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mewse posted:Welcome back Sagebrush Thanks! I am mad that the Prusa XL is delayed again. Now it isn't supposed to ship until at least 2023. Where are my 5 extruders god dammit
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Sep 28, 2022 05:40
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Sagebrush posted:Also, school is back in session and in person, and some of my students have 3D printers at home and are bringing in parts they made themselves instead of using the printers in the lab. Some are decent, but others I'm like oh I remember when 3D printed parts looked like this, lol If you have the class time, have them print benchies and give them tuning advice. Could be a good learning experience for them.
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Sep 28, 2022 11:47
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Why are people asking about buying advice for the Prusa XL compared to multiple Ender 3s? They’re not serving the same needs. Build volume and convenience to get it or multi material printing using multiple toolheads are basically the only reasons to get the XL.
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Sep 28, 2022 14:39
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The Demilich posted:Learning is my game and hands on is perfect. The Demilich posted:That makes sense. OMG, 5k will get you a long way. Okay *takes deep breath* There are lots of options that will fit what you want, so preliminary comment: I'm going to name some brands and specific printers, but as long as you stick to the big names in printer manufacturers, you really can't go wrong. My recommendations are just based on what I use. FDM printers: As mentioned by others, Prusa Mk3+ fits your use case, but these days there is no shortage of FDM printers that 'just work.' I recommend you get a couple of Elegoo Neptune 3s and cut your teeth on that. They will 'just work' out of the box, are easy to assemble and super cheap. They are basically the same as Creality Ender 3s so anything for them will work on this. You could go Creailty too, but I think the N3s are cheaper - at least they were when I got them. These will get you started with terrain and will print almost anything you throw at it. Txarli Factory makes great gaming terrain for FDM, and they cut up stuff like volcanos that are too big to fit on a standard bed. you can also get a merchant agreement on their Patreon. Resin Printers: The market is quire an arms race right now with each manufacturer constantly one upping each other on features and resolution. This is A Good Thing for us. For Tabletop quality stuff, get any 4k printer from Phrozen, Elegoo, or Anycubic. They'll all work fine for you. Don't bother with anything under 4k - there's really no point if you have the dosh. (Pedantic note: 4k/5k/8k are all marketing terms. What you want is the smallest XY resolution, although 54 microns vs. 50 microns won't be a visible difference to the human eye. Just to make things more complicated, the new printers print much cleaner due to more accurate light sources, reducing bleed. That's essentially what these 8k printers have going for them over raw XY.) The size of the build plate will determine your throughput. Unlike FDM, printing one mini, and printing 15 minis takes the same time, just more resin. For specifics, I really like the new Phrozen printers. I have a Mega 8K, two Mighty 8Ks, and a Mini 8K. The Mighty 8K in particular is a very nice machine. Great interface, very reliable, and it comes with Wifi and a camera. I got the wifi working, but haven't played with the camera yet. Final notes: If you want to sell stuff legally, you will need to find companies that you can get a merchant agreement with. That's a whole 'nother wall of text, but basically look around on MyMiniFactory and Patreon, find poo poo you like and think will sell, and then sign up for the merchant level. Also, I'm not sure a woodshed is conducive to FDM printing, with all the dust. You'd probably want the printers isolated somehow with air filtering and temperature control.
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Sep 28, 2022 15:00
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^^ The Neptune 3 is also just an objectively better machine right out of the box, it comes with a lot of quality of life features that a basic Ender 3 or 3 Pro lacks at the price point. Silent driver board, a nice touch screen interface, automatic bed leveling, fully metal extruder mechanism, 2-ish inches more build height, a spring steel magnetic PEI bed sheet... it's just a well-rounded little machine, and they're still $210 straight from Elegoo. Even paying the Amazon Tax on them is still a decent deal at ~$250 for what you get, and what you also get there is the ability to just throw it back in the box and return it if something does happen to be wrong with it.
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Sep 28, 2022 16:02
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Yeah I got a Neptune 3 as my first printer and it's been pretty good so far. Only issue I've had is the z-offset was tricky to get right for me, I had to do some first layer test squares to get it perfect. Oh and it seems to be just not compatible with klipper right now, which sorta sucks because I was hoping to do some tinkering with that. (I spent a few days trying to make a custom config, but the screen and how the probe's wired up just isn't compatible) But yeah overall I've been happy with the results from it, and have already gone through a full spool printing stuff. BadMedic fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 16:51
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Sagebrush posted:If you're a hobbyist and you can wait five hours for a print, you can probably wait eight hours just as easily. This is dumb. 8 hours means 3 iterations a day. 5 hours is almost 5. Even for a hobbyist that is a *huge* difference. Sure there's also prints where I don't care about speed and/or will slow down for better quality, but a well-equipped coreXY will print better AND faster than a Prusa and with a larger volume. Sure it'll cost 2-3x as much, but then how much is your time worth?
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Sep 28, 2022 19:41
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ImplicitAssembler posted:This is dumb. 8 hours means 3 iterations a day. 5 hours is almost 5. Even for a hobbyist that is a *huge* difference. Seriously. "faster is better" almost as a rule. If you're printing at 50mm/s and .2mm layer height, ask. You should be going faster, someone here (if not me) will help you figure out why you can't go faster. I'm not going to go "core x-y or nothing" despite both my current active printers BEING core x-y. But you should really be able to print at your hot ends reasonable limits. Sometimes that's going to mean doing something to get better part cooling, but that's not the biggest hurdle to get over.
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Sep 28, 2022 20:07
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ImplicitAssembler posted:This is dumb. 8 hours means 3 iterations a day. 5 hours is almost 5. Even for a hobbyist that is a *huge* difference. The beauty of a 3D printer is that it isn't your time! You can start a print and walk away and go do other stuff. And don't be disingenuous about the "number of iterations" per day -- you aren't printing a new version as soon as the current one finishes. There's testing and redesigning involved, and for most people that's the slow part. You are really thinking of this from a production viewpoint, or at least as an extremely serious hobbyist. Anyway, I was not saying that speed is irrelevant -- I was saying it's overrated compared to reliability and ease of use. Too many people in this thread have forgotten what it's like to have literally no clue what you're doing with a 3D printer and how mystifying certain errors can be. Which is better: a printer that takes 8 hours, or a printer that takes 5 hours and is currently not doing anything because it's broken and you don't know how to fix it? I have seen many posts where people say "well, this generic no-name machine has a bigger bed and is supposedly faster, so that's obviously better, right?" No. Also nobody was comparing Prusas to more expensive CoreXYs. It was Prusas vs. Enders. Of course you can continue to spend more and get higher performance. That was my original point about Prusas in the first place (reliability is performance). Sheesh.
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Sep 28, 2022 20:20
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If it's fitment issues, then it's only a few minutes in fusion to adjust things. Major redesigns, sure, but even so, I'll often have other parts I can print while I work on those. Finally, as has been re-hashed and proven here before, Enders, etc are far more reliable now that you give them credit for and Prusas not as reliable as you like to pretend.
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Sep 28, 2022 20:51
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I defend ender 3s and generally recommend the V2 to new users non stop, but I recommended the Prusa if the OP could afford it since it seems like a easier platform to learn on and it will be their first printer. I feel like everyone's first printer gets the most tinkering and accidental abuse, but Prusas tend to have fewer recommended upgrades you can waste time printing. There's so much dumb stuff added to my monoprice maker select. It's got a bent steel frame and I put threaded rods on from the top to the front to make it more solid because hey, recommended mods!
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Sep 28, 2022 20:59
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Unless your dead set, I still think a Prusa is an insane recommendation for a first printer. Spend $200 on something more entry level to see if you even enjoy the hobby first. Worst case you have a back up printer to dick around with when you inevitably upgrade
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Sep 29, 2022 00:57
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Alternate theory: If you are more interested in 3d printing than in tinkering with 3d printers than avoid the cheap options as a first printer.
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Sep 29, 2022 01:01
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NewFatMike posted:Why are people asking about buying advice for the Prusa XL compared to multiple Ender 3s? They’re not serving the same needs. Is there any information on the tool heads that the XL will accept, like will you be able to have different size diameters? I'm not interested in printing with multiple materials but I'd like the convenience of having different diameters available without having to physically swap toolheads out depending on whether I'm printing a large or small part that day.
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Sep 29, 2022 01:49
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w00tmonger posted:Unless your dead set, I still think a Prusa is an insane recommendation for a first printer. I kind of agree with this, as much as I love my mk3s. I think you really need to see if you like the hobby at all first, and starting a company around it before ever printing is definitely a massive leap of faith! Best of luck with it though, start with some ender 3 v2s or ender s1, possibly even the anycubic kobra (the direct drive one) I think has a ton of potential. Then if you put klipper on it you can get it printing just as fast as a mk3s! That's what I did with my ender 3 v2 and it prints excellent now. Granted the mk3s will most likely require less maintenance overall from my experience, but it's not immune to it. I think it's pretty telling how much you will like the hobby by how willing you are to fix your own technical problems and tinker. I vote a cheaper printer to start out before diving all in! Back to the anycubic kobra it has inductive leveling probe, flex pei bed, direct drive extruder, touch screen for 260 seems like a great deal! https://www.anycubic.com/products/kobra?utm_source=yt&utm_medium=SEMKB01&utm_campaign=SEMKB01&utm_id=SEMKB01 I also backed the Bambu Labs X1C with AMS (4 color filament changer) and with the kind of quality and speed I'm getting from that it's going to be hard for me to recommend the mk3s to anyone unless they drop the price. I know it's a few hundred dollars more but it's extremely impressive so far and I'm really enjoying it! Here's some of my first multimaterial prints!  
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Sep 29, 2022 02:06
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I think if you want to run a print farm to sell things then the easiest option is resin printers. I know there is a lot more to them in terms of clean-up, alcohol, etc... but I think the market is a lot easier to break into. There were numerous shops I was using on Etsy to buy stuff prior to getting my own printer, and it was all resin 3d printers. All the stuff I ever purchased looked great and I was really happy with it, even now that I can see signs of rushing on some of the pieces. The reason I think resin printers would be easier is because there are significantly fewer options to set, and while there is a lot of different resin available, getting a resin printer dialed in is not very hard. And if you are doing minis you can get a big plate printer like the Saturn 2 to do a whole squad/vehicles on, and then a few smaller plate printers to do individual pieces on, and the print time is pretty quick in the end. The wash and cure stations take significantly less time than the print, so you could have 4 or 5 printers and only one wash/cure station and be fine. Especially if you staggered your print end times. I believe resin printers also use less electricity, so running 4 resin printers 140 hours a week will cost less than the 4 fdm printers, and this could be like 100-200 a month difference depending on electricity rates and how many printers. Miniatures also are expensive from big companies, so the ceiling on pricing is good. Look around at etsy shops for minis and see the prices for the ones you plan on purchasing licenses for to get a feel for how that would play out. I think Fantastic Rocks and Terrain have a set up where it is just 25 dollars a month to have a license for all their stuff. You could probably sell a set of 5 terrain pieces from them for 15-25 dollars, and you could probably get 5 sets or more out of a bottle of resin. Resin has a better conversion rate of cost per material to sales dollars than FDM, and time. I made a really, really nice big terrain piece from Tabletop Terrain but it took about 60 hours of 1 printer, about a whole roll of filament (20 bucks) and even though the piece was super big and nice, I think maybe 80 bucks to 100 bucks is best I could get for it. In that same 60 hours you might be able to turn two 35 dollar bottles of resin and 15 dollars of other supplies into 275-400 worth of minis.
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Sep 29, 2022 02:17
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Opinionated posted:I kind of agree with this, as much as I love my mk3s. I think you really need to see if you like the hobby at all first, and starting a company around it before ever printing is definitely a massive leap of faith! Best of luck with it though, start with some ender 3 v2s or ender s1, possibly even the anycubic kobra (the direct drive one) I think has a ton of potential. Then if you put klipper on it you can get it printing just as fast as a mk3s! That's what I did with my ender 3 v2 and it prints excellent now. Love how that came out! Not to double post, but I have a direct drive anycubic Kobra and think it is pretty good. My father wanted to get into 3D printing so I purchased him an Elegoo Neptune 3. I had some issues getting mine to make good prints, and he was able to get his going right away. I have spent a lot of time trying to dial mine in exactly, and my Dad seems to consistently print better looking stuff. This is totally anecdotal, of course, but the Neptune 3 might be a good option. I am not exactly sure what the benefit of the direct drive is.
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Sep 29, 2022 02:19
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I'm loving the discussion and I value the input. I've also been looking at the Anycubic Kobra. It reminds me of the anycubic photon dlp ultra, which is what initially got me really interested in resin printing, and then I just didn't hear anything about that specific model ever again! Hogwash super confusing, the printer had a kickstarter and everything.
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Sep 29, 2022 02:54
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Listerine posted:Is there any information on the tool heads that the XL will accept, like will you be able to have different size diameters? I'm not interested in printing with multiple materials but I'd like the convenience of having different diameters available without having to physically swap toolheads out depending on whether I'm printing a large or small part that day. So far the best information I’ve got is that it’ll all use the Prusa Nextruder direct drive tool head. Based on the blog posts, it’s $500 per tool head on top of the original, which is in keeping with the cost of a DIY CoreXY system called the Jubilee ($300 in parts). I have to imagine that different size nozzles will be totally possible — it’s trivial on the traditional CNC machining side and not fundamentally different from a different material. Changing tool heads is an old M code (M06 T# where the number is the named tool number in your CAM tool crib). In CAM your feeds and speeds are all indicated in your G code, so I guess the…feeds and heats would come through the same, same as changing material. Keep in mind, though, that each tool head will have its own filament line, so plan on keeping a separate filament spool for each head.
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Sep 29, 2022 03:10
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Listerine posted:Is there any information on the tool heads that the XL will accept, like will you be able to have different size diameters? I'm not interested in printing with multiple materials but I'd like the convenience of having different diameters available without having to physically swap toolheads out depending on whether I'm printing a large or small part that day. Just install an E3D Revo if that's what you want IMO. Honest-to-gosh tool-less quick change tips.
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Sep 29, 2022 05:29
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Opinionated posted:I also backed the Bambu Labs X1C with AMS (4 color filament changer) and with the kind of quality and speed I'm getting from that it's going to be hard for me to recommend the mk3s to anyone unless they drop the price. I know it's a few hundred dollars more but it's extremely impressive so far and I'm really enjoying it! That was the comment from a friend who had a farm of MK3s, and got a Bambu. The stock print settings were just that good that print in place multi-material prints just worked with good clean tolerances and lines. For what you pay, baring the cloud service possibly not being resolved for on-premises only printing, it's a decent printer. It's good enough that he's selling his many MK3s.
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Sep 29, 2022 05:40
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quote:Bambu X1 poo poo  Wow, compared to the Prusa XL, it looks like a much better printer that doesn't have to be assembled that is half the price and will come in a month or two vs a year from now.Byyyeyyyeyee Prusa Smug Face... *cancels XL pre-order* (poo poo, I JUST got two N3s  )E: how is their filament? Doctor Zero fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Sep 29, 2022 |
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Sep 29, 2022 15:57
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It looks like a cool printer for sure, but I still firmly believe that toolchanging is the correct way to do multiple materials, not filament swapping.
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Sep 29, 2022 16:10
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is water soluble filament still an absolute nightmare to work with?
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Sep 29, 2022 16:22
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Deviant posted:is water soluble filament still an absolute nightmare to work with? I have never heard of that and it sounds like a nightmare. What is the use case?
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Sep 29, 2022 16:35
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Support materials that can build a solid interface right up against the part, or fill internal voids, while still being easily removable.
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Sep 29, 2022 16:36
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The Demilich posted:I'm loving the discussion and I value the input. I've also been looking at the Anycubic Kobra. It reminds me of the anycubic photon dlp ultra, which is what initially got me really interested in resin printing, and then I just didn't hear anything about that specific model ever again! Hogwash super confusing, the printer had a kickstarter and everything. There's a new anycubic DLP printer. I really want one but the price is insane. Pretty much any resin printers quality is amazing, and for the cost I could buy 2-3 Saturn 2's for like 6 times the print area
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Sep 29, 2022 16:40
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Doctor Zero posted:E: how is their filament? I like the quality of the filament but the first roll that I bought didn't feed right in my AMS unit so I have to respool it all... I do like their idea of just buying filament without the spool but believe the price should reflect that better. I have another reload of filament so I'm hoping that it doesn't do the same thing, otherwise I'll probably steer clear until they get some of the issues worked out. IncredibleIgloo posted:Love how that came out! Thanks!
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Sep 29, 2022 16:43
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Deviant posted:is water soluble filament still an absolute nightmare to work with? Yes. It's not only unbelievably hygroscopic but it gets sticky and horrible very quickly as a result. The only reason to use it is if you have a dual extrusion system and you have a part that requires internal supports and it's literally the only option to make the part work. And that's kind of rare honestly.
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Sep 29, 2022 16:46
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One thing I don't get about the Bambu X1, despite it looking very interesting in a lot of regards: Why does it claim to be able to do 16 colour printing? I always assumed it just used 1 filament at a time, then purged and swapped, but to get 16 it'd need to be able to splice them together, like those external multimaterial-things you can buy. Otherwise, it is certainly pretty interesting if the units going out now are good. It's incredibly tempting to go for one, though it'll have to be next year probably. Also I guess once it's in enough hands it'll be possible to hear more about issues it might have, reliability, part swapping, etc etc.
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Sep 29, 2022 17:09
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SubNat posted:One thing I don't get about the Bambu X1, despite it looking very interesting in a lot of regards: Why does it claim to be able to do 16 colour printing? It has chainable multi material units. So if you feed 4 of them into a 5th multiplexer, there's your 16
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Sep 29, 2022 17:11
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Sagebrush posted:It looks like a cool printer for sure, but I still firmly believe that toolchanging is the correct way to do multiple materials, not filament swapping. If you don't mind me asking, why is tool changing significantly better for multiple materials? I've been eyeing multi material for my second printer lately and filament swapping seemed like the easier approach
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Sep 29, 2022 17:21
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Serenade posted:If you don't mind me asking, why is tool changing significantly better for multiple materials? I've been eyeing multi material for my second printer lately and filament swapping seemed like the easier approach No need to purge is the big one
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Sep 29, 2022 17:30
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Serenade posted:If you don't mind me asking, why is tool changing significantly better for multiple materials? I've been eyeing multi material for my second printer lately and filament swapping seemed like the easier approach Some purged filament for every change, since you need a clean nozzle. And then there's possibly multiple changes per layer. Imagine printing with 3 colours, and needing to purge the nozzle 3 times every layer, it quickly adds up. Which you avoid entirely when each toolhead only uses 1 filament, since there's no need to purge. It's more technically complex and parts-expensive, but less wasteful, basically. w00tmonger posted:It has chainable multi material units. So if you feed 4 of them into a 5th multiplexer, there's your 16 Aha, I guess it's a bit more neat than I gave it credit. I really do hope it's enough of a success to shift price points in the market around a bit.
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Sep 29, 2022 17:31
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Filament report! Green Gate 3D sells recycled PETG. It appears to be pre-consumer recycling. Prints fine. Can't see a difference between it and the sample I got from Polymaker. They also included a hand-written thank-you note for ordering from them. And one of the spools had a QR code to a page explaining how they did this big spool buyback thing at some event somewhere, so the spool was actually re-used, which I though was very cool.
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Sep 29, 2022 17:32
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Serenade posted:If you don't mind me asking, why is tool changing significantly better for multiple materials? I've been eyeing multi material for my second printer lately and filament swapping seemed like the easier approach No purge is massive, huge amount of material wasted. The really cool thing though is you can do true multi materi instead of just multi-color. One head can be flexi tpu, one can be pla, etc with different heating requirements etc
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Sep 29, 2022 18:08
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Serenade posted:If you don't mind me asking, why is tool changing significantly better for multiple materials? I've been eyeing multi material for my second printer lately and filament swapping seemed like the easier approach You can't really truly do multi material by filament swapping because printing in multi materials (not just different colors of the same material) requires different hot end temperatures. Adding a cooldown/heatup to every filament swap would be  So a filament swapping approach doesn't allow printing a part in (for example) PC with TPU corners. But you could in theory do that with different tool heads, each with their own filament under their own ideal conditions. E: hah beaten
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Sep 29, 2022 18:11
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These are great answers, thank you all. In particular, the use case of multi material with TPU and not-TPU is the case I am most interested in. Living hinges or expected bump zones. Might be worth factoring in a tool changer early rather than retrofit one then.
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Sep 29, 2022 18:21
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On a slightly different note, a colleague brought in a resin printer (One of the ~400$ish Elegoos) to work to showcase it a bit, and claimed that the water washable resin he used was un-stinky enough that he could run it in his living room. Said claim couldn't be challenged/tested because he brought the wrong kind with him. Is there any truth to that, or does it just sound like typical 'downplay any issues with my shiny new toy' talk? I know there are a couple goons in this thread with fancy resin printers. The machine itself had a tiny bar-shaped usb fan + charcoal filter, which probably helps cut down on odour a little bit, but looking up the resin itself (eSun), the instructions are very clear that you should treat it with respect (and gloves, and a mask, and also goggles.) just like any other resin. (While also marketing itself a 'low odour'.)
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Sep 29, 2022 18:50
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The Eyes Have It posted:Adding a cooldown/heatup to every filament swap would be I was beta testing a E3D hotend that could easily handle that without any major time delay.
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Sep 29, 2022 19:00
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