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Maneck posted:
It's not a seems like, they explicitly said anything legacy is not going to be produced and once it's sold out it's gone. This game is gonna continue quietly dying due to Wilson's mismanagement.
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Oct 9, 2022 06:22
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Hackjack posted:Had someone asked me ten years ago, I actually would have predicted that the miniature manufacturing method of the future would be 3D printing the molds rather than the products. It is! Nearly every industry does it that way, or at least 3d prints the master to create conventional molds from it.
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Oct 9, 2022 15:45
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zerofiend posted:It's not a seems like, they explicitly said anything legacy is not going to be produced and once it's sold out it's gone. It is Skornergy in corporate strategy. That encapsulates why Privateer Press has so many bitter ex-players. The games are good (although I am not sold on the ultra jank that is Mk. 4 unit movement), the models are good, and the decision making by the company with respect to how to sell the first two is brutal and demoralizing. They are switching to 3D printing, a production method which provides unfathomable flexiblity in what models they produce, in order to: 1. produce the same models over and over again by the thousands, while 2. halting production on "legacy" models, including those for whom they have electronic sculpts available and many of which they released within the past year or two. They've done this in the name of launching a new edition, which ends support for all preexisting (now "legacy") models. And they cannot produce enough new models for the launch. But they are launching anyway. So in order to avoid nothing but Khador mirror matches for months, they will completely depend on players having "legacy" models. Models which PP refuse to support or sell going forward, because of number 2. above. Those legacy armies will be in the game, in a limited format, for people who happen to have the right models. But if an existing player wants to play a legacy faction and has a gap in their collection which would block them, they'll get no help from PP. Maneck fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Oct 10, 2022 |
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Oct 10, 2022 15:42
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Maneck posted:It is Skornergy in corporate strategy. That encapsulates why Privateer Press has so many bitter ex-players. The games are good (although I am not sold on the ultra jank that is Mk. 4 unit movement), the models are good, and the decision making by the company with respect to how to sell the first two is brutal and demoralizing. As an old player having my collection 'squatted' (or whatever it is we say these days) I thought, "well it's not that bad, I just get to play with my existing stuff for longer before I have to buy anything new, the game is cool and good and I'm used to it being 'other people' that get the hot new stuff, I don't begrudge anyone of it, this is fine". But reading what you just said, from the perspective of a new player, you're absolutely right. This is loving crazy. "Oh what's that cool game you're playing? I want in!" "You cant, for years" "Ok, never mind, 40k it is!" You're totally right. This is so bad.
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Oct 10, 2022 17:00
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God, yeah. Imagine looking at Legion as a new player and being told "maybe you'll have models in late 2023?"
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Oct 10, 2022 17:07
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Lol, probably should have put more effort into making a playable game before squatting everything.
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Oct 10, 2022 17:18
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Iron Crowned posted:Lol, probably should have put more effort into making a playable game before squatting everything. Firing off something incomplete and without enough playtesting is like official company strategy for them after Mk3's disastrous launch
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Oct 10, 2022 21:53
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It is all so dumb and just kills any drive I have to take my models out again. I really like the theme of Blindwater Congregation and painting them was giving me some unique challenges. I'd be thrilled to play them again. But even if I got into the new edition, I'd never be able to get any of the missing pieces I need. Anything I did not get essentially before Covid is gone or is going to be tricky to get. Future support is going to be a ways off for either my Mercs or Minions. Just an endless series of self inflicted wounds
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Oct 10, 2022 22:02
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I was considering starting up Warmachine again but now I'm definitely going to wait. This launch is.............. curious, to put it charitably. On the upside, I finally, after two years, played a game of Warcaster and it's actually really good
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Oct 11, 2022 00:59
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Warcaster is really good imo and I'd rather play it than warmachine tbh
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Oct 11, 2022 01:12
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S.J. posted:Warcaster is really good imo and I'd rather play it than warmachine tbh I agree. The changes to the core rules in MKIV look fine to me, but I'd rather play Warcaster than any version of Warmachine. And of course the new force construction rules and "Legacy" system and etc are basically the main reason I'm holding off on more Warmachine, at least until next summer or whatever when it officially launches and they unveil more. In the meantime, Warcaster (and Monpoc) are more than good enough for me.
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Oct 11, 2022 01:18
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The current edition of MonPoc is probably the best game they've ever made, and I genuinely mean that. Tons of cool options, plays fast, easy to learn and teach, some of the best models in miniature gaming IMO, and a very cheap floor as far as entry costs are concerned. Plus it doesn't take up a ton of table space and you get really cool center piece models, and the end of every game looks like an actual battle took place instead of just removing models here and there. Actually MonPoc is probably just one of the best miniature games on the market period and I wish more people played it.
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Oct 11, 2022 01:30
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S.J. posted:The current edition of MonPoc is probably the best game they've ever made, and I genuinely mean that. Tons of cool options, plays fast, easy to learn and teach, some of the best models in miniature gaming IMO, and a very cheap floor as far as entry costs are concerned. Plus it doesn't take up a ton of table space and you get really cool center piece models, and the end of every game looks like an actual battle took place instead of just removing models here and there. It's a shame they didn't fix the first player discrepancy quick enough since my meta fell off entirely because of that. Otherwise it's a banger of a game and I've always wished I had an opportunity/scene to jump back in to
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Oct 11, 2022 01:47
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S.J. posted:The current edition of MonPoc is probably the best game they've ever made, and I genuinely mean that. Tons of cool options, plays fast, easy to learn and teach, some of the best models in miniature gaming IMO, and a very cheap floor as far as entry costs are concerned. Plus it doesn't take up a ton of table space and you get really cool center piece models, and the end of every game looks like an actual battle took place instead of just removing models here and there. Too many people are familiar with Privateer's consistent habit to abandon a game without much notice. Level 7 stuff, High Command, RiotQuest probably now, and Warcaster has been silent on any sort of updates for quite a while even. Even when a game is good that will spook people right off.
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Oct 11, 2022 02:01
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They didn't announce it as far as I know, but the most recent mercenaries released for Warcaster have a fifth faction icon, so still alive, I geuss?
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Oct 11, 2022 02:05
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I just read a post in the Warcaster facebook group from Doug Hamilton that most of their effort is focused on MKIV right now but they're still working on Warcaster stuff here and there. So perhaps sometime next year there'll be more Warcaster news (timeline is my own speculation)
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Oct 11, 2022 02:17
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I have to say that this is probably one of the fastest turns from excitement release to bitterness that I have witnessed. To make sure I get this right, I will no longer be able to buy any missing elements from the prior version - so, for example, if I did not get Major Gibbs because he came out after I had stopped playing, I won't be able to get him now? And also, this doesn't actually matter, because Mercenaries are basically turning into six specific Legacy armies, which does not include the Llaelese Resistance, so I can't actually use my existing force except if it happens to have enough Steelhead elements to work as that legacy list? Big oof. 
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Oct 11, 2022 14:14
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I've definitely been interested in getting some MonPoc stuff, but I'm not sure where to start on it.
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Oct 11, 2022 14:19
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Ashcans posted:I have to say that this is probably one of the fastest turns from excitement release to bitterness that I have witnessed. Basically correct, yeah. Anything not explicitly Mk4 is no longer in production and will be gone once sold out. I was really excited too until I played a game with the beta rules and the unit movement is just loving terrible.
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Oct 11, 2022 17:10
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I honestly love the unit movement but I liked it in warcaster too. Definitely takes getting used to regardless though.
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Oct 11, 2022 17:44
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My play group was slow to adopt mk3. I cannot imagine mk4 taking its place in that group for a long long time. People own colossals and want to use them.
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Oct 11, 2022 18:11
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I don't really play competitively so the new competitive rules are less of a problem for me but I'm pretty peeved that I wouldn't be able to use my Stormblades and Gun Mages in the same list since for a time they were all I owned and I used them in every game. And who knows how the "open format" whatever is gonna work. I'm still willing to give it a chance but I'm really hoping this poo poo doesn't leak into Monpoc and Warcaster. EDIT: gently caress, I still have the original Black 13th that are all scaled wrong, I need to pick up the newer version before they go out of print  EDIT EDIT: Just ordered them from PP lmao FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Oct 11, 2022 |
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Oct 11, 2022 22:46
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WMH Brawl is really popular here and it's a quality game. To discontinue literally every model involved in a game that could have been resurrected with better management is a terrible move and I will probably never buy into any of the new edition until it has been established for quite a while
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Oct 12, 2022 01:21
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Ashcans posted:I have to say that this is probably one of the fastest turns from excitement release to bitterness that I have witnessed. I'm still excited to see how things go when they hit launch. My take here is was basically seeking validation that things that seem to be bad ideas are, in fact, bad ideas - contrary to the cult-lite posting in Facebook groups. Basically I am cringing, watching Privateer Press do things that throw money away and actively harm the launch of a new edition - while simultaneously hoping it doesn't sink the ship. Having one product available for new players at the launch of a new edition is a significant error! But maybe they'll get through it. As to the end of legacy support, apparently the demand for legacy models shocked Privateer Press. It's almost as if they did zero to promote the game for years, leading to surprise when making some noise sold a literal piles of product they had written off (significant error!). That plus it being so incomprehensibly stupid to refuse to sell models that people want, and could use in the new version of the game, and which can produce without anything but some computer time - that I still believe they might reverse course. The caveat to this hope is that anything that's pre-CAD era is probably a hopeless cause. Well, hopeless for Privateer Press. If Mk. 4 really takes off, someone will just get busy with a 3D scanner and create .stl's of Privateer Press' abandoned products. Or people will just adopt proxies. For models in a game that Privateer Press is promoting and has models for, but won't sell (seriously brutal error).
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Oct 12, 2022 03:52
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A wargame lives and dies on the playerbase, telling your entire existing playerbase to buy a new $200 starter at launch or not bother is kind of wild, especially when a lot of them have already switched back to 40k. The mk3 launch got about 15 ex-players around here to pay attention for a while and play a bunch of games and buy a bunch of those cheap starter boxes
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Oct 12, 2022 04:46
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I used to think it was impossible for a major gaming company to mangle a launch for a new version of a flagship product worse than GW did with age of sigmar but here we are.
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Oct 12, 2022 13:34
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xiw posted:A wargame lives and dies on the playerbase, telling your entire existing playerbase to buy a new $200 starter at launch or not bother is kind of wild, especially when a lot of them have already switched back to 40k. Starter sets should always be a loss leader.
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Oct 12, 2022 13:46
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Exinos posted:I used to think it was impossible for a major gaming company to mangle a launch for a new version of a flagship product worse than GW did with age of sigmar but here we are. Say what you will, Privateer Press is pretty great at taking things beyond what GW would. Absolute shame it’s part of a launch this time around. I’m hoping that they can course correct, but who knows at this point?
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Oct 12, 2022 13:55
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I just now realized that if I want Cephalyx and Grymkin I have to buy them soon unless I want to bet on them being redone in mkiv. Goddamn it PP. Definitely going to just stick to monpoc and Warcaster and nonPP games until MKIV's future is clearer. I feel like I'm in a bizzaro universe where GW is more reliable and clear than PP
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Oct 12, 2022 15:01
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The only way PP's decisions make sense to me is that they're functioning in "demo mode" and looking to get the company bought out. Shutting down conventional production, retiring the existing product line, and going all-in on unstable ground isn't something you do to benefit the company or its customers. What it does do is show that your company still has IP that might be worth buying, and the 3D printing angle is the cheapest imaginable way to stay "in business" - as a placeholder - until someone else starts paying the bills or takes over production.
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Oct 12, 2022 15:11
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FrostyPox posted:I feel like I'm in a bizzaro universe where GW is more reliable and clear than PP GW's "new" Marketing arm is brilliant, but I will just never love playing 40K/AoS after playing WarmaHordes and a handful of other systems. The fundamental "Movement Phase, Shoot Phase, Charge Phase, Fight Phase" mechanics that they'll never ever get rid of is fundamentally so outdated.
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Oct 12, 2022 15:20
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GW fucks up a lot of stuff, but they have generally been very good about letting people buy legacy/existing models for much longer than anyone would rightfully want them.
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Oct 12, 2022 15:47
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Ashcans posted:GW fucks up a lot of stuff, but they have generally been very good about letting people buy legacy/existing models for much longer than anyone would rightfully want them. This pretty much. No doubt Warmachine is a much better game than anything GW produces, but this whole "We're not blowing up the universe, that'd be silly. We ARE completely deleting every Warmachine model we've made up to this point" is a, like, Mega-GW move. Their desire to reduce SKUs is understandable but how do they plan to avoid it happening in the future? Are they just going to sell things entirely in these large sets? That'll be an incredibly hard sell. I'd really like to see a more detailed roll out plan, even one without dates. Right now there's gonna be, what, four "Tournament Viable" Armies (Storm Legion, Sea Raiders, Winter Korps, Spooky Elves) til mid 2023? And they're all basically going to include the same units, one Storm Legion army is going to be exactly like another. I don't know, I don't like it. I'm willing to see how it plays out. I just hope it doesn't kill PP entirely since they still have games I am 100% on board with. I'd like to still be 100% on board with Warmachine but I am very uneasy with things so far. EDIT: Four purchasable tournament viable armies, I should say. You can play the Legacy armies, I guess, but they won't be available to buy FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Oct 12, 2022 |
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Oct 12, 2022 23:11
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No, they're going to be limiting the number of models available for each army and releasing more armies. Presumably this also makes rebalancing much easier down the line. How limited that ends up being in the long term remains to be seen though. The SKU bloat is beyond massive though and this isn't a direct response to that I feel as much as it's conveniently a way to also address that issue from a supply point of view.
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Oct 13, 2022 00:18
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S.J. posted:No, they're going to be limiting the number of models available for each army and releasing more armies. Presumably this also makes rebalancing much easier down the line. How limited that ends up being in the long term remains to be seen though. The SKU bloat is beyond massive though and this isn't a direct response to that I feel as much as it's conveniently a way to also address that issue from a supply point of view. I suppose as long as they still sell the little battlebox starter sets that's not so bad but I'm still apprehensive I think a 200 dollar one-player set is going to be a very tough sell for a new player. FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 01:02
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FrostyPox posted:I suppose as long as they still sell the little battlebox starter sets that's not so bad but I'm still apprehensive No battle boxes. Those were a one off for Gen-Con. That sold insanely well. Yet they're not going to do that going forward.
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Oct 13, 2022 03:40
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I'm spit balling here, but one thing they could have done is gone for a "miniatures agnostic" approach for legacy armies where you can just declare a mini represents a new mk4 stat block and later make models that could be used for those roles. Goon project to buy the ip?
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Oct 13, 2022 03:52
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PP death pool thread when? I really don't see war machine growing when the cost of entry is so high.
FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 12:19
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Death Thread MkIV
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Oct 13, 2022 12:55
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Do not make another death thread, we've already seen multiple times what that leads to
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Oct 13, 2022 12:56
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