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Angry_Ed posted:The one constant about Republicans and their allies: they don't want to do work. They would rather hand it off to someone else (projection again of course) and then whinge when they don't get the results they imagined Bad leaders imagine that leadership is a hands-off process where you hire someone to do a thing and report back without any engagement on your part. It's the same for politics as it is in the military, the corporate environment, etc. This is normally something that requires a lot of training to address so I'm not exactly shocked that those in elected positions are prone to taking the laissez-faire approach.
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Sep 20, 2022 15:32
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I guess the theory is that if you hand off all the work to someone else then Trump's supporters will go after that person instead of you
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Sep 20, 2022 16:10
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I mean, not doing the work is possibly part of it but I think most of the Trumpists involved are mainly just desperately trying to cover their own asses as hard as they can
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Sep 20, 2022 17:33
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Angry_Ed posted:The one constant about Republicans and their allies: they don't want to do work. They would rather hand it off to someone else (projection again of course) and then whinge when they don't get the results they imagined. Shirking responsibility so they can yell at someone for not going along with the masquerade. This is true of nearly everyone in any position of power these days. I see it in republicans, I see it in democrats, I see it in business leadership at all levels. Nobody wants to do anything at all. They want to criticize and any part of the actual job that they would be responsible becomes someone else's problem.
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Sep 20, 2022 17:53
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Hearing with the special master didn't seem to go well for Trump https://twitter.com/Jose_Pagliery/status/1572297392279404564 Piell fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Sep 20, 2022 |
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Sep 20, 2022 20:21
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Piell posted:Hearing with the special master didn't seem to go well for Trump Trumps going to attack the special master he wanted by lunchtime tomorrow. Is he going to be corrupt? A democrat? Corrupted by the deep state? All of them?
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Sep 20, 2022 20:39
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Meatball posted:Trumps going to attack the special master he wanted by lunchtime tomorrow. Is he going to be corrupt? A democrat? Corrupted by the deep state? All of them? The Clintons got to him!
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Sep 20, 2022 20:43
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Meatball posted:Trumps going to attack the special master he wanted by lunchtime tomorrow. Is he going to be corrupt? A democrat? Corrupted by the deep state? All of them? He most certainly will. I wouldn't even be surprised by another veiled threat of violence, like a "Truth" saying "The people of the United States won't stand for another hoax investigation of your Favorite President (me!) You'll have problems in this Country like nobody's ever seen before." That's how bad things are for him right now. He may also go back to Cannon and ask her to dismiss the Special Master he worked so hard to get appointed.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:44
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Piell posted:Hearing with the special master didn't seem to go well for Trump quote:Although Cannon ordered Dearie to finish his review by Nov. 30, court filings reveal that Dearie actually wants all records labeled and ready to review by Oct. 7. Even the best case scenario for Justice here (Cannon getting stayed en route to being overruled ASAP) is still a rousing success for Trump's desire to postpone until his defenders have a chance to seize the House. I mean, it's great that the Reaganite SM isn't immediately overturning law and reason to aid Trump and things could be worse, but keeping it in context is great.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:56
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Most of legal Twitter (former AUSAs, etc.) seemed to think Dearie would be disastrous for Trump for exactly this reason: he's going to ask the questions Cannon didn't, and consider the issues she didn't. Her ruling was unlawful but not as stupid as many might think. On the slim chance it's upheld by the 11th Circuit, it would have been worth the try.
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Sep 20, 2022 21:00
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Time is set, the 28th at 1pm (eastern presumably, until they change it). Next January 6th hearing. https://twitter.com/lukebroadwater/status/1572296976384794624
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Sep 20, 2022 23:38
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Lets just hope that someone actually does something with all of this info. At least it will be remembered. That is, until GOP gets back in power and wipes it all out of every history book. Guessing Florida and Texas will be vying to be the first one to do that.
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Sep 20, 2022 23:49
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 Enjoy (at your own risk) https://patriots.win/search?params=dearie+&community=TheDonald
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Sep 21, 2022 00:00
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cr0y posted:
Trump nominated Dearie and the chudge appointed him. This is admitting that Trump got beaten by the deep state, no?
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Sep 21, 2022 00:07
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Trump nominated Dearie and the chudge appointed him. This is admitting that Trump got beaten by the deep state, no? PhantomOfTheCopier posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/19/us/politics/trump-herschmann-documents.html?searchResultPosition=1 E: now that I think about it, the relevant charges probably don't require proving corrupt intent mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 00:28
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Trump nominated Dearie and the chudge appointed him. This is admitting that Trump got beaten by the deep state, no? He has been beaten by the deep state at literally every turn, no one cares.
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Sep 21, 2022 00:30
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I read somewhere that "the deep state" is just a euphemism for "competent administrators executing the rule of law" and so far it tracks perfectly.
snorch fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 00:51
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So if I understood the Trump position is that he telepathically declassified the documents, except nobody is allowed to know which ones are declassified, except his Twitter followers they can know.
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Sep 21, 2022 01:03
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mobby_6kl posted:E: now that I think about it, the relevant charges probably don't require proving corrupt intent In short, state of mind is a key element of all three crimes on the warrant. 18 U.S.C. § 793 (Espionage Act - in Trump's case, most likely the retention of National Defense Information from (e)): quote:or willfully retains [national defense information] and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it 18 U.S.C. § 2071 ("concealment, removal, or mutilation, generally") quote:To be convicted of a violation of Section 2071, one must also act with the requisite state of mind— “willfully and unlawfully.” This requirement appears stringent. According to the Ninth Circuit, the standard requires one to act “intentionally, with knowledge that he was breaching the statute.” Under this standard, belief in the lawfulness of one’s actions could negate the state-of-mind requirement. 18 U.S.C. § 1519 (Obstruction) quote:Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. There's a case that the June trip to Mar A Lago was specifically to hamper any state of mind defenses, and as such we will only see charges for after. "An adviser told you it could be bad" is a good start for proving proof of mind but is nowhere near "Feds repeatedly made clear you had documents you shouldn't have in places you shouldn't have and you held onto them even though you told them you gave them everything".
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Sep 21, 2022 01:06
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Meatball posted:Trumps going to attack the special master he wanted by lunchtime tomorrow. Is he going to be corrupt? A democrat? Corrupted by the deep state? All of them? It's pretty wild just how many lying coffee boy washed up has been lying deep state losers there are who are lying that find themselves in Trump's inner circle even though he surrounds himself with the best most amazing people. To still be all in on trump these days you have to believe that every single solitary person other than Donald is making poo poo up and constantly lying. For some reason. and yeah, it'll be something dumb and childish like "turns out they weren't very special at all and they were a master at losing" I've written it before but I 100% that Trump doesn't even know what a special master is or even does and just wanted one because he likes the words "special" and "master" BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 01:12
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The Lone Badger posted:So if I understood the Trump position is that he telepathically declassified the documents, except nobody is allowed to know which ones are declassified, except his Twitter followers they can know. He's not on Twitter. They are followers of the Truth. The Trump Truth.
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Sep 21, 2022 01:12
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BiggerBoat posted:It's pretty wild just how many lying coffee boy washed up has been lying deep state losers there are who are lying that find themselves in Trump's inner circle even though he surrounds himself with the best most amazing people. To still be all in on trump these days you have to believe that every single solitary person other than Donald is making poo poo up and constantly lying. For some reason. His lawyers decided this was the best way to delay things as much as possible and told Trump this would allow him to win. More importantly, the SM they suggested was appointed by Saint Reagan and would never rule or act against a true American Patriot and Republican like Trump.
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Sep 21, 2022 01:18
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Dearie is turning out better than I thought. “The government says all these are classified, if so then by definition they belong to the government. Otherwise give me proof that they aren’t classified. No? Easy peasy.” It’s going to be interesting to see Cannon’s response once Trump crawls back to her whining about the mean old FISA court judge who won’t play his game right. Cannon over ruling a former Chief Justice of the EDNY for not understanding the subtle point that Trump is still president is going to be hilarious.
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Sep 21, 2022 02:14
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A former FISA judge is about as close to definitionally deep state as you can get so it's a stopped clock situation. lol that they loving nominated a guy who worked closely with intel community for years because they thought he'd be likely to stall a counter-intelligence investigation
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Sep 21, 2022 02:20
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The single best piece of news so far was the original deadline of 11/30 getting moved to an intended finish by 10/7. It's probably going to be a very tough argument to make that Dearie should take more time than he himself believes is required.
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Sep 21, 2022 02:22
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Shooting Blanks posted:The single best piece of news so far was the original deadline of 11/30 getting moved to an intended finish by 10/7. It's probably going to be a very tough argument to make that Dearie should take more time than he himself believes is required. This is incorrect. Dearie seeks all records labeled and ready to review by Oct. 7. He's still moving faster than Trump would like, but that's extremely different than being done by 10/7.
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Sep 21, 2022 02:48
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Paracaidas posted:This is incorrect. Dearie seeks all records labeled and ready to review by Oct. 7. I initially misread it then, thanks for the clarification!
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Sep 21, 2022 03:03
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All good, you're far from the only one. Lots of false and misleading poo poo spread by folks who (mostly) know better, figure we may as well try to keep this space accurate!
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Sep 21, 2022 03:18
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Question which has probably come up before. If the American justice system is insane enough to agree that a magic (former) presidents handwave makes stuff declassified, without any procedure, does that mean the general public gets to know what's inside these documents? Obviously none of this will hold with regards to nuclear stuff.
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Sep 21, 2022 07:01
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The Special Master thing is currently Very Funny but if Dearie won’t face any repercussion for their actions (outside of decorum) this is all feels destined to get clogged up in the courts and shot down by Trump judges. I mean why not just shoot everything down?
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Sep 21, 2022 16:16
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Automata 10 Pack posted:The Special Master thing is currently Very Funny but if Dearie won’t face any repercussion for their actions (outside of decorum) this is all feels destined to get clogged up in the courts and shot down by Trump judges. I don't think it's clear what you're actually asking
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Sep 21, 2022 16:31
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https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/1572610024442105857?t=oSJ0gewHBTgxDmjCFegPIQ&s=19 She also made criminal referrals to SDNY and the IRS (as this is a lawsuit).
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Sep 21, 2022 16:56
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An update of "cleanup on aisle 45" about the DoJ's appeal and some other news: https://mswmedia.com/show/clean-up-on-aisle-45/
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Sep 21, 2022 17:20
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cant cook creole bream posted:Question which has probably come up before. No. The decision would only apply to getting trump out of consequences and not in any real way, because everyone knows that this is all play-acting within the framework of partisan politics
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Sep 21, 2022 17:23
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Automata 10 Pack posted:The Special Master thing is currently Very Funny but if Dearie won’t face any repercussion for their actions (outside of decorum) this is all feels destined to get clogged up in the courts and shot down by Trump judges.  ianalThe only role the SM fills is vetting artifacts as valid for use as evidence. By definition, the job is reductive in the sense that they can only declare artifacts as privileged to the aggrieved (not "defendant", since there have been no charges). The DOJ was already in possession of the documents, "their" documents; this is only about identifying any that shall not be used for the ongoing investigation. This is why the DOJ filed the 11th appeal. Certain categories of documents by definition belong to the executive branch; they neither need review nor is there any possible legal claim to them from an individual. If documents are declassified, that doesn't mean they cannot be taken in an investigation, simply that material was collected that may be beyond the scope of the warrant. The SM though, in this scenario, is appointed to protect the rights of the aggrieved. It's of no possible value to the DOJ, except to prevent a future appeal that might be based on artifacts that shouldn't have been used as evidence. (Even after all this they'll still appeal.)
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Sep 21, 2022 17:31
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Jaxyon posted:No. The decision would only apply to getting trump out of consequences and not in any real way, because everyone knows that this is all play-acting within the framework of partisan politics Please refrain from saying "everyone knows" about any assertion. To make an argument persuasive and falsifiable you should talk about specific credible people who know, polls that show it's the majority opinion, demonstrations of your own reasoning for it, etc.
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Sep 21, 2022 19:34
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Something I had forgotten. It's not permitted to draw inferences from testimony when the individual pleads the 5th in criminal trials, but the same testimony in a civil case can be used to establish inferences if there's other evidence. https://www.lanepowell.com/Our-Insights/221205/Taking-the-Fifth-in-a-Civil-Context
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Sep 21, 2022 22:27
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Something I had forgotten. It's not permitted to draw inferences from testimony when the individual pleads the 5th in criminal trials, but the same testimony in a civil case can be used to establish inferences if there's other evidence. https://www.lanepowell.com/Our-Insights/221205/Taking-the-Fifth-in-a-Civil-Context Yes, that's why typically you wouldn't start a civil trial before a criminal trial. Usually you'd delay the civil trial until after, because you can be compelled to testify.
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Sep 21, 2022 22:45
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DoJ only really cares about the classified documents, the executive privilege vs NARA fight isn’t really their dog in this fight. Not saying they’ll bow out once dearie or the 11th settle it but I doubt they care if Trump spends years trying to convince various courts that he really does control the presidential records from his time in office despite what the PRA says. Speaking of the 11th, Trumps response to the DOJ appeal was due yesterday but I haven’t seen any news of it. Did they just decide not to contest the stay? Edit: no they did respond. Just same old nonsense that DOJ has to prove the documents are classified before they can have them. Which is all kinds of non-causal. The whole point of seizing them was to evaluate their classification status. Which is why the subpoena and search warrant were not for, “classified documents” but were for “documents with classification markings” Murgos fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 23:35
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Murgos posted:DoJ only really cares about the classified documents, the executive privilege vs NARA fight isn’t really their dog in this fight. They're letting it ride, as the metaphor goes. I don't believe the 11th will set this precedent, but hell I don't know nothin, to go by prior evidence.
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Sep 21, 2022 23:37
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