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Turin Turambar posted:-As a game that is a FPS with two weapon slots, you would want both slots to be used by the players. Switching weapons around and deciding which is the best for each fight is a staple of the genre. Maybe the player has one weapon for longer ranges and another for shorter ranges. Or a weapon good against some enemies with a specific elemental weakness, and another against enemies with hard to hit weak spot. Whatever. I do agree that levelling weapons is a bit too strong but I think you're also overstating just how strong it is... leveling a weapon from 12 to 20 increases its DPS by 42%, while using a lightning weapon on an enemy with shield is a 50% DPS increase over an identical weapon with no element and a 100% DPS increase over an identical weapon with fire or corrosion. Switching from the wrong element to the right one adds DPS equivalent to leveling a weapon from 12 to 31 (which is half of why element share is such a strong gemini mod, since it means you're strong against two healthbar types instead of weak against two). It is pretty much always better to focus on one great gun but it's mostly because it streamlines decision making, both when dealing with mods/goblets/scrolls and in-combat where switching a weapon feels really weirdly sticky and changes your movement speed.
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Sep 19, 2022 14:28
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Count Uvula posted:An exception is that '[element] ball on crit' scales exclusively on gun level and increases to skill damage IIRC so if you find lightning or fire ball on crit on a Aura of Venom/Cloud Weaver/Sunder it can be worth carrying that sucker all the way to the end, especially if you get goblets or scrolls that boost skill dmg since those apply to the balls. That is...quite unintuitive.
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Sep 19, 2022 15:22
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Its harder solo, but in groups you also dont always really care about weapon dmg. I went a fox secondary skill build where it was better to just spam my Q than to fire my weapon. I had multiple sources of extra secondary skill uses so I think I had 36 charges max and gained a free one every 3 seconds. Didn't really care about weapon upgrades/damage at that point
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Sep 19, 2022 15:48
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Does Concealed Fire's explosion scale off of weapon level or is it flat damage? Just curious, never really got a lot of use out of it but had one drop for Big Dog that had two exclusives (regenerates half of ammo used when throwing it and every 5 ammo left in the mag when throwing it causes an extra explosion) and just slam picked explosive ascensions and lmao'd my way through the rest of the run, but I was wondering if the thousands of dollars I pumped into the weapon level had a point.
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Sep 19, 2022 16:00
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SkeletonHero posted:Does Concealed Fire's explosion scale off of weapon level or is it flat damage? The damage of Concealed Ammo's secondary is the total damage the ammo in it would have dealt with body shots, multiplied by IIRC 0.75. So yeah, anything that increases the damage of the weapon increases the damage of the explosion.
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Sep 19, 2022 17:13
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Does Monkey’s “use no ammo for the next 5 shots” thing work with Concealed Ammo’s throw? I love the fact that Monkey gets to really abuse some of the (otherwise) worst primary weapons in the game. Like Wild Hunt is hot trash on basically everyone except Monkey. And Bone Dragon / Tiger Cannon are craaaazy when you never need to reload. I’ve never even considered ROF of Tiger Cannon to ever be a meaningful stat before.
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Sep 19, 2022 17:35
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DNK posted:Does Monkey’s “use no ammo for the next 5 shots” thing work with Concealed Ammo’s throw? It doesn't work with stuff like Deft Hands so I don't think so. Monkey's weapon usage can get icnreasingly ridiculous with the Assaulter spirit blessing, where both weapon bonuses count at the same time. You can get a 100 magazine tiger cannon from Spirit Link, and then pair it with a shotgun, pistol, or rifle for +75% projectiles, +300% projectile speed, or +75% damage respectively.
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Sep 19, 2022 18:02
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Monkey can also use that ability to abuse the best weapon in the game: Deafening Mortar. Its exclusive inscription "Weapon skill consumes all magazine ammo and fires more mortar shells" counts as one shot. Combine that with a shares-clip gemini and an offhand weapon with a 100+ bullet clip and never stop exploding. If you're quick, it's possible to finish an entire stage by right-clicking once.
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Sep 19, 2022 18:44
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I'm very much an anecdotal, feel it out kind of gamer. Try not to look up guides, test things out myself to get impressions, etc. Glad to hear there's some more crazy stuff you can do with Gemini now, guess I need to try some more stuff out. The siren call of ability builds though...Noper Q posted:Monkey can also use that ability to abuse the best weapon in the game: Deafening Mortar. Its exclusive inscription "Weapon skill consumes all magazine ammo and fires more mortar shells" counts as one shot. Combine that with a shares-clip gemini and an offhand weapon with a 100+ bullet clip and never stop exploding. If you're quick, it's possible to finish an entire stage by right-clicking once. Guess I know what builds for Monkey I'm trying next. Bet you could do it with Bird too, though you would need to reload occasionally.
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Sep 19, 2022 19:54
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Evil Kit posted:I'm very much an anecdotal, feel it out kind of gamer. Try not to look up guides, test things out myself to get impressions, etc. Glad to hear there's some more crazy stuff you can do with Gemini now, guess I need to try some more stuff out. The siren call of ability builds though... There's a spirit link that adds 100 magazine to any launcher that's apparently generic so you can get it on all classes, and it doesnt require much from RNG:  It effectively makes any launcher no-reload for all intents and purposes, its super fun on dog or monkey. Also got this last night on a literally cursed run, which was a fun bonus: 
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Sep 19, 2022 20:28
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DNK posted:I love the fact that Monkey gets to really abuse some of the (otherwise) worst primary weapons in the game. Like Wild Hunt is hot trash on basically everyone except Monkey. And Bone Dragon / Tiger Cannon are craaaazy when you never need to reload. I’ve never even considered ROF of Tiger Cannon to ever be a meaningful stat before. eh, I'd be careful dismissing those guns as the "worst" in the same manner as, say, Talisman's lackluster DPS while they're definitely not good by default, it's not because they don't have anything going for them, it's because their strong aspects are offset by severe drawbacks (magazine size most prominently) but the thing is that the game gives you the tools to potentially get around those limitations, so you should always be keeping them in mind - Wild Hunt is potentially one of the most OP options for pretty much every character (who isn't going in hard on weapon-type specific ascensions like a Lei Luo sniper build), as the small magazine and long reload reduce it to about ~1/6 of its potential DPS, meaning that if you can offset or eliminate that drawback you'll do completely bonkers damage Advanced Depot or the ammo pool Gemini are the most obvious universal methods, but something like Deft Hands can do in a pinch, especially when combined with some premium normal inscriptions (+60% ammo size, -reload time, +accuracy and range - if you ever see those 3 in combination on a Wild Hunt I'd *strongly* consider you give the gun a try) I do dumpster most Wild Hunts I come across (as I do most weapons), and its undeniable that its lower tier because of the extra stuff it takes to make it really work vs. something like an Illusion or Pupil, but if you have that stuff you're definitely getting big returns and more than just a replacement-level option out of it (which is what separates it from something like Talisman, a weapon that doesn't have anything that lets it "go off" vs. the alternatives) that said, having more support be in ascensions is really nice since it greatly increases the odds that you can actually make use of such a weapon (previously I think Qing Yan's Hail of Bullets was the only ascension that enabled Wild Hunt)
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Sep 19, 2022 20:57
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 Re: Weapon levels. I had been carrying a decent boomstick of a Scorcher (2x shot with a fast reload) but then this one appeared a few levels behind. The inscriptions were just too drat good to ignore given the rest of the build. Proceeded to have to scrounge and scrounge for every last bit of money to keep it on par. Could've been +12 but I forwent one last bump for Corrosion Enthusiast.  In general this is the first run where it really felt like everything clicked. A single mediocre ascension from Jokul and Bloody Ammo as my final vault scroll aside, this build was pretty drat good. And honestly with all the damage reduction I even felt somewhat confident that I could survive phase 3 if it came to it, but it didn't for the first time.  Early investment into Pyrodominance was a big factor I think. I uh, I don't think I consciously understood the distinction between +Fire DMG and +Fire Elemental Proc DMG until this run. Not to say I ever utterly ignored the elemental ascensions before, but the nuance was definitely lost on me.Also I got Crab Buffet easy peasy. 
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 21:15
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Hell yeah, congrats! I would have ditched Reasonable Luck after having two+ lucky shot chance scrolls like you did myself but frankly it probably doesn't matter too much. A win is a dub is a win, spend that soul essence wisely. Gotta say my favorite new occult scroll is Extravagant Consumption when solo. Really lets you double dip on gold value in terms of raw damage.
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Sep 19, 2022 21:28
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Evil Kit posted:Hell yeah, congrats! I would have ditched Reasonable Luck after having two+ lucky shot chance scrolls like you did myself but frankly it probably doesn't matter too much. I don't have the passive Lucky Shot boosts yet. So unless I'm overlooking something I'd be much worse off because I'd only hit the same 150% if Lone Wolf and Ninja Discipline were maxed out, with the latter being particularly volatile given the high rate of lucky shots at that point. (And of course, a high uptime on dashing required either way.) John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 21:46
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John Murdoch posted:I don't have the passive Lucky Shot boosts yet. So unless I'm overlooking something I'd be much worse off because I'd only hit the same 150% if Lone Wolf and even less reliably Ninja Discipline were maxed out. (And of course, a high uptime on dashing either way.) Sorry, was assuming you may have had some lucky shot chance on your gun inscriptions. Pretty sure you only get 25% from talents anyway so it's not super significant generally. Evil Kit fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 21:48
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Oh, lol, my weapon's right up there ^
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 22:09
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John Murdoch posted:Oh, lol, my weapon's right up there ^ I'm both tired and sick, that's my excuse and I'm sticking too it for why I didn't see it. 
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Sep 19, 2022 22:12
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'Sup tired and sick buddy. In fairness gun-based lucky shot chance would absolutely be something I'd brain off forget about when calculating for Reasonable Luck. Really, really wish there was a stat tracker you could just consult with instead of needing to add up your bonuses in your head. Unless that's another thing I've missed. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 22:13
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There isn't. I only just recently figured out how to inspect your Spiritual Blessings again too, since it isn't in the menu anywhere. Hold tab and then press C to get your cursor, lets you mouse over the blessings to get a tooltip for them again. Unless you have too many buffs/other things, which for some reason cover up the tool tip you're trying to read. The devs have done a solid job on the UI, but there are still some baffling choices. 
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Sep 19, 2022 22:33
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Been playing this recently with a buddy of mine (who I bought a copy of this for years ago but we never got into it then) and we've been having a blast. My biggest bummers about the game is the downtime between fights and the sorta uninspired level design. Just gets old slowly walking through each level after a fight to break every box and pick everything up or god forbid go back to hit up a vendor a stage or two back. The descriptions of upgrades or abilities also sometimes are pretty poorly translated in a way that doesn't make sense for a game that's been out of EA this long. I just did my first run with Lei Luo and I really love the chain lightning. My only win so far was with Qing Yan though, it's really satisfying getting in the faces of everything and cleaving over and over again. Less so in the boss fights though. 
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Sep 21, 2022 21:35
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Had a great R8 run yesterday until we got to the last stage of Fjord and got Innumerable Elites with nothing but Healing Powerful Kappas. It did not go well, or fast.
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Sep 22, 2022 09:46
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explosivo posted:Just gets old slowly walking through each level after a fight to break every box and pick everything up or god forbid go back to hit up a vendor a stage or two back. The worst is the scroll that adds currency drops to breakables. Normally at this point I only need to break the occasional pot to top up grenades or ammo after a tough fight, but that scroll slows everything way down. Bird feels borderline OP.
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Sep 22, 2022 17:46
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On Turtle, is there any real point to going all-in on anything other than punching? The other classes at least have a couple of distinct and worthwhile paths to go down, but Turtle's support for non-Striking Punch builds seems middling at best.
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Sep 22, 2022 20:31
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MMAgCh posted:On Turtle, is there any real point to going all-in on anything other than punching? The other classes at least have a couple of distinct and worthwhile paths to go down, but Turtle's support for non-Striking Punch builds seems middling at best. you can also just go in on aspis and pair it with like... anything at all gun or weapon-wise your aspis defensive options are... we'll say "strong," and for offense ascensions you've got things like Hostile Gift + Formidable Aspis + Wave Rider + Tidal Rythm that are all pretty agnostic about what you're doing then you've got a bunch of talents that want you at short range but don't necessarily need you to be leaning on punching for your damage (i.e. Unbearable Hurtle + Irrepressible Surge + Battle Adrenaline + Solid Shell) and which can be leveraged with melee weapons or short ranged shotguns (Concussive Current is also worth a mention as a punch talent primarily used to juice your sword/shotgun) there's also a really fun damage reflect build built around the Backfire spiritual blessing in conjunction with White Water (also plays extremely well with hurtle stuff) that's not to say that punching everything isn't fun and good and that Qian Sui's kit doesn't encourage you to get up in people's faces, but that's far from the only or even necessarily best way to play him
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Sep 22, 2022 21:07
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DNK posted:Does Monkey’s “use no ammo for the next 5 shots” thing work with Concealed Ammo’s throw? Hella belated but Wild Hunt Bird is arguably his strongest build, letting you easily solo R8 if you can get the early pieces together (which is a requirement for all characters for the most part) and let's you do so much damage there aren't a whole lot of non-elemental weapon builds that remotely compare. Seriously though, if you haven't tried it, go do it. You guys so fast and reload so infrequently they your main attention turns to aggressively dragging your mouse downward in order to manage recoil.
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Sep 23, 2022 01:13
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Update just dropped! It includes a bunch of bugfixes, as well as some changes to a few spiritual blessings and ascensions, buffs and nerfs alike. They also straight up removed the Gemini Inscription that buffs the base damage of the other weapon when doing X, which is kinda lol. Guess it really wasn't worth using. They've also clarified a few weirdly worded ascensions and most importantly added new Spiritual Links to each hero, some of which are based on spiritual blessings!!! They're kinda nuts, I'm playing Bunny for my first game and her Ice Blades ascension spiritual link makes your swords do 10% max hp true damage, with no cap.
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Sep 23, 2022 18:25
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I played this a while ago, and then my progress got wiped out. So starting from scratch, can anyone give me a tl;Dr of the most impactful changes since the super early days of this game? I think I stopped playing when cat and dog were the only characters. Maybe bird but idk that I ever used it if it was even ever unlocked
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Sep 23, 2022 18:40
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LordAdakos posted:I played this a while ago, and then my progress got wiped out. there's a lot the core gameplay loop is the same, but there are going to be quite a few differences in how it plays out there's a 4th act, every act except the 4th has two potential bosses, some level geometry changed, new monsters, a lot of new weapons + scrolls, a bunch of new characters, ascensions are different, talents are different, relatively balance of all of that stuff is different, probably some stuff I'm forgetting like the random room challenges? the biggest difference would be the end-game Reincarnation difficulty, which is beyond Nightmare and then has 8 separate difficulty sub-levels to unlock, as well as a variety of new mechanics that let you spend meta-currency on things like powerful spiritual blessings (basically like ascensions that range in power from "very nice to have" to "build enabling/defining") before each of the first 3 acts, enhanced weapons and occult scrolls from a separate phantom peddler, etc. (these bonuses are strong enough that at least the first few levels of reincarnation are actually a fair bit easier than Nightmare and tend to be good for farming spiritual essence if/when that's a concern) e: they also just added some stuff that changes up Reincarnation via optional mutators, the first gives out a lot of potential buffs unlocked by combining certain scrolls/ascensions/weapons and the second of which makes act 4 harder (but unlocks a spiritual blessing dude for act 4 that can replace one of your 3 or let you buy a 3rd if you didn't take one in a previous act e2: vvvv can't believe I forgot that, a fantastic example of stuff I'm forgetting b/c it's just so seemingly fundamental vvvv LGD fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 23, 2022 |
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Sep 23, 2022 18:59
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Unironically one of the most important changes they added was the ability to etch an inscription on your gun, the meta now is largely to find a strong gun in desert, etch a Gemini onto it, and upgrade that gun into the stratosphere
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Sep 23, 2022 19:02
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Arzaac posted:Unironically one of the most important changes they added was the ability to etch an inscription on your gun, the meta now is largely to find a strong gun in desert, etch a Gemini onto it, and upgrade that gun into the stratosphere Yeah I commented it a few days ago. The fact they have removed the Gemini inscription which was about swapping weapons and using both says a lot of how strong is the meta. Instead of removing the Gemini inscription, I wish they would have attacked the root cause.
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Sep 23, 2022 19:14
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Turin Turambar posted:Yeah I commented it a few days ago. The fact they have removed the Gemini inscription which was about swapping weapons and using both says a lot of how strong is the meta. Instead of removing the Gemini inscription, I wish they would have attacked the root cause. There were a lot of root causes making that particular gemini bad though, and making weapon swapping viable in general would require a rethink of their whole approach to weapon scaling/upgrading, which frankly is far a big ask for a single gemini that's always been lackluster (iirc). That gemini has been an odd-man-out for a long time, because all of the others are fairly obvious/intuitive in how they can be used with certain kinds of weapons to passively juice the hell out of your main weapon damage, while the swap gemini involved much higher effort to access finnicky on-death triggers that often can't help you when you need them most vs. bosses and still gave you lower returns before even taking the totally hosed scaling of needing two upgraded weapons OR the requirement for using low ROF/high damage weapons into account. The meta and game generally would need to be really, really, really different for that effect to be anything but bad (at least until you start getting into clearly absurd multipliers). That said, I do think they can/should rework a new weapon swap gemini, since they do have things that trigger off of or benefit from that behavior that are often under-utilized past Act 1 and there's no reason they couldn't make a good/competitive gemini around it - i.e. pattern it off of Ao Bai's Weapon Genius spiritual blessing and make the paired weapons share their highest upgrade level + some sort of substantial bonus for periodic swapping you can build around (so it appeals to characters who aren't non-Weapon Genius Ao Bai players).
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Sep 23, 2022 20:41
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so uhhh, fun fact. If you have Bloody ammo, Overwhelming shield, Thunder Screen and enough HP regen (say, by playing dog), you can knock your shield out, let it start recharging, then start firing your gun. And exactly what you might expect happens. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/789881673092562944/1023005546594435113/exploding_dog_man.mp4 I love this game.  Pro tip: Thunder Screen does damage in a column, not a circle. gently caress you Wind God. 
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Sep 24, 2022 00:00
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Pretty sure this Lei Luo Spiritual link is bugged, unless I'm not "getting" it: 
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Sep 24, 2022 10:53
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Is there a way to see your lucky shot chance? It would be nice to have a current stats section, for example the scroll that gives a bunch of lucky shot but also caps it. At some point it is better to drop that scroll but hard to tell exactly when
Fuck You And Diebold fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Sep 24, 2022 |
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Sep 24, 2022 14:49
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Fishstick posted:Pretty sure this Lei Luo Spiritual link is bugged, unless I'm not "getting" it: Just checked, and I guess your game is bugged? Or maybe that particular instance of a tool tip is incorrect, in the inventory menu Spiritual Link section this is what I found:  You need Voltaic Aegis at level 3, not Fulminous Zap. Hell, I'm doing a Tiger run now, rolled Thunder and Glory and...  Yup the game totally bugged out on you. That's really hosed up. gently caress You And Diebold posted:Is there a way to see your lucky shot chance? It would be nice to have a current stats section, for six like the scroll that gives a bunch of lucky shot bird also caps it. At some point it is better to drop that scroll but hard to tell exactly when Sadly, no. You can do some quick and dirty math when you start to recognize which scrolls give you lucky shot chance at a glance. My rule of thumb if you have a maxed out talent tree is 2 +20-5% flat chance scrolls + a weapon with scaling lucky shot chance inscription or two flat lucky shot inscriptions, Reasonable Luck is a loss. I generally don't take it if I see it anyway unless it's super early, and will ditch it as soon as I feel like I can.
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Sep 24, 2022 15:05
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Wow that's extremely weird. That was from a game last night and I dont see any hotfixes since. WTF. At least now I know how to get it properly. I checked ingame just now and it says Voltaic Aegis now too. Ah, found this appended to yesterday's patchnotes: quote:Bug Fix Edit: I also really wisht hey would just add weapon type (Launcher / Injector / Rifle /etc) to description cards so I dont have to go to a wiki to find out this shotgun thing is actually a pistol or something. Fishstick fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Sep 24, 2022 |
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Sep 24, 2022 16:14
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yeah hotfixes are usually just appended to previous major patch notes. It's kind weird. After you posted that spiritual link though I've been slamming my face into Reincarnation as Tiger, the game gleefully and happily reminding me why I don't play him solo. So squishy, and that particular build really needs to hit Magical Supply + Thunder Nemesis early on to really get rolling. Had a couple of good attempts going that got reamed by either Golem or the random Elite spawn in Desert 1 that Mysterious Jokul guarantees.
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Sep 24, 2022 16:37
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Finally unlocked the Talisman, this is the one that dropped for free:  IIRC, the lucky shot chance was the added etch. I was playing Rabbit which was not the best fit for it, but how could I say no??? Kept it in Corrosive and gemini'd it to a 50% lightning sword. Had Elemental Cube or w/e it's called to go along with it too.
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Sep 24, 2022 21:20
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Generally I don't find the talisman to be very good, but when one that busted just falls into your lap...
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Sep 24, 2022 22:07
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Did you know Bird's All or Nothing (sacrifice all your armor for extra damage when you kick) plus Enhanced Terminal Lucidity (reset cooldowns and get a free primary skill use when you lose 20% max HP, which counts armor) is a messed up combo? There are so many ways to restore armor, and I even had the Oppressor spiritual blessing. I also had Airbag, which has some fun synergies.. And Dual Edge, which I got early on and then completely forgot about until just now when I was looking at the log. I had like three layers of invincibility, so it never mattered. This game is fun. At least, it is for me; my poor friend who was playing with me got to shoot like five enemies for the entirety of Jokul.
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Sep 26, 2022 00:37
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