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So umm things are looking a bit clearer now. I want to store files in a raid6 or something. I want to be in a situation where if I gently caress something up with something else, my file storage won't be affected. Then I want to run some programs like: - torrent - sabnzb - unifi network app - homeassistant - jellyfin - ruuvitag things - probably something else too. What would be the best software choice for home server in this case? Vmware esxi free hypervisor? Then run those homeassistants etc in docker containers or something? Then run some os to store files, which one? I thought freenas was the choice, but seems they rebranded to truenas, and truenas is concentrating on some other stuff these days it seems. It also would be beneficial to be able to backup my digital camera photos etc important files to cloud like backblaze s2? And all the software etc so if something happens physically like all the HDD 's die together I don't have to setup all the software again. Edit: do I need to buy some pcie add-on card or can I just use the sata ports in my intel mobo? (Maybe with z390 chipset) Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 12:10
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Truenas is perfectly fine for this - both Core and Scale should let you configure containers for things like that fairly easily. I use Core (the FreeBSD one), and I think most of the things you listed are available as plugins (e.g. preconfigured jails), and the rest should be doable. I bet they are mostly available as containers on Scale (the Linux based one), too. As for their Storj partnership, I bet it's way overblown for marketing and in practice means they're an option in a dropdown somewhere.
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Sep 16, 2022 12:50
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Unraid is great, and doesn't really try to be more than it is.
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Sep 16, 2022 12:58
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Why bother paying for Unraid when TrueNAS Scale exists? 
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Sep 16, 2022 13:08
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Computer viking posted:As for their Storj partnership, I bet it's way overblown for marketing and in practice means they're an option in a dropdown somewhere. Yeah I would guess in the actual truenas software it will be nothing more than an official plugin, so it's not even there if you haven't opted in. But the truenas company is gonna hype it because they're getting paid. Also it probably won't last long -- this is gonna be just like Helium in so far as "dumb unworkable idea + crypto = dumb unworkable idea". Lots of people are gonna sign up for storj to use the extra space on their drives for money, very few people will be paying them for it.
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Sep 16, 2022 13:25
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I'd really like a hypervisor tho so I could do things like test new operating systems and stuff without breaking anything horribly. Files will mostly sit archived, idle, so it would be waste of hardware to not use the server for as many things as possible! unRAID sounds like it would fit the bill. Store files, run apps, run VM's, and isolate stuff from each other when necessary. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 13:35
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There are already storj docker containers that you could deploy and use to eat up your hard drive space and wear them out hosting someone else’s encrypted and maybe illegal content. They are probably just taking one of those, setting up the k3s deployment defaults and dropping it in their official repo. I wouldn’t worry about the storj thing.
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Sep 16, 2022 13:40
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is it here you talk about btrfs BlankSystemDaemon has reigned in shsc too long
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Sep 16, 2022 13:41
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Nitrousoxide posted:There are already storj docker containers that you could deploy and use to eat up your hard drive space and wear them out hosting someone else’s encrypted and maybe illegal content. They are probably just taking one of those, setting up the k3s deployment defaults and dropping it in their official repo. Yeah, there's now an "official" Storj app in the truenas catalog now (there was already a "Storj Node" in the everything-else section that everybody is going to enable anyway). Beyond this being eyeroll-worthy I don't think this is a giant sin or anything.
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Sep 16, 2022 13:44
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Counter argument: crypto is literally killing the planet on top of all the pyramid schemes and stupid poo poo. It ain't like there's a dearth of nas appliances or software, go with literally any other company not actively touching the poop.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:26
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Seems I really have to run an *OS* from an USB stick. What the hell. Well, whatever. Who would use USB sticks for anything, ever, in 2022... I guess I can use my 1TB 980 pro as a cache disk. Can I only set it like "use 256GB for cache" and I can use the other space for other stuff? Do I really need two cache disks? Unraid says it writes data to HDD only once a day, so the data sits on the cache disk and if the cache disk dies before data is written to HDD, the data is lost.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:53
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Ihmemies posted:Seems I really have to run an *OS* from an USB stick. What the hell. Well, whatever. Who would use USB sticks for anything, ever, in 2022... I believe you have to give unraid the whole disk for cache. You don't need 2 disks and there was a nasty bug in unraid when using 2 cache drives in a mirror (BTRFS) that would cause massive amounts of writes to the disks. Personally, I now use 2 cache disks in separate cache pools. 1 cache is for my docker containers to write files that will be moved to the HDD array at night with the mover. The other is where my docker containers and VMs run off of. The drives are formatted with XFS and the write amount is significantly lower so I'm less worried about wearing them out. Some things to remember: You will still need backups of your stuff, regardless of cache or array status. Mover will not move open files, this can be a problem with torrents you are seeding. The USB stick kind of sucks but for the most part its only used for read only stuff, everything else is done in RAM. Make sure you install the UnRAID utility that backs up your USB stick to their service.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:06
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Mr. Crow posted:Counter argument: crypto is literally killing the planet on top of all the pyramid schemes and stupid poo poo. It ain't like there's a dearth of nas appliances or software, go with literally any other company not actively touching the poop. Storj isn't like bitcoin and is running kilowatts to solve hard math problems. It's a proof of capacity thing not a proof of work thing.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:06
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Ihmemies posted:I'd really like a hypervisor tho so I could do things like test new operating systems and stuff without breaking anything horribly. Files will mostly sit archived, idle, so it would be waste of hardware to not use the server for as many things as possible! I'm running TrueNAS CORE on top of ESXi with SATA controller passthrough to the VM. Then I run services in containers under a different VM. It's been chugging along for a year and half without issues so far.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:40
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Mr. Crow posted:Counter argument: crypto is literally killing the planet on top of all the pyramid schemes and stupid poo poo. It ain't like there's a dearth of nas appliances or software, go with literally any other company not actively touching the poop. Crypto in general is terrible, but this storj thing is barely crypto. Their token isn't burning resources for proof of work, it's running a cloud storage biz by renting space on home user drives. Like, their biz model would work equally well (badly) without the cryptocurrency. Right now they sell cryptos to users, and the users pay those to people providing the storage space. They could just sell storage space with real money and then pay for space with real money. But they have a crypto to get VC investment and fomo hype, and they're "decentralized" to avoid liability. And that's why this is pretty ignorable. Businesses are never gonna start putting data in these schemes, because there's no guarantee of availability. Their network has redundancy, but if a moderate % of storj users decide to leave the network (ex if the crypto dives in price) it will produce data loss. The only people who will use this are crypto enthusiasts and people too cheap for normal cloud backup.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:42
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Matt Zerella posted:I believe you have to give unraid the whole disk for cache. Welp. I guess of course I don't need to use cache at all. Then stuff is read and written instantly to HDD. If I get some speed problems I can buy more m.2 ssd's to use as a cache disk. The motherboard has 1 slot free and I have a spare m.2 to pcie add-on card to get more slots. I plan to back up important files like my photos to cloud like backblaze S2. I have been using crashplan on my desktop but I'm interested in trying something else. I also do backups to an external usb HDD maybe once a month. The raid/array/parity thing would mainly be for  when HDD's break. It sucks less when it is more likely you only need to rebuild, not recover data from backups.
Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 17:47
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Ihmemies posted:Welp. I guess of course I don't need to use cache at all. Then stuff is read and written instantly to HDD. If I get some speed problems I can buy more m.2 ssd's to use as a cache disk. I would not suggest running Docker off of the array, therein lies pain. I also would not be writing NZB downloads which can be high io when unzipping/par checked direct to the array. A 1TB cache should be just fine for you to use formatted as XFS and used for Docker and file storage. Trust me, running unraid without any kind of cache suuuucks.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:49
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Matt Zerella posted:I would not suggest running Docker off of the array, therein lies pain. I also would not be writing NZB downloads which can be high io when unzipping/par checked direct to the array. What if I want to run some VM's too to test stuff? Maybe a database or something else? I thought one ssd would be enough for a server. Maybe I'll just look at some other solution which requires less SSD's. I can't really think of an use case where I need to waste a fast 1TB m.2 disk as a cache drive.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:52
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Ihmemies posted:What if I want to run some VM's too to test stuff? Maybe a database or something else? I thought one ssd would be enough for a server. Maybe I'll just look at some other solution which requires less SSD's. You should be ok, remember, you can dockerize a DB too. You could if you have the budget/space run a PCIE SSD and use that for VMs separately. A TB should be just fine to start and you can expand from there, depending on what your VM use case/needs are. Basically, I'm just advising you to stay away from the BTRFS cache mirror, its crap. Otherwise I love unraid and its been rock solid for me going on 7 years now.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:55
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I've been very happy with unraid here too, coming up on 5 years now. I've had stretches of over a year solid of uptime. Only downtime I've had in that span was due to a flaw in my server board that can fry USB sticks on boot, which I found out the hard way after needing to power down to increase the storage pool. Even that was fairly painless, as limetech sent out a replacement key right away.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:02
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Ihmemies posted:unRAID sounds like it would fit the bill. Store files, run apps, run VM's, and isolate stuff from each other when necessary.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:31
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Combat Pretzel posted:TrueNAS Scale has KVM support. I looked more at truenas and it has ZFS filesystem. They say ZFS was meant for ultra-reliable SUN hardware and it should not be run on garbage. I presume non -ECC ram and a gaming motherboard are classified as garbage so I better run something else on it, like unraid. If/when I get a job again I can invest in new server hardware.
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Sep 16, 2022 21:15
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Nah. While I personally don't understand why someone doesn't feel like running ECC RAM on their server, ZFS doesn't really need it. Anything faulty RAM can do to ZFS, it'll do to XFS and btrfs (or whatever Unraid uses). So if you think your system is fine for Unraid, it'll run TrueNAS just the same. If anything, given any fault, ZFS is probably more resilient to it. As far as mainboards go, the gaming part is just stupid marketing. Whether it's a gaming mainboard or a server one, both do pretty much the same thing, just the peripherals are somewhat different. E.g. you'll find 10GBe SFP networking and SAS ports on a server board, while "gaming" ones come with an audio solution, a litter of USB ports and built-in Wifi.
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Sep 16, 2022 21:34
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ECC ram and a server motherboard and a xeon would be sweet. New ones looked very expensive and I have no idea where to find used working ones in Finland, or how long they work. My old unused 8700K + mobo was 0€ but I had to buy 2x16GB of ram for 100€. I mean I don't have ECC hardware and I don't know where to find some (or what to buy) and I probably don't have money for it either. Vs. I can use now what I already have. I was an x-ray tech but my commute sucked and I couldn't get work nearby. So I went to university to study computer sciences. Income is not so great at the moment. Maybe in a few years
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Sep 16, 2022 21:42
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Re: Unraid Cache - it is not dedicated to cache and lost to you. When you create a VM or choose where your docker lives, you simply select the cache disk. It has the same folder structure as the array and there's a task that moves things that shouldn't stay on cache to the array. It's a pretty simple and functional system for the home user. You're not losing your nice nvme to write caching only. You get to use it for docker and VMs and any share you would prefer to reside on cache only. Yes, you do lose parity for those files, unless you install two cache disks which is supported out of the box. I personally just run one.
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Sep 16, 2022 23:19
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My Truenas (core) machine is my old i5 6600K gaming machine with extra RAM, a pair of large spinning disks, and an M2 SSD left over from an upgrade. It's fine. The one concession I've made is to throw an AliExpress Special™ Realtek 2.5Gbit network card in it - I got 190MB/s from the steam cache we've set up earlier today, so it seems to be working ok.
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Sep 16, 2022 23:22
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Is it worth formatting my Unraid's xfs formatted drives to btrfs, which I've read has much better compression and can save you up to 10-20% in space? My cache drive could certainly use the extra space. My 100 TB Unraid server has been pretty stable, and I almost always run the beta release candidates. I have recently ran into one weird issue out of the blue - my Krusader docker container has ballooned to 100GB for some reason. I'm really not sure why - I deleted the container and ran a script that delete orphaned dockers, but the container just started taking up more space again. 
Corb3t fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Sep 17, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 23:53
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Tankakern posted:is it here you talk about btrfs  Ihmemies posted:ECC ram and a server motherboard and a xeon would be sweet. New ones looked very expensive and I have no idea where to find used working ones in Finland, or how long they work. My old unused 8700K + mobo was 0€ but I had to buy 2x16GB of ram for 100€. I've not used them since my budget doesn't permit it, but I believe they ship outside of Sweden. There's nothing wrong with starting out without ECC and moving to a system that has it later on if you find something used - there's usually sites that sell used equipment, although in Denmark I am there's more luck in being a member of a certain facebook group than using the used gear sites.
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Sep 16, 2022 23:58
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Thanks, I'll just try unraid first. It seems to do the job and my data integrity is not super duper important. I can upgrade the HW later. Do you guys have some rack server cases or how do you fit the server hw to a case? My define R5 supports only atx form factor.
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Sep 17, 2022 09:36
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Ihmemies posted:Thanks, I'll just try unraid first. It seems to do the job and my data integrity is not super duper important. I can upgrade the HW later. I bought a supermicro 2u server on ebay that had 2x old xeon CPUs for $200 a couple years ago, pulled out the guts and sold them for $80 and put an ASRock mobo and a ryzen 3950 in it.
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Sep 17, 2022 18:45
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People really seem to roast non-ECC setups for file storage. So a friend told me about a webshop where he bought some stuff back in the day. I looked at the options and this would probably work:  I could get maybe 200€ from my 8700K and Asus Maximus X Hero. Then I could return the 2x16GB non-ECC so I'd end up only paying 200€ for the setup, compared to what I'd use otherwise. The cores are slow but there are many of them, and there's 6 memory slots free for more memory if needed later. I understood the Xeon is a dual-channel CPU, quad-channel in 2CPU setup. So only 2 sticks would be fine in the beginning. They have hundreds/thousands of other Xeons for sale too, dunno what else would be suitable. More cores = Better I thought.
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Sep 17, 2022 19:21
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Lowen SoDium posted:I bought a supermicro 2u server on ebay that had 2x old xeon CPUs for $200 a couple years ago, pulled out the guts and sold them for $80 and put an ASRock mobo and a ryzen 3950 in it. Excuse me sir that's expressly against the "rules" and considered cheating. *scribbles down notes furiously*
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Sep 17, 2022 19:22
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Saved ~129 GB of space moving from xfs to brtfs for my cache drive in Unraid (557GB used to 428GB). Pretty good!
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Sep 17, 2022 20:31
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I found some stuff to sell, like Nikon coolscan V scanner, pc-nikkor 28/4 etc. I haven't used them in years and won't be using them anymore. I boguht some legacy old poo poo I listed here earlier: Xeon E5 2860 v4 14C cpu (with goddamn awfully slow cores), 2x DR 32GB ECC SK Hynix memory sticks, Supermicro X10 motherboard. Total was 480€ with shipping. Hopefully this is good enough for a few years.
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Sep 17, 2022 21:52
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Ihmemies posted:People really seem to roast non-ECC setups for file storage. So a friend told me about a webshop where he bought some stuff back in the day. ECC corrects single-bit flipped values in DIMMs, obviously - but what that means in the real world is that system availability is upped by quite a substantial amount, because bit-flips account for way more system instability than a lot of people think (because they don't have ECC, so they can't know). However, one of the downsides of ECC is that to make full use of it, you need your OS kernel to be informed via what's called a non-maskable interrupt, which is generated through the firmware when one or more bit-flips happen. The advantage of this is that it lets the kernel gets to decide what to do; for example, if it's a read-cache that's experienced an uncorrectable double-flip, it can simply invalidate that cache, whereas if it's a driver it can probably detach the device, unload the driver, reload the driver, and reattach the device without needing a restart. Unfortunately, however, a lot of firmware implementations don't generate these NMIs or generate them only when double-flips occur, or generally don't behave like sysadmins want them to, because it's cheaper for the vendor to not care, and at any rate there's only two companies that sell firmware, so they've got a duopoly. What this means is that if you buy a pre-made server from HP or Dell, you can probably expect that it'll work - however, if you buy spare hardware that claims ECC support, it's entirely possible you won't get what you think you're paying for, and will be little better off than you were without ECC memory (except, of course, you'll still have the higher system availability). You're lucky that you bought a Supermicro, though - because they're one of the few vendors that consistently ensure proper ECC implementation (with a few exceptions, that got fixed in later firmware revisions, iirc). All that aside, for file-sharing servers, more cores at slightly lower frequencies is a LOT better than a few very fast cores, unless you're aiming to satuate 10Gbps SFP+-connected NICs.
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Sep 17, 2022 23:01
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Not sure if this is the best thread for this, but I guess the use case overlap is pretty high. So I've been looking for portable power stations, thanks to this russian gas bullshit here in Europe, where power outages are half-expected during winter. I've been looking at one from a brand called Bluetti/PowerOak, has 716Wh of battery backup and comes with a goddamn pure sine wave inverter. That thing costs 750€. The question of mine is mostly, why the gently caress do I need to pay at least four times as much for a "proper" UPS with the same specs?!
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Sep 18, 2022 10:35
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Combat Pretzel posted:Not sure if this is the best thread for this, but I guess the use case overlap is pretty high. Besides the lack of quality of that thing and probably lying about specs? I suppose you could start with the fact that the inverter is only "rated" to run 6.6 amps which is nowhere close to a proper UPS.
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Sep 18, 2022 14:39
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It does beg the question where are the lithium and lithium iron phosphate batteries at for UPS systems, when you have the entire solar and EV systems running in them now. I bought a AC500 and 2 B300S batteries in lieu of a UPS; because our power is semi unreliable. But that’s more in the solar generator/whole home category.
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Sep 18, 2022 15:21
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lead acid should be dead, but it's sadly still hanging on.
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Sep 18, 2022 15:24
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Motronic posted:Besides the lack of quality of that thing and probably lying about specs? I suppose you could start with the fact that the inverter is only "rated" to run 6.6 amps which is nowhere close to a proper UPS. The complaint is more, why do "budget" UPS systems (or any other) not have more endurance for the price.
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