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Senor P. posted:-Is it worth trying to future proof? a lot of states have regulations banning HFCs, and if the EPA AIM regulation gets promulgated HFOs will (and already have started to) replace HFC refrigerants. They are not generally interchangeable, and a new system would have to be designed to be used with HFOs.
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Sep 29, 2022 23:07
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Just looking for general opinions as I wait for the HVAC company to come out since I noticed this today. Single stage oil boiler from 1988 is leaking water. The water heater is basically inside the blue box itself as I understand it and holds ~10 gallons or so if I remember correctly. On the side there’s the mixing valve with some corroded pipes. Those were on the list to fox but they do not appear to be causing the leak. The leak is in the lower right portion coming somewhere behind the blue sheet metal. I have the aluminum foil acting as a drip tray. It’s a slow drip-maybe 1 drip every 2 minutes, but it’s there. From what I can see, the bladder/water reservoir might be made from cast iron and appears wasted in several areas near the drip. The only thing I can’t tell is where the leak starts. I’m concerned about removing any of the sheet metal to try and get a better look. Based on the admittedly limited information/any thoughts? It doesn’t look like the leak is linked to any piping so I’m concerned it’s the boiler/water reservoir itself which I would assume the entire unit might need replaced.   The leak isn’t coming from that valve either. You can see all the wastage near the pipes on the block itself so I’m wondering if it’s somewhere around there or not. Again, not sure that’s a replaceable part or not.
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Oct 1, 2022 13:36
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we have separate central AC and hydronic baseboard systems, now that we are getting into the shoulder months and headed towards the heating season i remember that besides closing the vents my hvac guy recommended covering the returns - is there any consensus on what to get for return covers? our hvac guy said just throw a piece of cut cardboard in there but i have also seen magnetic covers and other options. we have a retrofit ac in an old house where the air handler feeds down from the attic to two floors.
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Oct 1, 2022 14:31
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nwin posted:I’m concerned about removing any of the sheet metal to try and get a better look. Then there's not a whole lot you're going to figure out. Wait for the professional you called to get there. Looks like amateur plumbing work - somebody didn't wipe the flux off the soldered joints and they're all a mess. Potentially bad enough to merit replacing. Mad Wack posted:we have separate central AC and hydronic baseboard systems, now that we are getting into the shoulder months and headed towards the heating season i remember that besides closing the vents my hvac guy recommended covering the returns - is there any consensus on what to get for return covers? our hvac guy said just throw a piece of cut cardboard in there but i have also seen magnetic covers and other options. we have a retrofit ac in an old house where the air handler feeds down from the attic to two floors. I don't know why this was recommended to you but if you really want to cover the returns just buy a roll of magnetic sign stock from amazon or something in whatever color you want and cut it to fit.
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Oct 1, 2022 16:04
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Motronic posted:Then there's not a whole lot you're going to figure out. Wait for the professional you called to get there. Yeah they’re coming out Thursday-soonest they can get here given we still have hot water. I’ve got a drip cup underneath it and I guess I’ll wait to see what they say. Edit: a couple hvac techs on Reddit are saying it could just be condensation since I’m not running the heat yet and just using it for hot water. It’s 50 outside today so that seems possible. I figure I could turn the heat on and see if the dripping stops. nwin fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Oct 1, 2022 |
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Oct 1, 2022 16:26
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nwin posted:Yeah they’re coming out Thursday-soonest they can get here given we still have hot water. I’ve got a drip cup underneath it and I guess I’ll wait to see what they say. Just by age alone I'd think you want to start considering replacement... I dont think these were really made to last 35 years?
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Oct 1, 2022 17:45
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devicenull posted:Just by age alone I'd think you want to start considering replacement... I dont think these were really made to last 35 years? Oil furnaces are stupid easy to service, most of the parts that go bad are commodity items that are readily available and haven't changed, and there's absolutely no reason to throw something like that in a landfill just because "its old". Mine is older than that and still absolutely fine.
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Oct 1, 2022 18:05
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They can last about forever, assuming that: They are installed correctly. They run within design parameters of run cycle time, temperature, and water quality. They are cleaned/serviced yearly. From the pictures, budget a replacement.
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Oct 1, 2022 20:06
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MRC48B posted:They can last about forever, assuming that: It’s in the works. I turned the heat on to see if that would have any effect and boom-no more leak. So I’m thinking it was condensation. Still, I know they can last a long time but I’m wary, especially with two little kids in the house. My wife and I can bundle up no problem but I’m more concerned about the 1 and 4 year old. It’s our first year in the house (and this will be the first winter), so I’m trying to see how it does. I had maintenance done in July and they said the corrosion on the pipes needs addressed at some point, but it’s not urgent. Ideally I can kick the can until next spring and maybe we’ll see some of the prices lower a bit. My oil tank actually started leaking a month ago so I had to bite the bullet on replacing that, but I’m glad I caught it when I did.
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Oct 1, 2022 20:12
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Motronic posted:Oil furnaces are stupid easy to service, most of the parts that go bad are commodity items that are readily available and haven't changed, and there's absolutely no reason to throw something like that in a landfill just because "its old". Easy to service assuming you can find service! There's like two companies where my parents are that can do it, and a guy from one of them spent part of the time servicing the furnace loving around with the safe in the basement. The other place will only service furnaces from like October to April. That's not an equipment problem though. It's a people and region problem. 
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Oct 1, 2022 20:50
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I assume if your propane furnace exhaust has a giant hole in it you should not run it yea?
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Oct 2, 2022 01:10
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Comrade Gritty posted:I assume if your propane furnace exhaust has a giant hole in it you should not run it yea? Well, if you like living then definitely don't run it...
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Oct 2, 2022 01:19
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If you keep it running, you can save a bundle in lifetime heating costs.
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Oct 3, 2022 19:59
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Comrade Gritty posted:I assume if your propane furnace exhaust has a giant hole in it you should not run it yea? Comrade Gritty you have to wake up and get out of the house
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Oct 3, 2022 20:11
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The HVAC guy was able to swing by today and get it fixed up (at least temporarily, they're reworking all the ducts in the next few weeks and will clean it up more then). It was fun watching him take it apart, and the metal just crumbling and falling apart as he's trying to grab ahold of it to disconnect it from the rest of the vent.  But now it's got shiny new venting (for the most part, he reused one section that wasn't corroded much because they don't keep much flue piping on their service trucks he said, and it only needed to last for a few weeks till the installer trucks show up to redo the duct work) and presumably I am now much less likely to die. 
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Oct 3, 2022 20:17
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Comrade Gritty posted:The HVAC guy was able to swing by today and get it fixed up (at least temporarily, they're reworking all the ducts in the next few weeks and will clean it up more then). That looks like a lot of corrosion on what appears to be a newer furnace. Is it due to the long horizontal run so the condensate could just settle on the bottom of the pipe?
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Oct 3, 2022 20:19
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Yooper posted:That looks like a lot of corrosion on what appears to be a newer furnace. Is it due to the long horizontal run so the condensate could just settle on the bottom of the pipe? The furnace was installed in Nov 2017, but if memory serves me right they reused most of the pipe, certainly the parts that were extremely corroded and literally falling apart to the touch were original to the house in 2003. I dunno why it corroded though.
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Oct 3, 2022 20:26
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Comrade Gritty posted:The furnace was installed in Nov 2017, but if memory serves me right they reused most of the pipe, certainly the parts that were extremely corroded and literally falling apart to the touch were original to the house in 2003. I dunno why it corroded though. Yooper posted:due to the long horizontal run so the condensate could just settle on the bottom of the pipe
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Oct 3, 2022 23:33
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Yeah, that. People don't realize it because it seems like it's "just water" but even if it's just CO2 and water, that forms carbonic acid in solution, and if there's any real sulfur content in the natural gas in your area, you'll have dilute sulfuric acid in there too. The carbonic acid is much weaker than the sulfuric, obviously. You really don't want the flue gases condensing in the mild steel part of the exhaust system. There's a reason super high efficiency recondensing units that exhaust below boiling point typically spec PVC in the install guide (at least, all the ones I've read do.)
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Oct 5, 2022 02:24
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I gave a duct running to my kitchen on the first floor directly through the ceiling of an unvented basement room. If I added a vent to the basement room, better to do it directly below the kitchen vent or should I do it offset?
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Oct 5, 2022 04:25
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Two potentially basic dumb dumb questions for a house in Minnesota staring down the barrel of impending winter: We had our furnace, AC, and coils replaced in fall of 2015. I've kept up on filter replacement with a calendar reminder, but have done no additional maintenance outside of that. Is there any value to contacting the installer to inspect our 7 year old system to make sure everything is still on the level? We haven't had any issues or noticeable loss of performance, but we have no alternative heat sources, so an unexpected furnace outage in January is a serious threat. The system in question is Lennox: Furnace - SL280UH070V36A-03 AC - XC17-024-230-08 Coils - C33-38A-2 Coil/3+Ton/Uncased (no idea if this matters, it's on the warranty info, though) Second, our iComfort thermostat provided at install has lost all ability to properly keep track of time. Like, set it and it will be off by multiple hours within a week inability to keep track of time. My wife works odd hours and we're accustomed to setting it manually anyway, so losing the schedule doesn't really matter to us. That said, should I consider this an indication it is at a point where a more serious failure is imminent and it needs to be replaced?
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Oct 5, 2022 20:47
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So you've let a brand new system go completely unmaintained other than filter changes for 7 years? Yes, it's time to get it serviced. Didn't they tell you annual service was required to keep your warranty? And there's no telling what that symptom may lead to with your thermostat, but it's obviously not functioning properly and should be replaced.
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Oct 5, 2022 21:12
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That's the gist of it, yeah. Nothing in the warranty requirements says anything about maintenance; just that it had to be originally installed by a licensed installer in a residential application. The only mention of maintenance is "Did you know... Regular system maintenance is recommended for optimum performance". Either way, appointment request sent.
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Oct 5, 2022 21:43
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I find value in getting my AC and Furnace checked out once a year by a professional. Especially with having natural gas furnaces. I think it's worth the money and peace of mind having a pro check everything out and make sure it's all working properly and my children won't die of carbon monoxide poisoning. I'm moderately handy and don't really worry about the AC side of things, but I don't mess with gas or the furnace part of the system.
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Oct 5, 2022 21:58
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What does this annual service entail when done properly? My old landlord always hired this guy who would come and spray the condenser coils with some weird cleaner that would pool at the bottom and make the fins fall off and cause leaks.
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Oct 5, 2022 22:11
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slurm posted:What does this annual service entail when done properly? My old landlord always hired this guy who would come and spray the condenser coils with some weird cleaner that would pool at the bottom and make the fins fall off and cause leaks. Well, don't hire that guy. He was using the wrong cleaner, most likely a coil cleaner that was not safe for microchannel/aluminum and that's what you had. So yes, cleaning the inside coils is part of it. Also cleaning the condensate drain as well as cleaning the compressor. Then you have the various fossil fuel items, not too many for gas, changing nozzles/filters/checking and cleaning ignitors for oil. Potentially pulling and cleaning smoke pipes. Then there's the general inspection while all of this is going on. Someone who knows what this stuff should look like making sure it looks sounds and feels like that. And a combustion test. Checking combustion temperature and draft pressure, etc gives someone who knows how to do this a very good idea of overall system health and if something is in need of repair or adjustment.
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Oct 5, 2022 22:15
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Honestly I had most of that post typed out before I looked back and realized the thing was 7 years old already. I thought it was more recent than that. At this point I figure gently caress it, I'll have them back out in the spring to look at the AC as well. e: Oops, asked and answered while I got distracted.
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Oct 5, 2022 22:18
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I definitely need to learn more about natural gas equipment, it's such a mystery to me.
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Oct 5, 2022 22:18
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This seems like the best place to discuss kitchen ventilation. I am trying to replace a 1980s Jenn Air cooktop with downdraft. I am trying to figure out alternatives to downdraft. Hoods without duct work seem kind of dumb. Venting via exterior wall and not roof seems like it would be a great way to get draft in the kitchen. Am I horribly wrong on either of these?
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Oct 7, 2022 23:31
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Calidus posted:This seems like the best place to discuss kitchen ventilation. I am trying to replace a 1980s Jenn Air cooktop with downdraft. I am trying to figure out alternatives to downdraft. Hoods without duct work seem kind of dumb. Venting via exterior wall and not roof seems like it would be a great way to get draft in the kitchen. You're not horribly wrong, but exterior venting is the gold standard and recirculating hoods are for rental apartments. Downdraft is a compromise/joke for people who largely only reheat food. In commercial settings there are systems to heat the make up air coming in to replace what the hood is pulling out, but like....that's not a thing you have in your house. It's loud, it's expensive to run, etc. You want an exterior vented full depth hood for your residential stove. It's that simple. Spend the money to get one that is quiet and properly matched to your stoves output. Yes, it will drag cold air in though wherever it the leakiest parts of your house. That is okay. You want the combustion exhaust out of your home. I assure you it's totally worth it to heat/cool that air that got dragged back in rather than breathing your stove leftovers.
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Oct 7, 2022 23:41
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Not to mention that the hood is at least pulling waste air out, not hot air you're trying to use for cooking. Watching the flames on the downdraft gas stove which was installed in my parents house by the previous owner get visibly sucked into the void was really something else. It also had a range hood which was much newer (but still old.)
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Oct 7, 2022 23:44
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I want induction, which is making me wonder if I could get way with a ductless system or reuse the existing downdraft duct work. I am not thrilled about the idea of putting a hole/vent in my west facing brick wall. If I do I am thinking cabinets mount hood, duct work through the cabinet and in the soffit. Is there anything wrong with only having 18” of duct work between the hood and vent?
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Oct 8, 2022 00:13
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You might actually get the rated efficiency and sound level of the unit. Sounds pretty bad to me.
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Oct 8, 2022 00:15
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Calidus posted:I want induction, which is making me wonder if I could get way with a ductless system or reuse the existing downdraft duct work. I am not thrilled about the idea of putting a hole/vent in my west facing brick wall. If I do I am thinking cabinets mount hood, duct work through the cabinet and in the soffit. Is there anything wrong with only having 18” of duct work between the hood and vent? No. I think you may have been reading the articles about how gas stoves are so bad for you. All of these "studies" are largely bullshit. Don't worry about the combustion products of your cooking fuel only. Worry about the combustion products and humidity of your food while it's cooking too. If you have an appropriate and sufficient hood for the latter you don't need to worry about the former. FYI, all of those studies were boiling water IIRC. I know I do more than boil water when I'm cooking. So even with an induction stove I know I want to move some poo poo air right the hell out of my living space.
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Oct 8, 2022 00:16
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Induction has other advantages like my kid has get creative to burn down my house but it also means I don’t have pay a plumber. I guess I have to decide if I want to rent a SDS drill or just pay someone.
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Oct 8, 2022 00:54
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Calidus posted:Induction has other advantages like my kid has get creative to burn down my house but it also means I don’t have pay a plumber. I guess I have to decide if I want to rent a SDS drill or just pay someone. Don't get me wrong: induction is awesome, but it just has nothing to do with your cooking ventilation needs. Those remain the same regardless of fuel when we're already talking about properly installed and maintained equipment. I've been cooking on gas my whole life mostly, so for some thing it's just my comfort zone. But I want a range that has a couple of big honkin induction burners for things that involve large pots of water as well as gas for the stuff that I'm used to cooking that way. In the end, my next stove will just likely be all induction and I'l just have to learn how to look at the knob rather than the height of the flame for temperature control. Motronic fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Oct 8, 2022 |
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Oct 8, 2022 01:21
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Motronic posted:All of these "studies" are largely bullshit. Don't worry about the combustion products of your cooking fuel only. Worry about the combustion products and humidity of your food while it's cooking too. If you have an appropriate and sufficient hood for the latter you don't need to worry about the former. Do you have scientific literature to validate that the studies are bullshit? I know the AGA likes to claim such, but a number of groups have been studying NO2 and CO releases during "normal" cooking and found significant increases, up to 3-4x the background levels prior. And the studies have included both range and oven cooking activities. Of course having proper venting goes a long way to mitigate that, but if someone has young children, it is likely very prudent to ditch the gas range/oven and move to electric.
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Oct 8, 2022 05:47
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Say I go head and put in a nice over range hood. This how leaves me with the downdraft duct work running in the floor between my basement and kitchen. Could I reuse that to make a negative pressure room in my basement the move my wood working stuff down there? I have kept all my woodworking stuff in far because I don’t want my HVAC system dealing with the dust. We spent some $$$ and added a humidifier, HEPA filters and UV scrubber a back in 2019.
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Oct 8, 2022 16:01
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SourKraut posted:Do you have scientific literature to validate that the studies are bullshit? I know the AGA likes to claim such, but a number of groups have been studying NO2 and CO releases during "normal" cooking and found significant increases, up to 3-4x the background levels prior. And the studies have included both range and oven cooking activities. You want me to scientifically disprove studies with terrible methodology that are being used as scare tactics? No, I don't have that. But go read the actual studies and tell me how rigorous you think they are. It's not even clear from their conclusions that they are talking about malfunctioning equipment or stoves in good repair. Then there's also this whole last century or so of people cooking indoors with natural gas and propane without any epidemic diseases tied to it whatsoever.......
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Oct 8, 2022 16:10
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Motronic posted:You want me to scientifically disprove studies with terrible methodology that are being used as scare tactics? No, I don't have that. But go read the actual studies and tell me how rigorous you think they are. It's not even clear from their conclusions that they are talking about malfunctioning equipment or stoves in good repair. The EPA certainly believes it's a concern, and I would hope that everyone recognizes how slow the EPA is to react and update guidance on potential COCs. But the impact of NO2 on developing children is well known at this point , and while NO2, PM10 and PM2.5 exposures aren't likely to cause allergy or asthma, it definitely can have significant exacerbation for children who may have existing or genetic predisposition to them. I wouldn't necessarily trust every study that appears to establish a causal link, and there are certainly a lot of factors that need to be accounted for, as you said, but they have shown that combustion-related byproducts can be retained for several hours post-combustion, which makes it all the more important to have sufficient ventilation such as a properly-sized range hood, although studies have indicated that you need ventilation from both the range hood and ideally the overall home, since common residential range hoods have fairly poor capture efficiencies. All of this seems like common sense, right? Especially because it has been observed that it's about a 2:1 ratio for PM 2.5 production for gas vs. electric, though it's also still an argument for ventilation via any method used and changing habits used. But trying to hand wave any concerns away as being bullshit or due to "malfunctioning equipment" alone, seems to be a poor stance to take, especially when there are known to be exposure risk concerns amongst various population groups, many of whom may not be able to simply change where they live or swap out appliances easily, to address potential risk factors. And full disclosure: I am involved in ASTM and ASCE for standards setting, so while I fully agree that studies need to be doing their due diligence in properly accounting for factors external to what is being evaluated, there is plenty of scientific research to support the argument outside of the studies you are probably looking at. Motronic posted:Then there's also this whole last century or so of people cooking indoors with natural gas and propane without any epidemic diseases tied to it whatsoever....... And honestly, 100 years ago, just as it is today worldwide, most in the US were using various forms of biomass for cooking (wood, coal, etc.), and I'm sure you know the risks and challenges associated with more-traditional forms of cooking, as well as the health impacts involved. But yes, if you are going to handwave away every and all study and argument, be prepared to defend it and don't be a smug "I know everything' poster.
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Oct 8, 2022 17:55
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