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Danhausen is also slinging pre-workout now which is hilarious because he looks like he's a solid 130lbs, but it's also part of the character that he thinks he's bigger than he is so it's kinda semi-clever marketing
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Oct 4, 2022 15:35
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a lot of managers are essentially professional jobbers, like mark sterling
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Oct 4, 2022 15:36
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Kvlt! posted:Danhausen is also slinging pre-workout now which is hilarious because he looks like he's a solid 130lbs, but it's also part of the character that he thinks he's bigger than he is so it's kinda semi-clever marketing Danhausen weighs over 300 lbs
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Oct 4, 2022 15:37
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Defenestrategy posted:I could be wrong, but are there actual professional jobbers? Like people who go into wrestling and say to themselves "I'm gonna do comedy and get pinned every day" and its not like a thing they fall into? Like Cassidy, Cabana, Honky, Santino, et al have lengthy stays at the top or upper midcard. Cabana won a lot on the indies, so I wouldn't call him a jobber as much as a comedy mid/upper-midcard guy who made good merch money and never had to deal with the pressure of carrying a company or being/failing to be a major draw. I also wouldn't call Honky a jobber specifically because he drew as IC champ on the house show circuits with Macho chasing him. Back in the day, guys like George South were professional jobbers who always had work in the territories because you needed guys who could make the stars look good and also have good matches when needed.
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Oct 4, 2022 15:57
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Ganso Bomb posted:I don't know if anyone decides they want to be a professional jobber, but once you fall into it and realize you can make money for doing like an 1/8 of the work that may be enough for some people? Danhausen probably understands his ceiling but started out as a more serious wrestler before transitioning fully into the character. Now he does comedy, gets to do this character he (I assume) loves, takes fewer bumps, and probably makes a good chunk of money on merch sales because he has a well-defined character with a devoted fanbase. I don't know if that's because Danhausen would prefer it that way or because bookers think (wrongly imo) that he can constantly lose and still be over, so it's better for other people to pick up wins over him to get some sort of rub from it, but even in AEW Danhausen still has a tag win with Hook and a Multiman win with Best Friends not to mention on the indy's he picks up wins and titles randomly. I think Brawler has literally never won a match. CombineThresher posted:Cabana won a lot on the indies, so I wouldn't call him a jobber as much as a comedy mid/upper-midcard guy who made good merch money and never had to deal with the pressure of carrying a company or being/failing to be a major draw. I also wouldn't call Honky a jobber specifically because he drew as IC champ on the house show circuits with Macho chasing him. Yea, what I was getting at, is comedy dudes can still end up at the top or uppercard. So I don't see how "comedy jobber." is any worse than being any kind of jobber in general, especially since I don't think people set out with the mission to be the most losingest loser in all of loserdom. edit: Like is PPA any less likely to get into the uppercard in AEW than...*checks* Bork Lesnar JR or Shawn Dean just because people like laughing at PPA? edit2: flatluigi posted:a lot of managers are essentially professional jobbers, like mark sterling Not really, because even Managers get one over on whoever vicariously, by managing winning wrestlers, helping them cheat, or dunking on people with the mic. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Oct 4, 2022 |
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Oct 4, 2022 17:10
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Brawler's weird in that he wasn't always a complete jobber, there was a span where he was more Jobber to the Stars. That is he'd never beat any sort of name but put him against any other jobber and he'd probably win. That went off the rails as time went on. And he has that win over Triple H when Jericho interfered
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Oct 4, 2022 17:27
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You proposedquote:Whats the worst archetype to have in wrestling if you aspire to be consistently at the top of the card during your tenure? Which has absolutely nothing to do with if a professional jobber is 100% satisfied with their station in life if their actual desired station isn’t consistently at the top of the card, something that by its very nature rules out being a job guy because by their very nature if they were always at the top of the card they wouldn’t be job guys they’d be main eventers. I’m sure tons of wrestlers are achieving their personal professional goals by doing whatever it is they’re doing, that’s not the same thing as being a persistent main eventer.
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Oct 4, 2022 17:29
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Tim Horner and Scott Casey—and maybe others—specifically went to the WWF in the late '80s to cash in while working as preliminary guys.
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Oct 4, 2022 17:42
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Jericho mentioned in his 1st book there was a person in his training class whose goal was to do a few job appearances for WWE, and he says the guy made it.
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Oct 4, 2022 17:47
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davidbix posted:Tim Horner and Scott Casey—and maybe others—specifically went to the WWF in the late '80s to cash in while working as preliminary guys. I believe Barry Horowitz said he actually made more money as a prelim guy in the WWF rather than working the territory remnants where he could have been on top. (I'm not sure how that explains his Global run, which I really liked.)
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Oct 4, 2022 18:11
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Defenestrategy posted:I don't know if that's because Danhausen would prefer it that way or because bookers think (wrongly imo) that he can constantly lose and still be over, so it's better for other people to pick up wins over him to get some sort of rub from it, but even in AEW Danhausen still has a tag win with Hook and a Multiman win with Best Friends not to mention on the indy's he picks up wins and titles randomly. I think Brawler has literally never won a match. I think they can turn around a comedy gimmick like Danhausen into legitimacy if they ever want to. Orange Cassidy is a good test case of someone with a comedy gimmick that does not translate to being a top talent under normal circumstances but they changed his style enough to justify it without completely losing the character. It does help that OC already had strong physical skills going in though.
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Oct 4, 2022 18:19
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Danhausen isn't like, a 10/10 or even an 8/10, but he is at least a perfectly serviceable worker who can put on a good match on the wrestling skills level, and you can get pretty far with that + a good character + good comedy spots. i think AEW could do some less squash-y matches with him.
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Oct 4, 2022 19:00
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Nea posted:Danhausen isn't like, a 10/10 or even an 8/10, but he is at least a perfectly serviceable worker who can put on a good match on the wrestling skills level, and you can get pretty far with that + a good character + good comedy spots. i think AEW could do some less squash-y matches with him. watch elevations main event from last night imo
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Oct 4, 2022 19:13
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CombineThresher posted:Cabana won a lot on the indies, so I wouldn't call him a jobber as much as a comedy mid/upper-midcard guy who made good merch money and never had to deal with the pressure of carrying a company or being/failing to be a major draw. I also wouldn't call Honky a jobber specifically because he drew as IC champ on the house show circuits with Macho chasing him. There were basically two main types of jobbers back in the waning days of the territories: guys who were themselves legitimately good workers that were used to make decent wrestlers look good and good wrestlers look great; and the type that weren't necessarily good workers but could absolutely sell their asses off and make the muscleheads (that were becoming more prominent as the 1980s went on) look like absolute powerhouses. Of the former type, you had guys like George South, Mike Sharpe, Brooklyn Brawler, guys like that. Of the latter type, probably the most famous was the tag team of the Mulkey Brothers, who routinely got the poo poo beat out of them, so much so that when they finally won a match (ironically enough, against a tag team that featured George South as one of its members), the fans lost their poo poo. But even though their record was something like 0-180 prior to that win, they were very crucial in making so many JCP-era tag teams look like absolute badasses.
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Oct 4, 2022 20:55
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Flair once had George South look amazing just to spite Dusty
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Oct 4, 2022 20:58
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There were also a lot of jobbers who were just bad wrestlers.
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Oct 4, 2022 20:59
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Flair once had George South look amazing just to spite Dusty The funniest part of that story is that Flair hopped out of the ring after a what, 15 minute, competitive match and did a TV interview right then and there. Meanwhile the ref is trying to roll South out of the ring because he's laying there huffing and puffing like a beached whale and he's right in the camera shot. Edit: http://www.midatlanticgateway.com/2015/12/flair-tells-george-south-today-steamboat.html Edit edit: Hell have the match itself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10ih_V2VM3Y Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Oct 4, 2022 |
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Oct 4, 2022 21:11
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MassRafTer posted:There were also a lot of jobbers who were just bad wrestlers. * Roster wrestlers who worked prelims on the road. Johnny Rodz, Davey O'Hannon, and the like in the WWF, George South and Italian Stallion in JCP, etc. * Random schlubs who only did TV jobs. This is where the likes of a "Judo" Joe Black come in.
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Oct 4, 2022 21:20
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graph posted:watch elevations main event from last night imo i did after your recommendation just now, and yeah! Absolutely, just like that!
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Oct 4, 2022 21:21
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davidbix posted:* Random schlubs who only did TV jobs. This is where the likes of a "Judo" Joe Black come in. Is that where those guys in the infamous match with the Skyscrapers came from with the one guy just popping up after everything Spivey did?
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Oct 4, 2022 23:15
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Dawgstar posted:Is that where those guys in the infamous match with the Skyscrapers came from with the one guy just popping up after everything Spivey did? IIRC there's a part where one of the Skyscrapers basically tells the guy who cooperated to quietly bail so they can kick the poo poo out of his partner
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Oct 4, 2022 23:18
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davidbix posted:* Random schlubs who only did TV jobs. This is where the likes of a "Judo" Joe Black come in. This reminds me of the infamous "Wee" Willie, who was in a tag match as part of a jobber team against the Condrey/Eaton version of the Midnight Express during their early days in JCP. The dude was jacked but was like the same height as Bill Dundee or Riho, and even though he was on a job team he went to Dusty and demanded to be called "Blue Thunder" (since his tights were blue). Dusty responded by having him introduced as "Wee Willie" and IIRC he proceeded to no-sell as much of the Midnights' offense as possible. They finally got him down ling enough to pin him, and then he decided to grab Condrey's leg as he was walking away. The aired match cut away quickly, as Condrey and Eaton proceeded to stomp the crap out of him. When he finally got backstage, Dusty said "if you wanna go off on thomeone, you go off on me, motherfucker! Now get the gently caress outta my building!" I think he did some jobs on WWF TV after that, though I forget what name he used.
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Oct 5, 2022 00:33
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He wrestled as Beef Wellington/Wellington Wilkins in Japan for about 15 years and had 3 matches as Wellington Wilkins Jr in the late 80s and I tryout in the 90s. https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=8808&page=4&s=600
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Oct 5, 2022 01:09
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Dawgstar posted:Is that where those guys in the infamous match with the Skyscrapers came from with the one guy just popping up after everything Spivey did?
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Oct 5, 2022 01:59
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Nea posted:i did after your recommendation just now, and yeah! Absolutely, just like that! agreed 
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Oct 5, 2022 04:31
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Defenestrategy posted:I could be wrong, but are there actual professional jobbers? Like people who go into wrestling and say to themselves "I'm gonna do comedy and get pinned every day" and its not like a thing they fall into? Like Cassidy, Cabana, Honky, Santino, et al have lengthy stays at the top or upper midcard. Yes! https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=3726&gimmick=Kono+Mama+Ichikawa Konomama/Stalker Ichikawa from Dragongate is really good at wrestling too, it's his character that's just awful at it. I believe Shachihoko Boy is kind of a comedy jobber too but he's also won both the Twin Gate and Triangle Gate titles. I also want to bring up Kazuki Hirata from DDT who's really just happy to be here and dance away (he has a signature dance spot that often costs him the match). He also managed to have an excellent match against Yoshihiko (the sex doll), which is the barometer for a good wrestler. But yeah "comedy jobber" and "top of the card" are kind of incompatible with each other.
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Oct 5, 2022 06:49
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It seriously blows my mind how good Konomama Ichikawa is at keeping his act fresh. He came in all the way back in Toryumon's first class and I'm still seeing him pull off innovative comedy spots that I've never seen before. How many wrestlers can say they've poked Keiji Muto in the butthole during a match?
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Oct 5, 2022 18:00
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What do you think the shortest a match can be and still be a great 5 star + match?
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Oct 5, 2022 18:14
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Shard posted:What do you think the shortest a match can be and still be a great 5 star + match? some squashes have hit me right square in the chest but I feel like they shouldn't actually get 5 stars (but deserve moty nods) I think a really high pace match that's high energy and keeps escalating can get away with being relatively short, like 10 minutes, but I feel like a 5 star match needs some sort of scale and weight that you can't get without that time to escalate
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Oct 5, 2022 18:18
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flatluigi posted:some squashes have hit me right square in the chest but I feel like they shouldn't actually get 5 stars (but deserve moty nods) I feel like at minimum you have to get to at least 30
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Oct 5, 2022 18:33
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eddie vs rey was 13 minutes
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Oct 5, 2022 18:35
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yea ok posted:eddie vs rey was 13 minutes And it got 4.75 for being 17 minutes short of the minimum.
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Oct 5, 2022 18:40
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Ishii-Shibata was about 12. People say that Marvin-KENTA match was a fiver and that was five minutes, but I've never agreed with that one.
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Oct 5, 2022 18:40
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If I ever saw a match that was 5 minutes and felt like 5 stars I would probably study it.
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Oct 5, 2022 18:42
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Shard posted:What do you think the shortest a match can be and still be a great 5 star + match? thirty seconds.
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Oct 5, 2022 18:42
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Shard posted:If I ever saw a match that was 5 minutes and felt like 5 stars I would probably study it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpJpe4jZhNA judge for yourself!
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Oct 5, 2022 18:42
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Shard posted:What do you think the shortest a match can be and still be a great 5 star + match? Brodie Lee beating Cody for the TNT Title is about a thousand stars in my book and the match itself was just over 3 minutes. Everything about that whole thing was just on another level.
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Oct 5, 2022 18:50
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Deathlove posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpJpe4jZhNA Five minutes? That was barely two and a half. It was as great as a match that short can be, but yeah, I don't think it's anywhere near *****.
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Oct 5, 2022 18:57
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Shard posted:What do you think the shortest a match can be and still be a great 5 star + match? However long Lance Archer vs Marko Stunt was.
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Oct 5, 2022 19:03
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Ganso Bomb posted:Brodie Lee beating Cody for the TNT Title is about a thousand stars in my book and the match itself was just over 3 minutes. Everything about that whole thing was just on another level. 
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Oct 5, 2022 19:18
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