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I can't stand all these braindead "peace" movements that think the conflict is just two equally bad sides who need someone to come in, get them talking, and agree to stop fighting. It's an entirely one-sided genocidal war of aggression, focus your effort on Putin. Ukraine is happy to stop the war once the invaders stop invading. What do these "peace" proponents expect? Some give and take? Putin gets to do a little genocide in a few regions in exchange for peace? Absolutely evil.
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Sep 19, 2022 03:30
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Baronjutter posted:I can't stand all these braindead "peace" movements that think the conflict is just two equally bad sides who need someone to come in, get them talking, and agree to stop fighting. It's an entirely one-sided genocidal war of aggression, focus your effort on Putin. Ukraine is happy to stop the war once the invaders stop invading. What do these "peace" proponents expect? Some give and take? Putin gets to do a little genocide in a few regions in exchange for peace? Absolutely evil. But you see all war is bad forever, no matter the circumstances! They've never had to deal with such conditions themselves, never had to literally fight for their lives against an enemy that wants nothing more than to kill them and everyone who looks and speaks like them, so they think that peace is still an option. That if only these stubborn Ukranians would just put down their guns and listen everyone would stop fighting and we could wank ourselves raw about what good peacekeepers we are, despite having achieved precisely nothing and given the genocidal dictator precisely what he wanted and no reason not to do it again later. It's a similar vein as the brain-dead stupid loving useless 'zero tolerance' bullshit in US schools re: bullying. It takes two to fight! Defending yourself makes you just as bad as the aggressor! 
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Sep 19, 2022 04:12
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Mokotow posted:https://twitter.com/thedeaddistrict/status/1571542414078414848?s=46&t=Fdcgtr-p1vzjtiVFo9EkEw For all those war thunder players, they couldn't afford the good ammo for their top of the line tank either. They're still using ammo tech from 1985. https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1571550542773604357
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Sep 19, 2022 04:32
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Another dawn is breaking in Kyiv, and it's still Ukrainian.   
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Sep 19, 2022 04:38
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Mokotow posted:I was excited by the discarded radars and command systems left behind by the russians, but this one I find extra interesting, because MBTs are fun and I hope this T-90 is getting loaded into a plane in Rzeszów as we speak.
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Sep 19, 2022 05:14
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The Lone Badger posted:Which alphabet-agency is responsible for procurement and transport of stuff like this? The DoD? Just a guess.
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Sep 19, 2022 05:16
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The Lone Badger posted:Which alphabet-agency is responsible for procurement and transport of stuff like this? Considering the rarity of functional Russian technology, the X-files.
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Sep 19, 2022 05:27
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Mr. Apollo posted:Reuters reported on it too. Yeah, that's a papal statement. Rings pretty clear too: "try to talk to them, but if they won't listen, well, light 'em up"
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Sep 19, 2022 05:45
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In Catholic countries the Pope is invited to summits before the belligerents
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Sep 19, 2022 06:48
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Vietnom nom nom posted:Apparently Pugacheva is back in country having returned when the school year started since her kids go to school in Russia.
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Sep 19, 2022 07:18
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Nenonen posted:Wait, what? Pugacheva has school aged children? Or do you mean her husband? Wiki says she had twins eleven years ago via a surrogate.
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Sep 19, 2022 08:17
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Nenonen posted:Wait, what? Pugacheva has school aged children? Or do you mean her husband? Man I read that the wrong way and I thought you meant her husband was school aged.
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Sep 19, 2022 08:34
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This is mostly to mock anyone who ever cited Michael Tracey approvingly, but he's currently doing a 'Actually US and British entry into WW2 was an escalation that forced Hitler to do a genocide' https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1571653737705517056
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Sep 19, 2022 09:02
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Alchenar posted:This is mostly to mock anyone who ever cited Michael Tracey approvingly, but he's currently doing a 'Actually US and British entry into WW2 was an escalation that forced Hitler to do a genocide' lol imagine not just thinking that such a hot take makes sense, but also thinking that it is a good idea to post it on twitter. (Just the fact that the first camps opened 1933 pops this stupid thesis)
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Sep 19, 2022 09:21
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Alchenar posted:This is mostly to mock anyone who ever cited Michael Tracey approvingly, but he's currently doing a 'Actually US and British entry into WW2 was an escalation that forced Hitler to do a genocide' the perfidious Americans made Hitler do a Holocaust
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Sep 19, 2022 09:22
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lilljonas posted:lol imagine not just thinking that such a hot take makes sense, but also thinking that it is a good idea to post it on twitter. The death camps was an evolution of ongoing process. At first it was just mass executions by shooting but when the good old wehrmacht and even SS started going insane from executing people all day every day their leadership decided its time to automate the process
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Sep 19, 2022 09:29
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Fragrag posted:Man I read that the wrong way and I thought you meant her husband was school aged.  Pugacheva being known for lovers that are decades younger than her.
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Sep 19, 2022 09:31
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Sekenr posted:The death camps was an evolution of ongoing process. At first it was just mass executions by shooting but when the good old wehrmacht and even SS started going insane from executing people all day every day their leadership decided its time to automate the process The opening of Dachau and other camps in 1933 were quite different from the post-Wansee camps - while Dachau has a fake shower / gas chanber it is consensus that they basically never used it to kill prisoners en masse (I visited it in 2004 as I was arguing with Holocaust denier Matt Giwer online). Dachau was a labor camp, not an extermination camp - deaths happened there but they were really mostly a side-effect of the camp conditions as opposed to a program of murder like the Operation Reinhard camps (Sobibor, Belzec, Treblinka, Birkenau, etc.) A comment I've seen in the literature is something along the lines of "If you suggested to German leaders in 1939 there should be extermination camps for Jews and political opponents you would have shocked everyone" - but only two years later it was more or less accepted without a hint of discord. For people without much experience in the background I would recommend Inga Clendinnen's book "Reading the Holocaust" for a starter: https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Holocaust-Canto-Inga-Clendinnen/dp/0521012694
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Sep 19, 2022 09:39
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Rust Martialis posted:The opening of Dachau and other camps in 1933 were quite different from the post-Wansee camps - while Dachau has a fake shower / gas chanber it is consensus that they basically never used it to kill prisoners en masse (I visited it in 2004 as I was arguing with Holocaust denier Matt Giwer online). Dachau was a labor camp, not an extermination camp - deaths happened there but they were really mostly a side-effect of the camp conditions as opposed to a program of murder like the Operation Reinhard camps (Sobibor, Belzec, Treblinka, Birkenau, etc.) Not sure what point are you trying to make?
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Sep 19, 2022 09:53
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Sekenr posted:Not sure what point are you trying to make? sebmojo posted:the perfidious Americans made Hitler do a Holocaust
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Sep 19, 2022 09:55
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It's all so clear! Human suffering has been "managerial incompetence" since the Hittites.
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Sep 19, 2022 09:56
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I mean it's absolutely true that in late 1941 official Nazi policy changes from 'evacuation' and neglect to active industrial extermination, and that a big reason for that change was that with the failure to defeat the USSR in one campaign and the entry of the US into the war, the Nazis realised they had a long war on their hands and options for a quick peace and further expulsions weren't available. On the other hand, Germany declared war on the US, not the other way around. Months of 'Putin it's Hitler these comparisons are ridiculous' and Tracey is now literally arguing that US lend-lease to Britain was a bad escalation of WW2 as a direct comparison for why military gifting to Ukraine is wrong. e:\/ oh yeah Nazi policy always had genocide as the end goal, the war just set the timetable Alchenar fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 10:04
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It should also be noted that the Nazi policy was already pivoting towards extermination before the Wannsee conference. Systematic massacres targeting the Jewish population in the east were happening from the very beginning of the war, and the order to prepare the "Final Solution" was penned in July of 1941. Tracey is absolutely full of poo poo as usual.
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Sep 19, 2022 10:26
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Nenonen posted:What do you think Ukraine's supporters can do about Iran selling weapons to Russia? Local Eastern European charities working directly with Ukrainian frontline troops have recently made a big push for crowdfunding for anti-drone electromagnetic guns
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Sep 19, 2022 10:27
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Alchenar posted:I mean it's absolutely true that in late 1941 official Nazi policy changes from 'evacuation' and neglect to active industrial extermination, and that a big reason for that change was that with the failure to defeat the USSR in one campaign and the entry of the US into the war, the Nazis realised they had a long war on their hands and options for a quick peace and further expulsions weren't available. On the other hand, Germany declared war on the US, not the other way around. Much like plucky poor Russia today, Germany was forced to continuously declare wars on its neighbours due to encroaching military alliances aimed against it. They were really the victims acting against creeping subliminal aggression by the so called democratic nations. If only somebody had tried to appease Hitler and alleviate his Legitimate Security ConcernsTM
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Sep 19, 2022 10:39
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https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1571467848630910976
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Sep 19, 2022 10:40
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Possibly Kherson today  Serious post... golden bubble posted:For all those war thunder players, they couldn't afford the good ammo for their top of the line tank either. They're still using ammo tech from 1985.
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Sep 19, 2022 10:47
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Not many details but a bit more trustworthy than randos on twitterquote:Ukrainian forces say they have regained control of the east bank of the River Oskil, seen as the front line with Russian troops in north-east Ukraine.
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Sep 19, 2022 11:10
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A Russian T-72B3 eating an ATGM missile (looks like a Konkurs or Fagot) but brushes it off. cinci edit:  https://twitter.com/Frostilicus_/status/1571798526635515904  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 12:43
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Fragrag posted:Man I read that the wrong way and I thought you meant her husband was school aged. While Galkin does look like he is 16 apparently he is actually 46.
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Sep 19, 2022 12:48
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Rust Martialis posted:The opening of Dachau and other camps in 1933 were quite different from the post-Wansee camps - while Dachau has a fake shower / gas chanber it is consensus that they basically never used it to kill prisoners en masse (I visited it in 2004 as I was arguing with Holocaust denier Matt Giwer online). Dachau was a labor camp, not an extermination camp - deaths happened there but they were really mostly a side-effect of the camp conditions as opposed to a program of murder like the Operation Reinhard camps (Sobibor, Belzec, Treblinka, Birkenau, etc.) When was the Wansee conference? Oh, prior to the entry of the United States during the Second World War. When did the Einsatzgruppen start the wholesale murder of Jews in Poland and on the territory of the USSR? Oh, July of of 1941. When did the United States declare war on Germany? Oh, after Hitler declared war on the United States. Got it. Denying Nazi Germany agency in the assembly line murder of millions of human beings, and blaming it instead on the United States is batshit crazy Holocaust apologia. Check. Edit For posting 10 minutes after I woke up. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 12:53
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Babyn Yar was September 41.
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Sep 19, 2022 13:03
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Sekenr posted:Not sure what point are you trying to make? Getting details like this incorrect plays into the hands of holocaust deniers and such. One of their classic tools for ages now has been to say things like “ACTUALLY you’ve been lied to about human skin lampshades. Look it up! What else are they lying to you about?” It’s good to have someone correcting the record when mistakes get made. the other hand fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 13:04
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I kind of feel like "Genocider doers were just incompetent guys..." honestly provokes a much more visceral reaction than just outright genocide denial. As a third party observer. With outright and explicit genocide denial you at least make your intentions and agendas clear. Genocide denialism through charges of incompetency or the like outside of academia always comes across like trying to muddy the waters. I'm sure some people have genuine and honest intentions, but it never comes across that way. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 13:12
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ZombieLenin posted:When was the Also it mischaracterizes what, precisely, happened at the Wansee Conference- that was not a meeting of minds to decide on method, that was already well determined at a higher level. It was Heydrich telling everyone else to get on board or get the gently caress out. This is why most of the camp infrastructure was already under construction.
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Sep 19, 2022 13:15
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are we really doing the functionalism–intentionalism debate in the Ukraine thread? -- https://twitter.com/meduza_en/status/1571837103343820801?s=20&t=YSp6XPXX6DnrB0XbFXd8EA
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Sep 19, 2022 13:45
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Panzeh posted:Also it mischaracterizes what, precisely, happened at the Wansee Conference- that was not a meeting of minds to decide on method, that was already well determined at a higher level. It was Heydrich telling everyone else to get on board or get the gently caress out. This is why most of the camp infrastructure was already under construction. There was an operable camp at Auschwitz accepting deported Polish Jews in loving May of 1940. I don’t know if the poster I quoted was trying to back up in some way Michael Tracey’s insane claim that the United States caused the genocidal behavior of Nazi Germany, but my great grandfather was a Ukrainian Jew who barely made it out of Ukraine before the Nazis murdered his entire family, served in the Red Army and was wounded in 1945 and treated at a British field hospital—and somehow managed to make it to the United States after recovering. I’ve got very, very little patience for that sort of holocaust denialism/blame shifting bullshit.
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Sep 19, 2022 14:01
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FishBulbia posted:are we really doing the functionalism–intentionalism debate in the Ukraine thread? It's what killed the GBS thread. Which is a shame because I enjoyed seeing Russia getting owned with a sarcastic spin. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 19, 2022 14:08
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Will Russia actually end hostilities if Ukraine pushes them out of its territory? Like if the pre 2022 borders are restored with the DNR/LNR evicted or if pre 2014 borders are restored what is the end game? If I were to guess my own view is there will be some kind of new "colder" conflict similar to Israel and Palestine. With Ukraine controlling its territory the Russians will just engage in ongoing missile attacks on holidays, random occasions etc and Ukraine will need something like the Iron Dome to prevent the Russians from keeping Ukraine's economy from functioning properly. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 19, 2022 14:16
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Kraftwerk posted:Will Russia actually end hostilities if Ukraine pushes them out of its territory? Like if the pre 2022 borders are restored with the DNR/LNR evicted or if pre 2014 borders are restored what is the end game? Why should we try to guess about something that is still so far from realising that we have no way of predicting a single thing about it?
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Sep 19, 2022 14:22
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