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Are there any reasonable ways of getting out of Forcecage? 6 member party, level 7, and the pirate warlock were fighting tossed a forcecage at our cleric, while having us fight a water elemental, and several drowned assassins, so we need him back.
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Sep 22, 2022 15:53
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VaultAggie posted:Are there any reasonable ways of getting out of Forcecage? 6 member party, level 7, and the pirate warlock were fighting tossed a forcecage at our cleric, while having us fight a water elemental, and several drowned assassins, so we need him back. tell your dm to knock it off. forcecage should never have been printed because if you do not have the exact answer to force cage as a spell prepared you basically just get put in an inescapable prison... thats what the spell does lol. if you have gaseous form or some sort of teleport move you can get out(but you might use all your spell slots trying to leave) E: gaseous form is an edge case by the way because it prevents non magical escape(so turning into a mouse fails) but you can argue that you are using a spell to turn into gas as to magically escape. this is a good argument to make as the alternatives are to repeatedly fail to teleport until after 5 turns you beat the check, or to sit in time out for a few hours pog boyfriend fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Sep 22, 2022 |
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Sep 22, 2022 15:57
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Hmmn. I recall using and having force cage used on my in Dark Sun... it's weirdly ambiguous that it doesn't say if the cage can or can't be broken? I thiiiink my GM said it was as though as steel? Also weird that it says matter can't pass through the box but doesn't mention suffocation.
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Sep 22, 2022 16:33
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Tosk posted:I enjoy a lot of posts at the Alexandrian. Relevant to this topic: I found this to be the most practical Angry GM example for running interesting wilderness travel: https://theangrygm.com/how-to-wilderness-right/
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Sep 22, 2022 16:36
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We're in year two of strixhaven (~level 5) party and we're on our way back to a dungeon that had a portal to new phyrexia to make anti magic weapons from the portal when we ran into some blood cultist on the road. A single main dude and some hanger ons were fine but then a mage hunter/slayer showed up and if that wasn't enough just as it seemed like we barely managed to regain the initiative (heh) another cultist showed up with a crowd of bandits which was basically the final nail. So in the opening I got hit by a blood knife, while I was deciding whether to shield or not one of the party members was like just take it" and I did, wasn't expecting it to deal 24! Damage. Brought me instantly below half. The enemy spell casters could heal each round and spend hp to replenish spells lots, they used magic missile dealing guaranteed damage unless some of us could shield but that also dealt us damage because of the creature in the above spoiler. Our warlock who is normally great at DPs kept rolling low, even with advantage like (2, 3), which was unfortunate. So between me needing to spend turns healing myself, or our war wizard, and the big creature turning off summons/familiars, and our DPs not having good rolls the action economy swung hard against us. My steel defender managed to grapple the "big creature" and things started to look up but for some reason it got ignored when we pointed out that to escape the grapple it needed to use its full action not just one of its many attacks which it did at advantage each time, my steel defender was a hero for a good two whole rounds keeping it pinned and buying us time for us to finally exhaust the enemy teams resources so just when they were running and we might've had a chance to just deal with the creature. The enemy reinforcements arrived and we were already low on hp and resources, and they counterspelled our wizards fireball, so seeing we needed a desperate move, I tried to go after the enemy leader in hopes this would make them run but my attacks wiffed and then we all got downed one by one after that as the now freed creature (it freed itself last turn) could mop us up. The key mistake was me face tanking that opening hit but in fairness we never fought these blood cultist before and didn't know they would hit for so hard. I would've been able to be on the front line more easily. I think theres three things that idk about in retrospect: - the big ugly has a 10' radius anti magic field, I'm kinda confused how normal strixhaven parties deal with it, without a melee character like me (and I come with a buddy) I think just one would murder full caster parties. But anyways, the DM rules you could target people inside the field with spells and affect them, just not the creature itself (of spells 3rd level and lower). I think this took away what should have been an interesting puzzle aspect of the fight, where anyone in melee with the creature was safe from enemy spellcasters but at the cost of being I melee with a creature with three Friggin attacks!  but part of what made our action economy from bad to abysmal was things like me being targeted by magic missile even when I was inside the field. So I can't shield but I can still be targeted. =/- the aforementioned grapple issue, I dunno why the DM decided now it could use all of its attacks to try to break the grapple, the fact it attacked at disadvantage was the only thing saving us,and it being able to do that took off the table the idea of leaving my steel defender to pin it while letting us potentially escape. -the DM claims he gave us opportunities to escape but I think there was only briefly one clear moment and mainly in hindsight when the creature was pinned and the enemies were beginning to break. We could've ran then, and left my steel defender to try to pin it for as long as it can. But that moment where we could have run was also the moment the encounter looked winnable and clearly there was a lot of gear we could loot if we won.  The problem is up until now when we wiped previously we got revived by the faculty, and were told "it's very hard to die", I don't think the rest of my party was in the mindset that this encounter in particular when we barely left the school grounds could potentially be permadeath. So while I did bring up at the beginning of this session "hey we should think about running" I don't think it anyone seriously thought about it because we'll "we've died before". I think this was further complicated because I think last week the DM hinted the creature had a 120' burrow speed and basically strongly hinted running was *not* an option so I think there's a lot of mixed signals that was happening from one session to the next, this session it's move speed seemed to now be 60' which let our warlock make an attempt to misty step away to get some distance and run but she took the full d6 damage from casting a spell and died in the attempt.  So currently the choice before us is either roll new characters or form the B-team from the NPCs we've befriended to do a rescue mission. We went with the b team which is good, as we put a lot of weeks into the campaign so far and it'd hurt a lot to reroll at this point. Also it feels like a very strong narrative moment for our school friends to charge in and rescue us from our mistakes.  The team being formed is: rampart, mina, Greta, and caderus. A perfectly balanced team of *checks notes* wizards question mark?
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Sep 22, 2022 16:43
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Jack B Nimble posted:Hmmn. I recall using and having force cage used on my in Dark Sun... it's weirdly ambiguous that it doesn't say if the cage can or can't be broken? I thiiiink my GM said it was as though as steel? the spell is essentially made to be an inescapable prison unless you have specifically the counter to it or anti magic field. its a 7th level spell, and even if you have the counter it can still fail sometimes. GMs attributing hardness and HP to the cage is softening the blow of the spell, but it is just a very poorly designed spell because enemies that use this spell dont actually care about spell slots is the thing(enemies in combat exist to fight once and die)
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Sep 22, 2022 16:46
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Raenir Salazar posted:We're in year two of strixhaven (~level 5) party and we're on our way back to a dungeon that had a portal to new phyrexia to make anti magic weapons from the portal when we ran into some blood cultist on the road. A single main dude and some hanger ons were fine but then a mage hunter/slayer showed up and if that wasn't enough just as it seemed like we barely managed to regain the initiative (heh) another cultist showed up with a crowd of bandits which was basically the final nail. I didn't read the whole thing but it sounds like you all died because your random encounter had two layers of reinforcements for some reason
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Sep 22, 2022 17:09
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Yeah, that sounds very scripted for some random encounter. It also sounds like the DM made some poor rulings that made the encounter even more difficult than it should've been.
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Sep 22, 2022 17:11
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pog boyfriend posted:tell your dm to knock it off. forcecage should never have been printed because if you do not have the exact answer to force cage as a spell prepared you basically just get put in an inescapable prison... thats what the spell does lol. if you have gaseous form or some sort of teleport move you can get out(but you might use all your spell slots trying to leave) Gaseous form also only works if the caster made a cage instead of a box. Disintegrate should always work though, but depending on DM you might need to be able to see the (invisible) cage/box. Jack B Nimble posted:Also weird that it says matter can't pass through the box but doesn't mention suffocation. Eh it only lasts an hour, there's probably enough oxygen in there unless it's just packed full of people/creatures.
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Sep 22, 2022 17:15
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Zombie Dachshund posted:I would love some tips about how to make travel in 5e fun and meaningful. I’ve always found it to be kind of lame, especially as presented in the DMG (and I know I’m not alone in this!) Any recommendations, guides, or third-party materials that you can point me to? I've been working on my exploration system for a game I have coming up so I'm gonna cross post this from the DM advise thread. I have a bit more content since that post. I basically only run sandbox games so I can give you my approach. It involves randomly generated maps, lots of them! I run all of my games in the same world Maxxia Prime, the ancient capitol of the Planar Imperium. The Imperium has long since fallen, and no one even remembers space travel is possible. But there are of course lots of ruins from that advanced age to explore  I used Donjon to generate the map of my entire world:https://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/world/  This world map is pretty useless for adventuring, especially at low levels so I zoom into a single hex on this map and use a program called Hexographer to generate a single "cell" of my world that is gonna be the basis of most of the characters adventures. I like to make the world exceptionally huge, so players can do lots of epic stuff without interfering too much with my other campaigns  I am making a new campaign now so this is the hex map I generated, the South Glacier Lands:https://www.hexographer.com/  Hexographer labels every hex with a number and you can set it to randomly put icons everywhere on your map. I have no idea what all of these icons mean. An army in the desert? Maybe its coming to conquer you! I'll figure out what the icons mean when the players adventure close enough they could reach them in a single session. But for the first session I zoom way in, I do not give the player the entire hex map. For this sandbox I am running Frozen in Time a DCC funnel where cavemen find a crashed spaceship. I zoomed into the arctic region on my hexmap, this in the only area the players are familiar with when they start the game:  So how do I run things? In this scenario the players are going to be given a magic radar that detects "ancient artifacts" (aka magic items) and a big map with all of the powerful items in the area. They were isolationists and primative, so they don't know much about the outside world and the chief of the tribe is gonna tell them to go out and gather up some of these items for the tribe! The PCs can choose which items they want to travel towards and the rival parties from the tribe are gonna be going after the items the PCs choose to neglect. So the world is dynamic, these rival parties are going to come back stronger and maybe one of them wants to take over the tribe? Maybe one of them find a really powerful item and decides to do more ambitious things? Every item on the map has an adventure module from Dungeon Crawl Classics associated with it. So if the module calls for a town they will find a town when they get to the destination. Or a cave or whatever. I haven't read all of the modules I will read it when the players tell me what items they are going for. Its a quantum world, it only comes into existence when the players look at it. And that ties into the encounter system I have come up with. To generate the world dynamically I'm going with a huge 2d20 encounter table with special events at the improbable ends:2-3 Negative Capstone Event 4-8 Dungeons 9-13 Villain NPC encounters 14-18 Terrain Hazards 19-23 Normal Wilderness encounter table from OSRIC 24-28 Terrain Wonders 29-33 NPC Encounters 34-38 Settlements 39-40 Positive Capstone Event Every time the players travel through a hex a 2d6 is rolled. A roll of 1 on the first die indicates they have a day time encounter, a roll of 1 on the second die means a night time encounter. If I get snake eyes its a night time encounter with a -5 to the encounter roll. The encounter roll is 2d20, which biases the chances towards normal wilderness encounters. This is the typical "roll a monster on the table and roll its reaction" type scenario. The more uncommon random encounter are a bit more interesting. If the party rolls Dungeon they will encounter one of the 5 random dungeons I have prepared. Its now marked on the map, wherever they happened to be when they found it. The same is true when they roll Settlement. They will find one of the random towns, and it will be marked on the map. A random town existing in the area will make your job as DM a bit interesting, as you need to fit it into the politics of the region. NPC encounters are like monster encounters, but with prepared NPCs. Terran wonders/hazards are events that are more environmental challenges rather than just monsters (like a large river is blocking your path). The capstone events are the most interesting. These are very rare to roll so they are a huge deal. This can be something like "Orcs invade the region" or "The Emperor Dies and his sons begin a civil war" or "A spaceship crashes in the valley", just wild stuff that is going to change everything. The players are going to hear about this event where ever they are, so you have to be a bit creative. Maybe a messenger show up if they are in the deep wilderness, or they see a bright flash in the sky. To generate the encounter table I use a lot of random resources. A lot of these are too tedious to use at the table, but they are great for preparing your compact encounter table: D30 DM Companion & D30 Sandbox Companion: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/102567/d30-DM-Companion https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/124392/d30-Sandbox-Companion Kevin Crawfords Worlds/Stars without Number & Scarlet Heroes https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/226996/Stars-Without-Number-Revised-Edition?src=hottest_filtered https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/348791/Worlds-Without-Number https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/127180/Scarlet-Heroes Wilderness Hexplore Revised: http://www.jedmc.com/ixdd/2016/7/12/wilderness-hexplore Tome of Adventure Design https://fggstaging.com/product/tome-of-adventure-design/ D20 Toolbox: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/3537/Toolbox Once I've done this prep work its actually very easy to run week to week. Make sure to keep detailed time records and have some armies and empires and rival adventuring parties doing stuff in the background. The story hooks just emerge organically. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Sep 22, 2022 |
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Sep 22, 2022 17:54
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Honestly, the worst part of running (and playing) travel and exploration is balancing things that actually happen on a given day. If you want to streamline the process, set 3 times per day (morning, afternoon, night) that the players have to roll a d12. 9 gives warnings of nearby danger, 10 gives observation of threats but no encounter, 11 is a mild encounter (batch of creatures or traveling bandits), 12 is a dangerous encounter (large creature, people hunters, dangerous weather event). Every roll under 9 is a normal portion of travel, which admittedly most travel should be just walking. If the players roll low and ask to do something, let them. If the players do something stupid or risky, like blowing something up or starting a large fire at night, have them roll an additional d12. Once you have that laid out, just pick a number of days you want them to travel and have some setpiece obstacles to overcome, like fording a raging river, scaling a cliff, coming across a goblin raid, etc. I've also had DMs include rolling for weather, which is fine. It adds more stuff to do, but also means you have to wrap in impacts of good/bad weather into your encounters. Tomb of Annihilation does a great job with exploration and travel. The map is a hex grid with most of it uncharted for players, you have to roll to see if you know where you're going, and you have a list of potential encounters on a dice table depending on the biome you are in. You can also vary the speed that you travel, especially if you take the time to get other modes of transport, which modifies your ability to navigate and the amount of encounters you might see in a given day. If you need something to work off of, I would suggest pulling directly from that.
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Sep 22, 2022 18:14
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Raenir Salazar's recaps of their games are usually insane (no offense to you, Raenir). I don't know how that group functions at all (once again, no offense intended).
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Sep 22, 2022 19:56
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imagine dungeons posted:Raenir Salazar's recaps of their games are usually insane (no offense to you, Raenir). I don't know how that group functions at all (once again, no offense intended). Tbf its been MUCH better for the past little while; I think the main issue is now we have one of the players being a new DM for the first time and our party composition is overpowered for some encounters but easily wiped in others so encounters have been very swingy as they're trying to figure it out. e: For the main campaign especially its been very chill for many months now; with mainly just what I think are just the usual table problems of "sometimes its hard to get a word in edgewise" and sometimes the encounters lean a little too far towards being balanced relative to the most strongest characters of an already strong party so the least optimized characters struggle more. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Sep 22, 2022 |
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Sep 22, 2022 20:17
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My ranger gunslinger in our Eberron game was cursed and lost both of her eyes trying to fix it last session, so I had to pony up two attunement slots for fake ones. I'm going straight Order Cleric after this so maybe one of the Host can fix that at some point...
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Sep 22, 2022 21:12
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Soylent Pudding posted:I found this to be the most practical Angry GM example for running interesting wilderness travel: https://theangrygm.com/how-to-wilderness-right/ Thanks, I totally agree. I was looking for the link to that one but sometimes I forget where to find specific posts on his website. Have you implemented any of his stuff in your games? How has it gone if so?
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Sep 22, 2022 21:15
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change my name posted:My ranger gunslinger in our Eberron game was cursed and lost both of her eyes trying to fix it last session, so I had to pony up two attunement slots for fake ones. I'm going straight Order Cleric after this so maybe one of the Host can fix that at some point... Two?? One for each eye??
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Sep 22, 2022 21:16
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change my name posted:My ranger gunslinger in our Eberron game was cursed and lost both of her eyes trying to fix it last session, so I had to pony up two attunement slots for fake ones. I'm going straight Order Cleric after this so maybe one of the Host can fix that at some point... you missed an opportunity to wear two eyepatches
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Sep 22, 2022 21:18
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pog boyfriend posted:you missed an opportunity to wear two eyepatches Just how do you think those attunement slots were used??
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Sep 22, 2022 21:21
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Jack B Nimble posted:Two?? One for each eye?? Yeah..... Look up the Ersatz Eye from Xanathar's, it's a fake eye but each needs its own slot. But the DM said I can get them enchanted with darkvision and other stuff in the future so it's not necessarily a total wash
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Sep 22, 2022 21:41
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Raenir Salazar posted:The key mistake was me face tanking that opening hit but in fairness we never fought these blood cultist before and didn't know they would hit for so hard. I would've been able to be on the front line more easily. It's a problem with both storytelling D&D and tactics D&D. A lot of DMs seem to feel like encounters have to be deadly or they're not interesting, because they're tactics players and that's what'd be fun if they were playing. But even then the joy is in winning, not in being wiped out in an encounter that is constantly being hitched up to be unwinnable. And as Brennan Lee Mulligan said in an adventuring academy episode, heroes don't run away, so it doesn't really work for story players either. A lot of both types of players are going to feel like they failed the encounter if they run. Retreat can make for dramatic moments in noninteractive storytelling like movies, TV or books but the reason it works there is because you're watching the hero, you're not the hero. And it drives me nuts when people bring screenwriting rules into interactive storytelling like that, because removing agency from players defeats the entire objective of the medium! E: Mostly it annoys me in video games when you someone gets stabbed in a cutscene, especially when it comes with a healthy dose of ludonarrative disonnance from a character who's been tanking multiple lances a round before that is suddenly terrified of a dagger. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Sep 22, 2022 |
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Sep 22, 2022 21:46
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its essential if you want your players to run away from bad stuff is to tell them at the beginning of the campaign that sometimes you should run away and give them in game tools to gauge as players if running away is a good idea or not
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Sep 22, 2022 21:58
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Bobby Deluxe posted:That whole thing reads different in light of the DM insisting that they gave you chances to run away, which is usually DM code for "I had planned for you guys to run away, why didn't you run." When I want the players to run I try and telegraph it to be VERY obvious. "Oh you plan to attack head on? You realize this is an orc army of 10,000 veteran soldiers right? Like, I'm not even gonna roll anything, if you do this you are gonna die. Maybe I'll roll to see if anyone gets captured"
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Sep 22, 2022 22:26
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I've heard other people say having them effortlessly off an NPC the players already know is a higher level can also be effective. Are there any other good ways others know of signalling to players?
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Sep 22, 2022 22:42
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I've heard other people say having them effortlessly off an NPC the players already know is a higher level can also be effective. Are there any other good ways others know of signalling to players?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LnwLn9vnKo
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Sep 22, 2022 22:51
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I've heard other people say having them effortlessly off an NPC the players already know is a higher level can also be effective. Are there any other good ways others know of signalling to players? "The Troll Chieftan is wearing a t-shirt that reads, 'Now would be a good time to run away.'"
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Sep 22, 2022 23:11
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Honestly I think your two options are really just 'don't have unwinnable fights' and 'outright tell your players that the fight is unwinnable'. Unwinnable fights is a thing I've seen DMs try to do a lot, and honestly even if you do pull it off, the reward isn't worth the risk to the flow of the game.
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Sep 22, 2022 23:42
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Just have them do a bunch of powerful stuff and be super arrogant and if the party still wants to go after them... well there's always Force Cage haha
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Sep 22, 2022 23:56
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I've heard other people say having them effortlessly off an NPC the players already know is a higher level can also be effective. Are there any other good ways others know of signalling to players? just tell them, if you want the players to know something tell them and don't dance around it forever. Escaping in D&D is difficult to impossible for the majority of fights anyway (many enemies are a lot faster than players, let alone enemies with grapple or disabling/slowing spells), if you want players to run away make it clear they can and should be doing so Piell fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Sep 23, 2022 |
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Sep 23, 2022 00:01
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I've heard other people say having them effortlessly off an NPC the players already know is a higher level can also be effective. Are there any other good ways others know of signalling to players? Tread carefully, since this kinda takes agency away from players. I'm running Curse of Strahd right now and offed a recently met NPC to demonstrate the clear and present danger of the setting. The players absolutely did not like not being able to intervene (or at least attempt anything) in the process. Alternatively, either don't have the finality of death or make it an unliked NPC.
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Sep 23, 2022 00:10
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If you want players to run away you need to tell the players that they have to directly, then I recommend doing a skill challenge to see if they escape and if they fail maybe a patrol or some of the minions they can actually beat catch up and they end up in a fight. Players do NOT want to run, they want to fight and win, so make the escaping the encounter.
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Sep 23, 2022 00:39
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Piell posted:just tell them, if you want the players to know something tell them and don't dance around it forever. Escaping in D&D is difficult to impossible for the majority of fights anyway (many enemies are a lot faster than players, let alone enemies with grapple or disabling/slowing spells), if you want players to run away make it clear they can and should be doing so This. Yes, it's best to try and convey things via narrative and description, but there's nothing wrong with straight up telling the players stuff they need to know. E: For example, if they've found every clue in an investigation adventure, don't let them dick around. Just tell them they've found all the clues and it's time to move on.
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Sep 23, 2022 00:42
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PeterWeller posted:This. Yes, it's best to try and convey things via narrative and description, but there's nothing wrong with straight up telling the players stuff they need to know. You think that'd work, but I can't count the number of times I told a player "Don't roll for perception, you saw it all" and they didn't believe me
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Sep 23, 2022 02:07
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Tosk posted:Thanks, I totally agree. I was looking for the link to that one but sometimes I forget where to find specific posts on his website. Have you implemented any of his stuff in your games? How has it gone if so? Tension pool works really well. I tried using his inspiration rework but my players always forgot they had it. I've used his spirit points system and I think it worked really well. My players did get much more willing to consider retreat and whether combats were worth fighting once they took the hp damage. His monster and encounter design articles have probably been the most useful for me and I've done some cool stuff with his paragon monster system. My last campaign was entirely about a heist in a pirate city so I never got to use the wilderness travel stuff.
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Sep 23, 2022 02:07
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HellCopter posted:You think that'd work, but I can't count the number of times I told a player "Don't roll for perception, you saw it all" and they didn't believe me I once told several players that a pit was bottomless, they even used their senses and such to check it. Because it was there, they were convinced there was something in it, so they jumped in and were mad when they died. I even made each one of them say to me "I, (characters name here) choose willingly to leap into a pit I know to be bottomless."
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Sep 23, 2022 03:03
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I've heard other people say having them effortlessly off an NPC the players already know is a higher level can also be effective. Are there any other good ways others know of signalling to players? I like the magic phrasing 'It is obvious to you that ...' Also make it clear that fleeing is something that will just work and they're guaranteed to get away, and that they don't have to try and flee using the initiative system and movement rules.
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Sep 23, 2022 03:41
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Elendil004 posted:I once told several players that a pit was bottomless, they even used their senses and such to check it. Because it was there, they were convinced there was something in it, so they jumped in and were mad when they died. How did they die?
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Sep 23, 2022 06:50
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Dehydration
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Sep 23, 2022 06:57
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I've heard other people say having them effortlessly off an NPC the players already know is a higher level can also be effective. Are there any other good ways others know of signalling to players? Have them be escorting an NPC they need to keep alive and who they know can't survive a fight, and have the thing you want them to run from be obviously gunning for that NPC. Then you can turn it into a chase encounter where the object is for them to get the NPC away safely, and they can feel like heroes doing that.
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Sep 23, 2022 06:59
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Deteriorata posted:"The Troll Chieftan is wearing a t-shirt that reads, 'Now would be a good time to run away.'" The Spelljammer included adventure starts this way with "you're supposed to run away" I'm running it soonish and don't know yet how to telegraph it. Should I just tell the players: These enemies keep re-spawning and you will eventually be exhausted and die, run right now?
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Sep 23, 2022 08:45
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Elendil004 posted:I once told several players that a pit was bottomless, they even used their senses and such to check it. Because it was there, they were convinced there was something in it, so they jumped in and were mad when they died. Gygax would be proud.
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Sep 23, 2022 08:47
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