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FrP also has a lot of those kinds of contradictions. Like, they think libraries are somewhat important, but only for books, not for video games or as a social arena brown kids may use. They are populist parties with a very tight focus on their demographics, in this case old people and racists.
thotsky fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 09:24
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My relentlessly chuddy trumpist svåger refuses to vote SD as they are too leftist for him. Im guessingg AfS or MED is his poison of choice but i preferred not knowing and not caring and not asking...
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Sep 15, 2022 09:25
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His Divine Shadow posted:Aren't A-kassan and Dental public services then? Cognitive dissonance much? UR is also part of public service. I can't recall if SD has threatened anything specific to that.
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Sep 15, 2022 09:32
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His Divine Shadow posted:All in all, I am getting the impression that SD voters seem to be pro-leftish policies a lot of the time, but think of themselves as right wingers who hate all that leftism stuff. One wonders how the party squaers that with itself, let alone with the others on the bourgeoise side.
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Sep 15, 2022 09:47
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SD is in many ways S before 68. Not really though they're National Conservatives. The dental thing is an easy win for SD since many elderly can't afford it, and it really should cost as much as any other medical appointment since dental health obviously affect overall health, but the main win for SD is that asylum seekers and undocumented immigrants get 'Akut' - necessary dental care for the maximum cost of 50 SEK per appointment so it makes it easy to sell the 'foreigners leech on pensioners that built Sweden'. It's all about the deserving vs undeserving. Kallikaa fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 10:11
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thotsky posted:FrP also has a lot of those kinds of contradictions. Like, they think libraries are somewhat important, but only for books, not for video games or as a social arena brown kids may use. They are populist parties with a very tight focus on their demographics, in this case old people and racists. Well yeah. SD also want to keep the museums free of charge, but I'm guessing really they are thinking mostly of Vasa, Historiska, and Armémuseum. Their base is a bunch of boomers who want to go back to the pre-Carlsson years, when the welfare state was strong, and the females, the gays, and brown people knew their place and kept their heads down. I get the feeling that the party leadership is a lot more radical though. Shanghaied fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 10:27
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Have you actually looked at the polls for young people? If anything the left is the boomers, as is evident in this thread. Hands up anyone younger than 25? On a second note, the incoming coalition will have a clear majority vote, where the only party that might be hesitant is L. It have pretty clear implications on how fast things can happen for the near future.
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Sep 15, 2022 10:55
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Zoomers are fortnight dancing their way into rightoid governments.
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Sep 15, 2022 11:03
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This was posted earlier in the thread: V and MP is stronger with young people, so is M for some reason and SD seems to be strong in all age groups but it's still stronger in the old demographic, S which again is not left is losing a lot with young people because they don't know how to excite them at all.
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Sep 15, 2022 11:10
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fnox posted:There’s the camp that actually does dislike the economic policy of the social democrats, and also hates Muslims, and there’s the side that actually likes the welfare state, but also hates Muslims. That’s basically the SD base. SD and their ilk propose a practical solution to all what ails ya. kicking the muslims out and breaking the power of the entitled whiners is going to fix things, because we've tried everything else and nothing works*. it's a rejection of liberalism without any alternative other than brute force (in some cases, it's a rejection of the possibility of any such alternative), so what it boils down to is a kind of reactionary liberal-conservativism. basically it's a policy of crackdown on unruly elements. the idea is that you just haven't been tough enough before, but we need to take the gloves off and really show that we mean business. it took decades of total social-democratic hegemony in scandinavia to forestall this impulse, but now there are very visible issues of segregation and crime, and the social-democrats have been unable to deal with them, in part because the tools they would use are foreclosed upon, e.g. by the incredibly stupid policy of free enterprise in schools making it impossible to use schools as a means of desegregation. the issue is that SD's solution offers nothing but catharsis and an ever-increasing brutalisation - it's outright counterproductive - but a lot of the people who vote SD will not believe this, because for various reasons they have lost all trust in the people who will tell them that it doesn't work. so, when the measures fail to give the promised results, you get a self-perpetuating cycle of brutalisation such as one can see in the US. it is not clear to me how this can be stopped other than finding some other way of visibly dealing with the core issue, and that would take a lot of imagination and work from parties which, bluntly, don't tend see these issues as especially important. S might have been able to do it, but they have not demonstrated any great imagination. thotsky posted:FrP also has a lot of those kinds of contradictions. Like, they think libraries are somewhat important, but only for books, not for video games or as a social arena brown kids may use. They are populist parties with a very tight focus on their demographics, in this case old people and racists. frp's more ideological types (especially in fpu) are about the only people in norway willing to be anti-library. the public library system is ridiculously popular and everyone normal thinks you're a crank and an rear end in a top hat if you try to attack it on ideological grounds. i suspect that they're smelling the anglo-american angle of attack of libraries being "woke" and subjecting them to a culture war, but at the moment that doesn't have much purchase in norway outside of yankee-brained magazine editors. tbh i have a hard time seeing it succeed - norwegian public libraries will promote queer literature during pride etc., but mostly the library's a place to borrow books, music and games and sometimes a place to hang out where you don't have to pay anything, the ideology is too clearly old-school social democrat/social liberal. especially with the teachers' strikes i'm pretty sure a new generation of kids and parents are learning to appreciate the public library system.
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Sep 15, 2022 11:40
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Cardiac posted:Have you actually looked at the polls for young people? Yeah I saw SVT's exit polls too. Yes 18 to 21 year olds lean strongly to the right, but they are also a very small percentage of the population, perhaps 5% at most (there are a bit over 1 million 15 to 24 year olds according to SCB, 18-21 is not a bracket SCB tracks separately, but it's presumably significantly less than 1 mil). Meanwhile more than 2 million of the population is over 60. So I don't see any problem calling the olds their base - more olds voted for SD in absolute terms, even if they're somewhat more popular in relative terms among young people.
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Sep 15, 2022 11:43
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As for SD and left-right, it helps to see the various "waves" of SD politics. The early SD was based almost purely on ethnic nationalism, and the Bevara Sverige Svenskt movement. For this nucleus, of which many of the top of SD used to belong to, you have the typical extreme right idea that Sweden is in a battle for survival and that rooting out everything that is not "ethnical Swedish" (i.e. blonde blue eyed people dancing around the maypole 24/7 and not reading anything that's more questioning of authority than Fröding) is a direct existential threat. For example of this, look at Björn Söder or Richard Jomshof. I would go so far to say that this is overall a minority of the party, and several of this clique has been booted by Jimmie when they've been too overtly racist and created scandals (like Kent Ekroth o co in the iron rod scandal). When people describe SD as a fascist party, they are typically talking about this group of very ideologically driven ethno-nationalists that are the original core of the party. Ok, but you don't get 20% of the national vote based on ethno-nationalism, and SD realized this. So they adopted a dual populist agenda: the first was against multiculturalism (which they especially see in media, which is one of the reasons for their old crusade against it) and the other against "big business", which they (partly correctly) said has been instrumental in creating a society where multi-national businesses profit at the loss of workers and countryside. This also played well with the radical wing, given the ((((multi-national business))) angle and so on. This made SD more popular, as S to a certain degree has been a pro-big business party and not really the most strident defender of workers' rights the last 30 years. However, this created a dilemma where neither the left or the right wanted to collaborate with SD. Basically they could have received 30% of the national vote and still be shut out. They needed to swivel towards one of the sides to get true influence. This is when SD started to slide rightwards when it comes to economic policy. After a few meetings with Svenskt Näringsliv they jettissoned some of their more left wing policies, such as their demands to stop profit-driven private welfare and education. After a few of these things that were the most un-palatable for big business and M were filed off, that's when the party leaders started to cozy up to each other. This introduces a third main group of SD voters that are quite late to the party - those who think of the party as a right wing party that's just better at using the immigration scapegoat to reach a right wing majority government. So current SD is a complex beast, where the three wings above are sometimes directly at odds with each other. This is not new, but previously the infighting has mostly been possible to handle by either simply punishing the leaders of that wing (given that Jimmie is more or less completely in charge of internal matters) or through venting any frustrations against other parties. But the voters have voted for SD for different reasons, and pleasing one part of the party will directly harm the other. For example, blind ethno-nationalism is inherently bad for big business. That's a trap that the Conservatives in the US fell into, throw out the Mexicans and Guatemalans migrants and suddenly you have an agricultural sector that falls apart. In Sweden, one equivalent is the for-profit health care sector where a huge part of the workforce are not born in Sweden. The ethno-nationalist core of the party wants all of them to be either coerced or forced over the border. Meanwhile those companies are very influential and economically powerful group that were among those who made M make peace with SD and let them out of the cold. Will they sit silently and see their profits disappear if SD starts to sabre-rattle about throwing out everyone who don't pass Swedish language tests or whatever they have on their agenda? Even parts of the party, not merely M, would be at odds with that. To put it short: SD promises different groups different, often contrasting, things, which is one of their appeals. They can be anything you want, as long as it's someone else's fault. Turning that into practical policy, especially in a broad coalition, is hard. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 12:09
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Cardiac posted:Have you actually looked at the polls for young people? Does it really matter though. What matters is right wing politics, which is something both blocks have been doing for decades just with minor variations, has brought Sweden to where it is and going bluer isn't gonna help get that good ole Sweden back. Nobody offers a solution, the shootings will keep going on, the schools will get worse, segregation will get worse, society will get more polarised and inequal, the people in the countryside will keep seeing their villages and towns go down the drain as usual. Only possibly good news is you might get some nuclear plants built, but since the sweden of the 80s is gone I forsee this will be some weird private/public mix with lots of problems and corruption. edit: Granted, I don't think an S led government would do any better there. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 12:10
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Shanghaied posted:Yeah I saw SVT's exit polls too. Yes 18 to 21 year olds lean strongly to the right* *In that exit poll with no published error sources or error margins.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:12
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Potrzebie posted:*In that exit poll with no published error sources or error margins. Well yeah, that too
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Sep 15, 2022 12:25
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A lower voter turn out is interesting to me, and I don’t think it all boils down to “long queues”. https://twitter.com/jensfinnas/status/1569962147815346178?s=46&t=hsx00YdHOoCN03OmyitgIw Also, Annie Lööf is stepping down.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:37
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BigglesSWE posted:A lower voter turn out is interesting to me, and I don’t think it all boils down to “long queues”. I'm of the opinion that all of the parties currently sitting in the parliament are just various shades of trash and I've seen that sentiment plenty from others too, so I imagine it's that.
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Sep 15, 2022 14:09
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Does Boston Consulting Group do contracting work for nuclear power plants?
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Sep 15, 2022 14:17
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ted hitler hunter posted:Does Boston Consulting Group do contracting work for As long as they get payed I bet the answer is "YES." Jack Trades posted:I'm of the opinion that all of the parties currently sitting in the parliament are just various shades of trash and I've seen that sentiment plenty from others too, so I imagine it's that. Yeah, this year really wasn't a vote for but rather against. And that sucks. I need politicians to do better than this.
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Sep 15, 2022 14:28
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ted hitler hunter posted:Does Boston Consulting Group do contracting work for nuclear power plants? The answer is closer to "yes" than it has any right to be.
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Sep 15, 2022 14:30
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ted hitler hunter posted:Does Boston Consulting Group do contracting work for nuclear power plants? Can't wait to see the world's most expensive nuclear power plant, where the shower floor doesn't even slope towards the drain.
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Sep 15, 2022 15:31
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So no more Löfven, Lööf or Lövin. I guess autumn came early. The future belongs to the sons.
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Sep 15, 2022 17:42
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BonHair posted:How many actual SD MPs are actually right wing in any sense but the racism? I genuinely don't know, in just working backwards from DF in Denmark, where there was clearly a very socdem faction and a more classic borgerlig faction (Messerschmidt definitely fits here). If SD has the same, and a bit less authoritarian leadership, they might do some weird chaos votes to keep everyone happy internally. I'm pretty sure the DF socdem faction was always a fabrication. They did vote on that one early retirement bill last year, but they have spent far more time voting in lockstep with the bougies and have even voted to dick over pensioners specifically whenever the coalition asked. I barely follow Swedish politics but I am comfortable predicting that any pretensions of SD doing some kind of socialist nationalism will evaporate the moment they're made to pick between a parliament supporting public service or one doing racism. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 23:08
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Nenonen posted:Look who gave the probation That is why Cardiac who as an IK that willingly and intentionally broke the rules and betrayed the public trust; and also violated the principle of conflict of interest (jäv) when he decided his own punishment must be investigated by a committee of Scandi posters. I believe he deserves a harsh punishment: a 30 day probation and a ban which will deter and make other forum criminals think twice before they even consider about breaking the rules. Forum criminals should not be coddled any longer with these ineffectual 6 hour probes. I am sure that Cardiac would agree that in a forum of rules (rättsforum) there must be severe consequences for criminals who break the rules or else we might as well go back having a corrupt leftist red-green mess of a forum. But you're probably not allowed to say that in this bloody forum.
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Sep 16, 2022 09:43
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ted hitler hunter posted:As a conservative I still believe in personal responsibility and the principles outlined in the civil service law (tjänstemannalagen) i.e. holding civil servants (tjänstemän) accountable if they act in a negligent manner as public officials. People who hold positions of authority must be held to a higher standard than a regular citizen or poster. Go back to ? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 16, 2022 11:16
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ted hitler hunter posted:As a conservative I still believe in personal responsibility and the principles outlined in the civil service law (tjänstemannalagen) i.e. holding civil servants (tjänstemän) accountable if they act in a negligent manner as public officials. People who hold positions of authority must be held to a higher standard than a regular citizen or poster. I vote for cardiac, as the main proponent for parties that want harsher punishments, to receive... a harsher punishment.
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Sep 16, 2022 13:21
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I propose to put forward a vote of no confidence on the thread’s Idiot King.
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Sep 16, 2022 14:24
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I vote for defenestration.
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Sep 16, 2022 14:26
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thotsky posted:I vote for defenestration. Send his resume to Gazprom
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Sep 16, 2022 14:30
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Can we make the punishment harsher because he is a denizen of a known troubled subforum (belastet forumområde).
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Sep 16, 2022 16:37
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BonHair posted:Can we make the punishment harsher because he is a denizen of a known troubled subforum (belastet forumområde).
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Sep 16, 2022 16:50
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Apparently people are spamming the inboxes of L-politicians to not support a government that includes SD https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/mejlkampanj-mot-liberalerna I don't think this will change a thing, since L has never cared about what people want but there's a small hope at least.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:22
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Kamrat posted:Apparently people are spamming the inboxes of L-politicians to not support a government that includes SD The best thing about it is that L is claiming it's a threatening campaign. quote:”Det här med att försöka hota någon till att besluta det man vill är en väldigt dålig metod, vill jag låta hälsa”, skriver Romina Pourmokhtari (L) på Twitter. Hon står på L:s riksdagslista och var fram till nyligen ordförande för Liberala ungdomsförbundet. E-mailing politicians is now a breach of democratic principles I guess.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:08
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BigglesSWE posted:The best thing about it is that L is claiming it's a threatening campaign. This about it being a threat campaign is just bullshit and she knows it, she's also calling it a bad method, but how else would people get their voices heard other than contacting their politicians. I know they prefer people to stay quiet but that's not how people work.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:25
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thotsky posted:I vote for defenestration. this is going to far, maybe we could do something fun instead to lighten the mood like a maskeradbal
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Sep 16, 2022 19:26
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Kamrat posted:This about it being a threat campaign is just bullshit and she knows it, she's also calling it a bad method, but how else would people get their voices heard other than contacting their politicians. I mean if she prefers house calls and phonecalls I guess there's that but I have a feeling that'd be uh, less appreciated.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:30
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Kamrat posted:Apparently people are spamming the inboxes of L-politicians to not support a government that includes SD Skiftet and BLM Sweden lol! Why would L give a poo poo about what they think?
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Sep 16, 2022 19:43
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Megamissen posted:this is going to far, maybe we could do something fun instead to lighten the mood https://www.eniro.se/ankarstr%C3%B6m/personer Ping (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 16, 2022 23:12
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Sistergodiva posted:Ping I hope this isn’t what it looks like. Explain.
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Sep 16, 2022 23:14
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I hope this isn’t what it looks like. Explain. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Johan_Anckarstr%C3%B6m
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