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I volunteer to run infowars during these proceedings.
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Sep 21, 2022 04:07
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Discendo Vox posted:I volunteer to run infowars during these proceedings. I second this motion. All in favour say aye.
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Sep 21, 2022 04:20
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does Alex Jones still have a website? how can kiwi get nuked but Jones isnt? not to mention visa, mastercard and other notable transaction processors going " yea h no gently caress you dude."
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Sep 21, 2022 04:23
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PhazonLink posted:does Alex Jones still have a website? Well, to pick a completely random reason, one generated ~$165 million dollars of revenue in the past three years, and the other one Did Not.
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Sep 21, 2022 04:39
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PhazonLink posted:does Alex Jones still have a website? Can verify https://www.infowars.com/ still seems to be working. And yeah sites just as awful as you would imagine. Screenshotted for people who are interested but obviously don't want to visit that trash pit: 
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Sep 21, 2022 04:43
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dr_rat posted:I second this motion. Honestly not sure I hate Alex Jones enough to agree to this
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Sep 21, 2022 04:50
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Jones is among the most deserving to be blown out of the water by goon sabotage/incompetence.
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Sep 21, 2022 06:19
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Infowars has periodically run into trouble with FDA over claims on their dietary supplements (which, again, are the profit engine that fuels a large portion of the worst fringe in the US), but it's not on the same level as KF in terms of direct organization of other criminal activity. A good activism campaign might theoretically get such a site shut down, but it'd be harder to motivate the population necessary, and it's just one of a constellation of major alt-med conspiracy companies. This poo poo's why I keep talking up increased dietary supplement regulation.
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Sep 21, 2022 06:33
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Sure; last month the Washington Post published this entitled, Trump is rushing to hire seasoned lawyers — but he keeps hearing ‘No’. Had to pay 3 million up front EDIT: LOL https://twitter.com/isaacstanbecker/status/1572391985608261632 Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 09:35
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Discendo Vox posted:Infowars has periodically run into trouble with FDA over claims on their dietary supplements (which, again, are the profit engine that fuels a large portion of the worst fringe in the US), but it's not on the same level as KF in terms of direct organization of other criminal activity. A good activism campaign might theoretically get such a site shut down, but it'd be harder to motivate the population necessary, and it's just one of a constellation of major alt-med conspiracy companies. yeah, I'd rather not have the government poking around in my medicine cabinet. The supplement industry isn't perfect but it's better than the alternative as you've proposed it. I don't really wanna have to apply for a license to buy and store whey protein.
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Sep 21, 2022 10:38
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:yeah, I'd rather not have the government poking around in my medicine cabinet. The supplement industry isn't perfect but it's better than the alternative as you've proposed it. I don't really wanna have to apply for a license to buy and store whey protein. Regulating the selling of dietary supplements doesn't mean you would need to "apply for a license to buy and store whey protein" at all, what a weird strawman. Supplements are regulated in the EU in what health claims they can make (they require a scientific basis), there's more than enough international precedence for useful regulation.
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Sep 21, 2022 11:40
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:yeah, I'd rather not have the government poking around in my medicine cabinet. The supplement industry isn't perfect but it's better than the alternative as you've proposed it. I don't really wanna have to apply for a license to buy and store whey protein. Supplements aren't medicines...do you think the government doesn't regulate drugs? Dietary supplements are a subclass of food that were created out of whole cloth in the 90s to give a fig leaf of nominal regulation to alternative medicine products, while making it functionally impossible for the government to enforce those regulations. The entire category is defined by being able to make euphemistic benefit claims ("structure function claims") while not having to prove they're efficacious (as, indeed, 99.9% of them aren't), and satisfying greatly reduced safety standards (that aren't well-enforced or checked). It's a huge boon for the alt-med scene and a whole bunch of the shittiest VC people in the country (including a lot of big pharma and a whole shadowy Republican industry nexus out of Utah), and more than anything it's a structural incentive to sell conspiracy theories and bullshit. There's a reason Rogan, the alt-right, Trump, and Alex Jones all have or had a major investment in dietary supplements. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 12:01
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Defund the FDA is certainly a take
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Sep 21, 2022 12:03
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Bring back literal snake oil Fortified with radium
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Sep 21, 2022 12:04
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Data Graham posted:Bring back literal snake oil Yeah, where's my laudanum?
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Sep 21, 2022 12:19
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Data Graham posted:Bring back literal snake oil  Remember what they took from you or whatever
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Sep 21, 2022 12:45
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Why are you keeping whey protein in your medicine cabinet anyway
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Sep 21, 2022 13:09
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WRT to both cases, yes they make a mockery of US the legal system. However, in Alex Jones's case the plaintiffs and their lawyers were quite happy with the amounts awarded despite Jones continuing to disparage them on his show and continuing incite harassment. There is definitely evidence for more sanctions, more successful lawsuits but that would require more time, more resources and even more of being a target. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The supplement industry is horrible because they lie about ingredients (content and what ingredients may/may not do), their products may contain serious poisons and exploitation (some rely exclusively on drug addicts or people with serious illnesses but also propaganda). They need to be regulated but I don't necessarily trust the FDA to not go ham and start recommending scheduling for certain things that most definitely are drugs but also don't cause much social or physical harm, as they have done in the recent past. Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 13:17
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Cranappleberry posted:WRT to both cases, yes they make a mockery of US the legal system. I don't think Jones is happy with this https://mobile.twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1572384954499362822
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Sep 21, 2022 13:25
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Charlz Guybon posted:I don't think Jones is happy with this Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was being specific to the first case, which finished recently. Jones did get fined quite a bit, as people pointed out, but throughout the case and after he went on his show and continued to slander the plaintiffs and the judge and implied he was going to harass the plaintiffs himself. The fact that he can continue to do that, despite having had to pay restitution, that he can continue to hock a bunch of crap to enrich himself for his lies, even in the middle of what should be a disaster is pretty mocking imo.
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Sep 21, 2022 13:36
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Data Graham posted:Bring back literal snake oil https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/snake-oil-salesmen-knew-something/ Fun fact: Literal snake oil - from Chinese water snakes - is genuinely helpful for treating inflammation and joint pain, due to its high content of omega-3 acids. Its popularity was most likely spread by Chinese migrant workers, who would rub it on their joints after a hard days work. The problem with "snake-oil salesmen" is that they sold fake snake oil. Not only does oil from western snakes contain significantly less omega-3 acid, but the salesman usually wouldn't even bother to catch any snakes and just sold random oils with new labels.
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Sep 21, 2022 13:41
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Charlz Guybon posted:I don't think Jones is happy with this so a different law news report characterized this differently. as a note, subchapter V debtors (small business debtors) always have a trustee, but with a much more limited role. quote:In denying the retention applications, Judge Lopez said the debtor still had able counsel in the case, but he also expanded the role of the Subchapter V trustee to include an investigation of Free Speech Systems' secured debt, which is held by another entity affiliated with Jones. it is not super clear to me exactly what the bankruptcy judge did with regard to the trustee and i'm waiting on some bankruptcy-specific news sources to write it up (since they'd probably properly capture the nuance of what happened)
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Sep 21, 2022 13:42
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I don't read up on corporate trustee cases as much as I should, how does the trustee running Infowars work? I guess they still have (i know Infowars isn't publicly traded but I think the term still applies) a fiduciary duty to Jones or the business or whatever? Like the trustee can't decide to stop selling his various scams and cancel the show right? It'd be funny if they did. I'm just not sure how previous businesses put into trusteeship worked.
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Sep 21, 2022 13:42
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Cranappleberry posted:The supplement industry is horrible because they lie about ingredients (content and what ingredients may/may not do), their products may contain serious poisons and exploitation (some rely exclusively on drug addicts or people with serious illnesses but also propaganda). They need to be regulated but I don't necessarily trust the FDA to not go ham and start recommending scheduling for certain things that most definitely are drugs but also don't cause much social or physical harm, as they have done in the recent past. The FDA already has authority over dietary supplements, the specifics of how the category is regulated and defined is the problem, such as the absence of a premarket registration requirement and a loophole on “new dietary ingredients” that lets industry sell new active ingredients based on what’s essentially fraudulent and undocumented safety research. There is no basis to assume the FDA is going to “go ham” on them. Nonprescription drug status exists, and it’s what the FDA had originally been trying to apply to alt-med when the concept of dietary supplements was cooked up to stop them.
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Sep 21, 2022 13:51
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Discendo Vox posted:The FDA already has authority over dietary supplements, the specifics of how the category is regulated and defined is the problem, such as the absence of a premarket registration requirement and a loophole on “new dietary ingredients” that lets industry sell new active ingredients based on what’s essentially fraudulent and undocumented safety research. There is no basis to assume the FDA is going to “go ham” on them. Nonprescription drug status exists, and it’s what the FDA had originally been trying to apply to alt-med when the concept of dietary supplements was cooked up to stop them. Right. Supplements were defined as a legal loophole in large part due to the fact that the companies making and selling them form a special interest group that (at least originally) donated heavily to republicans who helped secure the carve out. Hence the FDA lacks the authority they would need to regulate them, which is a rehash of what I stated. Part of the basis I am talking about is the FDA recommending drugs like kratom and others be scheduled based on case studies rather than studies of widespread harm. No doubt you would say they are being overly-cautious but the FDA uses language directly comparing kratom to morphine, which is huge overstatement. For those unaware, kratom contains small amounts of 2, possibly 3, strongly-binding opioids and thus is incredibly addictive. However, the potential for it's physical and social harm on it's own are not anywhere near the level of fentanyl or other powerful opioids. Kratom has been implicated in many deaths but orders of magnitude lower than heroin, oxycodone, fentanyl and etc. and almost always in combination with other drugs. edit: made a correction about kratom comparison to morphine rather than fentanyl Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 13:59
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projecthalaxy posted:I don't read up on corporate trustee cases as much as I should, how does the trustee running Infowars work? I guess they still have (i know Infowars isn't publicly traded but I think the term still applies) a fiduciary duty to Jones or the business or whatever? Like the trustee can't decide to stop selling his various scams and cancel the show right? It'd be funny if they did. I'm just not sure how previous businesses put into trusteeship worked. The trustee is absolutely going to keep the money flowing as best as they can. This isn't really for Jones' sake, but for the sake of the people Jones owes money to or may soon owe money soon. A bankruptcy case is, for the most part, a case of a company claiming they can't pay all their debts. Regardless of whether the bankruptcy goes through in the end, it's the job of the trustee to maintain the normal course of business so that there will be more money available for whoever the person/company owes money to. This also plays into what Cranappleberry said about Jones still being on the air. The lawsuits against him weren't to get him off the air, they were about getting him to stop pushing one particular conspiracy theory, and about using the money he made pushing that theory to compensate the people who were victimized by that theory. The more he goes up there and blathers about poo poo, the more he might end up paying to the plaintiffs - and the money he makes from blathering about poo poo will be what funds that payout.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:19
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Cranappleberry posted:Right. Supplements were defined as a legal loophole in large part due to the fact that the companies making and selling them form a special interest group that (at least originally) donated heavily to republicans who helped secure the carve out. Hence the FDA lacks the authority they would need to regulate them, which is a rehash of what I stated. Again, FDA's authority to make scheduling recommendations is not related to dietary supplement regulation authority; kratom's already not a legal dietary supplement ingredient, the agency's already rejected like 5 new dietary ingredient submissions. I do not understand why you are trying to divert to this, and I'm not going to debate the concept of scheduling kratom here. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 14:22
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:yeah, I'd rather not have the government poking around in my medicine cabinet. Yeah, and keep socialism out of my Medicare
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Sep 21, 2022 14:29
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Dumb question, but is it really true the president can declassify any documents he wants? So if the president decided to declassify a document that had the names of every spy currently in Russia there's nothing anyone could do about it? Like even if it would be incredibly damaging to US national security and literally get people killed? Because Trump is saying he declassified all the documents he kept in his closet and a few of those were the most highly classified types of documents.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:35
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:yeah, I'd rather not have the government poking around in my medicine cabinet.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:39
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Charliegrs posted:Dumb question, but is it really true the president can declassify any documents he wants? So if the president decided to declassify a document that had the names of every spy currently in Russia there's nothing anyone could do about it? Like even if it would be incredibly damaging to US national security and literally get people killed? Because Trump is saying he declassified all the documents he kept in his closet and a few of those were the most highly classified types of documents. IANAL but I believe the answer is yes, the President can declassify whatever. However, there's a process for doing so. You don't just say "I totally declassified all these!" there's paperwork involved.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:39
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Charliegrs posted:Dumb question, but is it really true the president can declassify any documents he wants? So if the president decided to declassify a document that had the names of every spy currently in Russia there's nothing anyone could do about it? Like even if it would be incredibly damaging to US national security and literally get people killed? Because Trump is saying he declassified all the documents he kept in his closet and a few of those were the most highly classified types of documents. With exceptions not pertinent here (there are a few categories of information, most prominent that related to nuclear programs, that are classified by statute), yes. Classification of information is considered part of the national security power, which flows from the President as Commander-in-Chief. The checks are political (elections, impeachment) rather than structural. And if you think this is stupid, and post-facto, and doesn't solve for Donnie boy, you'd be right. Far too much of the US system absolutely requires a President actually committed to the good of the country.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:40
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Charliegrs posted:Dumb question, but is it really true the president can declassify any documents he wants? So if the president decided to declassify a document that had the names of every spy currently in Russia there's nothing anyone could do about it? Like even if it would be incredibly damaging to US national security and literally get people killed? Because Trump is saying he declassified all the documents he kept in his closet and a few of those were the most highly classified types of documents. Most things, yes. But, they have to follow an actual specific procedure. They can't just "declare" things pre-emptively declassified. Also, some information, like nuclear secrets, tax information, and a few other narrow categories can't be made public or declassified by law. Even by the President.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:40
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JohnCompany posted:With exceptions not pertinent here (there are a few categories of information, most prominent that related to nuclear programs, that are classified by statute), yes. Classification of information is considered part of the national security power, which flows from the President as Commander-in-Chief. The checks are political (elections, impeachment) rather than structural. And to avoid this, the DoJ's warrant application was all statutes that didn't have classification as a requirement.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:41
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Charliegrs posted:Dumb question, but is it really true the president can declassify any documents he wants? So if the president decided to declassify a document that had the names of every spy currently in Russia there's nothing anyone could do about it? Like even if it would be incredibly damaging to US national security and literally get people killed? Because Trump is saying he declassified all the documents he kept in his closet and a few of those were the most highly classified types of documents. He cannot. At the very least, nuclear secrets are classified by an act of Congress that he can't circumvent.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:42
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It's pretty much the same as how the president can pardon anyone he wants, but he can't just wave his hand and pardon people with just a thought. He has to fill out paperwork. If he wakes up tomorrow and says they have to empty the prisons because he secretly pardoned everyone in the US on his final day in office, no one's gonna buy that. Except the declassification power is actually weaker than that, because it's controlled and limited by legislation to some degree.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:46
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Inclined to agree with Joementum's take here, despite being well aware it's overstated as engagement bait while he preps for his new Semafor gig: https://mobile.twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1572606560215666690
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Sep 21, 2022 16:29
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Paracaidas posted:Inclined to agree with Joementum's take here, despite being well aware it's overstated as engagement bait while he preps for his new Semafor gig: I think the most relevant thing coming from that poll is going to be Trump going for DeSantis's knees as soon as possible.
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Sep 21, 2022 16:34
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https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1572611664339677186 Edit: More information about the penalties: https://twitter.com/stevenportnoy/status/1572616015464353794 SimonChris fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 16:57
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How can he possibly defend against it? Testify in court it was the IRS he lied to? Claim there’s no law against declaring two different values?
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Sep 21, 2022 17:02
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