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A Yeah sure why not, we're already planning to double cross and/or murder basically every character we've met that's not our family or our best friend. What's one more?
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Oct 6, 2022 15:48
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Crazycryodude posted:A The only reason we're not planning on murdering Gregor is because we sorta did that already. We can still double cross him by destroying the Lots, though.
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Oct 6, 2022 15:58
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I feel like being in his bloodline and using the juicy blood magik to undermine everything he's ever loved or held dear is a good bit of that already yeah. we can go further
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Oct 6, 2022 16:14
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well at some point I assume our dear brother Stephan is going to try and kill Gloria because Ghost Granddad told him to, so we'll hopefully get to kill him.
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Oct 6, 2022 16:15
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Sure, take the deal. This can't backfire on us later, surely.
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Oct 6, 2022 16:19
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Quackles posted:Sure, take the deal. This can't backfire on us later, surely. if we betray every deal at once, they'll be too busy sniping at the other people gunning for our head to ever get to us. its that shrimple
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Oct 6, 2022 16:26
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Crazycryodude posted:A
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Oct 6, 2022 17:35
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You’re always kidnapped regardless of meeting with Felipe, but this time it’s funny to think you’re marked out because he did an absolutely terrible job of op-sec when he set up that meeting with you.
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Oct 6, 2022 19:07
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Crazycryodude posted:A
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Oct 6, 2022 22:36
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A Jumping on the bandwagon. There will be so many people that want to kill us for backstabbing them that none will be able to. Like Mr. Burns' Three Stooges Syndrome. 
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Oct 7, 2022 18:08
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1.24 - Some Light Heresy What's another oath of loyalty on the pile?     Sure thing, boss.  He's a fan.  And true to his word, putting in a good word for our family to the noble society.  Plots for the plot god! Oaths for the oath throne!  Speaking of oaths.     You morons. This was probably Stephan's fault somehow.  What did you do?     There's no way any of that happened like that.    Yeah, that's much more likely.   Stephan stabs another commoner and runs to the family to bail him out.  Doesn't even call for Father. He knows he hosed up.  Of course we're gonna help these idiots. It's gonna cost us a few favours, though.  We could have gone to Father with this, but it would've hurt our Rep and Unity.  We could've also told the dipshit (and Nathan) to deal with the consequences of their actions for once. But we can't take the Rep hit.  This event, like most family-related events, also pops up in the other Paths. If we were a Noble, we could've transferred their case to ourselves and released them as innocent.  If we were a Priest, we could've argued that the heresy in this necessitates the involvement of the Inquisition, and got them released there.  Anyway, we're off to use our only asset: crime.  We get to spend more time with Fockegraben, Linad, and the Prefecture is we take the Noble Path.  What a coincidence.  Fockegraben is not a complex figure. He knows what he wants (money), he knows how to get it (bribes).     That takes care of that.  Shut the gently caress up, Stephan, you've done more damage to the family reputation than anyone else, including Nathan.      Poor Nathan.  This little gently caress-up does mean that we're gonna have to let a few spies disappear for a while.    The payout is entirely predictable. We even got a little bit of Diplomacy out of talking to the nobility.  Time to get into some serious heresy.    I like Father Mark. He shows up in all three Paths, though obviously he's more important in the Priest one.    We are a perfectly legitimate printing shop, after all.    Ah, of course. We are also a "perfectly legitimate" printing shop.     Hell yes.    This here's that good dystheist poo poo. Dystheism (also misotheism, also maltheism) is an umbrella term for a lot of religious thought that boils down to "Wow, God(s) sucks!" This can range from some Gnostics believing the Demiurge (the being(s) that created the world) is malicious and evil, to the Bons Hommes (Cathars) believing that everything physical was created by Sataniel, to more modern interpretations, like Schopenhauer: "This world could not have been the work of an all-loving being, but that of a devil, who had brought creatures into existence in order to delight in the sight of their sufferings." - On The Suffering of the World, 1850 or Bakunin: "If God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him" - God and the State, 1882 There's also a number of interpretations that deal with an evil being actively trying to decieve you, like Descartes' evil demon; or Ahriman, the Zoroastrian malevolent force equal in power to Ahura Mazda, the benevolent force. These do at least posit the existence of a kind, good spirit alongside the evil one.    There's also a lot to be said about this point. What would a person's soul, or their identity be like upon reaching the Christian afterlife, whether good or bad? The Catholics have their purgatory, where the imperfect self is cleansed before entering heaven. Is that then the same person? But then again, you are not the same person today that you were ten years ago - you think differently, feel differently, have different memories and priorities. Hell, pretty much all of your cells have been replaced by this point. Are you no longer you, then? Some real Ship of Theseus hours. The Eastern Orthodox Church, on the other hand, focuses on theosis, a transformation that brings you to be united with God. Though the Church also believes that theosis is something a human can work towards in their earthly life, which a lot of saints, especially the ascetic ones, have done. So is it essentially becoming a terminal to God? Dissolving the self in God's infinity? In that case, you are no longer you either - you don't go to heaven any more than your skin cells post on the forum. Sure, they're a tiny part of the process, but they have no understand of what is happening, and it's not a conscious action on their behalf. This is not even getting into the physical aspect of it, with the concepts of returning to earthly bodies from the afterlife during the Second Coming, which may or may not be a literal thing, depending on the doctrine of any given church. Father Mark brings up a good point, basically.  I especially like his conclusions, where we need to create secular laws, search for secular love, and so on. Because even if he's wrong about the afterlife, he is right in his outlook on the Twins. At least as they have been presented to us - ruthless, merciless, and profoundly unjust. Either way, this is all incredibly heretical, even for the New Faith. -- What do we do with Father Mark's book?  A. A small run, with nothing in the book that could tie it to us, would do wonders for making things a little more tense around Anizotte. Print the book in secret.  B. Oh, any one of our bosses would love to get their hands on this juicy bit of heresy. Snitch on Mark to El Ferro.  C. Why not do both? Print the book openly, and tell El Ferro about it. Play both sides, so we always come out on top.  D. Robert's career could use a boost. Bring the manuscript to Father.
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Oct 7, 2022 19:26
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A would go for a full run but the stat changes dont seem worth. love this guy, definitely needs his work added to the marketplace of ideas
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Oct 7, 2022 19:54
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A. We need more unrest but I'm not digging the costs of going whole-hog on this.
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Oct 7, 2022 19:58
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A Normally I'd like the boosts to the family for telling father, but that would put Unrest dangerously low, it looks like.
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Oct 7, 2022 20:03
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Tell dad If it's good for the familiy, it's good for us
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Oct 7, 2022 20:09
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vote changed, see below
Black Robe fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Oct 8, 2022 |
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Oct 7, 2022 21:47
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B Get our spy network back up to 7.
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Oct 8, 2022 00:49
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We can get more Unrest in other ways, Unity and Reputation we need all the help we can get with because we have less charm and finesse than a baked potato. Tell dad.
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Oct 8, 2022 00:52
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Yeah, telling Dad is probably the best way here.
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Oct 8, 2022 01:17
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A, that's some good heresy
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Oct 8, 2022 01:25
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D, tell dad oh no, what if unrest drops too low when multiple factions are hoarding illegal gunpowder and an antitheist, in a world where we can literally see the Pillar and everybody gets three free deaths, drops by the local Perfectly Legitimate Printshop to spew ultra-heresy
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Oct 8, 2022 02:44
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C Who gives a gently caress what the nobles think of our family when we aim to see their heads on pikes? And wealth and oppulence will only make our family greater targets for our own unruly mob. We need to crank up the pressure in the city.
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Oct 8, 2022 03:06
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A seems like the best choice here? Like assuming we want to do the rebellion, we need to weaken the spy network anyways, so I feel like C isn't exactly ideal. Especially since it... Costs a fair bit of resources?
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Oct 8, 2022 03:28
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In my opinion, the morally correct choice is A, publish the book, but that's also not an option that seems to do very much. Ultimately it's going to destabilize the province some more and give us a point on one of our worst scores. It does very little to advance our goals. And does it ultimately advance Mark's goals that much by comparison? Dystheism is a very hard sell. Still, it's an option. B and C are absolutely out, those seem like they're fast tracks to getting Mark killed. C also requires us to spend our limited resources to, ultimately, screw him over. D, however... there's clear benefit there. It's also possibly a route to a less nasty end to Mark's own story, because we know our father is a better option than any other part of the legal system. It might harm our personal relationship with him, mind -- the last time we brought a case to him it tore him up inside even as it advanced him and the family -- but it will, apparently, make the broader family stronger. And I think that's important to think about. At the end of the day... what exactly are we DOING, here? Every long-term goal has kind of been rugpulled away from us at one point or another. Maybe we can find another one, but right now, there's really only one thing we definitely have left that we know we want and we know where we stand with it. That's our family. And to be frank, if you look at our family, if that Unity collapses? The vast majority of the people we love are probably going to loving die. Nathan without the support network of the family is screwed. Gloria possibly even worse off. Our mother might straight up die of the shock, and even if she doesn't, what is she going to do? Where is she going to go? The breakup might also outright kill Robert from heartbreak, and that's provided the blood magic oath doesn't do so. Only Stephan might have a chance at surviving, but to be frank I'd doubt even that -- Stephan's decision-making is for poo poo, the odds of him making his own way right now seem low. And I'm willing to tolerate him for the sake of the rest of the family. Reputation and Wealth are means to an end, and that end is the family. Only one option here gives us Unity. D, for me. Cross our fingers and hope for the best for Father Mark. (Also, while Mark makes some sound points on the afterlife, I do remember -- we've SEEN our ancestors past Gregor in spirit, at least once, right? They were kind of muffled in the background in the family crypt. That suggests they or some part of them are still around, which does poke holes in his afterlife theory, though not his this-life theory.) Redeye Flight fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Oct 8, 2022 |
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Oct 8, 2022 03:48
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I vote D. Reputation seems a lot harder to gain than unrest, IMO. Still - This might come back to bite us. Unrest is already pretty low, and with our stats...the next opportunity might not be so kind.
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Oct 8, 2022 04:11
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Redeye Flight posted:In my opinion, the morally correct choice is A, publish the book, but that's also not an option that seems to do very much. Ultimately it's going to destabilize the province some more and give us a point on one of our worst scores. It does very little to advance our goals. And does it ultimately advance Mark's goals that much by comparison? Dystheism is a very hard sell. Still, it's an option. Stoutly reasoned
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Oct 8, 2022 04:11
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oh hi, mark D
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Oct 8, 2022 04:15
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D
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Oct 8, 2022 04:29
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Just finished my first lotless run and I get what you were saying about centerism now Kayten. gently caress me is this game fun but also ideologically blind as hell
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Oct 8, 2022 07:24
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sebmojo posted:Stoutly reasoned
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Oct 8, 2022 07:41
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Okay, yeah, I'm convinced. Changing my vote from A to D.
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Oct 8, 2022 08:59
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1.25 - It's Quiet, Too Quiet Another quick one today, we had an important event pop up.  This is true, in a way. The Church is blatantly used to maintain the Empire as divinely ordained (see also: the Russian Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church). Undermining the Church so thoroughly would lead to greater unrest against the Empire in general.   Time to lie to our clients.  Father, our perfectly legitimate printing shop approached by a heretic!   Oh hey, that worked out way better than the poet case!  And kept Mark out of the hands of the Inquisition! In the Priest Path, we'll see just how much the Inquisition does not gently caress around with serious heresy.  Was Mark popular? Very much so, in certain circles.  Things have calmed down a little.  But the family is doing well, at least.  Hey, guess what! We're hosed!  For every career, there is a number of events for the major career stats, one for each hitting 2 and 8, which let us course correct at a cost; and one for each hitting 0 and 10, which gently caress us, often permanently.   This is our punishment for letting Unrest drop too low.  Sealed orders, to be burned immediately. Things must be urgent.   Alright, crime time.  Let's get our lieutenants on the case.     They already know just the right people, perfect.  How to quickly organize a protest.   Just as planned.  Wait, poo poo, no.     God drat, our crowd isn't even ready to gently caress up a few gendarmes. Hell, we had students willing to to go up against the Legion back in the capital, this is weak poo poo. -- What do we do?  A. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buvSIrFi0Hw  B. This has gone tits up, time to bail. Lay low and wait this out.  If only our Manipulation hadn't been awful, we could've approached this in a different way.
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Oct 8, 2022 19:29
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oh thank the twins we hit the threshold for something besides scheming A - easy come, easy go on those familial stats, but I don't think we can afford for unrest to get any lower.
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Oct 8, 2022 19:42
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lmao, good thing we gave that quest to dad! A maybe we can get manipulation out the gutter before it gets us killed
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Oct 8, 2022 19:53
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...goddamnit, thread. Riot before we become so useless that we can't.
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Oct 8, 2022 19:58
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A Lmao we hosed over Father Mark and all we're going to get out of it is breaking even, goons are so good at this game
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Oct 8, 2022 20:02
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A. Uh oh, I don't have enough willpower to resist posting "told you so."
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Oct 8, 2022 20:15
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Uh oh! A
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Oct 8, 2022 20:23
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B Why piss away the gains in family relations for 2 nobodies we never heard of before tonight's events? To get +1 Manipulation? What purpose will that serve? Most checks we've seen in the last few updates require 12 or higher, so 9 Manipulation wouldn't change anything. There's been a good post about making family a goal to strive for on this very page. I say we keep the family relations good.
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Oct 8, 2022 21:35
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its less "pissing away our gains for nobodies" and more "not being one check away from being black bagged and murdered for failure at our one job by our boss" i think
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Oct 8, 2022 21:45
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