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Everyone posted:I think the leak is BS. I have several problems with it. First, why is Sauron on a rickety raft with a bunch of other people in the middle of the ocean. Why would Sauron save Galadrial? It makes more sense that Halbrand is "jonesing for a forge" because he wants to start a new life in Numenor and leave his "kingly destiny" far behind. I kind of agree. It seems easier to predict what will happen if the story is an adaptation of a 50+ year old book (appendices). I do think there's no way that Adar is Sauron. Too on the nose, and I think a bait and switch works great for Sauron's character as a shape shifter. Also, I can't see him just hanging out with the orcs in the Southlands.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:13
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You know, all things considered, and despite the timeline fuckery, I'm enjoying the show. The hobbit plotline is actually my favorite right now. The mystery dude has got to be a Maiar of some kind, right? Maybe even a Wizard who accidentally showed up an Age early, what with the Gandalf-like trick of talking to bugs. I think the compression of centuries is kind of the cost of turning a centuries-spanning epic (which tbf probably suffers from fantasy time expansion anyways) is probably fair for a TV adaptation. If you want to cover the Second Age's greatest hits, you either have single-topic seasons or do compression like this.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:23
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the last episode i thought was worse than the first two. galadriel's dialogue and characterization continue to suck, halbrand feels and sounds like a GOT character and pharazon didnt even get a proper introduction. i want him (and the other characters) to be larger than life, a big scheming usurping rear end in a top hat who just takes what he wants and declares the death of god, not some mumbling fat guy
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Sep 12, 2022 16:25
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dwarf74 posted:You know, all things considered, and despite the timeline fuckery, I'm enjoying the show. the only major event that will suffer from it is the War of the Elves and Sauron. there really is not any other major event during the second age that can't just be told in one Numenorean lifetime. I think it's just going to be one big war that starts with the rings being forged and ends in Numenor's destruction. The only other thing is the friendship between the elves of Eregion and the dwarves of Khazad-Dum, but in terms of a tv show forcing it to overlong and include a bunch of flashbacks or something to get that across would be awkward
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Sep 12, 2022 16:44
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I'm probably alone with this thinking, but it would have really set this adaptation apart to have taken on the unique challenge of the source material instead of taking the easy cop-out. Having a steady cast of elves and a rotating cast of human descendants tackling events and issues together would have emphasized the driving source of conflict of this age--the misunderstanding and lack of empathy between elves and humans on their respective fates. They should have given audiences more credit and written to that conflict instead of tunnel-visioning on rings.
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Sep 12, 2022 17:07
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The Crown for The First Age or JoJo's Bizarre Adventures in Middle Earth.
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Sep 12, 2022 17:28
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Kind of like with 'Obi-Wan', I hate that I agree with the worst people on the internet about something even if it's for different reasons. Unfortunately with this show so far it's worse than bad -- bad might be interesting, or at least entertaining -- this is just alternately boring and mediocre. If it doesn't get a lot better soon this will just be completely forgotten as soon as it's over.
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Sep 12, 2022 17:43
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https://twitter.com/LiterallyAKing/status/1569059334180540416?s=20&t=tpJVp34rUR8tF3niQYFAqg
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Sep 12, 2022 18:24
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, if we're doing book pics I have a timely post  The bootleg books. It's the american first editions that was published without Tolkien's permission because he didn't want paperback editions of his books.  This edition requires some explanation. In Norway we have two official versions of written norwegian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language#Bokm%C3%A5l_and_Nynorsk. The Lord of the Rings have always been translated in the bokmål version and this is the first translation in nynorsk. And to make it even more complicated the translator decided that he would also try to figure out which norwegian dialect the characters would speak in. He also had to come up with translations of names like Shelob (he ultimately went with the Web Hag which is an old norwegian word for spider). Alhazred fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 18:50
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Imagined posted:Kind of like with 'Obi-Wan', I hate that I agree with the worst people on the internet about something even if it's for different reasons. Once again Fury Road was prophetic in MEDIOCRE being the worst possible outcome that a thing could be.
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Sep 12, 2022 19:46
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Imagined posted:Kind of like with 'Obi-Wan', I hate that I agree with the worst people on the internet about something even if it's for different reasons. p much this jeeves posted:Once again Fury Road was prophetic in MEDIOCRE being the worst possible outcome that a thing could be. exactly
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Sep 12, 2022 20:05
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Pioneer42 posted:I'm probably alone with this thinking, but it would have really set this adaptation apart to have taken on the unique challenge of the source material instead of taking the easy cop-out. Having a steady cast of elves and a rotating cast of human descendants tackling events and issues together would have emphasized the driving source of conflict of this age--the misunderstanding and lack of empathy between elves and humans on their respective fates. They should have given audiences more credit and written to that conflict instead of tunnel-visioning on rings. i agree that would have been cool
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Sep 12, 2022 20:59
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Yeah, I think the series would have benefit from embracing the thousands of years and not trying to time-compress -- having elves be constant while men come and go would have been interesting to see. And showcasing the slow corruption and fall of Numenor would have been great as well. Do we know what they actually have rights to, though? I saw this quote: quote:As for what they have the rights to, Payne relayed, “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit. And that is it.” Why would you do a show about the Second Age without rights to the source material for most of the Second Age? This is somewhat baffling.
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Sep 12, 2022 21:20
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Time kompression is a prudent change to make when adapting into a medium based on actors sharing scenes and exchanging dialogue. A rotating cast of humans opposite a constant cast of immortals would be pretty avant-garde for a mass-market show, cool as it would be. We'll always have the books. Try to judge it as what it is, not in comparison to what we imagine it could be.
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Sep 12, 2022 21:36
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alcaras posted:Yeah, I think the series would have benefit from embracing the thousands of years and not trying to time-compress -- having elves be constant while men come and go would have been interesting to see. And showcasing the slow corruption and fall of Numenor would have been great as well. yeah, it really doesn't make any sense
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Sep 12, 2022 21:37
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alcaras posted:Why would you do a show about the Second Age without rights to the source material for most of the Second Age? This is somewhat baffling. Isn't BoundingIntoComics one of those makes poo poo up ComicsGate adjacent websites? Anyway, the Appendices have the entire outline of the story they're telling so saying they don't have the rights to the Second Age is...odd.
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Sep 12, 2022 21:44
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ChubbyChecker posted:yeah, it really doesn't make any sense Figure along with being a show, Rings of Power is a "proof of concept" to the Tolkien estate/family that Amazon can be trusted with Tolkien's work. So that in the future Amazon will get the other rights. Opera version of Silmarillion when?
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Sep 12, 2022 22:14
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The sad condition of the contemporary media landscape is that everything has to double as a commercial for itself.
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Sep 12, 2022 22:26
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howe_sam posted:Isn't BoundingIntoComics one of those makes poo poo up ComicsGate adjacent websites?. I have no idea what ComicsGate even is and am afraid to ask. I just googled and it was a top hit :-/
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Sep 12, 2022 22:39
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Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 23:04
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The answer to why they did it is really simple. The rights for a TV show adaptation based on the content contained in The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings were the only rights that were for sale through the Tolkien Estate (they don’t own film and video game rights) and the second age storyline is probably the best untold story that you could even pull off from that source material. It contains people and places the general public are familiar with and they were given free reign to fill in any gaps as they saw fit. Amazon bought the rights to the books well before they knew what they were going to do with them. Seemingly dozens of presentations were made by different creators and they chose these two guys because they liked their idea to tell the story of the Second Age the most. The Silmarillion rights are not for sale so this is your only hope of seeing anything before the Third Age on screen anytime within the next 5 years probably. So again, this was the only interesting story to tell within the rights available that hadn’t been seen yet.
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Sep 12, 2022 23:33
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alcaras posted:Why would you do a show about the Second Age without rights to the source material for most of the Second Age? This is somewhat baffling. Because the appendix gives enough framework to structure a story that will mostly be invented scenarios set against the known story. The story as we have it would not take very long to film and show unless the battle sequences were 30 minutes long every time. The majority of peaceful times could only take up so much screen time, and then have the forging of the rings and the war, then 1k years of stalemate as Numenor falls to the kings men, and then Ar-Pharazon easily conquers Mordor, Sauron corrupts him for 200 years and then the island sinks. The missed opportunity is compressing it to the point that Sauron's return will only be a little bit before being taken to Numenor, and skipping the 1k years after the War of Elves and Sauron wherein there was a time when various adventures could be described. But we also don't actually know how the whole thing will go yet, so who knows how it will happen.
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Sep 13, 2022 04:30
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howe_sam posted:Isn't BoundingIntoComics one of those makes poo poo up ComicsGate adjacent websites? Yes it is. It is absolutely completely unreliable anytime you use the word woman or minority. They are not above making up 'news' out of whole cloth.
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Sep 13, 2022 08:54
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Get ready for some Tolkien overload, today I received the second batch of my shopping spree. The final one, The Complete Guide to Middle-earth: The Definitive Guide to the World of J.R.R. Tolkien by Robert Foster, will be released on Sept. 29th and that should complete my collection for the near future. Also bought some more books written by Rudolf Simek, an Austrian scholar specialized in German mythology. I think I mentioned him a few pages ago, because I enjoyed his Tolkien work so much and I wanted to read more of his works. If you are interested in any of these I can provide the ISBN-13 numbers.    
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Sep 13, 2022 12:59
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Mahoning posted:. Tolkien's works should come out of copyright in, what, 2043? Not sure if it's different for posthumously published stuff. We may all live long enough to see some really, really, really dumb poo poo
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Sep 13, 2022 13:05
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If our civilization is still capable of making dumb fantasy TV shows in 2043 I'll consider us very lucky.
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Sep 13, 2022 14:05
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Tolkien's works should come out of copyright in, what, 2043? Not sure if it's different for posthumously published stuff. Save us Disney
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Sep 13, 2022 16:23
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The need to give any future work to the team that made The Green Knight. Edit: to elaborate a bit, The Green Knight was able to pull off an almost seamless blend of reality and mythology that makes for a perfect fit for first age material. The movie also showed that there is a way to deviate and adapt source material that is both new and conversational, yet simultaneously respectful. And the visuals and music were beautiful. Pioneer42 fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Sep 13, 2022 |
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Sep 13, 2022 19:06
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I started reading Stuart's book on race and racism in ME. The 13 pages of introduction alone have 2 pages of notes and another 2.5 pages of bibliography. Stuart is serious about his work.Pioneer42 posted:The need to give any future work to the team that made The Green Knight. Oh yes, as I recently said to someone when we talked about Arthurian myths - "The only movies I allow are Knights of the Round Table (1953), Excalibur (1981), and The Green Knight". Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Sep 13, 2022 |
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Sep 13, 2022 19:18
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Pioneer42 posted:The need to give any future work to the team that made The Green Knight. Big big big agree
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Sep 13, 2022 21:20
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Shibawanko posted:the last episode i thought was worse than the first two. galadriel's dialogue and characterization continue to suck, halbrand feels and sounds like a GOT character and pharazon didnt even get a proper introduction. i want him (and the other characters) to be larger than life, a big scheming usurping rear end in a top hat who just takes what he wants and declares the death of god, not some mumbling fat guy Ar pharazons characterization as a profligate deathly-afraid-to-die proto-Boomer comes from Unfinished Tales, in this show's source material he is "the last name on the list" and comes with the energy you'd expect Everyone posted:Figure along with being a show, Rings of Power is a "proof of concept" to the Tolkien estate/family that Amazon can be trusted with Tolkien's work. So that in the future Amazon will get the other rights. Opera version of Silmarillion when? Then they should probably not have jumped right into presenting Valinor as a weird way to euthanize renegade, maverick cops who refuse to hang up their badge Mameluke fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 13, 2022 |
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Sep 13, 2022 22:11
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So far that bit and Galadriel's lack of wisdom to temper her anger are my main issues with the show. Everything else I'm so far on board with, even if I feel some stuff could be handled better.
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Sep 13, 2022 22:42
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Arc Hammer posted:So far that bit and Galadriel's lack of wisdom to temper her anger are my main issues with the show. Everything else I'm so far on board with, even if I feel some stuff could be handled better.
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Sep 14, 2022 00:02
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Pioneer42 posted:The need to give any future work to the team that made The Green Knight. David Lowry would make a great film and I'd love it, but man would most Tolkien fans be pissed. He views adaptations as vehicles to reimagine stories with his own themes and messages and doesn't consider adherence to the original plot beats or lore to be at all important. That resulted in two fresh and fantastic films with Pete's Dragon and The Green Knight. Doubtlessly it will again with the upcoming Peter Pan. But man, imagine the nerds' rage if he takes that approach to Tolkien. To be clear, I'd be 10000% in if he did get to adapt a Tolkien story, popular opinions be damned. Bring on the 10-minute single-shot take of Galadriel eating a cake while crying.
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Sep 14, 2022 01:15
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dwarf74 posted:I can see that, but leaving room for a character to grow and develop is just part of making an ongoing TV series, so I think that's another one of those necessary changes. And seeing some familiar characters from the movies is part of that same bargain, too, so while they could definitely make a new elf, Galadriel and Elrond it is. (Oh and Celebrimbor from some recent games, too.) Well the problem here is that elves in general are rather set in their ways, compared to hobbits, humans and even dwarves. Portraying Galadriel like a character in the genre of the Bildungsroman (or coming-of-age novel) just feels off for an elven leader who is already thousands of years old. And I absolutely hate how the show has twisted her personality, I know this has already been discussed ad nauseam, but one cannot drive that point home often enough. Shameless repost of some lore:  Unfinished Tales; HarperCollins UK; Illustrated Deluxe Slipcased edition (1. October 2020), page 249 I just hope that the Tolkien Estate sits on the remaining rights forever. Otherwise we will get the full Disney-fication of Tolkien's work, an endless series of soulless corporate abominations until the last dollar and the last shred of creativity has been drained from the source material til nothing remains. I don't mind a reimagination of Tolkien's work. But a certain respect towards the source material needs to be preserved if filmmakers want to create a movie or series in Tolkien's fantasy world. If a director or writer wants to dismiss everything that characterizes Middle Earth, then why even keep the name, except for brand recognition and marketing purposes? At that point it would be better to come up with a new world, but that's something a creatively bankrupt Hollywood is no longer capable of. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Sep 14, 2022 |
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Sep 14, 2022 08:01
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That's a description of the character before she spent centuries in a forever war against a god, in which time the brother that passage specifically calls out as closest to her heart was murdered by the guy she's now hunting. These events should have had no effect on her I guess, she should just be basically the same person from Valinor -> Fellowship?
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Sep 14, 2022 12:23
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That was also never published by Tolkien so idk. It’s a lot different than changing something from Lord of the Rings for example. But even that can be justified by adaptation to television .
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Sep 14, 2022 12:25
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Maybe it’s just me but that description of Galadriel is so boring and dripping of Virgin Mary BS. I had enough of that going through 13 years of Catholic school. I would not watch a show with that description of the main character.
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Sep 14, 2022 12:29
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Says clearly that the shadow of the same evil that overcame Feanor's had fallen on the minds of all the Noldor, including her own, and that she was unaware of it. That's easy enough to expand a bit and make her a bit monomaniacal in terms of her hunting Sauron and then have her back off. Also that's way more interesting than "she was just loving great all the time".
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Sep 14, 2022 12:37
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Ravenfood posted:Also that's way more interesting than "she was just loving great all the time". well she married teleporno
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Sep 14, 2022 12:39
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