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In the Japan stream they demonstrate a really silly exploit where they intentionally provoke a revolution by repeatedly promoting and firing high level generals from a certain interest group. Martin said he'd leave it in for the release but made a note to fix it later on. It's pretty hilarious and gamey but very on point for PDX.  EDIT: INTENSE BATTLE -> Depicted as a strenuous argument over the fireplace 
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Sep 13, 2022 15:20
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Randallteal posted:It seems like Crusader Kings 3 was always on sale for a few bucks off somewhere in the months after release. https://isthereanydeal.com/game/crusaderkingsiii/history/ Good to know we won't have to pay full price for Vicky 3 even after release.
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Sep 13, 2022 15:28
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DrSunshine posted:In the Japan stream they demonstrate a really silly exploit where they intentionally provoke a revolution by repeatedly promoting and firing high level generals from a certain interest group. Martin said he'd leave it in for the release but made a note to fix it later on. It's pretty hilarious and gamey but very on point for PDX. “IF YOU SAY ‘SIKE’ TO ME ONE MORE TIME ABRAHAM I WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MY RESPONSE” Geo. MacLellen three days before filing to run for president.
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Sep 13, 2022 15:49
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In the stream it seems like there's a few balance issues to make before release too. The suppression of opposition groups seems to be in a really short timer after they lose a revolution, leading to something like three civil wars in like 10 years.
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Sep 13, 2022 15:54
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The pop growth, or lack thereof, seems to be an issue too, SoL went up and was around 9.5 before they started trying to instigate a revolution, but population went down by a million over the first 10 years
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Sep 13, 2022 17:07
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Is there really a lot of jungle in Japan?
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Sep 13, 2022 17:16
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Achernar posted:
Googling "Kansai jungle" produces a number of forested areas that look similar to the picture above. I think there's some jungle terrain on Okinawa/some of the Kurils too.
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Sep 13, 2022 17:20
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Achernar posted:
Technically there's parts of the US that are jungle. It gets extra interesting when we start talking about warm and cold rainforests as well
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Sep 13, 2022 17:55
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Googling "Kansai jungle" produces a number of forested areas that look similar to the picture above. I think there's some jungle terrain on Okinawa/some of the Kurils too. The Kurils are above Hokkaido it's cold
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Sep 13, 2022 17:58
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Maybe it's a seasonal jungle, a jungle in the summer and a pine forest in the winter.
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Sep 13, 2022 18:05
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Gaius Marius posted:The Kurils are above Hokkaido it's cold Whoops! Meant to say Ryukyus.
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Sep 13, 2022 18:13
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DrSunshine posted:In the Japan stream they demonstrate a really silly exploit where they intentionally provoke a revolution by repeatedly promoting and firing high level generals from a certain interest group. Martin said he'd leave it in for the release but made a note to fix it later on. It's pretty hilarious and gamey but very on point for PDX. Seems like it'd be easy to fix with a cooldown similar to the "monarch appointing a new party everyday" trick in older v2, I guess leaving it in could lead to quicker overall scope playtime and the finding of more critical bugs?
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Sep 13, 2022 18:13
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Genuinly looking forward to this game. Looks really cool so far. Have they mentioned anything about out of sync issues in MP? And are there lobbys, hotjoins etc?
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Sep 13, 2022 20:21
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Lol @ the bandit intelligentsia leader in the stream
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Sep 13, 2022 22:08
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I think they prefer "well read disruptive entrepreneur"
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Sep 13, 2022 22:22
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wiz staring directly at the camera, eyes wide open and never blinking, was extremely funny lmao
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Sep 14, 2022 01:55
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The UK taking Hong Kong and Guizhou was very funny. Someone telegraphed the fleet to take Guangzhou and made a terrible mistake.
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Sep 14, 2022 02:37
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The Japan stream really made the game look fun. Just constantly building up your economic web of products to make number go up, trying to pass reforms, just generally growing and plotting and having a good time. Also I enjoyed the comment about napoleon being famous for being a man with a huge horse and a single long leg.
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Sep 14, 2022 04:56
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yeah and unlike v2 japan doesn't look boring at all. lots of limitations in place to keep you from just blasting the tokugawa out of power immediately (assuming the bugs are fixed) and plenty of interesting economic decisions to make even without any access to trade or much to do diplomatically early on
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Sep 14, 2022 05:24
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In video games I'm used to shortages being an issue. It's totally intuitive- if you don't have enough stuff you can't do other stuff. It's bad. But I think Victoria 3 is the only game where a surplus is such an issue. If you make too much iron the price goes down, and if the price is too low the mines can't afford to pay their workers and that can end up loving everything up. It's very logical but not all that intuitive. It's really neat!
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Sep 14, 2022 06:06
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It was cool how Japan’s political and economic backwardness seems like a genuinely interesting political puzzle requiring a bunch of improvisation to tackle. Also, (what I’m assuming is) the main theme sounds fantastic.
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Sep 14, 2022 06:28
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Eiba posted:In video games I'm used to shortages being an issue. It's totally intuitive- if you don't have enough stuff you can't do other stuff. It's bad. i was gonna argue it's perfectly intuitive, but i remember someone in the EU4 thread years ago demanding everyone agree that, in fact, diminishing returns was inherently unrealistic and made no sense. so yeah, maybe unintuitive, but also neat 
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Sep 14, 2022 06:28
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Lady Radia posted:i was gonna argue it's perfectly intuitive, but i remember someone in the EU4 thread years ago demanding everyone agree that, in fact, diminishing returns was inherently unrealistic and made no sense. so yeah, maybe unintuitive, In Victoria you can make more stuff and crash an industry. It's especially obvious when starting them out. Maybe your first coal mine only makes a tiny profit as people just use a little bit of the stuff for heating. You build a second mine and now coal's so cheap that both mines crash and burn (so to speak), being unable to employ people who could actually make a living doing any number of other things. I guess it's not just surpluses being bad- goods being too cheap for any reason is bad. Obviously it's something you can fix quite profitably by increasing consumption, but it's still a novel set of incentives as far as I can tell. If your tool industry is struggling you can tell your lumber mills to use saws. This might make your lumber industry a lot less profitable, but it might be worth it to shore up your tool industry. It's a nice feeling layer of complexity that you'd absolutely never get in a game like Anno for instance, which otherwise makes you do a ton to 'balance' your economy, even though in that game expanding vital resource production only ever means building more buildings to make more things. I was struck during the stream how Daniel kept checking the price of goods to see what price he needed to make cheaper, and at one point Wiz asked him to look at the cheap goods to see which of those needed fixing. Because cheap goods are problem areas in your economy too, not just because they're poorly optimized, but because the buildings and workers making them are suffering. I thought that was a neat dynamic and I may not be accurately getting across what is so neat about it.
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Sep 14, 2022 06:47
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Every 6 months Vicky players independently discover the crisis of overproduction.
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Sep 14, 2022 07:36
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VostokProgram posted:Lol @ the bandit intelligentsia leader in the stream its cool that japanese robinhood was real. As an aside, I can't wait to nationalize heavy industry.
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Sep 14, 2022 07:50
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New stream looked great. Japan might be my first playthrough based on this just because it's a nice little island (or four or five or six) that I can play around and learn all the little bits of the game. Also, agreed with the other posters about the fun ways that V3 is different from other games and I'm looking forward to spending hours micromanaging my economy to best exploit my peasants.
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Sep 14, 2022 11:52
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Eiba posted:You build a second mine and now coal's so cheap that both mines crash and burn (so to speak), being unable to employ people who could actually make a living doing any number of other things. I have a feeling that if you still have surplus peasants who are doing subsistence farming then they will come and work in the mines, even if wages are really low? I think the issue with the low wages is more likely to be that the employees won't be able to afford their needs and will have a low standard of living. It's funny even after reading all the dev diaries and watching the streams I'm honestly still kind of confused about how big bits of the economy work, especially things like pop needs and job qualifications. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing because I'm looking forward to the complexity, but I hope before release we get some good youtube series that explain the mechanics from scratch realllly slowly.
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Sep 14, 2022 12:18
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The second civil war in the Japan stream is what made me finally get my head around the war mechanics and as someone who loving hates moving units around I very much like it.
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Sep 14, 2022 12:53
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fuf posted:I have a feeling that if you still have surplus peasants who are doing subsistence farming then they will come and work in the mines, even if wages are really low? Not necessarily. Even subsistence farming might pay a better “wage” if you really do drive the price of iron into the ground, relative to grain and the other basic goods that subsistence jobs generate.
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Sep 14, 2022 13:36
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fuf posted:
This is normal for economists, don't worry.
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Sep 14, 2022 14:14
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The whole point of subsistence farming is that you can provide for all your own needs, albeit at a subsistence level. This isn’t necessarily true of poorly paid wage labor.
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Sep 14, 2022 14:17
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Yeah if you can't bribe the subsistence farmers into the mines with high wages and a robust market that lets them translate that wage into a better standard of living, then why would they switch? You're gonna have to find some way to force them into the mines at bayonet point after enclosing them off the land or something, they won't voluntarily switch to a worse job just because it exists I believe. You gotta take the arable land away and give it to a plantation or something to force them into the industrial workforce.
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Sep 14, 2022 15:01
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Is there a VoD on YouTube of the Japan stream anywhere? I don't see it in the main Paradox Interactive channel, but maybe there's another channel I should look at?
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Sep 14, 2022 15:53
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alcaras posted:Is there a VoD on YouTube of the Japan stream anywhere? I don't see it in the main Paradox Interactive channel, but maybe there's another channel I should look at? Yes right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeCLDGFS6kY
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Sep 14, 2022 15:57
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EDIT: Above user posted the same content while I was posting.
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Sep 14, 2022 15:57
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Thanks! it's not on https://www.youtube.com/c/paradoxinteractive 's main page but only on videos, which confused me :-/
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Sep 14, 2022 16:36
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah if you can't bribe the subsistence farmers into the mines with high wages and a robust market that lets them translate that wage into a better standard of living, then why would they switch? You're gonna have to find some way to force them into the mines at bayonet point after enclosing them off the land or something, they won't voluntarily switch to a worse job just because it exists I believe. You gotta take the arable land away and give it to a plantation or something to force them into the industrial workforce. I know you probably know this, but this is literally the effect of the Enclosure Acts that forced villagers off their land, creating a displaced newly urban labor force and enabled industrialization. For anyone who isn't familiar with the Second Agricultural Revolution or the Enclosure Acts, it's worth reading to familiarize yourself with how they created the conditions necessary for the Industrial Revolution and growth of capitalism.
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Sep 14, 2022 18:15
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You don't use the word enclosing without knowing about the land enclosures
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Sep 14, 2022 18:24
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Cantorsdust posted:I know you probably know this, but this is literally the effect of the Enclosure Acts that forced villagers off their land, creating a displaced newly urban labor force and enabled industrialization. For anyone who isn't familiar with the Second Agricultural Revolution or the Enclosure Acts, it's worth reading to familiarize yourself with how they created the conditions necessary for the Industrial Revolution and growth of capitalism. They're also interesting because they coincided with a boom in agricultural surplus from new technologies and innovations so its basically the only known successful example of collectivization.
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Sep 14, 2022 18:24
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Raenir Salazar posted:They're also interesting because they coincided with a boom in agricultural surplus from new technologies and innovations so its basically the only known successful example of collectivization. I feel like we're not using collectivization the same way. The enclosure acts took common land and made it privately owned under the local lord. It was privatization, not collectivization. Gaius Marius posted:You don't use the word enclosing without knowing about the land enclosures Like I said, they probably do know, but enough other people are reading this thread that I thought it would be interesting reading for someone. I just think it's really exciting to see Victoria 3 reflect actual historical processes in its game mechanics so accurately, and I think actually knowing the history behind it brings that additional satisfaction to it.
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Sep 14, 2022 19:46
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