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fart simpson posted:if anyone needs to get caught up here’s a quick rundown I'd be surprised if joe rogan knows how all the pieces move in chess
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Sep 21, 2022 13:37
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eric hansen is kind of upset that chessbrah isn't getting credit for the anal bead joke and it's funny
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Sep 21, 2022 14:26
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Magnus's latest interview on Hans/cheating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c50PJmOj2-U #TeamChaos
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Sep 21, 2022 21:04
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Haha, Magnus did an interview where he dodged every question and made a bunch of vague insinuations. Then he posted it on his YouTube account under the title "Magnus Carlsen on Hans Niemann (FULL INTERVIEW)." What does he think he's accomplishing with any of this that wouldn't be accomplished better by just waiting until he actually has something to say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c50PJmOj2-U
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Sep 21, 2022 21:06
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He also revealed that Hans' coach was Maxim Dlugy, who's also been banned for cheating online.
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Sep 21, 2022 21:09
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https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-shoe-aistant--ivanov-forfeits-at-blagoevgrad-051013 Maxim explains how to cheat with a tiny shoe computer in 2013: quote:If I had this gadget I would be killing people left and right, and nobody would know. This is the real danger, because if a 2600 player has this thing, he knows exactly how to behave, he knows exactly when to think, and he doesn’t to use it more than four times during a game. That’s plenty to destroy anyone. At the critical junction you switch it on and find out which way do I go: oh, this little nuance I didn’t see, okay, fine, boom, goodbye! That’s it.
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Sep 21, 2022 21:18
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TheRat posted:He also revealed that Hans' coach was Maxim Dlugy, who's also been banned for cheating online. "What was the reason you withdrew from that game?" "Unfortunately I cannot particularly speak on that but people can draw their own conclusion & they certainly have. I have to say I am very impressed by Niemann's play & I think his mentor Maxim Dlugy must have been doing a great job" no notes edit: okay one note that this video was posted on Magnus' own channel, with this thumbnail  I mean come on man. Just say it. WorldIndustries fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 21:19
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I posted that Levon Aronian interview the other day and was watching Hikaru comment on it (praise the internet where you can find videos on other videos!) and something that I didn't really catch on to is that Hikaru was saying that Levon looked / sounded quite upset about the Hans Nieman internet cheating topic in the video - Hikaru thought it was a huge shift in tone from interviews that Aronian did on the topic in the previous week and figured that he must have been let in on whatever is bugging Magnus and he didn't much like it either. I didn't notice that Aronian looked or sounded angry when I watched the interview but obviously I don't know the guy like Hikaru does. Well, at the end of that interview it was pointed out that he himself was playing Nieman the next day and that game has now attracted attention for what is viewed as very suspicious novelty moves that were played almost instantly in the game by Hans from out of prep leading to a very quick collapse in Aronian's position and a win for Hans. After that day's games concluded Aronian was in another interview and with a huge poo poo eating grin he congratulated Hans on playing "some very strange moves" that "made him lose his concentration" and subsequently the game. So I don't know guys.. As Hikaru pointed out in his video Levon has always had a reputation as the most measured / classy of all the super grandmasters, in my view I would say probably the most "normal" person you'll find playing high level chess. If he's joining the anti Hans brigade that's definitely food for thought lol **Still doesn't justify Magnus being a big whiny baby and ruining tournaments IMO. Be a man like Aronian, take your loss to the cheater and then be snarky in the interview if you absolutely must lol.. ***Here's the video I'm referencing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKXbBrm1tJs with Hikaru's reaction to the initial Levon interview from the start, the analysis of the "strange" game starting around 5:30 in, and Hikaru's reaction to the subsequent post-loss Levon interview starting at around 17:00 Starsfan fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 21:29
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TheRat posted:He also revealed that Hans' coach was Maxim Dlugy, who's also been banned for cheating online. I can't find any confirmation that Maxim was actually banned for cheating online
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Sep 21, 2022 21:31
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I feel like the magnus interview was a lot of words that amounted to "my lawyer has advised me not to comment"
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Sep 21, 2022 21:32
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Chromatics posted:I can't find any confirmation that Maxim was actually banned for cheating online From what I can tell he had several titled tuesdays in a row where ~40% of his moves were top engine, and then suddenly a TT with ~70% during which he suddenly disconnected and then never came back or used that account again, and then when asked about it chess.com gave a boiler plate answer about not disclosing information about bans/cheaters without saying that they banned him or confirming anything.
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Sep 21, 2022 21:36
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Chromatics posted:I can't find any confirmation that Maxim was actually banned for cheating online My internet search for "maxim cheat" has provided many unrelated answers.
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Sep 21, 2022 21:40
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cheetah7071 posted:I feel like the magnus interview was a lot of words that amounted to "my lawyer has advised me not to comment" that's a smokescreen though, he's saying "yes I resigned the match, but I'm very impressed with Hans' play and how well his coach Maxim prepared him" which anyone with a brain would read as an accusation
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Sep 21, 2022 21:51
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Wrongfully accused of cheating and banned from online competition, two youth chess prodigies team up to teach the world a lesson about what real cheating looks like. Can Hans dethrone the world champion and take revenge on an unjust system? Staring Finn Wolfhard, 113 minutes
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Sep 21, 2022 22:06
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Regarding people who just want Magnus to come out and say things clearly, here's a relevant video from RSA about Language as a Window into Human Nature which I think is very relevant and topical to boot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-son3EJTrU Also, obviously https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE
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Sep 21, 2022 22:10
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FMD I am sick to death of all this poo poo. And it's not going to stop anytime soon.
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Sep 21, 2022 22:47
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V for Vegas posted:FMD I am sick to death of all this poo poo. And it's not going to stop anytime soon. Yes, it's tiring and taints the whole sport.
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Sep 21, 2022 22:49
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It taints the professional scene, which I will never be a part of so I really dont care. Dont need to worry about cheaters when you have moron Elo 
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Sep 21, 2022 23:35
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Control Volume posted:It taints the professional scene, which I will never be a part of so I really dont care. Dont need to worry about cheaters when you have moron Elo many people cheat in moron elo
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Sep 21, 2022 23:51
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Spokes posted:many people cheat in moron elo play bullet so they can't
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Sep 22, 2022 00:28
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Spokes posted:many people cheat in moron elo Im too stupid to notice
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Sep 22, 2022 00:41
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I kinda hope Magnus' statement after the tournament will be to reveal that he has been cheating through the tournament.
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Sep 22, 2022 00:44
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Starsfan posted:I posted that Levon Aronian interview the other day and was watching Hikaru comment on it (praise the internet where you can find videos on other videos!) and something that I didn't really catch on to is that Hikaru was saying that Levon looked / sounded quite upset about the Hans Nieman internet cheating topic in the video - Hikaru thought it was a huge shift in tone from interviews that Aronian did on the topic in the previous week and figured that he must have been let in on whatever is bugging Magnus and he didn't much like it either. I didn't notice that Aronian looked or sounded angry when I watched the interview but obviously I don't know the guy like Hikaru does. Imagine putting stock in Hikaru's analysis of the situation when he was the one to fan the flames in the first place. Also if Hans is cheating and he found a way to continue cheating with all this attention he deserves to win
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Sep 22, 2022 01:13
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archduke.iago posted:Imagine putting stock in Hikaru's analysis of the situation when he was the one to fan the flames in the first place. I'm sorry but could you give an example of any anti-cheating mechanism happening at the event right now?
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Sep 22, 2022 01:18
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Salt Fish posted:I'm sorry but could you give an example of any anti-cheating mechanism happening at the event right now? https://chess24.com/tour/regulations/
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Sep 22, 2022 01:24
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am i missing something here or is the only anti-cheating mechanism "you can't leave your web camera's view during the game"?
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Sep 22, 2022 01:39
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AARD VARKMAN posted:am i missing something here or is the only anti-cheating mechanism "you can't leave your web camera's view during the game"? you're missing the parts where the arbiter can see what programs players have open and inspects the player's room/body on camera
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Sep 22, 2022 02:03
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archduke.iago posted:you're missing the parts where the arbiter can see what programs players have open and inspects the player's room/body on camera does the arbiter know if your coach is standing there right out of frame writing moves on a whiteboard or something
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Sep 22, 2022 02:04
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archduke.iago posted:you're missing the parts where the arbiter can see what programs players have open and inspects the player's room/body on camera Lol
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Sep 22, 2022 02:07
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how does the arbiter handle the edge case of someone who owns 2 computers, or both a computer and an iphone
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Sep 22, 2022 02:15
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fart simpson posted:how does the arbiter handle the edge case of someone who owns 2 computers, or both a computer and an iphone well they busted Tigran L. Petrosian but only because he was constantly looking down at the tablet that was sitting on the desk in front of him in a very conspicuous manner **supposedly the arbiters now have a more or less 365 degree view of the room through two or more cameras to try and capture all possible angles where somebody could be abusing a 2nd device. Starsfan fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Sep 22, 2022 |
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Sep 22, 2022 02:20
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From the linked rulebook https://handbook.fide.com/files/handbook/OnlineChessRegulations.pdf fart simpson posted:does the arbiter know if your coach is standing there right out of frame writing moves on a whiteboard or something 10.4 The arbiter shall inspect the playing area as appropriate before the start of a game. 13.1 When played under video supervision, a competition shall provide a Video Conferencing System (VCS) for use by the players and arbiters. The system shall have the following features: 13.1.1 A full view of the player displaying at least their face, and if required, their playing area; 14.3 A player’s microphone must always transmit any sounds audible near the player to the Arbiter. fart simpson posted:how does the arbiter handle the edge case of someone who owns 2 computers, or both a computer and an iphone 9.6 During play the players are forbidden from using any electronic device, notes, sources of information or advice, or to analyse any game on another chessboard 9.8.1 During a game, a player is forbidden from having in the playing venue any electronic device which is not specifically approved by the arbiter. However, the regulations of an event may allow such devices to be stored very near to the playing area only as a help to provide backup internet.
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Sep 22, 2022 02:39
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the clause about electronic devices allowed by the arbiter is a kind of funny loophole because a while back a blind player cheated by claiming his blutooth audio device was just reading back the moves of the game, when in fact it was connected to the internet and he was being fed moves by a collaborator
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Sep 22, 2022 02:42
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totalnewbie posted:You know, Nieman is clearly a very strong player. I don't think anyone doubts that. But when it comes to cheating, you don't necessarily even need for the computer to tell you what to do; just the fact that SOMETHING is there is often times a big enough hint. Look at puzzle positions - especially in the more difficult puzzles, it's sometimes only because it's a puzzle that the answer gets found, whereas you might play a much more natural move OTB. You could get a signal that there's a big advantage you could gain on the next move, or that it's a dangerous position where maybe natural moves are traps, or that the opponent just blundered, etc. TheRat posted:Magnus did a podcast about a year ago in Norwegian where he said that if he had 1 or 2 times during a game where a signal told him that his position was critical in some way he would practically never lose. He wouldn't need to know the moves, just that there was a move. earlier, i dismissed the possibility that Hans used a computer in his game against Magnus, because he didn't play very accurately. But, thinking about using a shoe computer to get cues like this makes me re-evaluate, because he wouldn't show inhuman accuracy if he was just getting the evaluation from the computer and not the moves. I thought they were using radios to sniff out the RFI from any shoe computers, but maybe they only started doing that after Magnus pulled out? I wonder if anyone thought to put a radio antenna under each chess table, because it seems like it would be incredibly easy to hear someone keying in moves at that range. When I leave my guitar amp on, I can hear all kinds of noises coming from the computer. Using the touch pad or typing on the keyboard make distinctive sounds and the RFI gets especially loud when Stockfish is grinding the CPU. The phone isn't as loud, but you can certainly hear it when the computer's off. Hell, I would volunteer to walk around pointing a radio at players' shoes if it means I could bust a cheater 
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Sep 22, 2022 02:58
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AnacondaHL posted:From the linked rulebook honestly, i don't think i would be satisfied with these measures, if i was playing against a known cheater
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Sep 22, 2022 03:04
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Helianthus Annuus posted:earlier, i dismissed the possibility that Hans used a computer in his game against Magnus, because he didn't play very accurately. But, thinking about using a shoe computer to get cues like this makes me re-evaluate, because he wouldn't show inhuman accuracy if he was just getting the evaluation from the computer and not the moves. I thought they were using radios to sniff out the RFI from any shoe computers, but maybe they only started doing that after Magnus pulled out? One of the interesting claims during this has been that if tournament organizers spent enough money they could eliminate cheating by monitoring the air for signals. I don't believe that this is possible - first because the total EM spectrum is absolutely gigantic, and second because you don't have to use any particular protocol. Imagine a device that could tell you every signal happening in the air at any given time. It would be instantly overwhelmed by AM, FM, satellite broadcasts, TV broadcasts, wifi communication from adjacent buildings, cellphone communications, microwave radiation, ultrasonic sounds from all types of mechanical motors, HVAC, HAM band radio, nautical/aeronautical navigation beacons, etc etc It's completely impossible. All you have to do is sit in a car outside the venue and broadcast on an unused AM band and a computer the size of a stick of gum could listen and vibrate with any kind of message. Good luck catching it with a metal detector, they aren't even close to sensitive enough, even with the chip on the outside of your body. Look at this FM receiver. This one is the size of your thumbnail:  Power it with a cr2032 battery and connect it to a vibrating motor instead of a speaker. Here is one from a cellphone: 
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Sep 22, 2022 03:20
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Salt Fish posted:One of the interesting claims during this has been that if tournament organizers spent enough money they could eliminate cheating by monitoring the air for signals. I don't believe that this is possible - first because the total EM spectrum is absolutely gigantic, and second because you don't have to use any particular protocol. Imagine a device that could tell you every signal happening in the air at any given time. It would be instantly overwhelmed by AM, FM, satellite broadcasts, TV broadcasts, wifi communication from adjacent buildings, cellphone communications, microwave radiation, ultrasonic sounds from all types of mechanical motors, HVAC, HAM band radio, nautical/aeronautical navigation beacons, etc etc It's completely impossible. Using a simple receiver is defeated by the 15 minute broadcasting delay, right? But maybe a spectator in the room could still have a smartphone and a garage door opener? I agree that a simple receiver would be hard to detect. But I'm not talking about monitoring the whole RF spectrum to intercept clandestine signals, I'm talking about monitoring noise emissions below 20 kilohertz to detect electronics hidden on the players. Any computer or phone will produce RF noise, and you certainly can't run stockfish without producing an emission that's detectable by an antenna under the table. Just for fun, I thought i would record what I'm talking about : https://vocaroo.com/1obVpeq4RO2n At about 5s my phone's screen turns on and I start trying to navigate my touchscreen to the lichess app. At about 9s, i turn on stockfish in infinite analysis mode and let it run until 20s, when i start trying to turn the engine off. You can hear the RF emissions cool off shortly after that. EDIT: I used a Soma Ether to record that. I was having fun listening to noise, so i decided to position my electric guitar very close to the ol' gaming PC and fire up stockfish to see how it sounds. I turn on the engine at 6s and you can hear the noises that happen as I click thru the moves of the game https://vocaroo.com/1oxOx7m0gxmb Helianthus Annuus fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Sep 22, 2022 |
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Sep 22, 2022 04:02
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Helianthus Annuus posted:Using a simple receiver is defeated by the 15 minute broadcasting delay, right? But maybe a spectator in the room could still have a smartphone and a garage door opener? I agree that a simple receiver would be hard to detect. Yeah the delay I think goes a long way towards beating a variety of different types of cheating. at least I think it works fairly well for televised poker tournaments.. Then you're down to cheating in house by various methods which is obviously much easier for the arbiters to detect. There was some scuttlebutt earlier about Hans supposedly performing much better in tournaments where spectators can view the games in real time vs. tournaments where spectators can not view the games in real time, but I don't think anyone in the chess world found it that compelling.. I do wonder though if you ran some computer programs that compiled results for grandmaster play sorted into whether outside help could view the games as they were happening or not if you would find any interesting outliers.. could be a good way to go.
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Sep 22, 2022 04:24
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Stick 'em in a Faraday Cage
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Sep 22, 2022 04:51
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i think they should have to play in a ct scanner the whole time
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Sep 22, 2022 05:01
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