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whole episode is proof that once again this is the season of Jerry and the rest of the characters flounder and navel gaze and agonise as they desperately try to get on his level
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Oct 11, 2022 05:34
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Its never as simple as TV presents it. There would be factions of people behind each cause and a whole spectrum of motivations behind or against the idea. Humanity would try to maybe take a democratic approach to whether we want outside help like that, but there would be heavy discourse around it and if they did end up leaving wed probably resort to wars and “settling scores” directly after. My money is wed have them stay, with the dissenters either neutralized and ignored or maybe they get violent enough for the dinos to step in. Future generations, ones with the dinos taking care of everything from birth, will all fully lean into the idea. They may become quickly incapable of survival without them (which, were I dissenter, would be my main argument. Im not)
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Oct 11, 2022 05:44
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Bleck posted:If all of someone's physical and social needs had been met and they decided they wanted to kill themselves, what would you suggest that they do? Well, I work in counseling, so figuring out why someone feels suicidal despite having their physical and social needs met is part of my day job. And I'm not sure what I would suggest they do because I would need to have a session (or at least do an intake) with them first so I could start to understand what they're going through and where their emotional distress is coming from. They could be dealing with anything from PTSD caused by past trauma to an undiagnosed chemical imbalance caused by clinical depression, this kind of thing is highly personal and you're not going to be able to help someone deal with it in a meaningful way unless you talk to them first. Then you can determine how severe the immediate risk is, work out a treatment plan, start weekly sessions to identify under lying causes and possible changes that might need to be made in their lives to prevent suicidal feelings in the future (or at least make them easier to cope with when they do occur, it can be hard to unlearn thinking about death when it's something you've been struggling with long term), all the kind of stuff. They only thing I can say for sure right off the bat is that you need to do a little more than just tell them "Don't do that". Guy A. Person posted:Again, eh, it seems like there’s at least some responsibility on humanity to meet them halfway. The events also seemed to happen pretty quickly (would be interested to go back and see if the newspaper headlines give a rough timeline) and the obvious priority would have been stopping immediate physical suffering before moving onto human ennui. Like Snowglobe said above, they seemed to be moving onto that next phase before Rick/the meteor derailed things, and humanity’s regression seemed like more of a “we knew it was too good to be true, gently caress those dinosaurs” type of self-justification than anything (like, remember, they didn’t do anything extra harmful, just reverted quickly back to the current status quo) Yeah, that's fair. For the human and dino relationship to work there would have needed to be give and take on both sides from both species. Humans would have needed to take the time to figure out what their needs were beyond what the dinosaurs were already providing, then clearly communicate those needs, and then work with the dinos to find a healthy way to have those needs met. The TED talks weren't going to be the solution, but if the dinosaurs realized they needed to talk to humans instead of just at humans (and there was no killer space rock coming destroy everything) then they probably could have figured out a mutually satisfying way for humans to find a purpose beyond fulling basic needs. My guess for what that would be? Skateboarding. Everyone skateboards now, the dino tech can make everyone GOOD at it, but if you want to be GREAT you have to practice. Boom, that's your new purpose. No more wars, only skateboarding competitions with dinosaurs now.
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Oct 11, 2022 05:55
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Then you can determine how severe the immediate risk is, work out a treatment plan, start weekly sessions to identify under lying causes and possible changes that might need to be made in their lives Yes, but if we assume that a change needs to happen, it's presumably because some need in their life is not being met, right? What do you do when that is not the case - if someone, in this case, says that they're feeling suicidal because the underlying trauma of capitalism has convinced them that they need their life to be worse, like, what do you do? Do you actively destroy the structures that have significantly improved everyone else's lives to enable that?
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Oct 11, 2022 06:05
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The dinosaurs really hosed up by giving everyone a copy of Jerry's book "Never Trying Never Fails" so they could learn to just accept their ennui rather than helping them find new ways to add meaning in their lives. I guess their stance was that they were going to try to help people adapt to the course they had chosen for themselves (and people very clearly weren't going to try and better themselves) rather than impose a course on them, but the episode pretty much skipped past all that expository stuff. What to DO with yourself once you're not struggling is a big blind spot with the dinos, like thay one guy in the Q&A who asked "What do I do with my suicidal feelings" and got a dismissive "Don't do that" Probably better not to read too deeply into the political or neoliberal interpretation, and instead consider it a parallel to Rick saying he "has a process" for getting his own gun repaired - the process is basically ignore the problem until he's bothered enough to fix it out of mostly spite. That'll be humanity's process too - don't just fix it for us/hand us a portal pistol, we'll loving fix global warming when the annoyance builds up and not a moment beforehand. And yeah all the criticism is right and society could easily just do it this moment but we have a process.
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Oct 11, 2022 06:16
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heh, everyone turned on the dinosaurs and decided they like trains instead
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Oct 11, 2022 06:26
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Bleck posted:Yes, but if we assume that a change needs to happen, it's presumably because some need in their life is not being met, right? What do you do when that is not the case - if someone, in this case, says that they're feeling suicidal because the underlying trauma of capitalism has convinced them that they need their life to be worse, like, what do you do? Do you actively destroy the structures that have significantly improved everyone else's lives to enable that? No, you set up reoccurring weekly sessions to help deal with the sudden change that has a occurred in their life and the potential lose of purpose and identity that comes from unemployment after years upon years of capitalism encouraging them to put work first and define themselves by what they "do" for a living. What you're describing isn't a farfetched hypothetical situation, that's something that a lot of people regularly experience in real life. Many people base their lives and sense of self around their jobs, and suddenly no longer being able to do their job can leave them feeling empty and directionless even if their other needs are satisfied without them having to work. They've never existed in a world where they weren't working, and having to learn how to do so late in life can be a difficult transitional adjustment people sometimes need help with.
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Oct 11, 2022 06:46
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sure okay posted:Its never as simple as TV presents it. There would be factions of people behind each cause and a whole spectrum of motivations behind or against the idea. I kind of want to latch onto this as part of my problem. I think part of the reason it didn't work was that everybody was just kind of a mob. Like, why isn't Morty happy? He literally gets to sit around, play video games and jack off all day if he wants. He should be loving it. It made sense for Summer and Beth to not like it, but maybe Morty and Jerry could have just enjoyed it. Then there'd be conflict and stuff. Characters that we know doing things with different motivations. An actual plot. Instead we just kind of hosed around for 20 minutes until they did enough improv to wrap up the plot. Like, when the answer for why Rick gets involved is "I don't know. I guess he wants to host the Oscars for some reason. Maybe we'll say the slap was fake." then it's not great. It's a shame since the individual bits were pretty great. I'll second that the ship popping into reverse after Rick hit it with a rock was a great cap to the episode.
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Oct 11, 2022 07:07
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here the behind the episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MF3kEp_2Jo I think the Ricky and morty episode with the memory aliens did better riffing on the sitcom stuff go tinkles and sleepy gary!
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Oct 11, 2022 07:21
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Ups_rail posted:here the behind the episode I think if they wanted to go with the ideas outlined here, then they needed a different ending. Something like, either the Dinos commit to dying or solve the rock problem in a way that doesn't validate Rick's bullshit.
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Oct 11, 2022 07:35
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The meteor will go away only if you do incest.
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Oct 11, 2022 09:01
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Kesper North posted:If only we lived in a world where we could still afford that luxury. I'm kinda at this point here, where I'm increasingly critical of the comedy I consume. I feel like giving the comedians less and less benefit of the doubt. One after another, it seems, people and media that I laughed at, where I thought they were being "self-aware" and "ironic"... it turns out, they were not, they were just shitheels. Norm Macdonald, one of my favorite comedians, I just recently saw an very candid interview with him on a Tom Green online stream where he was talking about how in his personal life he doesn't think politics mean anything and it's all just gossip. Like gently caress, Norm, easy for you to say when you're a wealthy white dude, I guess. In that specific case it doesn't matter. Cause he's dead. It's not like he's gonna continue to put out new poo poo, so I can /kind of/ compartmentalize my enjoyment of his old stuff. But it still makes it harder to watch all his absurdly racist and homophobic comedy, because now I know that he never gave a poo poo about the suffering of any of those people, at all. Guy A. Person posted:Also, while I do think Harmon/Roiland/the writers tend to lean toward "South Park" libertarianism*, *by which I mean -- mostly just the idea that anyone who seems to good to be true probably is and has some sort of agenda or hidden secret, and that caring about something too much is lame and a sign of moral weakness or even outright idiocy This is the part that really bothers me. It's so hostile to any disenfranchised group. Some people do actually have a reason to be upset about poo poo. The assumption that people who care are just whiny or weak, that's going down a dark path, let's say. Mantis42 posted:The meteor will go away only if you do incest. 
XboxPants fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Oct 11, 2022 |
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Oct 11, 2022 09:20
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:What you're describing isn't a farfetched hypothetical situation, that's something that a lot of people regularly experience in real life. Many people base their lives and sense of self around their jobs, and suddenly no longer being able to do their job can leave them feeling empty and directionless even if their other needs are satisfied without them having to work. Yeah, but, they shouldn't.
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Oct 11, 2022 10:09
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Bleck posted:Yeah, but, they shouldn't. Amazing insight. Consider applying for work at a suicide crisis line.
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Oct 11, 2022 10:14
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XboxPants posted:I'm kinda at this point here, where I'm increasingly critical of the comedy I consume. I feel like giving the comedians less and less benefit of the doubt. One after another, it seems, people and media that I laughed at, where I thought they were being "self-aware" and "ironic"... it turns out, they were not, they were just shitheels. Norm Macdonald, one of my favorite comedians, I just recently saw an very candid interview with him on a Tom Green online stream where he was talking about how in his personal life he doesn't think politics mean anything and it's all just gossip. Like gently caress, Norm, easy for you to say when you're a wealthy white dude, I guess. So on an old pat oswalt album he screams "Black Angus doors lock from the outside (slur for gay men). So to watch his softing over the years and lose the "edgyness" A better can of worms is marget cho whose humor I honestly like but she basically screams Asian stereo types, while mocking her mother, and was very controversial in the 90's. Hell the opening to the first episode of "all american girl" is just loving cringy. then you get her bits about gay men and gay culture. Doug stanhope even talks about how he killed "the man show" and I kinda like his arguement of "was it really that good to start with?" oh and jimmy kimmel and the stuff that was done on the man show 20+ years ago. now what dave chappel did with chappel show...that was amazing because it doesnt matter if he was being ironic or not because some people would life at the black man screaming racist poo poo because it was ironic, and others would just laught because a black man is screaming the N word and poo poo. That was soo much loving money....and he walked away. also comedians are very very broken people and none broken people are just boring. also joe rogan being a meat head with the dinos was funny Edit Space Cadet Omoly posted:What you're describing isn't a farfetched hypothetical situation, that's something that a lot of people regularly experience in real life. Many people base their lives and sense of self around their jobs, and suddenly no longer being able to do their job can leave them feeling empty and directionless even if their other needs are satisfied without them having to work. They've never existed in a world where they weren't working, and having to learn how to do so late in life can be a difficult transitional adjustment people sometimes need help with. The group the kills themselves the most are older men who lost their job/sense of purpose.
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Oct 11, 2022 10:19
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XboxPants posted:Some people do actually have a reason to be upset about poo poo. The point was that the people in the episode did not. That was the joke. XboxPants posted:Amazing insight. Consider applying for work at a suicide crisis line. The suicide crisis line is also going to tell you not to kill yourself over being able to retire and having a life that most people only dream about before suffering endlessly and dying. Maybe in a way that's more respectful of the context of an actual emotional crisis, instead of a comment on an internet forum about a cartoon. Not sure what the point of this smarmy response was.
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Oct 11, 2022 10:27
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Ups_rail posted:also comedians are very very broken people and none broken people are just boring. Yeah I have also considered this, that anyone that's gonna scream absurd nonsense is gonna be hosed in the head. But there is also comedy that's not just based on edgy shock humor... Arrested Development, Bojack Horseman, The Woman in the House Across the Street from the Girl in the Window, What We Do In the Shadows, etc. It's possible to do comedy without punching down and I'd even say that R&M often achieves it. I'd even argue IASIP doesn't base its comedy on degrading entire groups of people, but with two caveats: one, it's really skirting the edge there, and two, they seem willing to adapt and grow when they realize they did something hosed up or had toxic views in the past. For example, flipping around the running jokes about Mac being gay that were just an opportunity to make cheap gay jokes, to saying no, this guy is actually a closeted homosexual and now he'll come out.
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Oct 11, 2022 10:36
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that episode was boring, but the super angry race of meteors was pretty funny. oh andit was weird they pulled a house of cards reference from nowhere Quotey fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Oct 11, 2022 |
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Oct 11, 2022 12:35
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Okay, I've been thinking about this episode a lot, and there's one thing I still don't get. Those mummy jokes made no loving sense, right?
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Oct 11, 2022 12:37
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Open Source Idiom posted:Okay, I've been thinking about this episode a lot, and there's one thing I still don't get. 
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Oct 11, 2022 12:57
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it felt like a filler episode to get the portal gun fixed in a non-frustrating way in anticipation of whatever narratively focused episode is dropping in several weeks. the pacing in this episode is weird, with the montages being clear padding for time. the episodes in which the president appears are always among the weakest so i really didn’t expect much out of this, honestly
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Oct 11, 2022 14:03
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Open Source Idiom posted:Okay, I've been thinking about this episode a lot, and there's one thing I still don't get. Have you been attacked by any mummies lately? Well? Have you?? Thank an Egyptian.
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Oct 11, 2022 14:46
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I think it's interesting that so many people in this thread have decided that this episode has a reactionary political message. The cheery music montage of paradise being dismantled, people going back to work lovely jobs and crime going through the roof is not advocacy of human suffering, it's sarcasm. Rick and the President are not portrayed as heroic banishers of the communist dinosaur menace, but as assholes ruining a good thing on purpose out of pettiness. The entire show is driven by the comic absurdity of people doing bad things. I hate how we're now in a situation where people are simultaneously aware that Things Mean Something, while also being pretty much completely useless at comprehending any of it. It's like if I showed you a picture of a dog and you reacted as if it was a rorschach test.
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Oct 11, 2022 17:28
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QuoProQuid posted:the episodes in which the president appears are always among the weakest so i really didn’t expect much out of this, honestly  , except the opposite. Rickchurian Mortydate is fun and last year's Thanksgiving episode was one of the better ones that season.
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Oct 11, 2022 17:49
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Keith David is a delight no matter where he shows up
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Oct 11, 2022 17:53
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HorseLord posted:I think it's interesting that so many people in this thread have decided that this episode has a reactionary political message.
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Oct 11, 2022 18:56
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HorseLord posted:I think it's interesting that so many people in this thread have decided that this episode has a reactionary political message. I can't even begin to agree with the notion that being handed "paradise" is a good thing, so lmao at how self righteous about all the wrong thinkers this gets
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Oct 11, 2022 19:06
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Dissatisfaction with an unearned Paradise is a loving ancient trope
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Oct 11, 2022 19:07
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if i had the choice of being immediately given a global post-scarcity society or having to wait for humanity to earn it (lmao) i'd pick the former every single time how is that even in question
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Oct 11, 2022 19:48
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Stanislav Lem has this story where workers make machines that are ever more elaborate until eventually they make the workers superfluous, the powers that be decide that the solution is to just get rid of the workers, so this whole premise is not new but the R&M twist is in my opinion pretty much capitlist boot licking, in R&M verse the entire cultural aspect of human civilization is 'silly', "make more marvel movies", so I do think that ultimately the episode is kinda morally iffy but given that it doesn't take itself so seriously and that the episode is more of a 'what if dinosaurs were super advanced, wouldn't that be silly?' joke that doesn't really engage with the social questions it raises I kinda just don't think it matters so much. I love Dan Harmon and think he's a genius but after listening to him ramble for hundreds of episodes on harmontown I really don't think he's a coherent political thinker or anything, so I mean great Harmon and Roland believe people who lack a Protestant work ethic are losers and that without "work" people will lack a will to live, I mean, that's like, their opinion.
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Oct 11, 2022 19:51
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i dont think anyone writing this episode thought about this episode as hard as people itt are thinking about this episode and maybe it reveals subconscious biases but im not sure it was intended to be anything more than "wouldn't it be funny if everyone was forced to be as idle as jerry" and "how do we fix the portal gun"
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Oct 11, 2022 20:16
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Rick and Morty episode: "capitalism is stupid" Internet: "can't believe R&M would release such a bootlicking pro-capitalism episode"
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Oct 11, 2022 20:25
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the meteors did nothing wrong
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Oct 11, 2022 20:37
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:if i had the choice of being immediately given a global post-scarcity society or having to wait for humanity to earn it (lmao) i'd pick the former every single time it allows the elite to feel comfortable that their success is real, whereas if everyone had what they had it wouldnt be as good. since they make decisions on what media to print, they'll happily greenlight anything that says that people are truly, honestly, happier working for the elites in order to receive less than they produce. if the working class received more without having to work for it, they wouldnt be happy-- such noble beasts of burden
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Oct 11, 2022 20:40
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Bleck posted:Rick and Morty episode: "capitalism is stupid" Yeah I've been scratching my head the last few days trying to figure out how people are interpreting this episode as being in favor of un-solving the world's problems. Seems like a pretty clear about how that's a dumb idea and no one should ever do that, but in a less scifi way that's what we're already doing. We already produce enough food to feed every human on Earth but we actively choose not to because  Then I remembered I'm in TVIV and it all made sense 
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Oct 11, 2022 20:44
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This did feel like the weakest episode of the season but not for any political reasons. It just didn't make me laugh or think as hard as the others, though it did have some good jokes. The angry space rocks looked and sounded very funny.
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Oct 11, 2022 21:38
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Takes No Damage posted:Yeah I've been scratching my head the last few days trying to figure out how people are interpreting this episode as being in favor of un-solving the world's problems. Seems like a pretty clear Why was Beth less happy in the paradise world? Why didn't she simply continue working with horses, but without pay? Why would that route not offer value to her existence? (it's because value is determined by how much money you generate) The only person we see continue to pursue their craft out of passion is the BBQ shack guy and he's revealed to be an unnatural creation. As if it's impossible for a real human to do this. You can say that the episode was doing this all intentionally, like ironically. To point out how stupid its own premise is, or whatever you're saying. But there's not really any evidence of that. On the face of it, this is an episode where communists came in, eliminated capitalism and fixed all the social problems, and people were less happy with that than they were with the old way. It's only anticapitalist if you start by assuming the writers are anticapitalist. It's just as valid to look at this episode and say its message is, "even if someone stepped in and addressed all that woke bullshit you virtue signalers whine about, it wouldn't make anyone happier because humans will always find something to complain about. none of those problems really matter" and that's just as compliant with the episode we were given. I mean, it's also fair to say that the episode just has no coherent political message, but that indicates to me a writer team with no coherent political beliefs. In this climate, in the US, having "no political beliefs" is a dogwhistle for being a reactionary. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Oct 11, 2022 |
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Oct 11, 2022 21:46
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"no political beliefs" means "im afraid to say im conservative" actually. We get a lot of scenes where they make a joke and the joke is just that people are too sensitive nowadays right before they drop a slur.
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Oct 11, 2022 21:51
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QuoProQuid posted:i dont think anyone writing this episode thought about this episode as hard as people itt are thinking about this episode
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Oct 11, 2022 22:01
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Takes No Damage posted:Yeah I've been scratching my head the last few days trying to figure out how people are interpreting this episode as being in favor of un-solving the world's problems. They are not very smart.
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Oct 11, 2022 22:09
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