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Best Friends posted:Sourcebooks as “here’s what’s going on in the universe” and novels as “here’s a fun romp in the universe with minimal geopolitical impact” would be a way to resolve that. But then you couldn’t have your novels be about the Great Men of Future History which is what they mostly seem to want. Some of the novels that came out after the sourcebooks and covered the same stuff were just... painful. Like, wooden dialogue just to move the story along so it could hit Point A and then Point B the sourcebook said happened. I like sourcebooks a lot usually, but if they're hamstringing the novels, then they really should take a backseat. I'm sure they take way more work than a novel does (Since it takes a team of writers to make them), and they sell for the same price point in PDF form, novels seem the smarter way to make money/better storylines. I still want my Spirit Cat novel dangit.
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Sep 15, 2022 02:06
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Sourcebooks are the way to go unless they start integrating gameplay rules straight into the novels. If it's relevant to your core product it should take the lead. Also:Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Like, wooden dialogue just to move the story along so it could hit Point A and then Point B the sourcebook said happened. I hate to break it to you but this is just most Battletech novels regardless of whether there's already a sourcebook out.
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Sep 15, 2022 05:13
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I can't imagine genre writing pays well but man sometimes they just publish some painfully bad stuff. If I was the line developer in 1988 (and I wasn't able to strangle the Clans idea in the crib), I'd have spaced out Stackpole's trilogy wayyyyy further, and pushed all of Phelan's post-capture poo poo to the 2nd/3rd books. The unstoppable, mysterious invaders was a great development that should have stretched out over a dozen slice-of-life novels across the invasion front, each dropping nuggets as to what these mysterious marauders really were about. Instead, you got Stackpole Protagonist #3 getting to be the audience insert for the chosen faction of the developers to munchkin up by like chapter 15. I understand their business model caters more to the grogs and fig painters nowadays than the just-reads-the-books crowd like me, but I still argue the books should drive the narrative and the sourcebooks should clean up, much like was said already.
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Sep 15, 2022 05:25
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Defiance Industries posted:Sourcebooks are the way to go unless they start integrating gameplay rules straight into the novels. If it's relevant to your core product it should take the lead. Also: Case in point: Hour of the Wolf sucked poo poo
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Sep 15, 2022 06:03
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GD_American posted:I can't imagine genre writing pays well but man sometimes they just publish some painfully bad stuff. The thing is the books didn't magically become worse because they put out sourcebooks first. The books were less enjoyable to read because they aren't actually good, you're just reading them to know what happens next. And if you're not going to buy their core product why would they cater their entire universe to you? TR is the right direction to take things, focusing on making a setting for players to tell THEIR stories first.
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Sep 15, 2022 06:28
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Defiance Industries posted:(Naturally it only took Defiance Industries about twenty) You are a five star manufacturer after all!
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Sep 15, 2022 06:38
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GD_American posted:I can't imagine genre writing pays well but man sometimes they just publish some painfully bad stuff. The only official Battletech fiction I have consumed that was not incidental to a videogame was the audiobook of the Kerensky trilogy over the last few days and I jumped into the thread to see if anyone else had ever had the exact same thoughts as I did. Hello.
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Sep 15, 2022 10:56
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Defiance Industries posted:The thing is the books didn't magically become worse because they put out sourcebooks first. The books were less enjoyable to read because they aren't actually good, you're just reading them to know what happens next. And if you're not going to buy their core product why would they cater their entire universe to you? TR is the right direction to take things, focusing on making a setting for players to tell THEIR stories first. Nah, even if I take off my rose-tinted glasses of all the BattleTech fiction I read as a kid, there still is a pretty big difference between the fiction of say the 90s/00s compared to the fiction today. The number of non-military characters, the numbers of conversations that don't have to do with the lackluster battles, have all gone down. Hell, the character-building, which wasn't exactly high to begin with, has gone way down. In the last few years, has there been any character that's shown growth, learned from mistakes, etc.? At least the Dark Age Novel line had that. A lot of the characters today feel like action figures the authors are slamming into each other until they die. Just compare a novel like Heretic's Faith or Hunters of the Deep, neither of them are great novels, but they're still character-driven and don't feature a lot of combat, to some of the novels today like Redemption Rift, which I liked, but like most recent Wolf Dragoon's stuff, is mostly about "Dragoons create a new unit/resurrect an old unit, they go fight, they say 'UNITY', they win, the end." Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 12:46
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Nah, even if I take off my rose-tinted glasses of all the BattleTech fiction I read as a kid, there still is a pretty big difference between the fiction of say the 90s/00s compared to the fiction today. The number of non-military characters, the numbers of conversations that don't have to do with the lackluster battles, have all gone down. Hell, the character-building, which wasn't exactly high to begin with, has gone way down. In the last few years, has there been any character that's shown growth, learned from mistakes, etc.? At least the Dark Age Novel line had that. And is any of this different for books that came out after a sourcebook (Hunting Grounds) than ones that preceded them (Hour of the Wolf)? Or is it that bad stories are just bad?
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Sep 15, 2022 18:35
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Defiance Industries posted:And is any of this different for books that came out after a sourcebook (Hunting Grounds) than ones that preceded them (Hour of the Wolf)? Or is it that bad stories are just bad? Bad books are bad yes (Hour of the Wolf was very bad), but I think Catalyst has been trying to play catch-up with novels vis-a-vis sourcebooks, and that has led to a great deal of novels that just exist so that the story can be in novel form, without being really thought out and and actually interesting. They should slow down sourcebooks, and let novels lead the storyline, with sourcebooks filling in details.
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Sep 15, 2022 18:55
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Hour of the Wolf was a special case, in that Pardoe's last two books at least had mountains of fact checker comments saying everything from "this doesn't work in-universe" to "these are dumb motivations and the characters are behaving idiotically". As for how he took it and how much he adjusted as a result, well...
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Sep 15, 2022 19:02
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Star Wars sucks rear end
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Sep 15, 2022 19:19
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Bad books are bad yes (Hour of the Wolf was very bad), but I think Catalyst has been trying to play catch-up with novels vis-a-vis sourcebooks, and that has led to a great deal of novels that just exist so that the story can be in novel form, without being really thought out and and actually interesting. edit- I'm enamored with the History Book form 300 years in the future approach. Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 19:23
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Bad books are bad yes (Hour of the Wolf was very bad), but I think Catalyst has been trying to play catch-up with novels vis-a-vis sourcebooks, and that has led to a great deal of novels that just exist so that the story can be in novel form, without being really thought out and and actually interesting. This isn't a novel line with a tabletop game spinoff, it's a universe about a tabletop game with licensed fiction. A novel is someone else's story and the universe should, foremost, be a setting for telling YOUR story. Furthermore, if a story is actually good, it will be a decent read even if you already know what's going to happen. The Vedet Brewer novella that came out didn't leave me wondering if he would successfully play both sides against each other to take control of the government, but it was still interesting, because the core concept (Brewer spins web of lies, gets tangled up in local politics) was itself interesting, even if I knew the destination. Maybe if the story isn't interesting enough to carry a novel with me knowing the outcome, it just shouldn't exist in that form. Baron Porkface posted:Strong disagree, the sourcebooks should be the main information, novels gunk up the story with Main Character Syndrome. gently caress yes, that poo poo absolutely poisons everything from 3050 to 3067. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 19:30
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Have to agree to disagree then
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Sep 15, 2022 20:42
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I'm looking forward to the upcoming Battletech Universe sourcebook explicitly because I would like a coherent overview of what happens in the timeline but absolutely cannot stomach the idea of reading that many lovely novels.
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Sep 16, 2022 03:01
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Defiance Industries posted:This isn't a novel line with a tabletop game spinoff, it's a universe about a tabletop game with licensed fiction. A novel is someone else's story and the universe should, foremost, be a setting for telling YOUR story. Furthermore, if a story is actually good, it will be a decent read even if you already know what's going to happen. The Vedet Brewer novella that came out didn't leave me wondering if he would successfully play both sides against each other to take control of the government, but it was still interesting, because the core concept (Brewer spins web of lies, gets tangled up in local politics) was itself interesting, even if I knew the destination. I am very much in this camp. If a story is only enjoyable (or tolerable) the first time you engage with it, then it's not a good story. A good story is one you should be able to engage with again and again, even if you know the outcome, because the path to reach that conclusion is still an enjoyable ride. A bad story is one you can only read once, because once you know what happens, you look at the trip to reach that conclusion as a waste of time. A good story is one you can finish, and then go back to the start and read again. Plus in regard to the Sourcebooks vs the Novels, it's best to view the sourcebook as an overview or a summary of events. Novels can still provide a lot of insight that is relevant to the plot of that story, but is not very important to the grand setting.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:31
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Speaking of terrible Battletech fiction, I've spent the last week trying to slog through the Founding of the Clans trilogy. Jesus Christ but it's full of some of the most bloated prose I've ever had to read, and the story makes Andery Kerensky look like the most spineless man that ever lived. I just can't see how he was ever a moderating influence on his brother like some sources make him out to be. I don't think I'm going to be able to get through Land of Dreams. Still better written than Hour of the Wolf, though. Pussy Cartel fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Sep 17, 2022 |
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Sep 17, 2022 04:58
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I tried to read the first story of The Mercenary Life anthology and I came to the immediate conclusion that I cannot stand Randall Bills's prose within the first story, so I sympathize.
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Sep 17, 2022 05:01
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Pussy Cartel posted:Speaking of terrible Battletech fiction, I've spent the last week trying to slog through the Founding of the Clans trilogy. Jesus Christ but it's full of some of the most bloated prose I've ever had to read, and the story makes Andery Kerensky look like the most spineless man that ever lived. I just can't see how he was ever a moderating influence on his brother like some sources make him out to be. I don't think I'm going to be able to get through Land of Dreams. Randall N. Bills's protags has definitely gotten more self-hating and spineless as time has gone on. Path of Glory had a Clanner who was angry at his Clan's abjuration, but got better 2/3rds of the way through. Heretic's Faith had a Nova Cat Mystic who was extremely traumatized and had no faith but got better in the last chapter. The Founding Trilogy had Andery who just... never seems to get better. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Sep 17, 2022 |
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Sep 17, 2022 15:39
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I don't remember his main character from the FCCW book on Kathil being self-loathing. I don't remember that character being anything. His big character moment is objecting to the execution of prisoners of war.
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Sep 17, 2022 19:36
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My playgroup did a big FFA game with "hot rod" mechs (custom builds or refits) and I took it as an excuse to use my 3D printed Bull Shark model. Was fun as hell but at the end almost made me bummed because I won't really get to use that model in other types of play. What are the chances that mechs like the Bull Shark, Sun Spider, or Corsair get official tabletop rules at some point?
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Sep 21, 2022 16:37
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CGL's policy is not to use designs that they have to license, and since those originated in a video game they're owned by Microsoft.
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Sep 21, 2022 18:14
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Thats a shame because that big spider mech from Mechassault 2 is really cool
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Sep 21, 2022 18:19
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It wasn't but you were probably nine at the time
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Sep 21, 2022 18:33
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Defiance Industries posted:It wasn't but you were probably nine at the time I thought Kuritans were the fun police, not Steiners.
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Sep 21, 2022 18:52
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It's because the giant spider mech is not a quality Defiance Industries product
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Sep 21, 2022 19:01
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:I thought Kuritans were the fun police, not Steiners. I'll be the loving Fun NSA if it keeps force fields out of my game. gently caress Mech Assault.
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Sep 21, 2022 19:07
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Defiance Industries posted:I'll be the loving Fun NSA if it keeps force fields out of my game. gently caress Mech Assault. What about your Steiner Coliseum buddy? Huh?? Huh???
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Sep 21, 2022 19:19
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Steiner Coliseum isn't a force field, I don't know why people think that. It's a bunch of ballistic glass that they magnetize.
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Sep 21, 2022 19:21
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I can't imagine why CGL would be gunshy about licensing mechs designs....
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Sep 22, 2022 00:02
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I have painted a lance up for our local tournament. Pretty happy with how these came out!
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Sep 24, 2022 00:29
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Your cockpit glass looks very nice.
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Sep 24, 2022 00:52
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Yeah, those cockpits are impeccable. Dig the color scheme as well. Here’s some stuff I finished moments ago, a load of infantry as well as the two biggest mechs I have  Right now I still have an Orion and a Crusader to paint. Orion will be red like the Marauder II and Crusader will be black and gold like Atlas. Then I’ll get the Beginner Box and some tanks. I need more poo poo to paint!!!
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Sep 24, 2022 08:16
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So I played my second ever game of Classic today and I have some thoughts. Firstly, I really love it. The game is great fun and there are always decisions to be made and I'm always thinking when I'm looking at the board. While going through the motions and rolling everything can take a while, you don't spend a lot of time waiting on your opponent, and when you are something interesting is usually happening. Battletech has a lot of "old-school" tabletop design at it's heart, what with the billions of tables to roll on, but it feels really refined. It's pretty clear that while the core of the game is an engine designed in the 80s, the 30-some-odd years in the meantime have been used to perfect those tables and the rest of the mechanics. For example, in our first game, my opponent and I did a 1v1 of a Griffin against a Wolverine, both dancing around each other trying to get an advantage. Our hits ended up mirroring each other in the way they clustered in a really interesting way. Lastly, the Battlemaster rules, I love shooting 4 lasers and a bunch of missiles and machine guns into a mech before punching it right in the face and then PPCing a Shadow Hawk right in the ammo next turn. Game rules, mechs rule, can't wait to play again next weekend.
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Sep 26, 2022 07:27
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Hell yeah baby Have you already played with more than one mech per side? It really multiplies the things you mentioned. Movement, positioning and initiative are really the most fascinating things about BT in my opinion. It’s just so dynamic and almost ”cinematic”. Both players reacting to each other’s moves and trying to think one step further than the other at all times. FishFood posted:you don't spend a lot of time waiting on your opponent, and when you are something interesting is usually happening. I honestly find myself hoping for the opponent to score crits on my mechs, I want to see poo poo explode 
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Sep 26, 2022 11:10
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Yeah, our second game was 2v2 and I much preferred it. Winning initiative was still important but it wasn't the deal breaker that it seemed to be in a 1v1.
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Sep 27, 2022 23:37
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I've been binging Battletech lore videos lately as I've been carrying my new freeborn for several hours every night. It's at the point where I'm thinking of getting some mechs to paint at some point, and maybe even get some games in once hobby time is back on the table. Everything looks to be more or less out of stock around here, am I correct in guessing that the best idea in my situation would be to wait for the merc kickstarter and get my stuff through it?
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Sep 28, 2022 07:36
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lilljonas posted:I've been binging Battletech lore videos lately as I've been carrying my new freeborn for several hours every night. It's at the point where I'm thinking of getting some mechs to paint at some point, and maybe even get some games in once hobby time is back on the table. You can find Lance and Star packs off Catalyst or Amazon, there's still some stuff in stock. Might want to start with the Box Set for 8 mechs though.
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Sep 28, 2022 15:26
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Fortress Miniatures has a CGL section with Force Packs and loose minis. Aries Games has for whatever reason a metric buttload of Force Packs (on sale??) too!
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Sep 28, 2022 15:47
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