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chocolateTHUNDER posted:The vita chambers in BioShock never bothered me because I just quick saved/ quick loaded instead. I mean really if you're using quicksave and quickload you don't have any right complaining about vita chambers and Nexus points lmao
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Sep 29, 2022 20:00
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SeANMcBAY posted:drat right. I’d play a classic doom mod that put one in. Samsara is still one of my favourite mods, it lets you play as Quake guy, Duke Nukem, Marathon dude, etc... On Doom maps. Quake Ranger weapons are great since you can bounce grenades around corners. Wondering if Samsara+Voxel Doom would work well (at least in vanilla and sigil maps).
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Sep 29, 2022 20:44
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The Kins posted:The Quake Brutalist Jam is out, bringing with it 35 testamonies to cold concrete. I'm playing this in the Quake remaster and I've run into an odd issue. After starting a new game, the esc key stops working, so I can't pause and have to alt+f4 to quit. Doesn't happen if I load a save from the main menu though.
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Sep 29, 2022 22:08
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IronicDongz posted:Just because you're saving manually doesn't nessecarily mean you're savescumming. There's not a huge difference between hitting F5 once in a while and an automatic checkpoint system. Yes, but let's be honest with ourselves. Most people are hammering quicksave every 30 seconds.
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Sep 30, 2022 00:44
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:The vita chambers in BioShock never bothered me because I just quick saved/ quick loaded instead. I mean really if you're using quicksave and quickload you don't have any right complaining about vita chambers and Nexus points lmao IronicDongz posted:Just because you're saving manually doesn't nessecarily mean you're savescumming. There's not a huge difference between hitting F5 once in a while and an automatic checkpoint system. I think a key difference here is that in games like System Shock 2 & Bioshock, enemies perpetually respawn and repopulate areas. So you may respawn on death (possibly for a fee), but the area you died in can be repopulated with enemies you previously killed. In a way, it can "undo" some of the progress you had made. In Prodeus, there is no fee and everything you killed stays dead from the moment your HP hits "0", so you effectively have infinite health; there's nothing to counterbalance the fact that you can die over and over again without losing a single point of progress.
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Sep 30, 2022 00:44
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I thought about going back to Prodeus tonight and I just don't think it's going to be much fun without any real stakes on these later levels. I did Doom Eternal on Nightmare and loved every second even though I died a lot because death was potentially a big setback without being actual lost progress, so seeing that checkpoint message was a satisfying feeling. The map editor is kind of lacking too. I can't fault them too much for this because making your own tools is hard and lovely and they obviously made it do enough to make the actual game levels, but coming from other 3D tools there's a lot of effort needed to work around limitations that other tools that I've used don't have. I think I'm going to try to get into Quake mapping again.
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Sep 30, 2022 00:49
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Volte posted:I did Doom Eternal on Nightmare and loved every second even though I died a lot because death was potentially a big setback without being actual lost progress, so seeing that checkpoint message was a satisfying feeling. I totally get what you're saying. I know D:E wasn't for everybody, but it definitely hit the right notes for me personally. On Nightmare it was difficult but doable, exhausting but rewarding. When you hit a challenging multi-phase fight and finally figure out how to keep yourself alive for the duration, it's incredibly satisfying to reach that checkpoint.
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Sep 30, 2022 01:07
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vita chambers wouldve been ok if the game was designed better with more open levels so there were less reasons to just abuse it to bash your head against every group of enemies. also if big daddies had their health regenerate every time you died. so if they were dark souls bonfires basically. IMO Bioshock would've been better if it was a good game and not bad.
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Sep 30, 2022 01:09
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Farm Frenzy posted:IMO Bioshock would've been better if it was a good game and not bad. 
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Sep 30, 2022 01:18
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I totally get what you're saying. I know D:E wasn't for everybody, but it definitely hit the right notes for me personally. On Nightmare it was difficult but doable, exhausting but rewarding. When you hit a challenging multi-phase fight and finally figure out how to keep yourself alive for the duration, it's incredibly satisfying to reach that checkpoint.
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Sep 30, 2022 01:49
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A major gamechanger for me was binding MWheelUp to the flame belch and MWheelDown to the chainsaw, which took all the effort out of remembering when to use them.
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Sep 30, 2022 01:57
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Peewi posted:I'm playing this in the Quake remaster and I've run into an odd issue. After starting a new game, the esc key stops working, so I can't pause and have to alt+f4 to quit. Doesn't happen if I load a save from the main menu though. I think that's a general issue with the remaster when running recent Copper mod code, along with some crashiness.
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Sep 30, 2022 02:10
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Volte posted:
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Sep 30, 2022 06:18
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Volte posted:A major gamechanger for me was binding MWheelUp to the flame belch and MWheelDown to the chainsaw, which took all the effort out of remembering when to use them. I did something similar - grenade firing was mouse wheel up, change grenade was mouse wheel down. I don't mind the cooldown juggling so much; the rhythm of the combat in Eternal means you generally want to use the ability when it's ready anyway. It's more remembering all the bindings in the moment.
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Sep 30, 2022 08:23
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The checkpoint system in Prodeus is good because it lets anyone finish a level and the game (on whatever difficulty they like) while allowing more serious players to challenge themselves with no-death or speed runs (thus the score and time leaderboards). I greatly prefer it to quicksaves and praying a level doesn’t have some ridiculous fight you just can’t get through without completely restarting at lower difficulty.
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Sep 30, 2022 10:15
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There's a very big space between facerolling through fights and learning nothing in the process because you are not required to engage with the mechanics seriously & doing the equivalent of typing 'respawn' into the gzdoom console and a no-death run on a 20+ minute map. I've done of uv-maxes and played some very long doom maps and saves are an absolutely vital part of figuring out difficult encounters and getting better as a player before going for that finished run. The minute you introduce free vita-chamber style respawns, it actively hampers a player's ability to learn about the finer details of encounter design and game systems unless they're willing to put in the time grinding through the incidental combat/easy stuff to properly reset the difficult fights for another go (maybe even multiple times!). That's a substantial time investment that a lot of people are unable or unwilling to put into a game and the only alternative is a totally hollow 'victory'. Why should a player be able to breeze through a game on the highest difficulty - to the detriment of people who seriously want to engage with it - if they aren't willing to learn how to play? koren fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 11:02
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koren posted:Why should a player be able to breeze through a game on the highest difficulty if they aren't willing to learn how to play it? Because it’s a loving videogame. E: It is not to the detriment of others. The challenge is there for people who want it.
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Sep 30, 2022 11:16
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Eyud posted:E: It is not to the detriment of others. The challenge is there for people who want it. Or I can just mash respawn and move on, learning nothing which I really don't want to do. I also don't have the time to grind out n ironman win on every map in a very suboptimal manner. I want a happy middle ground - the middle ground games have been providing for decades.
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Sep 30, 2022 11:36
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Prodeus seems to have a lot of reinventing the wheel for no good reason and doubling down when it turns out it was better the first way.
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Sep 30, 2022 11:44
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Too hardcore for quicksaving every twenty seconds, not hardcore enough for checkpoints or ironmanning. It's a hard life out there.
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Sep 30, 2022 11:46
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koren posted:The point is it's not without a substantial and needless time investment. So your issue boils down to it takes more time than you would like? That’s valid, but acting like the system as designed somehow forces players to learn nothing is nonsense.
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Sep 30, 2022 11:47
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Arivia posted:Prodeus seems to have a lot of reinventing the wheel for no good reason and doubling down when it turns out it was better the first way.
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Sep 30, 2022 11:55
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Eyud posted:So your issue boils down to it takes more time than you would like? That’s valid, but acting like the system as designed somehow forces players to learn nothing is nonsense. It's not guaranteed, but it hampers a player's ability to learn about encounter design and specific mechanics unless they're willing to take the hard, time consuming road (which few will take), yes. I'm extrapolating from my own experiences learning how to play difficult doom/quake maps so let me try to explain: In those games challenging encounters rely on a specific mix of spatial awareness, target prioritisation and knowing how certain enemies will behave and how to use that to your advantage (via infighting etc). I have no reason to think the same isn't true for Prodeus too. There are a lot of challenging maps out there where there's a specific method of unpicking a given fight - maybe I need to keep the cyberdemon alive use them to draw the aggro of some archviles, maybe there's a wall of revenants that need to be punched through with the rocket launcher first to create the necessary space to avoid being smothered from a wall of mancs, I need to keep open an opportunity to swing around to a vile teleport location to stop them from causing havoc and working themselves into the middle of the pack etc. If there's a specific method to dealing with a problem, it follows that there are really bad ways of approaching them too. Ordinarily these would result in failure and force the player to reconsider their tactics. In Prodeus, through casual (non-ironman) play this is not the case. You can miss the point of a fight and fail to understand its underlying mechanics and there's nothing to correct you. You know you did something wrong because you're dead, but the specifics aren't necessarily going to be revealed to you. With death the state of play does not reset so you are returning to a situation that's already compromised and you can continue to make the exact same mistake or do something else entirely until everything is clear. You can completely bypass the lynchpin of the fight and that aha moment that a well designed fight was built to teach and this is a problem that compounds as the game continues - the mapper can no longer assume that you know how to deal with certain situations and build on them or introduce a twist because the foundation was missed. It leads to more brute forcing down the road and an overall shallower level of engagement with mechanics. Maybe you'll figure out the correct tactics later down the line - but it'll take a longer time because who knows when you'll next be thrust into the same situation and make the correct choice? Going back to other games - if Doom had no save mechanics or the Prodeus checkpoint system, it would have taken me a much longer time to get to my current level of ability. In fact, I would probably be a vastly inferior player because there are a lot of very difficult doom maps out there where a 20 minute (or sometimes even 60 and beyond..) grind to learn a very hard fight would have made me give up. That'd be a shame because I think there's a real joy in playing a new map and spotting encounters and areas where you can apply the accumulated tricks and techniques you've built up over many hours of play. It's worth mentioning that the same problem arises with quicksave spam midfight, but the existence of quicksaves doesn't have any detrimental effect on every player's ability to learn the same way not having a proper save or checkpoint system does. Similarly, I have no problem with accessibility options or respawn mechanics if they're not mandatory. The more choices people have to help them get on with games the better.
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Sep 30, 2022 13:00
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Arivia posted:Prodeus seems to have a lot of reinventing the wheel for no good reason and doubling down when it turns out it was better the first way. Besides the save system what else is like this?
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Sep 30, 2022 13:35
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MMF Freeway posted:Besides the save system what else is like this? The enemy design and whatever the gently caress is going on with all the visual effects.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:14
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Hmm I feel like the enemies are pretty by the numbers and while there are some naysayers the visuals are one of the game's biggest selling points. There is definitely a general lack of customization which I would like to see improved, but I don't think stuff like no 3d models for weapons/items is a double down, its probably just lower on the priority list.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:24
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My biggest Prodeus beef is the Super Shotgun sucks poo poo. The quad blast should gib a wall zombie men, but it seems to only blast one target at a go. The regular Shotty seems much better overall as a workhorse
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Sep 30, 2022 14:34
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anatomi posted:What kind of limitations? And do check out Trenchbroom if you're thinking about mapping again. The texture browser is bare bones and as far as I can tell there's no way to remove a texture from your "palette" once you've added it short of reloading the editor, and there's no magnified texture preview feature that I could see so some of the hotspot textures that combine many different textures into one image really can only be previewed by putting it on a face and then manipulating the face to all its various size configurations. Most of my texturing in experimenting with the editor has just been putting random textures on each face and seeing what looks right. Also I couldn't see any way to specify texture offsets or anything directly. Also the game itself barely has any textures. Since you can't add your own textures, it feels very limiting. This is the beginnings of the map I was experimenting on for an evening. Didn't get very far before I felt like I just wanted to try Trenchbroom again.  Malcolm Excellent posted:My biggest Prodeus beef is the Super Shotgun sucks poo poo. The quad blast should gib a wall zombie men, but it seems to only blast one target at a go. The regular Shotty seems much better overall as a workhorse Volte fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 14:57
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18 seconds of Phantom Fury on the Steam Deck https://twitter.com/Freschism/status/1575787975715459073
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Sep 30, 2022 15:05
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i think its funny that prodeus has shops you walk around like the golden souls mario doom wads
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Sep 30, 2022 15:52
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Rev. Melchisedech Howler posted:I did something similar - grenade firing was mouse wheel up, change grenade was mouse wheel down. I don't mind the cooldown juggling so much; the rhythm of the combat in Eternal means you generally want to use the ability when it's ready anyway. It's more remembering all the bindings in the moment. There are two eras in my D:E experience: When I started by using "conventional" binds (number keys for weapons, letter keys for abilities) and when I took some time to set up custom binds for basically everything on the keys around WASD and my mouse. It made such a huge difference. But yeah, you still have to remember the binds in the heat of the moment since they're unique to the game.
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Sep 30, 2022 16:03
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also why does the super shotgun in prodeus sound almost identical to the silenced pistol? its a very bizarre choice for your super shotgun to go deek
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Sep 30, 2022 16:09
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Did I hallucinate or is Blood Death Wish dropping its latest version before halloween this year? if I did, guess I'll give Bloom a go!
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Sep 30, 2022 16:25
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Narcissus1916 posted:Did I hallucinate or is Blood Death Wish dropping its latest version before halloween this year?
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Sep 30, 2022 16:26
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Yeah didn't the dev say that Blood Death Wish's latest version still has a solid year or so?
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Sep 30, 2022 16:41
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Yeah. A long wait but i'm sure it'll be worth it. The current version is excellent so definitely get on it if you haven't.
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Sep 30, 2022 17:38
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Ah, no worries! The dude who created Going Down unexpectedly dropped a new mapset earlier this month, so things can't be too bad!
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Sep 30, 2022 20:22
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Prodeus impressions part Deux -As you advance, a few of the levels gets more memorable, in that they are somewhat more different than the rest, which as I said, are a tad too homogeneous. The crater, the level with the snipers, or the one with the green goo... however, these levels served to notice something, as the were super linear levels. In general the level design is pretty linear. A single golden path to follow usually. -Coming back to the save/checkpoint talk, I just died in the second to last fight of a 22 minute level (which would have been longer had I been searching for the runes). I totally wouldn't repeat 22 minutes of play because a death, lol. I also noticed how in fact it disincentivize risky exploration (ie doing tricky jumps around lava or a chasm to get a secret) -We haven't talked of the minimap. It's so bad! Possibly the worse I've seen. It's very unclear to see, it doesn't server its primary function (see the map layout) and the controls are non-intuitive (why you don't move around with wasd? why scroll well doesn't apply zoom in/out?) -The weapons are good, I like all of them. Maybe the super shotgun is missing a boomer sound effect on the secondary fire. Another detail is how you can fire a single smg when having your dual smgs, but it isn't recognized when you reload, you always reload both. Booo! I am also not a fan of having so many numbers with multiple weapons in them, in a fast shooter like this. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 20:34
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I just played through the first 4ish maps of Prodeus. It is polished AF and clearly pretty well designed and I'm enjoying it I think but it's not quite giving me that special thing that keeps me coming back to Doom/Quake. I'm more getting Doom 2016 vibes in that a steady flow of scripted spawn-ins and tiny arena fights guide you through the maps. The path forward is always reasonably obvious/signposted but I don't think I like that very much in a game like this. It's too easy to mash the fire button and just push forward without thinking. It's also a bit light on personality. We're in the middle of a deluge of fighting-demons-in-a-science-fiction-setting games and it needs something to differentiate it. I DO dig it though and the faux-sprite rendering on the enemies is pretty neat and well executed. Barrels can be a bit funky lookin' at times but beyond that it's gorgeous. Especially the shader/texture work on the environements, limited in variety as they may be.
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Sep 30, 2022 21:42
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I forgot how loving goofy FEAR is and I love it
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