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Littlefinger was only out for himself and would cause the Kingdom to fall into chaos just because he would benefit from it. I've never got the same impression from Otto. His main concern seems to be the stability of the realm and would use any means to achieve it. Lying about Rhaenyra and Daemon, pimping out his daughter etc.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:37
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Maybe should have had the 'if you gently caress this up everyone you know and love will be murdered' talk beforehand hey Otto
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Sep 20, 2022 20:37
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Oh yeah, Criston is the show's biggest dumbass so far. this is just what happens when you study the blade for too drat long
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Sep 20, 2022 20:38
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Chemtrailologist posted:His main concern seems to be the stability of the realm and would use any means to achieve it. Lying about Rhaenyra and Daemon, pimping out his daughter etc. The most destabilizing thing to have happened so far is the birth of a prince which Otto caused.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:39
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Wasn't Otto also against supporting Corlys fight off the Crab King?
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Sep 20, 2022 20:41
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Super Deuce posted:Otto got himself fired. He overplayed his hand in a really stupid way. Alicent is a victim of her father’s manipulation, not being manipulated by Rhaenyra. (gently caress autocorrect hates GRRM names) I agree, I was talking about Alicent's perspective.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:42
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PostNouveau posted:The most destabilizing thing to have happened so far is the birth of a prince which Otto caused. Only because he thinks both Daemon and Rhaenyra would make terrible rulers in their own way. Haven't seen much to think he's wrong about this.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:44
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Chemtrailologist posted:Only because he thinks both Daemon and Rhaenyra would make terrible rulers in their own way. Haven't seen much to think he's wrong about this. Love to start civil wars to prevent a mean guy from being king I'm sure the fact that it's his family line now in the dynasty is a happy accident for Otto. Pleasant surprise my grandkids can be kings
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Sep 20, 2022 20:45
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The irony is that Otto is manipulating the king for his own advantage, but in this particular instance that got him banished he was being completely honest and acting in the realms best interests.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:48
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Toplowtech posted:LOL When you know some of Alicent's future choices. LMAO. PostNouveau posted:Love to start civil wars to prevent a mean guy from being king
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Sep 20, 2022 20:49
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PostNouveau posted:Love to start civil wars to prevent a mean guy from being king I think there's enough in-universe precedence to suggest that a bad Targaryen king may be more than just "mean". I should have mentioned that if Otto can impower his House while advising, he'll definitely do that.
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Sep 20, 2022 20:51
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Toplowtech posted:LOL When you know some of Alicent's future choices. LMAO. 
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Sep 20, 2022 20:51
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PostNouveau posted:He pushed the king hard to remarry when the obvious best path would have been to keep the king single and shore up the dynasty by getting Rheanyra married.
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Sep 20, 2022 21:04
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PostNouveau posted:The most destabilizing thing to have happened so far is the birth of a prince which Otto caused. betrothing rhaenyra and aegon frankly isn't that bad an idea from a political stability standpoint
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Sep 20, 2022 21:07
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Yeah but admit it, it's a GoT related thread, the question shouldn't be who is the sociopath, but who is the less sociopathic.nooneofconsequence posted:Otto explicitly pushed the king not to remarry, citing his own dead wife. He was running a longer game with Alicent but was getting outmaneuvered by everyone demanding Viserys take the child bride and got lucky the king couldn't help himself.
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Sep 20, 2022 21:08
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nooneofconsequence posted:Otto explicitly pushed the king not to remarry, citing his own dead wife. He was running a longer game with Alicent but was getting outmaneuvered by everyone demanding Viserys take the child bride and got lucky the king couldn't help himself. Pretty sure that was just because if he was telling the king to get married it would be extremely suspicious to push anyone besides the politically best choice child bride. "For the good of the realm. You should definitely marry my daughter" woulda gotten him fired then and there, it's too blatant.
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Sep 20, 2022 21:09
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Toplowtech posted:LOL … LMAO. Oh I see this thread is also plagued with people posting not-spoilers wink wink nudge nudge style. gently caress off man.
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Sep 20, 2022 21:13
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Typo posted:betrothing rhaenyra and aegon frankly isn't that bad an idea from a political stability standpoint Yeah, once the damage is done. Find some other way to smooth things over with Corlys and Rhanys
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Sep 20, 2022 21:16
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Boris Galerkin posted:
I suppose you could look at it that way, but Corlys seems pretty loyal / allied to Daemon. He argued for Daemon being the obvious heir when the succession was brought up, and he's relied on Daemon to be his proxy a few times in dealing with the king. I interpreted it more like a "maybe we need to reconsider this whole idea and maybe pack up and go home" kind of deal, rather than a near-coup.
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Sep 20, 2022 21:33
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Toplowtech posted:Yeah but admit it, it's a GoT related thread, the question shouldn't be who is the sociopath, but who is the less sociopathic.
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Sep 20, 2022 22:00
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Super Deuce posted:Rhaenyra is going to have to do some actually bad stuff soon for us to not see her faction as clearly the good guys. Her relationship with Cristen is pretty darn predatory, so she's already got that going against her.
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Sep 20, 2022 22:30
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She's also disdainful of the commonfolk, something even Daemon advises her not to be.
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Sep 20, 2022 22:37
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PizzaProwler posted:Her relationship with Cristen is pretty darn predatory, so she's already got that going against her. Roman Reigns posted:She's also disdainful of the commonfolk, something even Daemon advises her not to be. Yeah, she already has makings of a pretty dangerous monarch. Her foreign policy views (what little we know of them) seem to be aggressive and domineering. She's all in on royal absolutism, and is disdainful of politicking/internal diplomacy. She's a lot more like Daemon than Viserys.
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Sep 20, 2022 22:42
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I have a slightly more nuanced view of Otto as the Hand. As Viserys says, "Everyone on the Small Council is self-interested...", the trick for the king is to always see where their self interest lies and try to account for that in counsel. Otto is actually a pretty easy person to gauge his self interest because he is not subtle at all. On that matter, so is Corlys. They both give advice with their self-interest easy to see on their sleeves. For example, Corlys is pushing for a war in the Stepstones not only because it's good for the realm (maybe?) but mostly because he makes all his money off sea trade and it's crimping his profits. Corlys is pushing for marrying one of his kids into the dynasty not just because it would stabilize the realm, but mostly because he is harboring a giant grudge because his wife was never made queen. So when dealing with advice from Corlys, the king has to keep all that in mind and take the guy's hissy-fits in stride when he chooses to weigh the realm above the wants of Lord Corlys Velaryon. I mean, for fucks sake, Corlys suggested his own son be the heir in the first episode. Otto is very similar. It's really obvious what his self-interest is, and everyone can see it. He constantly makes suggestions that would bring his grandson closer to the throne, but when he's NOT doing that, his advice is pretty solid. The kingdom probably SHOULD stay out of war in the Stepstones. Daemon IS a giant chaos elemental and absolutely should never be let near the throne. Rhaenyra IS more like her uncle than her dad, and might be a similar chaos elemental if she gets the throne. When you remove Otto you now have to start asking, what does the new Hand want? What is his self-interest? What does Lyonel Strong want? Most viewers seem to love the dude. He gives great advice and never seems to be pushing his self interest. So what is his self-interest? Both his sons are at court. One of his sons was planting poison seeds in the Queen's ear. Did his dad tell him to do that? Did he do it on his own? The fact that we have no clue is what makes the Strongs so much more dangerous than Otto ever was.
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Sep 20, 2022 22:45
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sure okay posted:A minor part. Here's his real career making moment Why did you do this. I just got over the fact that he wears those goddam busted-rear end NB sneakers for the rest of the movie. He is literally doing the “look at my amazing new body, now I can dress awesome” montage scene and still wears those loving sneakers for the rest of the movie. He loving dies wearing them.. It’s an absolute bizarre character choice.
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Sep 20, 2022 23:19
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Wait, that scene isn't scored to Preston Jacobs' royalty-free intro music?
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Sep 20, 2022 23:43
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Anonymous Zebra posted:
See this is the interesting part, right, because from their brief discussion about Alicent's dress, it looks like Hawrin and Larys have a good relationship. And then all Lyonel has to do is nod to get Harwin to rescue Rhaenyra. So at least on the surface the Strongs are a mutually supportive family, so why does it look like Larys is freelancing?
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Sep 20, 2022 23:53
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sure okay posted:A minor part. Here's his real career making moment What’s the context for this for someone who’s never watched a doctor who?
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Sep 20, 2022 23:57
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At this point I'm just assuming that a young, waifish, platinum haired gal broke the big guy's heart and he just can't stop telling stories about how they're obvious tyrants who nonetheless blind everybody around them.
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Sep 20, 2022 23:58
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Yeah, she already has makings of a pretty dangerous monarch. Her foreign policy views (what little we know of them) seem to be aggressive and domineering. She's all in on royal absolutism, and is disdainful of politicking/internal diplomacy. yeah agreed, there's already a bunch of red flags. So far it seems like Alicent would be the better choice but that just might be because we haven't seen a ton of her
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Sep 21, 2022 00:12
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Vegetable posted:Goofy rear end storytelling to have a dude narrating the significance of green in the moment though. Would be better if they breadcrumbed it by having that significance mentioned earlier in the episode. Then it’d be a real mic-drop oh-poo poo moment. The fact that other people picked up on it was the most important part of the scene though.
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Sep 21, 2022 00:38
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I feel like I have no idea what they're going for at this point with Viserys's health. Consumption? Greyscale?
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Sep 21, 2022 00:40
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TOOT BOOT posted:I feel like I have no idea what they're going for at this point with Viserys's health. Consumption? Greyscale? That gif of Mr. Burns with all the diseases
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Sep 21, 2022 00:45
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TOOT BOOT posted:I feel like I have no idea what they're going for at this point with Viserys's health. Consumption? Greyscale? Sepsis from constantly being cut by rusted old swords.
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Sep 21, 2022 00:51
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i think its the sepsis thing but i dont think it matters. people would just get poo poo and die "back then", in this fantasy time. he got sick and they leeched him for 20 years. Joseph Lister Beesbury has yet to make his fantastical discovery into the wonders of antiseptics.
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Sep 21, 2022 00:51
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The last Beesbury got his rear end kicked and killed by King Jaeherys, they’re avoiding Kings Landing for the time being.
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Sep 21, 2022 00:54
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Boris Galerkin posted:What’s the context for this for someone who’s never watched a doctor who? Hes just Morbin' around there, not Dr. Who.
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Sep 21, 2022 01:17
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Morrow posted:The irony is that Otto is manipulating the king for his own advantage, but in this particular instance that got him banished he was being completely honest and acting in the realms best interests. He was wrong though. He made a huge overreach in taking an assumption as fact. She *would* have hosed Daemon, but it explicitly didn't happen.
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Sep 21, 2022 01:18
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Khal Drogo basically died of a booboo too.
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Sep 21, 2022 01:31
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Targs are also immune to a lot of things allegedly so I reckon he's probably getting intentionally sabotaged in some way. Also that line about treating his arm and the guy was like well it's fine don't worry about it let's just keep doing the same thing which resulted in his arm rotting off seemsreally suspicious
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Sep 21, 2022 01:31
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