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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's about corporate citizenship apparently, not individual people. From my understanding it’s just badly phrased to mean if you wanted to keep doing the work, you can’t as a US citizen, ergo you’d have to renounce your citizenship…but nothing forced.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:38
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ninjoatse.cx posted:I'm curious what he means by "lose their American citizenship". Legally, that's not a thing. Not that law has ever stopped any of our previous presidents. but the controls refer to "us persons", which is not related to citizenship or even necessarily actual people, so i think they're just confused with that terminology.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:50
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url posted:I find this term particularly difficult. Fair enough, but it's the term of art used in the US bar. And I wholly fail to see why your second point, about anti-slavery laws, is relevant. The issue is about the use of IP beyond the terms agreed to. If I'm misunderstanding a more general point about the effectiveness of the WTO agreements then that's a different story, but lol at the state of them after the US kneecapping the Appellate Body, and lol at China ever having seriously attempted to implement its ascension representations.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:54
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Ghostlight posted:it's definitely a thing that can be done - you just can't leave someone stateless. Didn’t the UK leave a person stateless pretty recently? Also I admit I’m confused: what does the new sanctions actually do
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Oct 14, 2022 22:58
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Some Twitter rando is on the same level of trustworthiness as any SA poster. Why would you believe them.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:02
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edit: nvm
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Oct 14, 2022 23:09
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thetoughestbean posted:Didn’t the UK leave a person stateless pretty recently? oversimplification: if you, a us person (citizen, permanent resident, or employee of a u.s. firm) sell certain prohibited equipment (specifically, equipment used to make cpus and other high-end chips) to a chinese firm, maintain or help maintain equipment they already own, or help them build their own such equipment, the commerce department will crawl up your rear end, fine you into oblivion, and put you in the proverbial federal gently caress-me-in-the-rear end prison for decades
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Oct 14, 2022 23:22
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thetoughestbean posted:Didn’t the UK leave a person stateless pretty recently? I think it's what a US president thinks he can do, but isn't actually doing because that's insane. Maybe the scary threat is implied but it's like did you do cyber crimes like Snowden (PBUH) or did you work for a Chinese company without my permission? Which, if so drat. New Trump same as the old Trump.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:24
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Thank god this was cleared up https://www.zdnet.com/article/uk-intelligence-dismisses-ps2-missile-fears/
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Oct 14, 2022 23:25
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:I think it's what a US president thinks he can do, but isn't actually doing because that's insane. Maybe the scary threat is implied but it's like did you do cyber crimes like Snowden (PBUH) or did you work for a Chinese company without my permission? The hell are you talking about?
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Oct 14, 2022 23:27
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Marshal Prolapse posted:The hell are you talking about? The fact that the president of the US was implied to have said people would lose citizenship if they didn't immediately quit their jobs at Chinese corporations. Which he can't do because it's insane. Trump however never knew or respected the boundaries of his job. It was a running joke. Presidential authority can basically be exceeded at will and has been since forever. Which sucks but is probably not the case here.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:33
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They don’t lose citizenship…? They would be citizens in violations of sanctions.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:34
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Shumagorath posted:They don’t lose citizenship…? They would be citizens in violations of sanctions. Sorry that was my initial reading which was way off. Need to stop talking out my rear end then.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:38
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hypnophant posted:oversimplification: if you, a us person (citizen, permanent resident, or employee of a u.s. firm) sell certain prohibited equipment (specifically, equipment used to make cpus and other high-end chips) to a chinese firm, maintain or help maintain equipment they already own, or help them build their own such equipment, the commerce department will crawl up your rear end, fine you into oblivion, and put you in the proverbial federal gently caress-me-in-the-rear end prison for decades Okay so basically it made working in the Chinese microchip industry not a viable career path for people affiliated with the US? I admit I never really knew much about the nitty-gritty of sanctions, just that they happen and hurt economies. Do most sanctions work this way?
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Oct 14, 2022 23:38
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:Sorry that was my initial reading which was way off. It's not entirely on you, the Tweeter was being kinda hyperbolic - it looks like, interpreted properly, what he's saying is "It will be illegal for US citizens to work on Chinese chips, therefore if a US citizen wanted to keep working on Chinese chips legally they would need to first renounce US citizenship." Which is technically true, I guess, but I question how many people, when told that their job is now illegal in the eyes of US law, will immediately think "Yes, the solution to this conundrum is to renounce my citizenship!"
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Oct 14, 2022 23:49
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thetoughestbean posted:Okay so basically it made working in the Chinese microchip industry not a viable career path for people affiliated with the US? I admit I never really knew much about the nitty-gritty of sanctions, just that they happen and hurt economies. Do most sanctions work this way? yes. sanctions is a fancy word for “nobody we can reach is allowed to trade with this person/entity/country or we’ll gently caress you up.” Sanctions have been around as long as modern international trade, which is to say centuries, but no country has ever had the global reach of modern us finance so uncle sam has been flexing more and more
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Oct 14, 2022 23:52
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's about corporate citizenship apparently, not individual people. Got a link where I can read up on what it actually entails? I tried googling it, but all I get are a bunch of news articles that read like that series of tweets.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:55
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thetoughestbean posted:Didn’t the UK leave a person stateless pretty recently?
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Oct 15, 2022 00:03
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Ghostlight posted:oh yeah, when i say "you can't" i really should've said "by international law you're not supposed to", which of course means you can do it as much as you want as long as it doesn't piss off a permanent security council member. And only if you piss them off enough that rocking the boat on the balance of trade and political favors is worth it if it means making GBS threads on you.
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Oct 15, 2022 00:06
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:And only if you piss them off enough that rocking the boat on the balance of trade and political favors is worth it if it means making GBS threads on you. So basically as long as you don’t, say, invade Ukraine you should be golden, huh
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Oct 15, 2022 00:07
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Tomn posted:It's not entirely on you, the Tweeter was being kinda hyperbolic - it looks like, interpreted properly, what he's saying is "It will be illegal for US citizens to work on Chinese chips, therefore if a US citizen wanted to keep working on Chinese chips legally they would need to first renounce US citizenship." Which is technically true, I guess, but I question how many people, when told that their job is now illegal in the eyes of US law, will immediately think "Yes, the solution to this conundrum is to renounce my citizenship!" Yeah not going to blame the tweets for my misinterpretation but it seemed confusing. And I'm just not at all an expert except when it involves a US president exceeding the powers given to him.
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Oct 15, 2022 00:08
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And even that I believe is being litigated and re-litigated through the UK courts. Once the current parade of failures leave government it will probably turn out it was unconstitutional after all. As usual, the lawyers win 
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Oct 15, 2022 00:09
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:Yeah not going to blame the tweets for my misinterpretation but it seemed confusing. And I'm just not at all an expert except when it involves a US president exceeding the powers given to him. My understanding is that Biden’s actually pretty cautious about not doing executive orders if his team isn’t 100% sure that it’s within the scope of the President’s power. It gets him a fair bit of criticism from people who want him to do more
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Oct 15, 2022 00:16
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ninjoatse.cx posted:Got a link where I can read up on what it actually entails? I tried googling it, but all I get are a bunch of news articles that read like that series of tweets. Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's about corporate citizenship apparently, not individual people. quote:(1) Any individual who is a citizen of the United States, a permanent resident alien of the United States, or a protected individual as defined by 8 U.S.C. 1324b(a)(3);
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Oct 15, 2022 00:24
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Ghostlight posted:this is inaccurate. it is about us persons, which is a term that varies across legislation but includes both individual people as well as business entities in regard to § 744.6 (NEW and Expanded controls on U.S. person’s ability to support China development of integrated circuits): Ah, cheers.
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Oct 15, 2022 07:32
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Regarding that tweet, I thought trump was bad and racist for picking on china. Now its good that biden is picking on china even harder? Also because of the semiconductor shortage and watching alot of youtube videos IC production is truly a global enterprise. with firms all around the world from ziess in germany ASMR, the designers etc. Then you learn that the chinese goverment set aside billions for devolping its own semiconductor industry and highly contected people just took the money and cloned an old Intel design other fun stuff Russia is the main producer of neon which is needed for the lazers that do IC work. and finally years of reading the GBS china threads have lead to us posting alot of articles some of them from the loving 1980s documenting the history of joint ventures. It was outside companies desperate to get access to chinese markets that suggested doing JV in the first place.
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Oct 15, 2022 08:20
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Ups_rail posted:Regarding that tweet, I thought trump was bad and racist for picking on china. Now its good that biden is picking on china even harder? wuhan semiconductors, where they took the billions of rmb and ran, is much funnier ukraine also produces noble gases. actually they and russia have together about 90% of the market
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Oct 15, 2022 08:36
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Perhaps they are realising that 'access to Chinese markets' is just a fantasy of eternal growth and that it actually entails having your designs stolen by Chinese intelligence while the state all but blackmails the population onto buying its homegrown copies over your products
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Oct 15, 2022 08:37
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I don’t know the rationale for these sanctions, I need to look them up. The difference between Trump and Biden here is that Trump was all sound and fury signifying nothing. He yelled stuff about getting into a trade war so the US could get a “fair deal” but didn’t accomplish much of anything regarding China. He definitely was racist with how he wanted to call covid “the wuhan flu”. Biden just quietly did a pretty decent blow to China’s access to resources for creating microchips. I’m guessing this has something to do with either Taiwan being a major leader in that industry but hey I’m no expert. I’m just some guy
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Oct 15, 2022 08:43
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Strategic Tea posted:And even that I believe is being litigated and re-litigated through the UK courts. Once the current parade of failures leave government it will probably turn out it was unconstitutional after all. I am genuinely glad that it is being litigated. And I agree the likely outcome will be that the UK Government is found to have acted unconstitutionally (again). I genuinely find it deeply upsetting and unsettling as it speaks to a callousness and disregard for some fundamentally basic tenets of humanity. There are several long-standing international obligations regarding Asylum and Refouelment. Their success (longevity) is in no small part a result of them being sensible, decent, and humane. Their continued success is required for a functional international order. The appallingly parochial naivety of the (increasingly not fringe) far right in the Conservative party should give rise to a sense of shame or at the very least crippling embarrassment. I appreciate that the past couple of decades have seen the trend for decrying the efforts of the UN & WTO. (side note: It's weird that the same wisdom isn't applied to the IMF or World Bank) That the UK has wholly embraced it's bizarre path of anti-internationalism is honestly quite breathtakingly spectacular. Anyways, its the China thread, not the UKMT. Apols for the derail. Ups_rail posted:Regarding that tweet, I thought trump was bad and racist for picking on china. Now its good that biden is picking on china even harder? Minor point, ASML is Dutch. To use a lazily slogan instead of actual analysis, for all intents and purposes: if you can't do business with ASML - go home. ASML hold the licences for the technique of manufacturing EUV capable machinery. If you can't build or buy an EUV machine, you can't print modern chips. That's it. TSMC design the chips, ASML make the machines that can print them. And, yeah, it goes without saying, its technically hard as poo poo to do even with them on-board. bob dobbs is dead posted:wuhan semiconductors, where they took the billions of rmb and ran, is much funnier I will never not find that particular blag not hilarious. url fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Oct 15, 2022 |
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Oct 15, 2022 08:52
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Lesson to the world (dare I say to China) from 4,000 years of unbroken and definitely unconquered Celtic history  Don't let oligarchs own your newspapers
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Oct 15, 2022 08:59
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Strategic Tea posted:Lesson to the world (dare I say to China) from 4,000 years of unbroken and definitely unconquered Celtic history This needs a "Breaking News" lower-third ticker with updates every 90s. E: while I'm here and spamming the thread. It's been funny for the past few years watching stories like the Wuhan HongXin story, where enterprising individuals heard about a government subsidy, then basically banked it and ran. The EV subsidies suffered the same fate. Essentially when reading a story such as "China has created more Billionaires than the US for the past X years running" the only take away from that should be, "Not intentionally!" Those headlines should read "China has way more parasitic Musk types than the US" url fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Oct 15, 2022 |
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Oct 15, 2022 09:04
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https://twitter.com/MrSeanHaines/status/1580745474369126400?s=19 Ethnic Groups.
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Oct 15, 2022 09:53
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They do look really happy tbqh
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Oct 15, 2022 09:59
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Re: Statelessness. A couple of years ago, in the state of Assam Modi decreed that a whole lot of the descendents of Bangladeshi immigrants/refugees were no longer Indian citizens, and Bangladesh won't take them back. Leaving them stateless. And stateless they remain to this day, as the courts haven't got around to hearing any of the appeals, even ones from people with documented claims of Indian nationality going back generations. It is sad that it wasn't as big a deal as it should have been internationally. Just as Modi himself, (Hindu fundamentalist, Hindu nationalist, Islamophobic, thin skinned egomaniac and despot), doesn't cop anywhere near the amount of poo poo that he deserves. Sorry for the irrelevance, but as far as I know there is no India thread. And I am too lazy/ignorant to start one.
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Oct 15, 2022 10:21
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url posted:This needs a "Breaking News" lower-third ticker with updates every 90s. we can fill that with bus/truck related accidents involving pedestrians getting consumed under them BrigadierSensible posted:Just as Modi himself, (Hindu fundamentalist, Hindu nationalist, Islamophobic, thin skinned egomaniac and despot), doesn't cop anywhere near the amount of poo poo that he deserves. so india next in afganistan??
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Oct 15, 2022 11:34
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Ups_rail posted:Regarding that tweet, I thought trump was bad and racist for picking on china. Now its good that biden is picking on china even harder? trump was bad because he had a boomer’s ideas about how to compete with china, which was to slap tariffs on low- and mid-skill manufacturing but not enough to make those things profitable in the u.s., so he just made things more expensive without creating any more american jobs. biden is good because protecting an edge america actually has and is good at and can do profitability is an actually effective strategy
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Oct 15, 2022 14:09
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BrigadierSensible posted:Re: Statelessness. It's best not to start India threads, they devolve into designated poo poo posting.
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Oct 16, 2022 00:08
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There's an India/Pakistan thread in D&D. We were just talking about the Modi camps recently.
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Oct 16, 2022 00:20
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Hell he’s got my vote! He’s running for re-election right?
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Oct 16, 2022 00:20
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