK7TVXS/ Glasshouse - $4.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001161L6O/ The Burning God (Poppy War #3) by RF Kuang - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084VP8KNB/ Where the Drowned Girls Go (Wayward Children #7) by Seanan McGuire - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092T8CKS8/
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Sep 12, 2022 18:09
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Leng posted:I have now made it through to the end of The Bone Ships. Have you been sat on that post for two years?
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Sep 12, 2022 19:46
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habeasdorkus posted:Anathem is a book that deserves the title spec fic rather than sci-fi. It's my favorite of Stephenson's works and I highly recommend it.
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Sep 12, 2022 22:37
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I like anathem and all but what in the world is the distinction you’re trying to make there
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Sep 12, 2022 23:00
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Zoracle Zed posted:I like anathem and all but what in the world is the distinction you’re trying to make there It's not so much science fiction as applied Platonism.
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Sep 12, 2022 23:19
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It has a dork doing martial arts and people jumping between dimensions, it's not some kind of highly elevated slipstream literature. They go to space.
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Sep 13, 2022 01:08
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I read Blake Crouch's Upgrade. it's bad airport fiction but I was apparently in the mood for that, despite some incredibly dumb stuff in the plot. Any better recommendations for techno thrillers?
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Sep 13, 2022 01:47
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Have you been sat on that post for two years? It has been on the TBR for a while, yes. Possibly not two years, but usually when I finish a book I like to go back to do a search of the thread to see what's been said about it so far. Turns out I wasn't alone in my sentiments on the closing lines. 
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Sep 13, 2022 02:07
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Instead of nerding out about cryptography/WWII (Cryptonomicron) or metaverse/libertarianism (Snow Crash) or the history of financial systems/alchemy (Baroque Cycle) or nanomachines/China (The Diamond Age), Anathem is obsessively nerdy about philosophy/the Voynich manuscript.
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Sep 13, 2022 02:08
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AARD VARKMAN posted:I read Blake Crouch's Upgrade. it's bad airport fiction but I was apparently in the mood for that, despite some incredibly dumb stuff in the plot. Patrick Lee's trilogy that starts with "The Breach" and is about a government agency in charge of the aforementioned breach out of which weird devices from somewhere else materialize and various hijinks result when they fall into the wrong hands. Felt to me like the airport thriller version of the SCP website, which I mean entirely in a good way, and might scratch that itch.
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Sep 13, 2022 02:17
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General Battuta posted:It has a dork doing martial arts and people jumping between dimensions, it's not some kind of highly elevated slipstream literature. They go to space. I also don't consider your series to be fantasy so much as alt-universe historical fiction. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Sep 13, 2022 |
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Sep 13, 2022 02:38
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AARD VARKMAN posted:I read Blake Crouch's Upgrade. it's bad airport fiction but I was apparently in the mood for that, despite some incredibly dumb stuff in the plot. depends on how techno you like your thrillers, but i remember enjoying Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child - they’ve written both together and separately, so there are a lot of books to choose from in their back catalog nothing else comes to mind at the moment except The Gone World by Tom Sweterlitsch, but it’s more sedately plotted than i think you want, though i did enjoy the vibes overall i enjoy technothrillers a lot, but it’s a genre i have trouble recommending to people because so many of the books are just terrible 
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Sep 13, 2022 03:06
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AARD VARKMAN posted:I read Blake Crouch's Upgrade. it's bad airport fiction but I was apparently in the mood for that, despite some incredibly dumb stuff in the plot. I recall enjoying the hell out of Daemon and Freedom by Daniel Suarez. I really need to check out more of his stuff now that I've remembered him but Nona comes tomorrow.
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Sep 13, 2022 03:42
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habeasdorkus posted:I also don't consider your series to be fantasy so much as science fiction.
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Sep 13, 2022 06:32
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I don't want to bring up a sore subject but lmao Destiny was always considered to be fantasy more than science fiction.
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Sep 13, 2022 06:55
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I mean, wasn't there literally a line about a wizard in the moon? I may be confusing it for another game. The Breach books are awesome, and the others he's written are pretty great. I'd heartily recommend them to anyone wanting a techno thriller airport kinda book.
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Sep 13, 2022 07:23
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Wizard flag on the moon. How'd it get there.
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Sep 13, 2022 07:29
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90s Cringe Rock posted:baru is going to space any page now
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Sep 13, 2022 12:01
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AARD VARKMAN posted:I read Blake Crouch's Upgrade. it's bad airport fiction but I was apparently in the mood for that, despite some incredibly dumb stuff in the plot. I haven't read Upgrade but did like some of Crouch's other stuff. Definitely not ~literature~, but some really cool ideas and pretty entertaining.
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Sep 13, 2022 12:33
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AARD VARKMAN posted:Any better recommendations for techno thrillers? Everyone posted:I recall enjoying the hell out of Daemon and Freedom by Daniel Suarez. You beat me to this recommendation. I second this duology.
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Sep 13, 2022 15:26
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McCoy Pauley posted:Patrick Lee's trilogy that starts with "The Breach" and is about a government agency in charge of the aforementioned breach out of which weird devices from somewhere else materialize and various hijinks result when they fall into the wrong hands. Felt to me like the airport thriller version of the SCP website, which I mean entirely in a good way, and might scratch that itch. this sounds awesome and i alt tabbed to buy it on Kindle immediately  shelley posted:depends on how techno you like your thrillers, but i remember enjoying Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child - they’ve written both together and separately, so there are a lot of books to choose from in their back catalog I read The Gone World and liked it a lot, I guess I'm looking for technothriller/... "story where Some Crazy Technology Advance Causes Issues". like Limitless (which Upgrade is basically a rip off of)
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Sep 13, 2022 15:30
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Everyone posted:I recall enjoying the hell out of Daemon and Freedom by Daniel Suarez. bought, looks good!!! Armauk posted:Have you read Crouch's other books: Dark Matter or Recursion? I read both of them, better than Upgrade but Upgrade was unrepentantly stupid in a way I just respect more than Dark Matter for some reason. also holy poo poo this article is 2 weeks old quote:Fans of Wayward Pines will be excited to learn that another twisty, sci-fi novel by author Blake Crouch is being adapted as a television series, this time starring Academy Award-winner Jennifer Connelly for Apple TV+. e: should mention Pattern Recognition and The Peripheral by William Gibson, as well as Lockout by John Scalzi and other ones I remember liking. will keep thinking 
AARD VARKMAN fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Sep 13, 2022 |
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Sep 13, 2022 15:37
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AARD VARKMAN posted:bought, looks good!!! If you have the time/inclination, give us your thoughts as you go. I recall really liking them but it's possible that I have no taste.
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Sep 13, 2022 17:19
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Blake Crouch seems to write in a very YA'ish style that grates on me. I still read a bunch of his books though, he keeps things moving. Also, I apologize for blaming him I think here for the infuriatingly bad Punch Escrow.
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Sep 13, 2022 17:27
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