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limp dick calvin
Sep 1, 2006

Strepitoso. Vedete? Una meraviglia.
I love getting rescued when it’s obvious I’m the only one who forgot the mechanic. Keeps me humble

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Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


Based on the expected return values listed for tomorrow's best option (horn > scythe x2), I'm guessing Friday is a recommended rest day for the workshop?

iPodschun
Dec 29, 2004

Sherlock House

Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:

Where are these recommendations at?
The recommendations channel here is what I look at too. I mostly just wanted the 17k achievement for my characters but making a lot of cowries is fun so I'm still using what they say.


Thundarr posted:

Based on the expected return values listed for tomorrow's best option (horn > scythe x2), I'm guessing Friday is a recommended rest day for the workshop?
From what I've seen, the standard rest days they recommend are day 1 (supply and demand reset with new week, can't predict what's profitable day 1) and day 4 (can predict what to do on days 5-7).

Heroic Yoshimitsu
Jan 15, 2008

Thanks!

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Thundarr posted:

Based on the expected return values listed for tomorrow's best option (horn > scythe x2), I'm guessing Friday is a recommended rest day for the workshop?

Looking at projections I don't think we can expect huge returns like the start of the week, but yeah if you take tomorrow off you're probably going to find better for the rest of the week.

hexwren
Feb 27, 2008

the most annoying rescue I ever had to deal with was one time where I was tanking an alliance raid (void ark?) and I was pulling one of the halves of the split boss to the edge opposite the other tank like you do

and then I get rescued because I wasn't taking a convenient enough angle for some dickhead healer who had gone northwest instead of west like I did (or whatever, it's a round arena and it was like a 45 degree angle of difference)

it had exactly zero effect on the play or the situation, but it was infuriating because it was so unnecessary

like, clearly I am pulling the boss in the correct direction (to the edge), I have enough anxiety tanking, just let me do my job

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Corbeau posted:

That's exactly what I mean: those well-in-advance situations are the only situations in which stuff like rescue works... in this game.

Now think of a fight where you're moving as a group, dropping AoEs behind everyone. P2S, let's say. If someone starts late, they get obliterated by the AoEs being baited. My experience is that by the time you visually see someone behind the group, it's too late for anything you do to affect them before the server marks them as dead. I don't think rescue would even work anyway, due to how janky the positional snapshotting is if the caster is in motion.

In an equivalent mechanic in Argus, which is the fight most burned into my brain by ~500 pulls of prog, I could reliably save someone who fell behind based on seeing them move a split-second behind the group. The fight design itself certainly wasn't slower than the P2S fight - WoW tends to be quite frenetic by comparison - but the servers were far more responsive with a much higher tickrate and probably better latency to the players to boot.

I don't particularly have any trouble rescuing someone who isn't in a situation where even an insta-cast wouldn't save their rear end. As long as you are keeping an eye on your DPS (or rarely tank) you can often tell preemptively who is loving up. That's half the fun of playing healer is realizing "oh, this person is way off where they need to be." Sometimes it is a gamble (do I rescue a BLM or trust they are going to teleport themselves) but usually it's not too hard. You just need to be focusing on the entire party and a good healer should be doing that anyway. I wouldn't complain if Rescue was more responsive but it's easy enough to know when you need it. (And this is with randos. With statics/groups I have to imagine it's VERY easy to recognize when Johnny Fiveascians is standing in the tankbuster spot again.)

(I don't really care how WoW does stuff because 'basically requires mods' is ridiculous and designing your game around those mods is ridiculous.)

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010

Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:

Where are these recommendations at?

https://discord.gg/eWqxu9E7m3

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


WoW does not require mods and does not design around those mods most of the time for most of the content most people access.

Sometimes there is a mythic fight that is heavily trivialised by mods, but no fight actually requires them no matter what the playerbase says.

Also, the mod everyone uses in WoW is in FFXIV and they do roughly the same thing in both game (remove the need to think for yourself through mechanics).

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


Lord_Magmar posted:

WoW does not require mods and does not design around those mods most of the time for most of the content most people access.

Sometimes there is a mythic fight that is heavily trivialised by mods, but no fight actually requires them no matter what the playerbase says.

Also, the mod everyone uses in WoW is in FFXIV and they do roughly the same thing in both game (remove the need to think for yourself through mechanics).

the difference is that everyone openly uses dbm and cactbot is a rarity from what I've seen

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009



Today I learned you can roll zero.

I wanted that twine!!!!!!!

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades

SirSamVimes posted:

the difference is that everyone openly uses dbm and cactbot is a rarity from what I've seen

Anecdotally, I don't think it's a rarity. But people can't talk about it so it's not as visible.

Kagaya Homoraisan
Aug 28, 2019

You say, run away
Instead, you get scared
For the way that I feel
Drops out into all this disorder
savage clear rates are consistently about 1% of all active players. extreme primals are a bit more but not much more. there is no other content in the game where cactbot is even mildly helpful. no ones firing up cactbot for aglaia unless theyre also using it for the big stuff. it is actually quite rare to be using it.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Corbeau posted:

Anecdotally, I don't think it's a rarity. But people can't talk about it so it's not as visible.

As someone in multiple discords for end game content, it's a rarity even among the tiny portion of the game population doing savage/EX stuff. ACT is pretty ubiquitous but cactbot is fairly uncommon

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!
why did mods even come up, we the conversation was about server ping rates and lag. weird jab at wow out of nowhere.

Steelion
Aug 2, 2009
I used to use ACT-based scripted callouts for stuff like animation telegraphs, but nowadays I don't have to spend so much of my focus on basic rotation and movement (I've gotten better, and I swapped from playing bard to playing tank) so I haven't bothered setting any up since like, Stormblood.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Kagaya Homoraisan posted:

savage clear rates are consistently about 1% of all active players. extreme primals are a bit more but not much more. there is no other content in the game where cactbot is even mildly helpful. no ones firing up cactbot for aglaia unless theyre also using it for the big stuff. it is actually quite rare to be using it.

Seen someone using it on P7 normal. Or they're absurdly good at guessing which fist will punch. They were moving well before the markers appeared, and just enough to get out of the way instead of "head to the guaranteed safe spot in the back".

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Bruceski posted:

Seen someone using it on P7 normal. Or they're absurdly good at guessing which fist will punch. They were moving well before the markers appeared, and just enough to get out of the way instead of "head to the guaranteed safe spot in the back".

On Normal for both arena designs you can just run to the front of the platform and dodge both punches.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1572953656726786053/photo/2

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.
Really hope that concert comes to America. I went to the first one in LA and it was incredible and I remain sad as hell that whatever plans they may have had for the 2nd one to come stateside got killed by the pandemic.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Lord_Magmar posted:

On Normal for both arena designs you can just run to the front of the platform and dodge both punches.

Yup, and that's what I do. They didn't.

Oneiros
Jan 12, 2007



iirc savage tier clear rates (not just someone popping in to try the first turn, but actually cleared the tier) tend to hover around 5-15% of endgame characters for NA and up to nearly 30% for JP servers

and i think things like cactbot may be more prevalent among raiders than people realize. i get invited to a shitload of statics' discords when i sub in and there's usually at least one person using it. even in pf with randos i've seen people using it to put callouts in chat

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

Cactbot doesn't tell you which fist is punching until the marker comes out. Assuming we're talking about the left/right knockback punch.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

SettingSun posted:

Cactbot doesn't tell you which fist is punching until the marker comes out. Assuming we're talking about the left/right knockback punch.

Oh. Well then I guess the guy was just lucky a lot. I've seen odder streaks, shouldn't have jumped to conclusions.

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013

Yeah to be clear cactbot will tell you some really cheaty things but not really in p7 (or in savage). I'm sure there are cheatier mods out there that would actually telegraph that sooner?

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


I always run to the middle so I'll have the same distance to run either way when the marker appears

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

FuturePastNow posted:

I always run to the middle so I'll have the same distance to run either way when the marker appears

Yeah, if I know where I'm going there's no need to hesitate.

Kerrzhe
Nov 5, 2008

cactbot also has a fishing plugin but it's been replaced by a better one in Gatherbuddy

Trash Ops
Jun 19, 2012

im having fun, isnt everyone else?

cactbot and gathebuddy are for cowards

Kagaya Homoraisan
Aug 28, 2019

You say, run away
Instead, you get scared
For the way that I feel
Drops out into all this disorder

Oneiros posted:

iirc savage tier clear rates (not just someone popping in to try the first turn, but actually cleared the tier) tend to hover around 5-15% of endgame characters for NA and up to nearly 30% for JP servers

and i think things like cactbot may be more prevalent among raiders than people realize. i get invited to a shitload of statics' discords when i sub in and there's usually at least one person using it. even in pf with randos i've seen people using it to put callouts in chat

but endgame characters are already a minority. thats the thing. thats the reason i quoted 1% all active characters. most people play this game up to cap and then stop. or they never even get there. you are talking about fractions of fractions of players and going "well that must mean its like everyone"

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Dangit, I planned to get a screenshot after the fight but the fences disappeared.

In the new dungeon you know those fences on the final boss? I found out today that if the angle is just right you can get blown through the seam between two of them and into the poison.

aers
Feb 15, 2012

SettingSun posted:

Yeah to be clear cactbot will tell you some really cheaty things but not really in p7 (or in savage). I'm sure there are cheatier mods out there that would actually telegraph that sooner?

impossible, your client has no idea until the server tells it to draw the marker/play the animation

the only reason it worked on e4s punches is the server has to tell the client "okay play the left glow, left glow animation" and the animation is so long that you have that information way in advance

Zanael
Jan 30, 2007

Finn 3:16 says I just licorice
whipped your peppermint ass

Bruceski posted:

Oh. Well then I guess the guy was just lucky a lot. I've seen odder streaks, shouldn't have jumped to conclusions.

Isn't the order of the punches fixed ? Like in P1, it seems the flails are always in the same order at the start of the fight.

Jabbering Idiot
Jun 5, 2013

aers posted:

impossible, your client has no idea until the server tells it to draw the marker/play the animation

the only reason it worked on e4s punches is the server has to tell the client "okay play the left glow, left glow animation" and the animation is so long that you have that information way in advance

I remember on that fight in particular there were players that would know if the "Plate Fracture" breaking the platform (the big windup-slam, not the punches where his fists glow) was going to hit front or back in advance, and not just left or right. I'm fairly certain there's no way to determine this visually or logically for the first punch, and yet they would run front or back correctly on the targeted side.

I figured that was cheating, at least. Even if there wasn't much gained from that in particular.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.



Finally got the head, it's a shame that's not dyable. Still gonna try and make it work in a Halloween glam. Are there any good chestpieces for tattered clothing or mummy bandages or something?

Oneiros
Jan 12, 2007



Kagaya Homoraisan posted:

but endgame characters are already a minority. thats the thing. thats the reason i quoted 1% all active characters. most people play this game up to cap and then stop. or they never even get there. you are talking about fractions of fractions of players and going "well that must mean its like everyone"

oh, i'm not disputing that it's a small fraction of total players. as you said stuff like cactbot/triggernometry/whatever are basically completely unnecessary in normal content and it'd be pretty silly to run them there unless you had a very specific, niche need they somehow fulfilled

i was just noting that, among people who actually do end-game raiding, i think their use probably more prevalent than commonly understood

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



hexwren posted:

I have enough anxiety tanking, just let me do my job

I see this a lot, and should probably post this in the newbie thread, buuuuuuut as a tank of 15 years across various games:

You are not made of glass and you have all the tools you need to do your job at a base level of competence. Unless you literally fall asleep at the keyboard you won't lose aggro. Any situation with a boss you have the tools to survive--I was TRYING to die in EX4 the other night after all of the rest of the party died, and it still took me a solid 15-30 seconds of standing in every mechanic I could find to do so. The most hair-raising situations you'll be in generally involve trash pulls between bosses--keep calm and roll your mitigation cooldowns. You won't be very efficient at first, but after enough pulls you'll get a sense for what the cadence looks like, how to judge how many you need and when, and what priority you should use them in.

Tank-xiety is an illusion your brain is playing on you. You're a bloody juggernaut capable of throwing the entire party on your back after your healers and DPS decided to dance in the bad mechanics and died (I should know, I've done it a lot). You will almost always be the last person standing through no fault of your own. You'll do just fine.

Now, given the mechanical complexity of modern MMO boss design, the tank role is almost entirely superfluous to encounter design. In this essay I will

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth
Tanxiety isn't about how difficult the job it's that people are looking at you while you do it. You're standing in front of the class giving a speech about your summer.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013



3 out of 7. 11 fish to go for a 100% filled log.

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Good News Everyone
Apr 30, 2009
Hello fellow ffxiv goons! I got into the game a couple of months ago and it has summarily consumed my brain. I am currently struggling with the beginning of SB, which is pretty dull to be honest. I hear it gets better around 65? Please tell me it gets more interesting. I am possibly a bit burnt out from HW, but I really want to unlock things and progress.

I'm a WoW refugee (played for 14 years) and ffxiv is so much nicer. So many things to do. Such a kinder community. A ferret lives on my shoulder. What a time!

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