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Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
I like zero mana interaction. I just wish it wasn’t tied to creatures. Spells have better balance. The fact that they are all playable is great.

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sit on my Facebook
Jun 20, 2007

ASS GAS OR GRASS
No One Rides for FREE
In the Trumplord Holy Land
Yeah I don't know that I love that choice specifically either but I do think the format is better for them existing, even if it'd be better another way maybe

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin

sit on my Facebook posted:

Those cards would still get printed. The lack of existence of Horizons sets did not and would not prevent them from printing cards that redefine the status-quo power level
Why would they?
What makes you believe that pitch elementals ever would have made it through standard? As you already said: They all share the same expansion which means we know they didn't come from standard and there's no reason to believe they ever would have.

And no, they're not good for the format. Labeling them as just "interaction" misses their bodies. Force of WIll doesn't attack me. You can't Ephemerate a Daze.

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.
And I also really dig the small bit of tribal stuff in general. It’s popular for a reason, and even with what feels like absurd upgrades at times is really only maneuvering bad decks to be less bad.

Feels more like legacy at times where you feel you can brew as long as you keep slots for fow/brainstorm.

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

MH2 is good because it resulted in my current favorite deck, scam

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

sit on my Facebook posted:

Scorching hot take alert; the Horizons sets have actually been a net benefit to both modern and rotating formats by allowing modern-powered cards into the format for curation without the need to balance for lower power, or consequently ruin those formats. Under a different rubric, all the same cards would still exist but they would have hosed up standard and pioneer, the only difference this way is that they all happen to have the same expansion symbol.

The real downside here is the dollar cost but that's a problem with Magic's core economy, not MH2 specifically

Edit; to answer the core question of "what changed" more directly, they used Horizons to print things that Modern really needed given the evolution of the format, like free interaction. Before Horizons, Modern was two ships passing in the night for years because you couldn't afford to actually spend mana to interact with your opponent, because deck consistency and velocity was at a critical level. You could never stop powerful things from happening because then you're not doing your own powerful things and your opponents deck was never going to STOP doing powerful things, so spending mana to try to stop them ended up being markedly worse strategy than just trying to do more powerful things faster

That's cool and all but Ragavan and DRC and Murktide and W6 aren't interaction.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty
when did they describe what was going to be in dominaria remastered? I hope it's actually printed properly and not horribly underprinted like time spiral remastered.

quote:

36 Dominaria Remastered MTG Draft Boosters—the best boosters for drafting Dominaria Remastered
15 Magic cards per booster
1 Retro-Frame card of any rarity + 1 Retro-Frame Land in every pack
1 card of rarity Rare or higher in every pack
1 Traditional Foil card in 33% of packs
Wield the power of the past with reprints spanning 27 different MTG sets throughout Dominaria's history

cards pulled from 27 sets, apparently specifically dominaria-related, huh? interesting.

edit: judging by the art on the collector box, seems Flametongue Kavu's back
https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Gather...0B8453TN1&psc=1

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!

Captain Invictus posted:

when did they describe what was going to be in dominaria remastered? I hope it's actually printed properly and not horribly underprinted like time spiral remastered.

They didn't, that's just WotC cutting out middlemen. Its going to go the same as Double Masters 2, if they're already pulling this poo poo. They didn't really underprint, they're just selling it direct 6 weeks before WPN stores can solicit orders. People jump on the early sales and WotC starts short stocking distributors To fulfill the orders made at full retail.

Barry Shitpeas
Dec 17, 2003

there is no need
to be upset

Winner POTM July 2013
Modern Horizons sucks because they could have printed some new Eldrazi but they didn't and now my Legacy deck is bad

Silhouette
Nov 16, 2002

SONIC BOOM!!!

Captain Invictus posted:

when did they describe what was going to be in dominaria remastered? I hope it's actually printed properly and not horribly underprinted like time spiral remastered.

cards pulled from 27 sets, apparently specifically dominaria-related, huh? interesting.

edit: judging by the art on the collector box, seems Flametongue Kavu's back
https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Gather...0B8453TN1&psc=1

Every set from before Mirrodin is Dominaria-centric, except Arabian Nights (The 1001 Shards of Rabiah), Homelands (Ulgrotha) and Masques block (Mercadia), and then Time Spiral block and Dominaria 2018 are

Edit: m21 could also be argued to be a Dominaria set, since it's a retelling of the Mirage war

Edit 2: that's ABU, Legends, Dark, Antiquities, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, Alliances, Mirage, Visions, Weatherlight, Portal, Tempest, Stronghold, Exodus, Portal 2, Urza's Saga, Urza's Destiny, Urza's Legacy, Invasion, Planeshift, Apocalypse, Odyssey, Torment, Judgement, Onslaught, Legions, Scourge, Coldsnap, Time Spiral, Planar Chaos, Future Sight, Dominaria and M21

That's actually 33 sets, so who knows what they're not including

Silhouette fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Sep 18, 2022

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

The Shortest Path posted:

That's cool and all but Ragavan and DRC and Murktide and W6 aren't interaction.

Its like you didn't read the post you were quoting.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin
Exodus block too.

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received
Wrenn & Six's -1 can target creatures ergo it is interaction.

Silhouette
Nov 16, 2002

SONIC BOOM!!!

HootTheOwl posted:

Exodus block too.

Exodus was set 3 in the Tempest block

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Silhouette posted:

Exodus was set 3 in the Tempest block

Please.

The Rath Cycle.

Goa Tse-tung
Feb 11, 2008

;3

Yams Fan

Framboise posted:

:stonk:

Absolutely absurd. Just buy the precon if you can. I've seen them in stores for around that price as it is.

fwiw the precons always sell for the compound of their most expensive singles, i.e. BMC and the three other mentioned means it sells for more than initial price (roughly 60 bux in europe)

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



I remember when Modern was introduced, and it was "Whatever the best standard decks were, with slightly better cantrips." Then it became "Which turn 3 kill combo is more consistent". Blighted Shoal, Eggs, and Amulet Titan were extremely cool decks, although they tended to create boring games. Now it's "Block Constructed: Modern Horizons".

kalel
Jun 19, 2012

Barry Shitpeas posted:

Modern Horizons sucks because they could have printed some new Eldrazi but they didn't and now my Legacy deck is bad

don't worry, in five years when the eldrazi rotate around to being the big bad, they'll print a hosed up ragavan eldrazi to put the archetype back on top baybee

Silhouette
Nov 16, 2002

SONIC BOOM!!!

Toshimo posted:

Please.

The Rath Cycle.

Man, they dropped that nomenclature real fuckin quick didn't they

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

Sickening posted:

This is pretty trivial right now. All our Chinese friends have about any expensive modern halo proxy for like 3 bucks a piece. Can’t recommend it enough.

Not this counterfeit poo poo again

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!

Goa Tse-tung posted:

fwiw the precons always sell for the compound of their most expensive singles, i.e. BMC and the three other mentioned means it sells for more than initial price (roughly 60 bux in europe)

I wouldn't say always. For some reason Mindflayaaars is selling for $70 despite the most expensive singles being Heralds Horn and Lightning Greaves.

TotalHell
Feb 22, 2005

Roman Reigns fights CM Punk in fantasy warld. Lotsa violins, so littl kids cant red it.


Tempest block is a weird one because Rath wasn’t a part of Dominaria, but then it merged or something, right? So does it count now, or no because it was a separate plane when it was printed?

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

ilmucche posted:

Not this counterfeit poo poo again

When you become a mod one day you can outlaw it. Until then, scroll past it.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!

TotalHell posted:

Tempest block is a weird one because Rath wasn’t a part of Dominaria, but then it merged or something, right? So does it count now, or no because it was a separate plane when it was printed?

I believe they specifically mentioned that block as being involved.

CatstropheWaitress
Nov 26, 2017

ilmucche posted:

Not this counterfeit poo poo again

don't proxy that moxy

(proxies are fine)

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

The World Inferno posted:

don't proxy that moxy

(proxies are fine)

Proxies good, counterfeits bad :respek:

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

ilmucche posted:

Proxies good, counterfeits bad :respek:

Counterfeits great! Spend full price if you want to. It’s your money after all. I am going to enjoy having all the m2 staples in any version of the card I please, for a price that is actually reasonable.

Hell, the only downside was that it took 2 to weeks on average on arrival.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



A fun card game should cost $3,000 to play or it isn't fun anymore

Reynold
Feb 14, 2012

Suffer not the unclean to live.
legit cards only for me, proxies aren't allowed at my house. poo poo, if you don't have a for reals printed token that matches what a card tells you to create, then I won't let you play it

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012
Unban counterfeiting in Modern, Wizards

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

ilmucche posted:

Not this counterfeit poo poo again

Monkey shouldn’t cost 80 dollars a pop and if you think otherwise you are welcome to gently caress off

It was not reasonable to keep collecting cards during COVID and now the only way to catch up is blow a month’s mortgage and I’m not doing that.

I’m going to use fake monkes and fake pitch elementals and I cannot be stopped

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

TheKingofSprings posted:

Monkey shouldn’t cost 80 dollars a pop and if you think otherwise you are welcome to gently caress off

It was not reasonable to keep collecting cards during COVID and now the only way to catch up is blow a month’s mortgage and I’m not doing that.

I’m going to use fake monkes and fake pitch elementals and I cannot be stopped

lol, i don't think monkeys should cost 80 dollars each, what in my posting ever gave you that idea?

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

ilmucche posted:

lol, i don't think monkeys should cost 80 dollars each, what in my posting ever gave you that idea?

IDK dude it came off strongly as you scoffing at people sick of Wizards financial treadmill and the utterly insane degree to which they’ve ramped it up and wanting to play without engaging with it, you could replace Monkey with any card but that’s the one in particular that pisses me off the most

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Paper should work with Wildcards like Arena does. Every Rare/Mythic is worth the same.

sit on my Facebook
Jun 20, 2007

ASS GAS OR GRASS
No One Rides for FREE
In the Trumplord Holy Land
Counterfeits are fine if you either mark them or they have non-standard backs. If you pass counterfeits off to anybody who doesn't know, you're an rear end in a top hat. There you go, next topic.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

ドーナツダメ!

sit on my Facebook posted:

Counterfeits are fine if you either mark them or they have non-standard backs. If you pass counterfeits off to anybody who doesn't know, you're an rear end in a top hat. There you go, next topic.

Basically no one disagrees with this (at least not in this thread) but the real telling thing is that whenever someone posts something along the lines of

ilmucche posted:

Not this counterfeit poo poo again

someone has to come around knee jerking poo poo like

TheKingofSprings posted:

Monkey shouldn’t cost 80 dollars a pop and if you think otherwise you are welcome to gently caress off

It was not reasonable to keep collecting cards during COVID and now the only way to catch up is blow a month’s mortgage and I’m not doing that.

I’m going to use fake monkes and fake pitch elementals and I cannot be stopped

as if it’s some glorious revelation that the secondary market is absolute poo poo. (Yes, I am calling you out on this, King.)

You’re an rear end in a top hat if you try to pass off fakes as the real thing. You’re also an rear end in a top hat if you try to act like counterfeiting is some defensible moral high ground.

And the worst part of this thread is people going around masturbatory circles about this loving topic.

If I were the IC, I’d probate anyone who brings it up at all because it never results in reasonable discussions.
/rant

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?

AlternateNu posted:

Basically no one disagrees with this (at least not in this thread) but the real telling thing is that whenever someone posts something along the lines of

someone has to come around knee jerking poo poo like

as if it’s some glorious revelation that the secondary market is absolute poo poo. (Yes, I am calling you out on this, King.)

You’re an rear end in a top hat if you try to pass off fakes as the real thing. You’re also an rear end in a top hat if you try to act like counterfeiting is some defensible moral high ground.

And the worst part of this thread is people going around masturbatory circles about this loving topic.

If I were the IC, I’d probate anyone who brings it up at all because it never results in reasonable discussions.
/rant

This is a good post

TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012
I’m perfectly fine with being an rear end in a top hat if it lets me play in Modern tournaments while I care to play in them. Once I’m done those monkeys will end up in a paper shredder but if they’re the gatekeeper to having an actual, functioning deck that’s just how it’ll be. I’m done with the current paradigm of formats being upended repeatedly biannually but still want to play the game I enjoy competitively.

I think the recent rise in Pioneer is partly from how insane prices in Modern have gotten. If your deck is going to be invalidated it’s at least cheaper to buy in there for now.

Time
Aug 1, 2011

It Was All A Dream
i want to play pioneer more but i just find it boring

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Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

AlternateNu posted:

Basically no one disagrees with this (at least not in this thread)

Then I think you will be surprised.

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