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NikkolasKing posted:It has been over a decade since I thought about this game but presumably most people watching the scene have a much fresher memory of the game's events. I remember the rough outline of it all, though. Maybe but that isn't how writing fiction works. Repetition is a commonly used tool. Like FFX ends with Yuna literally spelling out the themes in a far more unnecessary scene but it bookends the story. In CC it is the close of Zack's story and ending with him repeating his line but with Cloud finishes it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 22:26
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bookends are a writing Thing, or so i've heard
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Sep 16, 2022 22:28
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NikkolasKing posted:It has been over a decade since I thought about this game but presumably most people watching the scene have a much fresher memory of the game's events. I remember the rough outline of it all, though. An utter rejection of the concept of narrative or symbolic writing. Luddite.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:34
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Look I don't understand what a theme is just like any other guy, but even I know that you want your main character's last words to be something special.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:36
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a theme is the song that plays when a character does something cool
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Sep 16, 2022 22:37
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I haven't played Crisis Core so I can't weigh in on that game specifically, but I don't think it's that far of a stretch that someone could find Final Fantasy writing unsubtle to its own detriment sometimes. Like, I love FFX, but if someone said that it was too on-the-nose for them at times, I could see where they were coming from.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:43
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Blue Labrador posted:I haven't played Crisis Core so I can't weigh in on that game specifically, but I don't think it's that far of a stretch that someone could find Final Fantasy writing unsubtle to its own detriment sometimes. No, the sheer amount of posts in these megathreads that just misread half the plot points of games proves that they should be even less subtle about it.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:46
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still playing ff12. just got to salikawood. i like this game, even though i think the battle system is a complete failure and the license board is monotonous (i just did max LP boost and i can't even be bothered to go unlocking them all), it's just got a very different tone in every way than every other FF game. it doesn't feel like it belongs in the series at all, even the way they integrate the usual FF elements is off-brand - you can kill black and red chocobos as god damned enemies, and even the yellow ones are used as beasts of war. there's something that is both cool and teasing about how sparing they are with the worldbuilding - there's are a lot of concepts and lore in this that are just sort of thrown at you in passing without being explained or dramatised in much detail. so it feels like there's a big world going on here but you're only getting a little glimpse of it. the only other ivalice game i've played is vagrant story, which i love, but it's very self-contained and i think takes place in a whole different era than this. is FF tactics where ivalice really gets fleshed out? i feel like there should be a huge compendium in FF12 where you can read about all the histories and factions and weird stuff, but there isn't. just a bestiary, which is pretty cool, but limited. still got a bunch of the game to go but i like it. i'm really liking the party members. bathier and fran are a+, they could have their own entire game. i want to know more.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:51
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ImpAtom posted:Maybe but that isn't how writing fiction works. Repetition is a commonly used tool. I really disliked that ending speech from Yuna, to be honest. Like you said it's painfully unnecessary. But I see your point. RareAcumen posted:Look I don't understand what a theme is just like any other guy, but even I know that you want your main character's last words to be something special. "You'll be my living legacy" seemed good enough to me. Also this reminded me of a conversation I had with someone a long time ago. He thought Cowboy Bebop was the best and in discussing its virtues, he contrasted Spike's death with Wolfwood's in Trigun. Wolfwood has a little speech while all Spike said was "Bang." Less is more is a concept lost on most people.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:53
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The FFXII Struggle for Freedom mod is decent they changed the job licenses, increased mob difficulty (normal mode is just 1.25 HP), and reworked a bunch of the useless abilities.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:53
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cirus posted:The FFXII Struggle for Freedom mod is decent they changed the job licenses, increased mob difficulty (normal mode is just 1.25 HP), and reworked a bunch of the useless abilities. Yeah, I'll second this. SFF actually made me engage with the job and class system in a way I never was forced to before, and I don't think I'll ever play without some form of it again. I played with the modified vanilla jobs, though I know it also has an option with custom jobs made with specific party members in mind available as well. There's also a mod that makes Steal an actual Gambit and that is a criticism that I think everyone who's played 12 has had.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:56
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cirus posted:The FFXII Struggle for Freedom mod is decent they changed the job licenses, increased mob difficulty (normal mode is just 1.25 HP), and reworked a bunch of the useless abilities. Just play a good game instead!
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Sep 16, 2022 22:57
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roomtone posted:there's something that is both cool and teasing about how sparing they are with the worldbuilding - there's are a lot of concepts and lore in this that are just sort of thrown at you in passing without being explained or dramatised in much detail. so it feels like there's a big world going on here but you're only getting a little glimpse of it. the only other ivalice game i've played is vagrant story, which i love, but it's very self-contained and i think takes place in a whole different era than this. is FF tactics where ivalice really gets fleshed out? i feel like there should be a huge compendium in FF12 where you can read about all the histories and factions and weird stuff, but there isn't. just a bestiary, which is pretty cool, but limited. Yeah this is one of the things I really enjoy about FFXII. What's fun about Ivalice is that most of the entries leave a similar feeling about the world--there are a lot of details, but also lots of holes that ask you to imagine what goes there, and sometimes details that suggest more questions than they answer. The same is true of FFT, though in that case, FFT happens long after FFXII, in a "the magic has mostly faded" version of the world. It hints at a more high-magic past with moogles and more magical creatures and airships that FFXII sorta fills in, though it also doesn't quite fit with some of the historical texts you see in FFT, which raises more questions in a way that I think is kinda fun. cirus posted:The FFXII Struggle for Freedom mod is decent they changed the job licenses, increased mob difficulty (normal mode is just 1.25 HP), and reworked a bunch of the useless abilities. Yeah Struggle for Freedom is good as hell. It's similar to the Tactics Ogre One Vision mod, in that it's an actually successful rebalancing mod, not just a "hard mode" mod. It buffs underpowered options, adds new options, tones down some things that were too strong, but overall increases variety in a way that feels actually balanced. It's really good.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:59
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Schwartzcough posted:e: f;b If by "pet theory" you mean "widely known fact." The Eye/Phantom enemies in the famicon version were beholders, with very obvious Beholder sprites. Wizards were mindflayers. All 4 fiends are prominent D&D enemies...etc. SettingSun posted:Doublecast doesn't really have an equivalent in any system I know of but lots of modern systems have gish classes who love casting and stabbing. https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/Chain_Contingency among others. NikkolasKing posted:I always loved Red Mages and when I asked my tabletop nerd friends about an equivalent, the closest they could come up with was a Bard. IIRc, Red Mage is a twist on Elf from first edition when it was an actual class like Fighter and Magic-User. The Capcom beat em up D&D arcade games use the OG D&D 'elf' and 'dwarf' classes too.
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Sep 16, 2022 23:07
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So here's a question. What makes a Dragoon? Is it just "they use spears" - Is that it? Because some people say VII Cid and Kimahri are Dragoons. But while I guess I'm only really thinking of Kain, I feel like Jump has to be a mandatory part of being a real Dragoon. It's really what makes them unique as a Class. If all they have is "uses spear" that's pretty lame. Evil Fluffy posted:IIRc, Red Mage is a twist on Elf from first edition when it was an actual class like Fighter and Magic-User. The Capcom beat em up D&D arcade games use the OG D&D 'elf' and 'dwarf' classes too. That's really interesting to hear. Thank you.
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Sep 16, 2022 23:09
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Something interesting about Ivalice is that, because of how far apart each of the games are and how different the world is in each of them, it's debatable whether it's a shared setting at all. It's really more of a sub-series with its own set of shared elements than it is a coherent setting. There are some games that are definitely connected (Vaan and Penelo appear in FFTA2, for example) but while FFXII and FFTA/A2 are connected like that, it's unclear whether FFT or Vagrant Story are really connected or not. Even Matsuno has gone back and forth on that. Anyway I like Ivalice a lot and that's one of the reasons. NikkolasKing posted:So here's a question. What makes a Dragoon? Is it just "they use spears" - Is that it? Spear and Jump. Cid has multiple jump attacks in his limit breaks, and Kimahri's starting Ronso Rage is Jump. They're not Jump-centric but they do have jumps. Meanwhile FFXII has the "Uhlan" job rather than Dragoon because while the job uses spears, it doesn't have Jump. And FFXIV's Lancer class doesn't have any jump attacks--you gain those when you become a Dragoon.
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Sep 16, 2022 23:14
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cid is an alcoholic
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Sep 16, 2022 23:16
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NikkolasKing posted:So here's a question. What makes a Dragoon? Is it just "they use spears" - Is that it? I'd say spears and jumping are critical to being a Dragoon and this Kimarhi is one cuz of his Jump Overdrive, whereas XII doesn't have any Dragoons cuz while there are spear-weilding characters, none of them jump. I declared Ulhan the official Dragoon in XII in my summary but it's not, really. Same with Halver in XI FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 23:17
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So did Square only show like Crisis Core at TGS? They had XVI in their list of games at the show, is there gonna be another stream or are we not getting a second trailer for this game supposedly coming out by this time next year?
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Sep 16, 2022 23:30
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Hit or miss Clitoris posted:So did Square only show like Crisis Core at TGS? They had XVI in their list of games at the show, is there gonna be another stream or are we not getting a second trailer for this game supposedly coming out by this time next year? Also Octopath 2, Star Ocean, Harvestella, Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song, and a few other things. Nothing new for FFVII Rebirth or FFXVI, though.
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Sep 16, 2022 23:32
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"Force Your Way" has been stuck in my head since I started playing VIII At least it loving slaps
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Sep 16, 2022 23:34
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FrostyPox posted:"Force Your Way" has been stuck in my head since I started playing VIII Probably the best FF boss song of the era.
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Sep 16, 2022 23:37
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Red Mages must wear red, Dragoons must jump. These are the rules
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Sep 16, 2022 23:38
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They fixed that translation error, Aeris just this "This guy is sick" 0/10 game
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Sep 16, 2022 23:38
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her name is aerith
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Sep 16, 2022 23:56
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If I wasn't strictly sticking with default names for my first play through I would've named her "Aeristh"
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Sep 17, 2022 00:02
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I definitely owned a (pirated) copy of FFVII on PC and I played until Midgar fell out of the sky or whatever but I don't remember anything up to that point. I didn't realize the "Cloud Dresses Like A Girl" part was so early in the game. I just talked to the goon outside Don Corleone or whatever's mansion
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Sep 17, 2022 00:06
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:a theme is the song that plays when a character does something cool Oh! Well in that case, themes are cool and I like them. Power Rangers is good.
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Sep 17, 2022 00:15
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FrostyPox posted:If I wasn't strictly sticking with default names for my first play through I would've named her "Aeristh" i liked the translation video series where her name was just entered as "AERIス"
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Sep 17, 2022 00:27
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FrostyPox posted:I definitely owned a (pirated) copy of FFVII on PC and I played until Midgar fell out of the sky or whatever but I don't remember anything up to that point. I didn't realize the "Cloud Dresses Like A Girl" part was so early in the game. I just talked to the goon outside Don Corleone or whatever's mansion All of Midgar total is probably generously 5 hours. It's pretty amazing they managed to flesh it out into a full game.
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Sep 17, 2022 00:39
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FrostyPox posted:If I wasn't strictly sticking with default names for my first play through I would've named her "Aeristh" Apparently in the internal files of FF7 she's correctly referred to as Aerith in every single instance where her name appears in English, except for the string that contains her default name when you name her
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Sep 17, 2022 00:53
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Chillgamesh posted:Apparently in the internal files of FF7 she's correctly referred to as Aerith in every single instance where her name appears in English, except for the string that contains her default name when you name her lol
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Sep 17, 2022 01:14
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Chillgamesh posted:Apparently in the internal files of FF7 she's correctly referred to as Aerith in every single instance where her name appears in English, except for the string that contains her default name when you name her The most Squaresoft thing I’ve ever read
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Sep 17, 2022 01:15
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NikkolasKing posted:Those seem like two unrelated issues. Nobody said Necron is thematically inappropriate, just that his appearance is unexplained and random. Saying this nonsense in the same week Jean-Luc Godard died is some cursed bullshit. Let's actually consider how Necron is presented in relation to the work. What are Zidane and Vivi's character arc's about, what is Freya and her Boyfriends arcs about, what is Kuja's arc about? What is Necron's name? Where does the fight take place? What is the final action Kuja takes before the fight? And finally what is the resolution to the story once Necron is Necgone? Anyone who can answer those questions can also answer who and why Necron is there. Saying his presence is random only betrays an inability to synthesize information, to understand meaning and intent in words instead of just the prose itself, and to understand that theme and tone are an integral piece of the fiction working in conjunction with the character work rather than seasoning to add to it. That is to say you think Theme is the pepper of your Steak au poivre, when it is in fact the muscle itself and the characters the fat. I would strongly suggest you participate in a larger amount of differentiated art because your current pov in regards to art and storytelling are myopic in the extreme. NikkolasKing posted:CC was definitely made for people in high school. Genesis could only appeal to exceptionally pretentious 9th graders. Always hated Genesis, Angel was alright. Cissnei was probably the best new character in the game.
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Sep 17, 2022 01:17
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NGL I was a tad confused by Necron's presence until I had it spelled out for me in a guide that he's the Eidolon manifestation of Kuja's nihilistic terror or something along those lines Anyway I just got to the part where part of Midgard crushes Sector 7, I am unsure if this is where I stopped back in the day. RIP The Ironworks Employees FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Sep 17, 2022 |
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Sep 17, 2022 01:24
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NikkolasKing posted:So here's a question. What makes a Dragoon? Is it just "they use spears" - Is that it? Kimarhi learns stuff with Lancet, and iirc that move is just called “Dragon Sword” in Japan, so there’s another point for him at least.
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Sep 17, 2022 02:00
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When I first finished FF9 I somehow convinced myself that Necron was the ghost of the Iifa Tree caught in its own soul trap.
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Sep 17, 2022 02:13
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Gaius Marius posted:Saying this nonsense in the same week Jean-Luc Godard died is some cursed bullshit. Let's actually consider how Necron is presented in relation to the work. What are Zidane and Vivi's character arc's about, what is Freya and her Boyfriends arcs about, what is Kuja's arc about? What is Necron's name? Where does the fight take place? What is the final action Kuja takes before the fight? And finally what is the resolution to the story once Necron is Necgone? Anyone who can answer those questions can also answer who and why Necron is there. Saying his presence is random only betrays an inability to synthesize information, to understand meaning and intent in words instead of just the prose itself, and to understand that theme and tone are an integral piece of the fiction working in conjunction with the character work rather than seasoning to add to it. That is to say you think Theme is the pepper of your Steak au poivre, when it is in fact the muscle itself and the characters the fat. All you're proposing is beating people over the head with the ideas of the story so hard that you have to insert them in a physical form in the last five minutes of your game without explanation. You don't need an entity named the Ghost of War to show up at the end of a Gundam series. Necron has to have an actual explained origin or else it's just hamfisted "GET IT" for the players . We got it when we defeated Kuja and when Gihren died, we didn't need it rammed down our throat by a being with zero foreshadowing or build. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Sep 17, 2022 |
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Sep 17, 2022 02:31
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Tifa just called Barret a r**ard Oh, the 90s
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Sep 17, 2022 02:33
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FrostyPox posted:Tifa just called Barret a r**ard Tifa must post in QCS
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Sep 17, 2022 02:33
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