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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:AIOs tend to be quieter under load but they have a higher noise floor at idle due to the pump, so it's a more balanced setup. Some AIOs have fairly quiet pumps too (e.g. Arctic Liquid Freezer II), so they can absolutely be quieter in most scenarios. "Much higher noise" is pretty big hyperbole in my opinion. You can also wiggle them into awkward positions in ITX cases that air cooling wouldn't penetrate as much
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Oct 5, 2022 01:02
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Lackmaster posted:If AIOs have higher noise and more cost then what’s the point? Genuinely asking I have an 280 AIO in one computer and D15 in my wifes, both cooling same OCed CPU. Pros of D15 We’ve been using it for 8+ years. Pure air cooling means the PC is dead silent when doing office work. A giant metal thing looks pretty bad rear end. Cons of D15 Mounting fans on it is terrible after it is installed. Dealing with the fan plugs is equally terrible. Accessing anything around the cooler is terrible. Even unplugging your graphics card becomes terrible. Tall as hell, check your case compatibility. Pros of AIO Unbeatable cooling for short work loads. Fantastic (better) cooling under sustained loads. The ability to have your fans stay the same speed. outside of gaming / prolonged workloads. Easier to get to the motherboard and ram. A glowing thing with water looks pretty bad rear end. You can see that dumb ram you want. Cons of AIO Cost. Not silent ever. Some companies have been real failures at quality controlling the fluid. I like the AIO more. Venting cpu heat directly out the top of the case just makes so much sense.
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Oct 5, 2022 01:15
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I have been using AIOs for almost a decade and I have no complaints. On my ITX build, only having one USB 2.0 header made it so I had to use a NZXT USB hub to have all the connectivity I needed.
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Oct 5, 2022 01:23
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Much more noise is an exaggeration yeah. They allow lower noise at higher thermal workloads, and overall better cooling from air. The trade off is the inability to run them silently, and the cost for an excellent one can be like double a top of the line air cooler.
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Oct 5, 2022 01:44
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:Much more noise is an exaggeration yeah. You can start to justify the cost if you were already looking at buying 2-3 quality case fans for the top of your case. Just make sure you do your research because I was surprised to see how hard it was to get a new case that accommodated my 280 AIO in the roof. Just because it has the right size fan holes doesn’t mean it will clear the motherboard or ram correctly if an AIO is installed instead of fans.
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Oct 5, 2022 04:03
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Hobnob posted:Narrowing down on actual parts a bit, I'm wondering about manufacturers, since my experience is 8 years or so out of date. Wondering if anyone has more recent opinions or horror stories. Since this got missed on the last page, I'll throw in my 2 cents on it. Mobo: I'd decide what you want to do with the machine and what specs are important to you, then do research. I'm not familiar with the current Intel board offerings, but others could probably chime in there. GPU: Again, decide what you want the card to be able to do (1080p at 9000hz, 1440p at 144hz, 4k at 60hz, and so on) and then read reviews and look for deals. Coolers: I'm fond of be quiet!, but that's just my preference. Memory: I think that's less iffy than it used to be, but I've good luck with G.Skill for the last couple generations. Cases: As far as I know Fractal Design cases are fine. I just bought a Corsair 5000D for myself, but that was driven by my own needs/desires. SSDs: It's hard to go wrong with Western Digital, but again, it also depends on what you want to do with the machine and what is important to you. PSUs: Again, check reviews and ratings. You might watch out for Gigabyte PSUs considering they were selling one that was effectively an IED, but otherwise I'd avoid no-name suspiciously cheap PSUs.
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Oct 5, 2022 04:11
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spunkshui posted:You can start to justify the cost if you were already looking at buying 2-3 quality case fans for the top of your case. If it does, as I figure the Torrent will, the installation is not that much more difficult compared to an air cooler I take it?
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Oct 5, 2022 04:22
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With AIOs always measure for your radiator, fans on the radiator, and most importantly for the hoses. Just because a case says, supports a 360 radiator, doesn't mean it really will in the end. Radiators come in all different dimensions. Bigger the radiator the more likely you are stuck with it only fitting in a front or top or whatever slot the case god says you may put it in. If you want your radiator on the front make sure it really can fit on the front. The measurements really don't account for everything you are putting into the case. You are paying more for an AIO and you should be able to do with it what you want instead of being stuck with whatever you're stuck with. Hoses are rarely accounted for. Make sure there's clearance for the hoses, add a few inches for clearance and for other parts you are shoving in. Especially the graphics card as they've hit comical levels in size again. You don't want your hoses bending 180 degrees or in some cases simply not being able to reach. Fans aren't really measured for either, or if they are it is at an assumed size. Your AIO fans should be good enough that you don't want to have to replace them out of the box as then you're obviously just adding to the cost. Performance wise it's already been said but ya short bursts of heavy load is what they excel at. Box wine fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Oct 5, 2022 |
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Oct 5, 2022 04:25
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Incessant Excess posted:If it does, as I figure the Torrent will, the installation is not that much more difficult compared to an air cooler I take it? Also make sure there is room for the AIO mount on the motherboard you choose. Where you attach it to the cpu that is. There's once in a blue moon a board that has a weird layout and has a part that interferes with the mount. Mounting a radiator isn't usually harder but sometimes you have to sit there and hold the radiator in a pain in the rear end position to get the first screws in. Other then that they are pretty simple. I also found a review from Gamer's Nexus on the case. They cover some of the nuances you may face with radiators and fans. Should be time stamped to that section. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBxo2_lwKps&t=514s
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Oct 5, 2022 05:07
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I assume the Torrent I ordered will be fine, as it's enormous, are there any common AiO models that are particularly tricky to install? Edit: Thank you for the detailed response above, I'll rewatch the review, it was a key reason for picking the Torrent initially.
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Oct 5, 2022 05:22
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Hobnob posted:Narrowing down on actual parts a bit, I'm wondering about manufacturers, since my experience is 8 years or so out of date. Wondering if anyone has more recent opinions or horror stories. if you tell us what your budget is & what sort of monitor you're planning to upgrade to we can give you more detailed advice. just choosing parts on manufacturer alone isn't going to get you very far - there are certainly some to avoid in certain categories but it's not like any manufacturer is going to be universally good. you also really should wait until raptor lake launches in a few weeks before deciding on anything, as you were looking at the 12600K or 12700K before and the 13600K is very likely going to be a much better option once it launches. for motherboards, msi & asus are well-regarded. asrock is generally fine too apart from their cheapest boards. gigabyte have had a ton of problems with their current-gen intel boards and i would definitely avoid them there. there's not a whole lot of point worrying about gpu manufacturers too much - whatever you can get the best deal on is probably going to be best. it's worthwhile thinking about cooling options (for higher-end cards that come in both 2 and 3-fan options, the 3-fan is going to be quieter) but that's it apart from like warranty lengths. the deepcool ak620 is a good-value higher-end cooler that should do what you want. you don't really need to worry about ram brand unless you're getting really into overclocking and want to make sure you're getting the best-binned stuff that will overclock really well. fractal still make good cases. other brands that make good cases include lian li, cooler master, corsair and phanteks. with all of these you just want to be looking at getting a mesh-front case as that will provide much better airflow and cooling than a solid-front case. if the case doesn't come with many fans then you will want to add your own as well. the wd blue sn570 is usually the go-to ssd recommendation if you have no particular needs. there are other good options but it's generally among the best value around. corsair & evga have good psus generally, there are others but i forget.
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Oct 5, 2022 05:27
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Harik posted:I'm trying to build a few prev gen systems from (mostly) ebay which is hard to plan properly on partpicker since retail prices are mostly unrelated. Basic plan is new case/drives/kb/mouse/monitor, used MB/CPU/GPU, ram new unless it comes with a MB/CPU combo. DGPU question answered (rx 580 good enough for the price), gonna ask again about how far back I can go on a CPU before I have real limitations on a new build. Zen1/1+ had enough problems with RAM I don't feel like dealing with again, Zen3 is still too expensive, is something like a 3600/3700x a reasonable pickup for used? There's CPU/MB/RAM combos running $2-300 which I can work with budget-wise. Unless there's something comparable on the intel side but I think AMD completely dominated that gen.
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Oct 5, 2022 06:52
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Harik posted:DGPU question answered (rx 580 good enough for the price), gonna ask again about how far back I can go on a CPU before I have real limitations on a new build. Zen1/1+ had enough problems with RAM I don't feel like dealing with again, Zen3 is still too expensive, is something like a 3600/3700x a reasonable pickup for used? There's CPU/MB/RAM combos running $2-300 which I can work with budget-wise. Unless there's something comparable on the intel side but I think AMD completely dominated that gen. I'm planning to build another system using the 3600X out of my main machine - it's a solid processor, and if I hadn't upgraded to a 5800X3D it would still be my primary CPU. I had a 650W PSU sitting around unused, so I bought a new B550 board and am using hand-me-downs from my main machine to build a secondary desktop that will still be competent for gaming.
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Oct 5, 2022 06:56
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PCPartPicker Part List CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($250 combo @ebay) Motherboard: B450/B550 mATX (combo) Memory:16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 (combo) Storage: ADATA XPG SX8100 512 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($48.98 @ B&H) Video Card: Radeon RX580 8GB ($125.00 @ebay) Case: Thermaltake Versa H18 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($50.98 @ Newegg) Power Supply: Rosewill Glacier 500M 500 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ Newegg) Monitor: ViewSonic VX2418-P-MHD 24.0" 1920 x 1080 165 Hz Monitor ($149.99 @ B&H) Keyboard: Monoprice Dark Matter Collider RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard ($39.99 @ Monoprice) Mouse: SteelSeries Rival 3 Wired Optical Mouse ($20.99 @ Amazon) Total: $730.92 man prices have skyrocketed. All the cases are way more expensive now leaving anything under $75 for the junk. Same with power supplies. Build notes: I can downgrade the monitor maybe but I really did want freesync to make the most of the weaker GPU. I've got spare cheap-o monitors so I can take my time and deal hunt. CPU/MB/RAM price is what I'm seeing a 3600x + B450 board go for on ebay, not specific models. CPU Cooler will depend on what exact combo I get and if it has one on it. KB/mouse are placeholders to account for the total cost. Suggestions for fairly robust options welcome, kids are tough on their keyboards and mice. Should be able to transfer my win10 licenses from the machine it's replacing. I can't remember if the rosewill PSUs were OK or fire hazards? $750 feels like a lot for what I'm getting.  Target is gaming/homework machines for kids, low double-digit age. Minecraft, roblox, FNAF series, 1080p. No recent AAA titles. Any suggestions on cost cutting?I need 2 systems so it adds up fast. Thinking potentially going down to a 2600x, even though I said I wasn't particularly fond of zen+ it's probably fine with all the updates they've released. Especially if it's a combo board from someone who's been using it.
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Oct 5, 2022 08:53
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Harik posted:
Buy used piecemeal and get a 3600 instead of that 3600X bundle, they're like $70-$100 from Reddit/Ebay/another reputable reseller, then buy a $55 refurbed B450 mATX MOBO from Amazon and a $50 Corsair RAM kit. Even at only $250 that's not a great deal. Ryzen stock cooler is $10 on Amazon with free prime shipping right now. Honestly the R5 2600 isn't terrible and you can probably find one for like $50 if you're lucky. Here's a 650 watt bronze Thermaltake PSU for $45: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NPM8WZ7/ change my name fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Oct 5, 2022 |
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Oct 5, 2022 13:31
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I'm leaning heavily towards the Torrent for my next build and would pose this question to you: why go for a hyper airflow optimised case if you are going to stick an AIO in it?
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Oct 5, 2022 13:52
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Alchenar posted:I'm leaning heavily towards the Torrent for my next build and would pose this question to you: why go for a hyper airflow optimised case if you are going to stick an AIO in it? AIOs use moving air. The only thing you’re doing with an AIO is getting a much larger surface area / mass and placing it directly at the exit of the computer.
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Oct 5, 2022 14:51
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Harik posted:PCPartPicker Part List I agree with change my name. Buying used for most parts will be totally fine for a kiddo system. If you want the cases to match and you're near a microcenter, then their case prices are probably going to be best, and you can even clearance hunt and get a good deal. Otherwise, used cases are excellent if you can find them local. Check craigslist/facebook marketplace/next door/whatever local sell poo poo sites you have for it. Even check r/hardwareswap and filter by location for your state. This is gone, but someone was selling a 3600x for $65. You can certainly do well used here. https://www.reddit.com/r/hardwareswap/comments/xw1q8l/usava_h_amd_ryzen_5_3600_asus_b450_itx_mobo_asus/ Alchenar posted:I'm leaning heavily towards the Torrent for my next build and would pose this question to you: why go for a hyper airflow optimised case if you are going to stick an AIO in it? Better front case airflow will lower whole case temp, which means the CPU has more thermal headroom (similar to how on hot summer days your PC isn't going to perform as well vs a cold winter day). Additionally, the AIO has to work less, causing less noise and longer life. There's also the GPU, ram, and other components which matter just as much heat wise. Pilfered Pallbearers fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Oct 5, 2022 |
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Oct 5, 2022 15:26
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I gave my H210 away for free when I swapped cases last because gently caress shipping that + it has a giant pane of glass. Bet you could also find someone willing to give one away for free if you try hard enough
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Oct 5, 2022 15:29
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I was trying to give away an old Corsair 100R and couldn't find any takers. Troll Craigslist or post a want ad in SA-Mart or both.
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Oct 5, 2022 16:10
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Thanks everyone, I'll do all of the above. e: Would a 2600/2600x be a problem if the BIOS is updated? I remember AMD dropped old processors to add support for zen3. And is there any reason to avoid old A320 motherboards if I'm using an older processor? Harik fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Oct 5, 2022 |
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Oct 5, 2022 17:30
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Nooo, I'll have to compete with you for the AM4 scraps 
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Oct 5, 2022 17:54
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DrManiac posted:So I'm trying to build a new pc and it's not booting at all. Emphasis mine. Butterfly Valley already asked them to clarify what broke, but for my edification (FME) if you break a pin on the CPU you're hosed, right? I've never worked with AMD processors so I haven't had to worry about that so much, but one pin missing is a big deal, right?
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Oct 5, 2022 21:57
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Racing Stripe posted:Emphasis mine. Butterfly Valley already asked them to clarify what broke, but for my edification (FME) if you break a pin on the CPU you're hosed, right? I've never worked with AMD processors so I haven't had to worry about that so much, but one pin missing is a big deal, right? If you break a pin your hosed, yes. Even if it boots it’s likely gonna be fucky. If you break a pin on an intel motherboard you’re also hosed, but it’s typically harder to do. Depending on where you bought you may get lucky enough with a return. Or if you bought with a credit card you can probably make an accidental damage claim (most CCs offer 90 day damage protection, $500 per incident, 1-4 a year)
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Oct 5, 2022 22:07
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I have always been an Intel / Nvidia fanboy and every PC I've made has had that combination. That AMD Smart Access memory that they do now is really interesting to me. Is it worth branching out and trying something new or is that Smart Access memory like Blast Processing on the Sega Genesis and is really just a nothing burger.
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Oct 5, 2022 22:14
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:If you break a pin your hosed, yes. I dropped and broke a couple of pins on a Socket 939 Athlon 64 x2 that was rock solid for 4 whole years post-damage, overclocked. I must have hit all power or ground.
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Oct 5, 2022 22:16
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SalTheBard posted:I have always been an Intel / Nvidia fanboy and every PC I've made has had that combination. That AMD Smart Access memory that they do now is really interesting to me. Is it worth branching out and trying something new or is that Smart Access memory like Blast Processing on the Sega Genesis and is really just a nothing burger. Intel and Nvidia can do it too (the generic term they use is "resizable BAR"). With Intel, it's a necessity to ensure their cards operate decently at all. With Nvidia, it kinda sorta helps in a handful of games (the biggest boost I've gotten is 5%), but Nvidia has a whitelist for supported games that they never loving update and you have to use third-party tools to enable it in other games. It does legitimately help AMD more than nvidia in a number of games (up to 10% or so in some games), but that's already accounted for in most reviews published in the last year or so. Ignore AMD's marketing and focus on the end result, which has already been measured and compared for you in a number of reviews.
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Oct 5, 2022 22:58
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SalTheBard posted:I have always been an Intel / Nvidia fanboy and every PC I've made has had that combination. That AMD Smart Access memory that they do now is really interesting to me. Is it worth branching out and trying something new or is that Smart Access memory like Blast Processing on the Sega Genesis and is really just a nothing burger. The real answer is to never buy components based on brand loyalty. Buy on performance/price.
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Oct 6, 2022 00:55
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Intel and Nvidia can do it too (the generic term they use is "resizable BAR"). With Intel, it's a necessity to ensure their cards operate decently at all. With Nvidia, it kinda sorta helps in a handful of games (the biggest boost I've gotten is 5%), but Nvidia has a whitelist for supported games that they never loving update and you have to use third-party tools to enable it in other games. It does legitimately help AMD more than nvidia in a number of games (up to 10% or so in some games), but that's already accounted for in most reviews published in the last year or so. Ignore AMD's marketing and focus on the end result, which has already been measured and compared for you in a number of reviews. Thank you! I didn't realize that Resizable BAR and Smart Access Memory were the same thing (although it makes sense because on the AMD page it said you had to enable Resizable BAR. Pilfered Pallbearers posted:The real answer is to never buy components based on brand loyalty. Buy on performance/price. Haha yeah. To be fair this is my first time I've built a computer where I feel like AMD and Intel chips are comparable.
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Oct 6, 2022 01:08
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NZXT has a number of its cases on sale The H510i for $70 The H210 for $50 Plus a few other variants. Same sales on Amazon, BB, etc. Okay prices but these are far from best in class.
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Oct 6, 2022 13:13
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PC Part Picker List General info: I am UK-based, building a general purpose home PC for 1080p gaming and game dev. Looking to spend around £1500. Would want to play recent games at mid to high level specs. I generally prefer to go with Intel/nVidia systems. Specifics: CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K I think the CPU is likely to do a good amount of heavy lifting since I will be only playing at 1080p, but I do like to play lots of processing-intensive games like grand strategy or football manager. Also, probably a good deal of compiling programs. However, I think the i7 might be overkill for this build. Unsure on this. Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 I don't really have any frame of reference of what I would need here. I've never installed AIO and don't really think I would need it, and this seems to be a modestly priced, modestly quiet option. Motherboard: ASRock B660 Pro RS ATX I won't be doing any overclocking at all. I don't really care about the form factor; I prefer a full tower case so I went for the ATX board because theres no need to have everything cramped. Apart from that, my only criteria was avoiding Gigabyte since I've had issues with them in the past. Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) For game dev purposes I prefer to go with 64GB. There still seems to be a premium on DDR5 on the prices I looked at, particularly for the motherboards required, and I didn't think it was worth it for this level of build. Storage: Western Digital Blue SN570 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 My understanding is that this is still the sweet spot in terms of performance; if people think that PCIe 4.0 is worth a bump in price now, I'm open to spending a little more on it. GPU: Asus DUAL MINI OC V2 GeForce RTX 3060 Ti I'm not sure if there's much difference in manufacturers that I should be watching out for, this is just the cheapest 3060 Ti available. I settled on 3060 Ti as the sweet spot for me in terms of price / performance, considering I am still playing on 1080p. Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro ATX Full Tower Case I have one of these for my current PC, and I think its good. I'm not married to the choice though, and its based on research thats about 6 years old, so open to opinions. I would prefer to go for a full tower case though. PSU: Corsair RM650 650 W 80+ Gold I'm not really sure what capacity this build would require, but I think I would be fairly safe with this PSU. I would really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions!
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Oct 6, 2022 15:23
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It’s not long till the 13th gen intel chips come out (the 20th iirc) so you might want to wait and see what those look like. If you aren’t in a rush and aren’t getting an amazing deal on a 12th gen chip just wait a few more days to see how things shake out. We don’t have any independent benchmarks yet but the theory is that the 13th gen i5 will perform like the 12th gen i7.
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Oct 6, 2022 16:23
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Is there a cool looking small case with four drive bays? I was thinking of making a nas/mini server but I was hoping I could still have it look cool. Not interested in a mid tower, so something smaller.
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Oct 6, 2022 16:30
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I've been eyeing this for my own NAS build. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K6OVG0I/?coliid=I3J2CDREF1RL9P&colid=3S909JD9UA4MD&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it With room for more than 4 drives, but yeah.
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Oct 6, 2022 16:41
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Question that is tangentially related to PC building... I have an older family member that is living far away and wants a new budget gaming PC. I'm contemplating building a budget rig and shipping it to them. Has anyone dealt with trying to pack and ship a PC? How was your experience, and what were the costs? I'm wondering what the odds are that things will break/disconnect in transit and it won't boot up upon arrival.
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Oct 6, 2022 16:48
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Arrath posted:I've been eyeing this for my own NAS build. That's what I was thinking of. I have a cpu and mobo but not that small size unfortunately, I was hoping to gut it out of its existing dell case and maybe just buy a new mobo but the cpu is a bit old, and apparently that socket doesn't support four sata ports at 6gbps, which is unfortunate. Most I've seen is 2 And with one pcie slot, there's no room in case I wanted to put a low powered gpu in there for some minor tasks
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Oct 6, 2022 16:52
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GreenBuckanneer posted:That's what I was thinking of. I have a cpu and mobo but not that small size unfortunately, I was hoping to gut it out of its existing dell case and maybe just buy a new mobo but the cpu is a bit old, and apparently that socket doesn't support four sata ports at 6gbps, which is unfortunate. Most I've seen is 2 That case is reviewed pretty bad IIRC and it's very large. I don't have an alternative for you rn but I'll look. Myssu posted:PC Part Picker List Ram is the main point of issue. You should not be buying 2666Mhz ram. Here is 2x32GB, 3200Mhz@CL16, £194.99. 3600Mhz@CL18 (or 16) is also good, but more expensive here, and on intel you may not get much above 3200Mhz. Check the last couple pages for discussion on that. https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/3GkgXL/oloy-64-gb-2-x-32-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-md4u323216djda 650w is fine for that card, although I feel you could get a better card at a good price. Dark rock is fine, if expensive. You might be able to shave some bucks there.
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Oct 6, 2022 18:38
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Is undervolting or setting a power limit on a 12700K going to save me a significant number of watts with imperceptible performance loss? I’m interested in avoiding a fight over a 20A circuit with my condo board and a few weekends spent testing undervolts of my CPU and 3080 12GB sounds like an easy win.
Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Oct 7, 2022 |
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Oct 6, 2022 21:32
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Shumagorath posted:Is undervolting or setting a power limit on a 12700K going to save me a significant number of watts with imperceptible performance loss? I’m interesting in avoided a fight over a 20A circuit with my condo board and a few weekends spent testing undervolts of my CPU and 3080 12GB sound like easy wins. You shouldn’t need a 20A circuit for a home PC, unless there’s other super power hungry stuff there, or something is terribly wrong. Undervolting is fine, if not a bit tricky. Performance loss should be minimal if done correctly. Although IMO you electricity savings will be minimal unless you like in the UK, and even then.
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Oct 6, 2022 21:42
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The 20A would be for PC + triple monitors + file server + speakers + leftovers, as space limitations dictate I put all my heavy equipment on one wall.
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Oct 6, 2022 22:03
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