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ulmont posted:You just begged the question. Art is not a deterministic problem to be solved like a chess or chemistry puzzle. If a future hard AI decides to become a novelist, sure, but a neural net as they exist now does not have human insight or subjectivity, all it can do is reproduce surface-level text in different combinations
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Oct 7, 2022 13:50
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it's gonna put all KU/serial authors out of a job then
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Oct 7, 2022 13:58
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General Battuta posted:Really the concern is not so much about computers making art as it is about the fact that artists already can't make money and capitalists would really like to get rid of them and control the generative process themselves. Computers making art is just a good tool to achieve that goal. Here's a post from the Solo RPG thread in the Traditional Games forum on the site. Doctor Zero posted:Because I am easily distracted by shiny objects, I've been playing around with AI art, and thought it would be a great tool for solo RPGs. To test this hypothesis, I'm playing a game of The Wretched and instead of writing or narrating the game, I figured it would be cool to do a graphic novel with the AI Art (midjourney) as the artist. If this works out (and it seems like it does), I'll go back to my Starforged game using midjourney. Granted this stuff isn't going to win any awards, but should this person be forbidden from doing it because they did not either pay a professional artist to do it or learn the art skills to do that themselves? Quality aside, this is a Sci-Fi/Fantasy creative endeavor that would not exist in this form without AI Art.
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Oct 7, 2022 14:07
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Ask me again when we find out whether Wizards or whoever else publishes RPGs starts using AI generated art instead of paying artists. e: and maybe it's not even Wizards that artists need to worry about, it's the people who pay a little for mid to low quality work, the periphery of the ecosystem where an artist could get started
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Oct 7, 2022 14:30
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Why insist on a live author when The Death of the Author?
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Oct 7, 2022 14:36
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General Battuta posted:Ask me again when we find out whether Wizards or whoever else publishes RPGs starts using AI generated art instead of paying artists. My understanding is that almost all webcomic artists make most of their actual income on commissions drawing people's d&d characters and fursonas. So that's gone. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Oct 7, 2022 |
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Oct 7, 2022 14:37
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General Battuta posted:They're the same picture. I gotta say there are a whole lot of people that are going to be really excited when they find out they're rich and powerful now instead of middle class.
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Oct 7, 2022 15:26
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Time for a reread of Count Zero and Pattern Recognition.
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Oct 7, 2022 17:34
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Is there anything in the realistic-ish rocketships genre that's not made by weird right wing people?
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Oct 7, 2022 18:40
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VostokProgram posted:Is there anything in the realistic-ish rocketships genre that's not made by weird right wing people? Stanislaw Lem’s Pirx the Pilot stories come to mind. Far more realistic rocket fiction from the Soviet 60s than his Ijon Tichy stories
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Oct 7, 2022 19:00
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VostokProgram posted:Is there anything in the realistic-ish rocketships genre that's not made by weird right wing people? Chanur series, cj cherryh (fairly hard traveler esque sci fi, the only big hand wave is warp drives)
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Oct 7, 2022 19:34
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VostokProgram posted:Is there anything in the realistic-ish rocketships genre that's not made by weird right wing people? Lady Astronaut maybe? Competency porn alt history trying to get to space with 1960s tech because earth is slow-hosed.
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Oct 7, 2022 19:36
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What's competency porn?
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Oct 7, 2022 20:33
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VostokProgram posted:What's competency porn? McGyver fiction aka anything written by Andy Weir.
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Oct 7, 2022 20:36
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That sounds hella badass
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Oct 7, 2022 20:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:And the problem is that working artists need to be able to make money making X in order to have the time and develop the skill set that leads to the next Y. Martha Wells has been writing for decades before she came up with Murderbot (to just pick one example that springs to mind).
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Oct 7, 2022 22:33
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Lord Bob posted:Lady Astronaut maybe? Competency porn alt history trying to get to space with 1960s tech because earth is slow-hosed. Absolutely good poo poo. Not merely competence porn, it has stuff to say. Women and minorities front and center.
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Oct 7, 2022 22:39
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What artists don’t want you to know is that they can’t stop themselves from making art and really it should be considered compulsive behavior
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Oct 7, 2022 22:45
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VostokProgram posted:Is there anything in the realistic-ish rocketships genre that's not made by weird right wing people? Anything by Alastair Reynolds would definitely qualify unless he has some unfortunate political views I don’t know about. Unless you’re looking for stuff that’s not far-future hard sci fi.
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Oct 7, 2022 22:51
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Turn Coat (Dresden Files #11) by Jim Butcher - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001V6P124/ Starship Troopers by Robert A Heinlein - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EYTK2C/
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Oct 7, 2022 22:54
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General Battuta posted:All I will say is that there is an element of this that is on topic. Which is, the thread has in the past had conversations about whether it's good or bad that fantasy is becoming increasingly algorithm-driven, increasingly about shifting startup costs onto the author and away from the publisher, increasingly about creating product in huge volume to hit very targeted niches (often by exploiting the algorithm). Actual serious question: how would you go about creating a democratized publisher? Assume we can't decapitate the board and nationalize Penguin Random House. Best I've got is to have a bunch of authors successful enough to have discretionary funds to come together to create their own co-op imprint, buy some press time, and promote the work of newer authors in addition to all the other work they do. I also don't see any group with that level of income and stature being both in a position and inclined to share, let alone the shop succeeding without someone really aggressively riding herd on the staff/creators, staying focused for more than ten minutes, no affairs, and so on.
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Oct 7, 2022 23:30
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Foxfire_ posted:Is this actually a thing? My impression was that as an aspiring author, you have always needed a day job/working spouse and that even when you get to the point where you're starting to get traditional publishing contracts, a first-couple-books advance is single digit thousands per book, not anything that you could actually live on. It's true in that it typically takes a few books to get off the ground even with day job etc. Your first effort likely isn't your best.
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Oct 7, 2022 23:54
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Just finished up the first Red Rising audiobook today. I wasn't aware it was a hunger gamey sort of book which really isn't my thing normally, but it was still pretty entertaining and I'd rate it a solid 7/10. Also at the end of the audiobook they did a really cool rendition of the forbidden song that I almost missed which was also cool as hell and retroactively made me like the book better. I heard the next book turns more into spaceships sort of deal and more of a regular sci-fi book, is that true? If so I think I'll probably like it better, that's kind of what I was expecting with the first one. Definitely going to give it a go next time I'm at work.
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Oct 8, 2022 00:29
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:Just finished up the first Red Rising audiobook today. I wasn't aware it was a hunger gamey sort of book which really isn't my thing normally, but it was still pretty entertaining and I'd rate it a solid 7/10. Also at the end of the audiobook they did a really cool rendition of the forbidden song that I almost missed which was also cool as hell and retroactively made me like the book better. I heard the next book turns more into spaceships sort of deal and more of a regular sci-fi book, is that true? If so I think I'll probably like it better, that's kind of what I was expecting with the first one. Definitely going to give it a go next time I'm at work. It's pretty much Star Wars Hunger Games. If you liked the first book, you'll likely enjoy the rest of the first trilogy. The second trilogy starting with Iron Gold is a somewhat different beast. In the first trilogy the characters are plucky teen rebels fighting against the system. In the second trilogy they have to deal with all the messy, difficult consequences of what they did in the first trilogy. It's a more adult take on things - and not in the "along with blood and guts we get to see titties, too!" sense. It's more about growing all the way and taking responsibility.
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Oct 8, 2022 01:15
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Groke posted:Absolutely good poo poo. Not merely competence porn, it has stuff to say. Women and minorities front and center. Seconded. I'll quibble though. The author doesn't say this stuff. She puts you in the heads of people who are living through it, and it turns out being a woman in the 60s sucked really badly. I mean, I knew that but I got a sense of what it felt like from these books. Besides being really insightful about the human condition, you get an awful lot of just plain rocket porn, a trip to mars, and a locked room murder mystery on the moon.
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Oct 8, 2022 01:46
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mllaneza posted:Seconded. I'll quibble though. The author doesn't say this stuff. She puts you in the heads of people who are living through it, and it turns out being a woman in the 60s sucked really badly. I mean, I knew that but I got a sense of what it felt like from these books. Besides being really insightful about the human condition, you get an awful lot of just plain rocket porn, a trip to mars, and a locked room murder mystery on the moon. Yeah 3 was my favorite, but I enjoyed them all
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Oct 8, 2022 02:15
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:Just finished up the first Red Rising audiobook today. I wasn't aware it was a hunger gamey sort of book which really isn't my thing normally, but it was still pretty entertaining and I'd rate it a solid 7/10. Also at the end of the audiobook they did a really cool rendition of the forbidden song that I almost missed which was also cool as hell and retroactively made me like the book better. I heard the next book turns more into spaceships sort of deal and more of a regular sci-fi book, is that true? If so I think I'll probably like it better, that's kind of what I was expecting with the first one. Definitely going to give it a go next time I'm at work. I'd wager you're going to like the rest of the trilogy, and the second trilogy too, more than the first book. Which is good, if you liked the first book well enough already.
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Oct 8, 2022 03:06
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daniel o'malley's new checquy book should be out soon
Doktor Avalanche fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Oct 8, 2022 |
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Oct 8, 2022 03:13
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VostokProgram posted:Is there anything in the realistic-ish rocketships genre that's not made by weird right wing people? Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy and Aurora.
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Oct 8, 2022 03:47
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Doktor Avalanche posted:daniel o'malley's new checquy book should be out soon that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time
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Oct 8, 2022 05:42
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mllaneza posted:Seconded. I'll quibble though. The author doesn't say this stuff. She puts you in the heads of people who are living through it, and it turns out being a woman in the 60s sucked really badly. I mean, I knew that but I got a sense of what it felt like from these books. Besides being really insightful about the human condition, you get an awful lot of just plain rocket porn, a trip to mars, and a locked room murder mystery on the moon. And then of course also rocket science porn, and lots of it. Love those books.
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Oct 8, 2022 10:36
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VostokProgram posted:Is there anything in the realistic-ish rocketships genre that's not made by weird right wing people?  lol there's a few right wing writers on the oppose side, notably, Silverberg Greg Egan has done extensive work with asylum seekers in Australia's concentration camps C J Cherryh probably Ken MacLeod is some kind of variety of communist Iain M Banks was a vocal lefty
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Oct 8, 2022 10:46
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I borrowed Calculating Stars from the library yesterday and so far I am loving every word of it. This book is like crack for me. I'll probably burn through it in four days I took the entire list of recommendations from when I asked about space mysteries a while back with me too. Sadly they didn't have a whole lot of those. I think they just don't keep older fiction books maybe. However I did find Dark Orbit and bring that home so there will be at least one mystery in my future.
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Oct 8, 2022 16:59
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Everyone posted:It's pretty much Star Wars Hunger Games. If you liked the first book, you'll likely enjoy the rest of the first trilogy. The second trilogy starting with Iron Gold is a somewhat different beast. In the first trilogy the characters are plucky teen rebels fighting against the system. In the second trilogy they have to deal with all the messy, difficult consequences of what they did in the first trilogy. It's a more adult take on things - and not in the "along with blood and guts we get to see titties, too!" sense. It's more about growing all the way and taking responsibility. Sounds good to me. It's kind of hard to explain, but I've never really been invested in books just because of action or whatever, I like it when stuff happens and you know there are going to be consequences to it, it gives a real "what's going to happen next?" vibe. That felt a little lacking in this book. Like in this book When Darrow decided to start loving up the proctors, I just knew he wouldn't actually get in any real trouble for it and they'd come down to congratulate him at the end
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Oct 8, 2022 17:08
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Next time General Battuta is feeling hard done by because the Baru Cormorant novels are shortened to The Traitor etc. in the UK, he can perhaps console himself with a copy of Tamsyn Muir's famous German SF novel, I'm Gideon.
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Oct 8, 2022 17:08
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Re: politics; Eric Flint was an old Trotskyite.
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Oct 8, 2022 17:32
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I wonder how that intersects with that absolutely insane afterword in one of the Ringo/Kratman Posleen War books about how the collapse of the Soviet Union was actually a plot to release communist sleeper agents into Europe and America to bring about global UN-backed communism. Like surely those guys had to bump into each other sometimes right? Is that unhinged conspiracy theory purely based on personal dislike? That would be funny
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Oct 8, 2022 17:38
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“It would be too hard to figure out how to pay all of the artists used to train my ML art bot” Then make another ML bot to analyze the output of the first bot and tell you what percentage it resembles specific pieces from its corpus, and pay out according to the percentage. Just as a tutor is compensated for instructing a student, this is how the artists should be compensated for their contributions in instructing the bot. The bot makers should not be allowed to shirk their responsibility to compensate their contributors just because ML bots are “new”. Where should that money come from? Tough question. In a better world perhaps ML derived art would not be permitted to be commercialized, thus saving the headache and guaranteeing a free sandbox for loving around with prompts. In the real, capitalist world, that is unavoidable. So the people who commercialize ML derived art should understand that their revenue will be reduced by a percentage taken to pay the relevant corpus participants. Prompt-enterers should be required to sign a contract agreeing to these terms if they commercialize the output of their prompt. ML bit creators should face a penalty if they include works in the corpus without explicit contractual agreement by their owners, or if said owners can prove they were not paid for commercialized derivations of their work. The training corpus of each publicly-available ML bot should be an immutable and publicly-available legal document, to reduce liability for the bot’s creator. Thus there may arise a secondary market for ML bot bounty hunters that can crawl the web and determine if commercially-used derived pieces match closely enough to a client artist’s work to open a legal case. Anyway I’m about halfway through Cage of Souls and I’ve been thoroughly sucked in by the plot and world building. I found the narrators voice tough to enjoy at first, and it can be hard to keep with fast scene changes & plot turns from his perspective. But that’s maybe more of an audiobook problem than a writing problem.
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Oct 8, 2022 17:42
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Drunk Driver Dad posted:Sounds good to me. It's kind of hard to explain, but I've never really been invested in books just because of action or whatever, I like it when stuff happens and you know there are going to be consequences to it, it gives a real "what's going to happen next?" vibe. That felt a little lacking in this book. Like in this book When Darrow decided to start loving up the proctors, I just knew he wouldn't actually get in any real trouble for it and they'd come down to congratulate him at the end You should enjoy the next book more, then.
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Oct 8, 2022 18:04
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Something Else: yeah it doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem to try and sort out an approximation of artist credit, even for the prompts that aren't "in the style of very specific artist". In practice it's probably going to take government legislation though.
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Oct 9, 2022 00:10
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