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leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
I usually just use linkedin

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Jul 18, 2003

America Inc. posted:

Has anyone here used Hired to find jobs? I'm currently looking for a Front-End Web job. For me, I think Hired would be useful just to get a larger potential pool of companies I can apply for.

I have, their platform doesn't do remote great and I've got a suspicion that companies are getting access to the min salary field somehow. It's not a bad way to find employers in the 50-200 range if that's your interest.

BadSamaritan
May 2, 2008

crumb by crumb in this big black forest


Looking for some advice on getting into software engineering- I’m a licensed/certified healthcare worker (lab, not md/rn), currently work in an analyst IT role in a hospital with 5yoe, but I feel like it’s a dead end in both skills/career development and pay. I’m currently in part time school for an IT master’s, and am changing my focus to include more coding/software dev courses because it is apparently fun for me. I end up coding on my lunch break because I genuinely like to.

I’ve been messing around with Javascript and React and really like it, but I’ve got no idea what ‘good enough’ is in order to work as a junior developer. I’ve written a couple single page React app sites but don’t know where to go from here.

I guess I’m just hazy on where my skills should be in order to do this professionally. I’ve snagged some projects from our informatics/internal software group and can hopefully try out some light Python/data science work (I have a rusty background in linear algebra/stats that I’ve never gotten to use professionally), but I’m at a loss as to how and when to make the jump if this connection doesn’t pan out.

Any advice? I feel like I just have this mishmash of background that should be helpful but falls short of being convincing to employers.

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
Can you use Javascript/React/whatever to do some automation at your current job? Using that to tell a story about how you accomplished something faster and more reliably will go way farther than saying you took some programming classes

Harriet Carker
Jun 2, 2009

BadSamaritan posted:

I’ve got no idea what ‘good enough’ is in order to work as a junior developer. I’ve written a couple single page React app sites

This is most likely good enough. Polish them up a bit, post your resume (and apps if you want) here for some critique, do some studying on LeetCode so you know how to solve common interview problems, and start applying!

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

I would work on polishing your python skills, they are in demand, and will pay better in the long run, JavaScript and react will get you pigeonholed as a front end dev, which is better than QA but not a lot

Harriet Carker
Jun 2, 2009

Hadlock posted:

front end dev, which is better than QA but not a lot

This viewpoint comes up in this thread here and there and it’s complete nonsense. Frontend work is in super high demand and people who can do it well are rare and paid accordingly.

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

Harriet Carker posted:

This viewpoint comes up in this thread here and there and it’s complete nonsense. Frontend work is in super high demand and people who can do it well are rare and paid accordingly.

Agree pretty strongly on this. I'm a "full stack" developer in the sense that I can muddle through front end work and do a lovely job at it. I'd kill to have a competent front end person who could do far better work in a quarter of the time it would take me.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Harriet Carker posted:

people who can do [front end work] well are rare and paid accordingly.

I don't disagree with this statement

For every front end principal, though, there are 10+ monkeys changing colors of buttons and fonts to meet accessibility standards

Principals get paid well regardless of what they're doing, usually, I'm not sure that's a profound statement

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
Being a lead front end person is fun because building interfaces is fun. Building api integrations is boring.

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters
all the fiddly, mind numbing poo poo you have to do to make a smooth, polished interface? gently caress all that tbh

BadSamaritan
May 2, 2008

crumb by crumb in this big black forest


Thanks everyone. I’m working on polishing up what I’ve worked on and I’ll try testing the waters. Definitely have to practice leetcode stuff because right now it’s pretty difficult for me.

And as to frontend vs Python, that’s kind of a reflection of what I feel I don’t know about this field as work vs as a self-directed project. Right now I’m liking frontend because it feels more ‘complete’- I can go from an idea to something with an interface that looks ‘real’ from my perspective as a user. But it obviously has its limitations and I don’t know how that will change my perspective on it long-term.

Regardless, I think it’ll be easier to make career shifts from active work inside the field than from where I am now, so I’m trying to avoid overthinking it at this point.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

redleader posted:

all the fiddly, mind numbing poo poo you have to do to make a smooth, polished interface? gently caress all that tbh

no it's fun actually

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon

Hadlock posted:

For every front end principal, though, there are 10+ monkeys changing colors of buttons and fonts to meet accessibility standards

And they still get paid a ton more than their non-programmer peers. JavaScript monkeys are in high demand.

Vincent Valentine
Feb 28, 2006

Murdertime

Everything about being pigeon-holed into front-end work loving owns. I can't say I'd ever want to be principal, though, so I'm biased. A whole lotta work there, and for what? A shitload of money? Come on.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
I don't mind back-end programming but gently caress devops/infra stuff. Opening the AWS console makes me want to die.

Harriet Carker
Jun 2, 2009

prom candy posted:

I don't mind back-end programming but gently caress devops/infra stuff. Opening the AWS console makes me want to die.

:cry:

I’m a front end dev on the AWS console home page haha.

I guess you mean more actually using AWS services than a specific problem with the console?

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Vincent Valentine posted:

Everything about being pigeon-holed into front-end work loving owns. I can't say I'd ever want to be principal, though, so I'm biased. A whole lotta work there, and for what? A shitload of money? Come on.

lol @ principal being more work. unless your principal engineers have to do HR bullshit/managerial stuff, in which case they really are the worst job in all software, the software development manager.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Harriet Carker posted:

:cry:

I’m a front end dev on the AWS console home page haha.

I guess you mean more actually using AWS services than a specific problem with the console?

Yeah it's not that I hate the console in particular, I think it does the best it can with the job it has. I just hate messing with dev ops stuff and AWS is really complicated. Definitely can't blame the front end team for how Amazon structures its offering. It's more that when I open the console it means I'm about to spend an hour or two staring at poo poo that I don't understand and don't particularly want to understand.

Daviclond
May 20, 2006

Bad post sighted! Firing.
If you're manually maintaining infra on your cloud provider's console you're doing it wrong. Learn infra-as-code and use terraform, life will be better. You will still occasionally lose half a day to random bullshit, but it will be way better.

Magnetic North
Dec 15, 2008

Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Daviclond posted:

If you're manually maintaining infra on your cloud provider's console you're doing it wrong. Learn infra-as-code and use terraform, life will be better. You will still occasionally lose half a day to random bullshit, but it will be way better.

This. I suck at DevOps so when I deployed a change to Dev, I broke something. I debugged it, found the issue and changed the missing config manually on the deployed Dev service instead of updating the pipeline and redeploying. Then, long enough passed by the time it went to QA that the same issue happened, I forgot and re-debugged it, re-found the issue and I again updated it manually. Then on release day, of course it's loving broken on prod. If I just changed the loving pipelines from jump street, I would have saved us all tons of pain.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Daviclond posted:

If you're manually maintaining infra on your cloud provider's console you're doing it wrong. Learn infra-as-code and use terraform, life will be better. You will still occasionally lose half a day to random bullshit, but it will be way better.

I also hate terraform. I just don't like doing devops but I always work at tiny companies and so I end up having to do it. I like wearing a lot of hats, just not that one.

Ither
Jan 30, 2010

I'm a backend guy.

My favorite jobs are the ones that allow me to be a backend code monkey.

Frontend? I dislike Javascript. Waiting for front end Java to make a come back (Vaadin? WebAssembly?)

Devops? I hate having to thing about deployments/config.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Daviclond posted:

If you're manually maintaining infra on your cloud provider's console you're doing it wrong. Learn infra-as-code and use terraform, life will be better. You will still occasionally lose half a day to random bullshit, but it will be way better.

I mean technically it's sustainable for about a year before you get burnt out and quit, or you need a specific level of job security and you're the only one who knows how to fix it

I'm not a huge fan of terraform but it does a pretty good job of maintaining very stateful infrastructure, there are some custom stuff like pulumi that allows you to wrap your terraform providers in stuff like python, go

Infra as code means your $2 billion a year company can be run from a group of 2-5 people rather than scale linearly to a division of like 30 people. The sre group to keep Gmail up and running is like six people

I'm glad you guys don't like doing devops, I'll keep cashing those paychecks

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Hadlock posted:

I'm glad you guys don't like doing devops, I'll keep cashing those paychecks

What's your consulting fee?

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon

Hadlock posted:

The sre group to keep Gmail up and running is like six people

Really?

Like, before I start using this anecdote all over the place… Really?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


That could be technically true due to something about the way Google manages its SREs but I'm thinking it comes with a pretty big asterisk.

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
It doesn't include the SREs that manage the underlying services that Gmail is built on top of.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

lifg posted:

Really?

Like, before I start using this anecdote all over the place… Really?

No I'm just guessing. It is a mature Google service though and likely dictates/ed a lot of the Borg design. That you can imagine it though, sort of illustrates the power of infrastructure as code though

prom candy posted:

What's your consulting fee?

Pretty decent but not pulling down L5 tc googs yet

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon

Hadlock posted:

No I'm just guessing. It is a mature Google service though and likely dictates/ed a lot of the Borg design. That you can imagine it though, sort of illustrates the power of infrastructure as code though

Ah, still neat.

I would believe any story I heard about Google SRE. From an outsiders perspective, their whole world looks amazing.

durrneez
Feb 20, 2013

I like fish. I like to eat fish. I like to brush fish with a fish hairbrush. Do you like fish too?

Hadlock posted:

This is my preferred system design cheatsheet

https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer



I studied the materials in this repo and rocked my backend jr dev technical. Took me about a week of hard cramming to get the material tailored for short-term studying and then I did a mock interview with someone.

Vincent Valentine
Feb 28, 2006

Murdertime

Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:

lol @ principal being more work. unless your principal engineers have to do HR bullshit/managerial stuff, in which case they really are the worst job in all software, the software development manager.

At the places I've worked, the principal engineers have two major things that separate them from the regular engineers.

First: Any time there is an emergency, it's their problem.
Second: Endless meetings.

I like just getting my dumb little tickets at the start of a sprint and doing my dumb little tickets over the next week or two and that if I finish early I can clock out early without having to be prepared to go to more meetings or put out a fire.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Do they at least get to delegate the emergencies?

America Inc.
Nov 22, 2013

I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even 500 would be pretty nice.
What sites would you guys recommend for doing mock interviews?

Edit: I'm looking at interviewing.io and pramp, and the prices they charge for mock interviews - ouch!

America Inc. fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Sep 15, 2022

Vincent Valentine
Feb 28, 2006

Murdertime

ultrafilter posted:

Do they at least get to delegate the emergencies?

Yeah, I've been delegated too occasionally but tbh they almost always just handle it themselves. I don't know if that's out of courtesy or just because they believe they shouldn't unless they absolutely have to. I've only worked at two companies, though, so your mileage may vary.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

America Inc. posted:

What sites would you guys recommend for doing mock interviews?

Edit: I'm looking at interviewing.io and pramp, and the prices they charge for mock interviews - ouch!

Pick a few places you're not interested in. Real practice is free.

roomtone
Jul 1, 2021

by Fluffdaddy
has anyone had success getting a unity developer job? junior/entry level, whatever.

i worked as a dev briefly but it was about 4 years ago and unity is the only thing i've really kept up with in that time, so i'm pretty good with that and would be starting from much farther back with anything else. i mean i can write c# code but i don't really know .net, forgot what i did know.

it seems like it would be a job i'd like to do, but i'm not sure how easy it is to get a job working in unity. so that's why i ask if anybody is working as a unity dev, has, or is also seeking.

durrneez
Feb 20, 2013

I like fish. I like to eat fish. I like to brush fish with a fish hairbrush. Do you like fish too?

Vincent Valentine posted:

I like just getting my dumb little tickets at the start of a sprint and doing my dumb little tickets over the next week or two and that if I finish early I can clock out early without having to be prepared to go to more meetings or put out a fire.

My manager asked me this week where I see myself in 5 years and honestly, this but with mentoring juniors. I want to be important enough to not lay off but not so important that I’m in endless meetings or can’t take a vacation and can get about 3 hours a day without any Slack notifications.

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Vincent Valentine posted:

First: Any time there is an emergency, it's their problem.

Correct, that's my job. It's effectively glorified third level support.

But I don't go to any regular meetings - because I just deal with emergencies, what's the point of a scrum meeting? All I do are emergencies, code review, proof of concept code, and white papers on technical direction. No scrum meetings, no checking anything into production, no deadlines, no routine bullshit.

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leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

roomtone posted:

has anyone had success getting a unity developer job? junior/entry level, whatever.

i worked as a dev briefly but it was about 4 years ago and unity is the only thing i've really kept up with in that time, so i'm pretty good with that and would be starting from much farther back with anything else. i mean i can write c# code but i don't really know .net, forgot what i did know.

it seems like it would be a job i'd like to do, but i'm not sure how easy it is to get a job working in unity. so that's why i ask if anybody is working as a unity dev, has, or is also seeking.

I manage teams of unity developers. No open headcount at the moment though.

You'll almost certainly have a tech interview in C#, probably using hackerrank or similar. Any concrete questions?

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