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Good Soldier Svejk posted:It's not a good thing but it is also the most leftist thing in the history of leftism to immolate something that helps people while a committee is in the process of drafting up its replacement that should be finished once the charter is ratified in the next 2-4 years pending certain rewording of the bylaws and of course once the Delaware magistrate approves the certification we can begin disbursing funds so those starving goons will just need to be patient yep. the new fund is a very good idea with a lot of smart and good posts about it, that currently does not exist and should not be treated as a replacement until the minute that it's actually been established and has resolved the mechanisms to receive and distribute funds.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:03
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CODChimera posted:it's literally a group of people from a pyf drama thread causing this. drama is all they want Wrong. I'm a cspam poster you dumbass freak
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Oct 17, 2022 20:03
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The anonymizing system needs to account for grifters who find mutual aid groups on google. There have been at least a couple examples of finding out people with days old regdates have posted identical (usually large) requests across a bunch of disparate forums.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:04
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speng31b posted:IMO a single point of contact should always field the ingress for new requests and that can rotate if needed, but personal details of requesters (including forums usernames, emails, or anything else) should never be available to a committee. yeah you could do a very simple structure where you have intake + committee + disburser/fund controller the intake guy gets a request, tells the committee that they have a request for X dollars with or without a reason, the committee deliberates or rubber stamps or whatever and sends back a yes/no to the intake guy. The only thing the fund controller gets is "disburse X dollars to e-mail address Y". You get three audit logs: intake guy requests, committee yes/no, and disbursements, which you can then compare against each other as well as against the inflow + outflow + overhead. e: this is basically kingcobweb's suggestion anyway so I'll just give it a +1 this too: VVVVVV Pentecoastal Elites has issued a correction as of 20:09 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 17, 2022 20:07
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i think the principle of not means testing or making people bear their souls in order to get money is worth holding to, and that unfortunately the price for that is some unscrupulous people might scam it. maybe large requests should merit additional scrutiny but if the fund is helping most of its recipients quickly then i don't think it's necessarily the worst thing in the world if some random dipshit asks for 50 bucks he doesn't need.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:07
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some plague rats posted:Wrong. I'm a cspam poster you dumbass freak yeah but you also IK the drama thread and pretending drama is not an element in play here would be silly
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Oct 17, 2022 20:08
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:The goal of any new project should not be dismantling the existing structure before something new is ready to take its place. That is only going to hurt people. Could you please point out, prior to Plinkey's posts, any aggressive desire to dismantle Plinkey's fund?
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Oct 17, 2022 20:09
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Dustcat posted:yeah but you also IK the drama thread and pretending drama is not an element in play here would be silly Shut the gently caress upppp talk about the new fund
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Oct 17, 2022 20:09
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some plague rats posted:Wrong. I'm a cspam poster you dumbass freak I wouldn't say you're causing this, more like chiming in with a snarky comment here and there
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Oct 17, 2022 20:09
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I think that while ideally the fund won’t be taken advantage of in that way (obviously), that feels like something that should—assuming the UKMT model is copied, and it does seem sensible enough—be handled by the elected administrators, rather than needing to be hard-baked into the system by design. I think minimal means testing, and trusting the eyeball test for requests is going to be good at least I will tially. I think the more important priorities right now are transparency in inflows and outflows, not losing chinks of the fund to patreon and taxes, and having an administration mechanism in place.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:10
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Dustcat posted:yeah but you also IK the drama thread and pretending drama is not an element in play here would be silly O they IK it? lmao okay that's too much
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Oct 17, 2022 20:10
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first come first serve the X-large meat lover's pizza I eat every day for 2nd dinner
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Oct 17, 2022 20:12
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Lady Radia posted:Shut the gently caress upppp talk about the new fund Last warning. Anyone discussing Plinkey's fund here or carrying on dumbass arguments caused by it after this post get a 6er. No exceptions.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:14
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Neurolimal posted:Could you please point out, prior to Plinkey's posts, any aggressive desire to dismantle Plinkey's fund? Funds don't need to be dismantled, they just need accountability, and at some level that means having to use donations to pay for operations like hiring an accountant for something for I don't know how long. Some quick research implies that 10-20% of the donations used to pay for operating costs is in line with most great reputation charities, and even 30% would be fine for something that has to be done on a small scale without built up support infrastructure. I'll PM the UKMT people and ask them how that works.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:14
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kingcobweb posted:Role 1: intake secretary/anonymizer (non-decision-maker; some clever tech guy could probably figure out how to automate this eventually) yeah this seems pretty close. lobster shirt posted:i think the principle of not means testing or making people bear their souls in order to get money is worth holding to, and that unfortunately the price for that is some unscrupulous people might scam it. maybe large requests should merit additional scrutiny but if the fund is helping most of its recipients quickly then i don't think it's necessarily the worst thing in the world if some random dipshit asks for 50 bucks he doesn't need. this
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Oct 17, 2022 20:15
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some plague rats posted:Wrong. I'm a cspam poster you dumbass freak In that you constantly post about cspam in other forums, sure (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 17, 2022 20:15
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From the perspective of the UKMT fund, I can only speak as someone on the receiving end of their help. My washing machine broke last summer at a bad time for me, fixing it was more expensive than buying a new one & washing clothes by hand is time consuming & just poo poo. (I live in a village with no laundrette) They got back to me quick, I forget how much I needed, maybe £50, maybe £100? but anyway, there were no real questions, and basically within 4 hours of me providing my bank details they had transferred the money. So helpful, massive source of stress reduced & I'm extremely grateful to the goons who run the found & who have donated to it. I get that trusting goons with whatever private details you'd need in the US but the best you can't is make sure it's not the loudest voices who are involved but people who you can actually trust not to doxx you.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:16
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:It's not a good thing but it is also the most leftist thing in the history of leftism to immolate something that helps people while a committee is in the process of drafting up its replacement that should be finished once the charter is ratified in the next 2-4 years pending certain rewording of the bylaws and of course once the Delaware magistrate approves the certification we can begin disbursing funds so those starving goons will just need to be patient As a short-term solution, it appears that it is possible for unincorporated organisations to file form 1023-EZ and be exempt from paying taxes. Perhaps this would be a way to get something setup and accepting donations in the nearish future? Of course, it may be wise to get something official established in the long run.  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1023ez.pdf
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Oct 17, 2022 20:17
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forkboy84 posted:From the perspective of the UKMT fund, I can only speak as someone on the receiving end of their help. My washing machine broke last summer at a bad time for me, fixing it was more expensive than buying a new one & washing clothes by hand is time consuming & just poo poo. (I live in a village with no laundrette) They got back to me quick, I forget how much I needed, maybe £50, maybe £100? but anyway, there were no real questions, and basically within 4 hours of me providing my bank details they had transferred the money. So helpful, massive source of stress reduced & I'm extremely grateful to the goons who run the found & who have donated to it. This was mentioned in other threads, but banking transfers like that in UK are wildly easier then in the US, and US banking laws and restrictions are why things like Venmo took off.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:19
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CODChimera posted:O they IK it? lmao okay that's too much Nah I ik the whole forum I just post in there a lot because I get paid commission for bringing in new dramas (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 17, 2022 20:21
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lobster shirt posted:i think the principle of not means testing or making people bear their souls in order to get money is worth holding to, and that unfortunately the price for that is some unscrupulous people might scam it. maybe large requests should merit additional scrutiny but if the fund is helping most of its recipients quickly then i don't think it's necessarily the worst thing in the world if some random dipshit asks for 50 bucks he doesn't need. right, the fund should be calibrated to moving money quickly, but there should be a backwards-looking eye as to making sure funds are staying in the community.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:24
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City Slicker posted:As a short-term solution, it appears that it is possible for unincorporated organisations to file form 1023-EZ and be exempt from paying taxes. Something a proper tax accountant would need to speak to is not just in regards to the entity's taxes but, I know for corporate payrolls, funds being sent out to a different state from the one where the entity is incorporated have various different requirements based on the state the funds are being transferred to. I have absolutely no idea whether disbursements by a charity would have similar tracking requirements, or whether the recipient would then be on the hook for declaring the amount they receive as a source of income. I hope it is as simple as being able to just pull money from an account and push it to a person but is anyone certain there aren't stricter records requirements?
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Oct 17, 2022 20:26
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one thing id probably say is that instead of working upwards from rules, work downwards from prioritized principles. my suggestions would be: - trust for requesters - anonymity (safety of requesters) - speed of fulfillment - accountability of fund managers in that order get people to agree on the principles first, then see if you can agree on some rules that support those principles
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Oct 17, 2022 20:27
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i disagree, accountability for funds is the utmost important principle if i'm going to throw money at this, i have to make sure that not a single penny could possibly go to someone's graphics card
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Oct 17, 2022 20:29
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https://www.theselc.org/grassroots-finance the sustainable law center was linked in a post early in this thread, but maybe whoever wants to set this up might try reaching out and seeing if there is any assistance available? here is another article: https://www.shareable.net/how-to-set-up-a-mutual-aid-fund/
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Oct 17, 2022 20:30
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redneck nazgul posted:i disagree, accountability for funds is the utmost important principle Oh okay cool. What if they're a professional graphics designer down on their luck, and they need a new card to make a living?
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Oct 17, 2022 20:31
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Calibanibal posted:Oh okay cool. What if they're a professional graphics designer down on their luck, and they need a new card to make a living? they deserve to starve
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Oct 17, 2022 20:31
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Calibanibal posted:Oh okay cool. What if they're a professional graphics designer down on their luck, and they need a new card to make a living? That's at a level where a committee would vote on it, and likely given the amount request some kind of documentation as well to make their final decision. Also "new card" could mean a refurbished 2 series you can get for a couple hundred nowadays, not a brand new $1500 Nvidia 4090.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:34
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:Something a proper tax accountant would need to speak to is not just in regards to the entity's taxes but, I know for corporate payrolls, funds being sent out to a different state from the one where the entity is incorporated have various different requirements based on the state the funds are being transferred to. there's also an entire industry built on helping companies deal with this complexity so that they can, for example, hire someone in a different state and only pay a flat fee of a couple of hundred a month to an employer of record company that will handle all the reporting, taxes, and compliance with local employment laws i don't know if something analogous exists for the nonprofit sphere, but if i had to start a nonprofit that was going to pay people cash nationwide, that's where i would look first, with the intent to outsource everything i can
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Oct 17, 2022 20:36
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look, i'm not gonna make a request of this goon fund and i'm definitely never going to donate, and i'm probably gonna post about how funny it is that goons need a food fund because goons are fat and could stand to skip a few meals but if this fund doesn't generate a shipping container's worth of accounting logs for every single donation, then it's a loving scam and someone is gambling your money away on graphics cards
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Oct 17, 2022 20:39
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redneck nazgul posted:look, i'm not gonna make a request of this goon fund and i'm definitely never going to donate, and i'm probably gonna post about how funny it is that goons need a food fund because goons are fat and could stand to skip a few meals hey why not post productive things we can do to prevent that then, because I think mutual funds are good and cool even if you think starvation can be healthy I guess
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Oct 17, 2022 20:45
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lobster shirt posted:https://www.theselc.org/grassroots-finance So digging into that lead me to this document (which they use as a basis for how they disburse their funds):https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p3833.pdf  So it does look like you can bypass the need to record/report individual PII under the designation "short term emergency aid" but you'd want to clarify whether funds distributed electronically fit that criteria. Also good news is quote:"Payments that individuals receive under a charitable organization’s program as a result of a So it seems like specifying disbursed funds as disaster relief grants might be a path to look into
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Oct 17, 2022 20:45
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My issue with the one intake person is that it has to be someone everyone and anyone can trust, because otherwise you still run into the issue of only one person is seeing the requests and trusting that they didn't forget anyone or aren't purposefully excluding anyone. If it can't be automated to where there is no intake person, I think it should be the intake person is whoever on the committee first sees it and then they ask another member for their approval for disbursement unless it's an emergency and they can't wait. The risk is still, anyone on the committee has access to that person's information - but I also think it makes it more likely people feel confident that they trust at least one of the committee people rather than just the intake person.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:47
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Lady Radia posted:hey why not post productive things we can do to prevent that then, because I think mutual funds are good and cool even if you think starvation can be healthy I guess i think that requires a conversation with the securities and exchange commission
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Oct 17, 2022 20:48
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Calibanibal posted:really putting the mean in means testing lol
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Oct 17, 2022 20:48
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im gonan gently caress my avatar
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Oct 17, 2022 20:49
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Homeless Friend posted:im gonan gently caress my avatar finesparks?
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Oct 17, 2022 20:49
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This lib poo poo sucks
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Oct 17, 2022 20:52
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https://twitter.com/thewirestripped/status/1164385139008258048
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Oct 17, 2022 20:54
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really queer Christmas posted:My issue with the one intake person is that it has to be someone everyone and anyone can trust, because otherwise you still run into the issue of only one person is seeing the requests and trusting that they didn't forget anyone or aren't purposefully excluding anyone. If it can't be automated to where there is no intake person, I think it should be the intake person is whoever on the committee first sees it and then they ask another member for their approval for disbursement unless it's an emergency and they can't wait. The risk is still, anyone on the committee has access to that person's information - but I also think it makes it more likely people feel confident that they trust at least one of the committee people rather than just the intake person. yeah, the intake part should probably be automated. I really don't like the idea of a committee of people potentially seeing all the non anonymized requests before someone goes in and scrubs it. maybe that's just me, but that seems like a big one
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Oct 17, 2022 21:05
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