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Whatever the fine for breaking the cost cap is, it should be paid out to the W Series so they can keep the lights on and the wheels spinning.
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Oct 11, 2022 07:42
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A $1 overspend for any team should result in a full year ban for RBR. There I fixed the FIA
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Oct 11, 2022 07:53
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Pirate Radar posted:Whatever the fine for breaking the cost cap is, it should be paid out to the W Series so they can keep the lights on and the wheels spinning. Chad dropping the guillotine blade on horner's neck
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Oct 11, 2022 07:58
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This wouldn't have happened if Bernie was still in charge!
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Oct 11, 2022 08:06
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One of the YouTube channels suggested they hit Red Bull with a 200 manufacturer point fine for the infringement, which would set a precedent that this is a big deal with big consequences, but not change their ranking in the 2021 final standings. I like the idea of staking out an early enforcement position, especially if the FIA also loops in some wind tunnel or CFD allotment penalties.
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Oct 11, 2022 08:33
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MustardFacial posted:A $1 overspend for any team should result in a full year ban for RBR. Hard to disagree with this reasoned argument
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Oct 11, 2022 09:05
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EoRaptor posted:One of the YouTube channels suggested they hit Red Bull with a 200 manufacturer point fine for the infringement, which would set a precedent that this is a big deal with big consequences, but not change their ranking in the 2021 final standings. I like the idea of staking out an early enforcement position, especially if the FIA also loops in some wind tunnel or CFD allotment penalties. enforcement in spirit
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Oct 11, 2022 09:09
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EoRaptor posted:One of the YouTube channels suggested they hit Red Bull with a 200 manufacturer point fine for the infringement, which would set a precedent that this is a big deal with big consequences, but not change their ranking in the 2021 final standings. I like the idea of staking out an early enforcement position, especially if the FIA also loops in some wind tunnel or CFD allotment penalties. Yeah but to obviously do something that is intended to look big but actually make zero difference is just confirming that they won't be reversing any previous WDC or WCC's due to <5% cost cap breaches. At which point the cap becomes cap + 5%, because who wouldn't breach it to win WDC or WCC with a guarantee that F1 will be too spineless to claw it back later. Whatever they do has to actually hurt even a little bit. My guess would be a slight reduction in their 2023 cost cap or wind tunnel time or something, weak and useless but more than nothing. Also isn't there strong speculation that Red Bull are also going to blow through the cost cap this year? They themselves have already made noises to the media about it. What happens when the same team wins two years in a row while blowing the cost cap two years in a row? At what point do you either have to strip a championship or scrap the cap?
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Oct 11, 2022 09:42
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Pirate Radar posted:Adding to the confusion of the ending, Leclerc apparently didn’t know that was the last lap until he crossed the line. Nobody knew for sure, if you check the post-race audio. Ocon asked his engineer like 4 times “are you sure? I thought we had 1 more?” Since he was still actively defending against Lewis. Lewis thought he had another kap to try and overtake, and Alonso sounded pretty upset as well considering his photo finish with Seb. As said, Max crossed the line with 3 seconds on the clock, so he should as per the rules have gone 2 extra laps (one with 3 seconds counting down almost immediately, then crossing the start with 0 seconds on the timer which triggers the final lap). Bit for some reason race direction ended it one lap to soon (it’s cause they are hacks). So much for adhering closely to the rules!
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Oct 11, 2022 10:08
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Max would be a terrible LeMans 24hr driver if he couldn't slow down 3's at the end when he had a 20+s lead.
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Oct 11, 2022 10:43
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Deltasquid posted:As said, Max crossed the line with 3 seconds on the clock, so he should as per the rules have gone 2 extra laps (one with 3 seconds counting down almost immediately, then crossing the start with 0 seconds on the timer which triggers the final lap). Bit for some reason race direction ended it one lap to soon (it’s cause they are hacks). I heard something explain it as if you are at the end of the two hour race time limit you go one extra lap once the clock hits zero and if you are at the end of the three hour total time limit you stop once the lead car crosses the line at zero.
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Oct 11, 2022 11:06
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Blackhawk posted:Yeah but to obviously do something that is intended to look big but actually make zero difference is just confirming that they won't be reversing any previous WDC or WCC's due to <5% cost cap breaches. At which point the cap becomes cap + 5%, because who wouldn't breach it to win WDC or WCC with a guarantee that F1 will be too spineless to claw it back later. They complained and managed to get FIA and 8 other teams to agree to raise this years cap by 3.1%. quote:Following the latest meeting of the F1 Commission on Friday morning in Austria, it was confirmed that approval had been given for the budget cap to increase by 3.1%, accounting for the pressures placed by growing costs and inflation.
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Oct 11, 2022 11:59
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Whatever amount you go over in a season should be deducted from your allowed budget for the next. If you go over the reduced budget the next season, then your season ends with whatever points you have as soon as you go over.
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Oct 11, 2022 12:31
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:Whatever amount you go over in a season should be deducted from your allowed budget for the next. I thought this was already the rule
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Oct 11, 2022 12:33
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Pirate Radar posted:I thought this was already the rule Is it? Sorry, I'm not 100% up on the penalties so it very well could be. If it is it doesn't seem to matter since they just do it again, so the second part of what I said should be what happens if you go over it again the next year.
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Oct 11, 2022 12:36
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Ethiser posted:I heard something explain it as if you are at the end of the two hour race time limit you go one extra lap once the clock hits zero and if you are at the end of the three hour total time limit you stop once the lead car crosses the line at zero. Ah, right, that might be it then. Is there a rationale for the difference or did somebody just forget to align these?
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Oct 11, 2022 12:38
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harperdc posted:I remember reading that the FIA didn't want to have a specific penalty/penalties attached to the different levels of breaking the cost cap because they didn't want anyone to go "well it's only X points/whatever, it's worth it to us to spend that bit more," especially for the teams that definitely do have that much budget on hand to spend. They absolutely wanted it to be a looming mystery threat instead, so we're absolutely into reaping/sowing territory. Someone needs to tell the FIA about % based fines instead of absolute $ based. Maybe the Ferrari strategists can help them out
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Oct 11, 2022 13:17
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oh wow, the mods are now silencing me for my Christian beliefs* *That Christian Horner and the rest of the cheating red bull team should be disqualified and banned from grand prix racing
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Oct 11, 2022 13:36
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spaceblancmange posted:oh wow, the mods are now silencing me for my Christian beliefs* if he gets banned then who will be the grand prix
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Oct 11, 2022 13:41
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Deltasquid posted:Ah, right, that might be it then. Is there a rationale for the difference or did somebody just forget to align these? Looks like the history is that it originally said. quote:However, should two hours elapse before the scheduled race distance is completed, the leader will be shown the chequered flag when he crosses the control line (the Line) at the end of the lap during which the two hour period ended. However, should the race be suspended the length of the suspension will be added to this period. After the really long Canada race, a clause was added in 2012 to that last bit that said, up to a limit of four hours. quote:However, should the race be suspended the length of the suspension will be added to this period up to a maximum total race time of four hours. Then in 2015 (I think), the first bit was changed to this, but the second part was unchanged. quote:However, should two hours elapse before the scheduled race distance is completed, the leader will be shown the chequered flag when he crosses the control line (the Line) at the end of the lap following the lap during which the two hour period ended. I can’t find any discussion of why this change was made.
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Oct 11, 2022 13:52
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Solus posted:As punishment red bull will have to only have two-star Michelin chefs for 2023 Loving Africa Chaps posted:The idea that the Mercedes, with a revenue of over €160bn, doesn't have benefits worth more than €7m that bleeds into its F1 team is laughable. Merc and Ferrari are salty as all holy gently caress that RBR spun up RBPT and didn't gently caress it up completely. Because, they can now do the creative accounting that comes along with having an engine development division. The fact the outcome is Red Bull thought catering wasn't part of the budget cap, and is the reason they're over, is just hilarious.
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Oct 11, 2022 14:33
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mods please strike-through 2022 on my avatar
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Oct 11, 2022 14:34
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Khablam posted:Merc and Ferrari are salty as all holy gently caress that RBR spun up RBPT and didn't gently caress it up completely. Because, they can now do the creative accounting that comes along with having an engine development division. Yes I imagine it was quite difficult to spin up buying engines from Honda, rebadging them to say "Red Bull Powertrains" and installing them in the car.
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Oct 11, 2022 14:55
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Yeah RBPT currently does not build the engines - they come entirely from Sakura.
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Oct 11, 2022 15:33
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Frond posted:Yeah RBPT currently does not build the engines - they come entirely from Sakura. Max said during the train wreck post race interview how great it was to win the wdc in front of Honda and then looked a bit sheepish
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Oct 11, 2022 15:44
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There has been an HRC logo on the car the whole year.
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Oct 11, 2022 15:48
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Khablam posted:Merc and Ferrari are salty as all holy gently caress that RBR spun up RBPT and didn't gently caress it up completely. Because, they can now do the creative accounting that comes along with having an engine development division. I also had some discussions with the Ineos Americas cup team early in the pandemic and they were chatting about how there was close collaboration between all the various teams under the Ineos banner which I bet doesn't appear on the Merc balance sheet.
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Oct 11, 2022 15:50
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Lmao catering
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Oct 11, 2022 16:10
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:Is it? Sorry, I'm not 100% up on the penalties so it very well could be. If it is it doesn't seem to matter since they just do it again, so the second part of what I said should be what happens if you go over it again the next year. Eventually you run into a negative number on your budget for the next year and the FIA has to pay you money.
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Oct 11, 2022 16:12
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Griefor posted:Where's this "they're definitely not taking points away" narrative coming from, did FIA say this? Because that bit of text clearly proposes a point penalty for a minor overspend as well. Anybody saying that is wrong. They can't be excluded from either championship entirely, because they were not found to have committed a material breach. They could have lost WCC and/or WDC points because, as you say, those are among the possible penalties for a minor breach.
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Oct 11, 2022 16:31
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It is unlikely that will happen.
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Oct 11, 2022 16:39
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If they weren't willing to remove the championship after that safety car shitshow last year lmao if you think they will this year because they broke the cost cap
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Oct 11, 2022 16:49
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Frond posted:There has been an HRC logo on the car the whole year. Horner Retirement Campaign
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Oct 11, 2022 17:39
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Frond posted:It is unlikely that will happen. Obviously. But the rules do allow for it.
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Oct 11, 2022 20:55
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MustardFacial posted:A $1 overspend for any team should result in a full year ban for RBR. I support this new FIA rule.
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Oct 11, 2022 22:19
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Now that the season is over I can share with you that I laid out $800 to get a Sony aftermarket car stereo that supports Apple CarPlay for my lovely old Corolla with an exploding transmission and being able to further integrate myself into the Apple ecosystem made it worth every penny
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Oct 11, 2022 22:20
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Griefor posted:For the 2021 season he can afford to lose exactly 8 points. Blackhawk posted:Also isn't there strong speculation that Red Bull are also going to blow through the cost cap this year? They themselves have already made noises to the media about it. What happens when the same team wins two years in a row while blowing the cost cap two years in a row? At what point do you either have to strip a championship or scrap the cap? Anyway creative accounting was going to happen, but them loving it up on food would be hilarious.
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Oct 11, 2022 22:23
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As stupid as it is in some respects, this cost cap stuff is working overall. Yes, any team that is led by Horner or someone like him is going to push the limits and then play things up in the press in ways that get eyes a-rolling and make the FIA look even more feckless then usual. But we're also not going to have seasons where the top teams spend $500 million+ while the stragglers have IndyCar budgets. I guess it's a subjective call as to whether that trade-off is worth it, but I think it'll be better for the sport overall.
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Oct 11, 2022 22:38
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italian quid posted:Now that the season is over I can share with you that I laid out $800 to get a Sony aftermarket car stereo that supports Apple CarPlay for my lovely old Corolla with an exploding transmission and being able to further integrate myself into the Apple ecosystem made it worth every penny Is it an ae86 Corolla
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Oct 11, 2022 22:39
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Just imagine how big the gap would be between the 3 front-runners and mid-field if there were no cost caps
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Oct 11, 2022 23:25
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