|
serefin99 posted:Genuine question: what are you folks' thoughts on Spirutalism as a counter to Mine? I ask this because one of my close friends is a hardline Mystic Mine defender, and he always points to Spiritualism specifically as to why Mine is fine. It's not great. Besides only being useful to counter mine specifically, your opponent can still have metaverse and demise of the land to followup and activate a second Mystic Mine. And on top of that, even if they don't, you better be able to OTK them that turn, including playing around battle phase enders like threatening roar, otherwise it's just coming back down next turn.
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2022 21:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
Anyway, I blew 10K gems on the Branded selection pack and didn't get a single Branded Fusion. Sure got plenty of Blue Eyes URs tho Fuxk
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2022 21:55
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Anyway, I blew 10K gems on the Branded selection pack and didn't get a single Branded Fusion. Sure got plenty of Blue Eyes URs tho Just gotta scrap them for the branded cards. Still rough though
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2022 22:19
|
|
|
The thing is, if you think Maxx C is fine specifically because it counters decks that special summon more than an arbitrary number... (for reference, a mid-but-consistent swordsoul board of baronne chixiao blackout gives FIVE draws) ... is that those decks can and always run Maxx C too. Giving actual good and consistent decks free draws is way scarier than giving them to whatever decks you're on, and Every Deck Special Summons unless you are specifically on like... Floo, Pachy Stun, True Draco, or Burn.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2022 23:24
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:I mean, no. The 14 Hand-trap/counter hand trap suite of cards that form the meta got played in formats where maxx C was hard banned. The poo poo you're running to counter Maxx C is the same poo poo everyone ran to counter every other goddamn thing. Except you're incorrect. Turns out that depending on the format, hand-traps fluctuated in use, and often, in fact, had more to do with your individual deck building choices than being a hard requirement, case in point, Infinite Impermanence, a card you can claim is an excellent hand trap, still goes all the way from 0-3. Even Ash Blossom, a card you'd assume is a staple at 3 in every deck just... isn't, in fact right now, in the current TCG format, Ash blossom is at an all time "Not worth using" because as it turns out Tear and Spright kinda don't have a hard lock that Ash just stops them from going through. With no hard-answer cards, the use of hand-traps becomes... a choice you make. You can literally go back and look at the various performing decks in the meta and see it for yourself. The entire past year of the OCG has been nothing but every deck running 3-of Maxx "C", Ash, 2 of Called by, and occasionally Crossout. very rarely are they in the board rather than the main, but they always run every copy, except Tear, who don't need to be running Ash since Tear. People run D.D. Crow and Ghost Belle not to counter a specific card, but to counter, specifically, Branded Despia. Crossout Designator, a card fully expected to be hyper Staple due to its powerful effect, saw very little meta relevance just due to the fact that without a Must-Have Hand Trap in the format like Maxx "C" it had very little impact in the TCG unlike the OCG where every deck could expect to see the Maxx "C" meta line up. These are not hidden information, it takes like 5 minutes on google to figure this poo poo out. You are wrong. You're just incorrect. No matter how insistent you are the facts and reality disprove your assertion. Maxx "C" warps the meta, which we can tell BY LOOKING AT THE META.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 01:50
|
|
|
So this is going to be an imperfect comparison, but it's one that I think brings something worth chewing on. Snorlax, in gen 2 Pokemon. The video games, to clarify. In OU, it has a 100% usage rating; literally every team that's even remotely serious runs a Snorlax. Yet despite that, Snorlax isn't banned in OU. It's not because it can't hack it above OU, if that even matters to players, because Snorlax also has pretty healthy usage in gen 2 ubers. Snorlax is actually unbanned despite being so strong because there's like eight ways to build the thing, all of them viable, and none of them brainless. Similarly, on the counterplay side, Snorlax isn't an immediate loss, you can beat it, you just need to have a plan for how. Despite being ubiquitous, Snorlax doesn't restrict creativity or skill, it can fit into pretty much any team you'd want to play and support it. Again, the comparison isn't perfect; single cards in a TCG aren't exactly capable of multiple builds by themselves. But it does hold that, while Maxx C. is ubiquitous, it isn't brainless on either side; the person with it needs to suss out the best times to use it, the person without it needs to have a plan for when it arrives (perferably multiple). It's not like a Pot of Greed where it has a static effect that's always the exact same level of good so it's a no-brainer to play and a no-brainer to use; it's possible for Maxx C. to pop the hell off, to get misplayed, to turn up too late, to get hard countered by an Ash, to get carefully played around by an opponent without an out but with a plan B, to just shrivel and die because it turns out Floowandereeze eats cockroaches for breakfast. Yes, Maxx C. is format-changing. But maybe consider that it miggt not change the format into something worse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 03:22
|
|
|
Aw gently caress. The latest update to Duel Links that added Vrains also removed all the old Loaner Deck duels and duel quizzes. Had a bunch of those left unfinished, so that's a ton of free gems lost forever. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 04:19
|
|
|
Except it absolutely does change it into something worse, because there's no "counterplay" to "I draw 1 card for everything you try to do". Especially if you choose to stop, and then they pop off themselves because you have no interaction on board and didn't draw Maxx C. Hand traps are good, because they're a meta call. You use the correct hand trap for the correct expectation. There is no meta call to Maxx C. I don't actually dislike Maxx C in theory, but it's absolutely not okay in Best of 1. The best time to use Maxx C is as soon as you can, actually, there's no reason to ever hold it in your hand unless you expect it to be countered. The problem isn't that there's no way to play around Maxx C (or Mine) it's that there's no FUN to be had in doing so. Both cards, especially in Best of One, make it highly likely one person just isn't getting to play that game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 04:22
|
|
|
Taking the Maxx C Challenge is actually incredibly fun
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 04:29
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Taking the Maxx C Challenge is actually incredibly fun Oh it absolutely is, but that's not counterplay. Not realistic counterplay for most decks, at least. Taking the Maxx C challenge isn't playing around Maxx C, because in that situation Maxx C doesn't do anything except give you a weird win condition. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Oct 2, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 04:45
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:So this is going to be an imperfect comparison, but it's one that I think brings something worth chewing on. Cleretic, your draw phase turn 1, I play Maxx "C" in draw phase. You special summon once, I upstart, you do it twice, I've potted. You choose not to, I have effectively played a card that reads "End my opponent's turn." There are two decks in which this doesn't break your back, Eldlich and Flunder. And that is your worst possible activation of Maxx "C" that isn't literally throwing by going "I activate it on my own turn when you have no interaction" And if you're so stupid you'll do that, you're a literal child. Okay, let's change that, Your draw phase turn 2. I've already set up my field, I Maxx "C" you. Now not only are you drawing me a card trying to play through it, drawing me into more interaction, you can't even choose to not because I'll just kill you, and you can't even guarantee you'll resolve anything because I already set up my board. You're right, it isn't Pot of Greed. It's better.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 04:45
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Taking the Maxx C Challenge is actually incredibly fun Exactly. All this blah blah blah about "other hand traps is ~a choice~" is nonsense; I can at least react to a Maxx C in reaction to my first play but an Ash on my first maid is basically "your turn 1 is over, and I'm probably going to win on the crackback, eat poo poo".
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 04:49
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:Exactly. All this blah blah blah about "other hand traps is ~a choice~" is nonsense; I can at least react to a Maxx C in reaction to my first play but an Ash on my first maid is basically "your turn 1 is over, and I'm probably going to win on the crackback, eat poo poo". Maxx C is just as much your turn 1 is over. Depending on the situation, and Ash might not be your turn 1 is over. Maxx C draws your opponent plenty of cards to win on the crackback anyway. Especially because Maxx C can draw you into Ash. I even think the people who loudly whine about Maxx C are a bit much, but Onmi isn't actually wrong with all the things he's saying about how it changes the game, and especially in Master Duel it should be banned because it's extremely lovely in Best of One situations.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 04:53
|
|
|
Kyrosiris posted:Exactly. All this blah blah blah about "other hand traps is ~a choice~" is nonsense; I can at least react to a Maxx C in reaction to my first play but an Ash on my first maid is basically "your turn 1 is over, and I'm probably going to win on the crackback, eat poo poo". What the gently caress? What kind of lovely Dragonmaid deck are you running that 1 Ash can stop you? As king of poo poo Decks you should not be stopped by 1 Ash in Dragonmaid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 05:24
|
|
|
I'm curious what the counterplay to Maxx C supposedly is other than having Ash/called by in your opener. Try to telepathically sus out whether they're on a good deck that will kill you if you give them cards or a bad one that will set 3 pass? So long as you aren't playing Maxx C in situations where it does nothing (chain it to duality lol), it's always optimal to use it, minimal brain required.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 08:04
|
|
|
They should print maxximum c, a card that lets me draw two cards everytime the opponent special summons. I may deck out more often but it will be with a full grip and a smile on my face
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 11:49
|
|
|
Konami's willing to print conditional Pots, Maxx C should be one. It should let you draw up to twice, not infinite times. Then your opponent has the option of "do I stop early, or do I make my board and take the risk that my opponent going +1 will give them the tools they need to break it?"
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 11:57
|
|
|
Maxx "C" but it skips your Battle Phase and Main Phase 1.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 12:46
|
|
|
Fair Maxx C already exists and it is called Triple Tactics Talent. (30 UR points or $60 real life points)
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 13:54
|
|
|
Forget Maxx C and Mystic Mine. The final boss of the Abyss storyline is here and goddamn it’s a doozy. https://ygorganization.com/forbiddenesotericaofdogmatika/
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 14:15
|
|
|
Would there be a Dark Zoa?
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 14:18
|
|
|
Vandar posted:Forget Maxx C and Mystic Mine. The final boss of the Abyss storyline is here and goddamn it’s a doozy. Pretty good text, but I can't help but be doubtful it'll be good enough to justify play as a ritual monster when dogmatika already doesn't get run anymore? (good in MD for sure)
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 14:26
|
|
|
Nyaa posted:Would there be a Dark Zoa? Zoa's already Dark.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 14:31
|
|
|
Vandar posted:Forget Maxx C and Mystic Mine. The final boss of the Abyss storyline is here and goddamn it’s a doozy. This is just the final boss of DespiaDogmatika. The AluberTheBooberofDuber/Byssted and eventual Tri-Brigade+Albaz+Mirrorjade+Swordsouls+Spright+Spriggand bosses have to appear
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 14:32
|
|
|
I mean yeah all the associated archetypes are going to get their final boss monsters but this is clearly the final boss of the story (or at least is being presented as such).
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 14:51
|
|
|
They just announced yesterday what’s most likely the final bosses for Icejade and Swordsoul anyway (in terms of the lore).
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 14:55
|
|
|
As I've discussed on the Yugigoons discord, I tend to think of the Abyss Storyline as sort of what we'd usually see with sets in an Anime era. Since Sevens and onward have uh... not had corresponding OCG/TCG sets, we kinda lost what would be the usual cycle/rotation. It's not out there to say that if you look at Start-of-Zexal/Arc-V/Vrains packs compared to end of 5Ds/Zexal/Arc-V packs, you can see a scaling down of complexity of design, the first Xyz, Pendulums, Links were all pretty 'simple' while being strong and representative of the new mechanic, then complexity would ramp up more and more and the power level of cards get stronger, until the series conclusion where you'd get your Accesscode's, the next set bringing in a sort of 'soft' rotation. We're getting pretty drat close to the end of the Abyss storyline, and I think this is them using that as their "Anime" for card powerscope. I expect after the Abyss storyline reaches its conclusion we'll be seeing another 'soft' rotation, though without new mechanics there's nothing really big to clinch on to. Technically you can see a failed attempt at this in the transition from DM era to GX era. Which is part of why those sets suck so badly, they rotated the power (We went from end-of-days Chaos to loving Flame Wingman and Ancient Gear Golem) but didn't really do anything to support that rotation, which lead to GX sets selling like rear end until the Glad beasts came out. I also think the heavy, HEAVY hits to Synchro when Zexal began came from them not quite learning the correct lesson from the DM/GX transition. Beyond ceasing support for Synchro, flat out designing cards to not work as synchro material, they banned the synchro decks kneecaps out and even hit them long after relevance. It was rotation and "New Product" in all but direct name. You can see the difference from Start of Zexal to Start of Arc-V, how Arc-V didn't kill Xyz or Synchro, but made Pendulum itself a very appealing and powerful mechanic, then when Link Summoning happened it did hamper those decks but it didn't stop Synchro/Xyz/Fusion from happening, just made Links integral to them. I do think without a guiding Anime there has been a bit of a struggle to 'balance the power' we haven't had a soft reset in a while.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 15:20
|
|
|
Vandar posted:I mean yeah all the associated archetypes are going to get their final boss monsters but this is clearly the final boss of the story (or at least is being presented as such). I dunno, I figure Aluber's got more up his sleeves than the dogmatika church does. This is more El Shaddoll Shekhinaga than Tierra we're looking at.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 15:50
|
|
|
To be fair, Shekhinaga is terrifying in lore and would be way more threatening if it was actually anything like Towers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2022 19:17
|
|
|
Turn 1, get Maxx "C"d, pass turn having not special summoned Turn 2, my opponent goes off and takes over half my life, sets up their board. Turn 3, get immediately Maxx "C"d again, have to play through it, opponent draws into every hand trap in the world. Worst Maxx "C" usage still reads: Discard this card to end your opponents turn.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 04:38
|
|
|
Worst Maxx C usage is still Use at begining of turn Opponent is is playing Speedroid or Flower Cardians Opponent laughs as they ignore your hand traps and draw your entire deck.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 05:06
|
|
|
this is my first custom yugioh card what do u think CONTRUTIVE CRITISISM ONLY DONT BE RUDE 
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 05:22
|
|
|
I wonder what the Japanese community thinks about Maxx C. Are they absolutely fine with it, or do they react to every banlist with 'WHERE'S THE MAXX C. BAN, KONAMI, IT SHOULD BE RIGHT HERE AFTER MASTER PEACE'? Also, I bet that when time passes and a recent format becomes an oft-played historical thing like Edison or HAT, Mystic Mine will end up completely uncompetitive just because the meta is going to incidentally grow non-monster backrow removal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 05:38
|
|
|
girl dick energy posted:this is my first custom yugioh card what do u think https://twitter.com/DPPt_Shitpost/status/1576304211163156480
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 06:25
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I wonder what the Japanese community thinks about Maxx C. Are they absolutely fine with it, or do they react to every banlist with 'WHERE'S THE MAXX C. BAN, KONAMI, IT SHOULD BE RIGHT HERE AFTER MASTER PEACE'? OCG event attendance is at an all time low. People do not like the goddamn bug.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 07:35
|
|
|
Uznare posted:OCG event attendance is at an all time low. People do not like the goddamn bug. I mean having a stale format since april of Tear/Spri-  Never mind, JUST TEAR NOW, probably has not helped things. But also, Source? Onmi fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Oct 4, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 07:40
|
|
|
Fears for Tears
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 07:49
|
|
|
Onmi posted:I mean having a stale format since april of Tear/Spri- Not only would I like to hear a source for the attendance, I'd like to hear a source that Maxx C. is actually a stated contributor. I look at that list and I see some potentially much louder reasons why people might not be into their current format, do we have proof that it's actually because of Maxx C. and not because, say, tier 0 formats suck and they've basically been hit with two back-to-back?
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 08:06
|
|
|
OCG has had relatively stale formats for a while now. Before it was branded despia and a bunch of older decks like tribrigades, floo and drytron, especially now with how tear/sprights pushed out almost everything despite some really good support coming out for other decks in POTE and DABL, plus all new archetypes from Tactical Masters and Amazing Defenders (of those only runick made a small impact). Tcg has unintentionally staved off the beast by delaying the ishizu cards. Re:OCG Attendance Going by reports from roadoftheking, from what i can see attendance peaks in new formats when a banlist or new prpduct comes in, then depresses as the format stabilizes into a clear hierarchy of decks. No idea yet if meta diversity correlates with more attendance/less dropoff. Because that sounds like work and someone else should do it. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Oct 4, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 11:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
Cleretic posted:Not only would I like to hear a source for the attendance, I'd like to hear a source that Maxx C. is actually a stated contributor. I look at that list and I see some potentially much louder reasons why people might not be into their current format, do we have proof that it's actually because of Maxx C. and not because, say, tier 0 formats suck and they've basically been hit with two back-to-back? Neither of these formats have been tier 0, a tier 0 format only happens if there is no deck besides the current best deck that has a chance against the current best deck. A representational pie chart of 75% or more basically.
|
|
#
?
Oct 4, 2022 14:34
|
|