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Honestly though, this is a great illustration of what happens when liberals co-opt leftists spaces. Bog it down with inconsequential nonsense and gut it.
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Oct 17, 2022 21:32
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Barnum Brown Shoes posted:Honestly though, this is a great illustration of what happens when liberals co-opt leftists spaces. Bog it down with inconsequential nonsense and gut it. I think even like a modicum of transparency to at least pretend to show that donations are going to help people and aren't getting pocketed isn't the death of communism and the triumph of neoliberalism on these our very forums but that's just my opinion I guess. all plinkey really had to do was just write down anonymous records of what went out, which apparently was doxxing until Jeff asked them to do it, so hey maybe it all works out in the end. it's really hard to take the stance that says any transparency is impossible and will doxx extremely vulnerable people when the uk thread has somehow managed to do it for years and its not really a big deal (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 17, 2022 21:45
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I think even like a modicum of transparency to at least pretend to show that donations are going to help people and aren't getting pocketed isn't the death of communism and the triumph of neoliberalism on these our very forums but that's just my opinion I guess. It's good to have transparency in efforts especially if they involve money. That should be what every leftist group or effort strives for. l It's very weird to see people posting about how that is "lib poo poo".
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Oct 17, 2022 21:51
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AnimeIsTrash posted:It's good to have transparency in efforts especially if they involve money. That should be what every leftist group or effort strives for. l It's very weird to see people posting about how that is "lib poo poo".
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Oct 17, 2022 21:52
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Barnum Brown Shoes posted:Honestly though, this is a great illustration of what happens when liberals co-opt leftists spaces. Bog it down with inconsequential nonsense and gut it.
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Oct 17, 2022 21:53
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Plinkey should be held more accountable, but accountability does not involve accusing him of skimming money for his gambling addiction.AnimeIsTrash posted:It's good to have transparency in efforts especially if they involve money. That should be what every leftist group or effort strives for. l It's very weird to see people posting about how that is "lib poo poo". (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 17, 2022 21:53
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AnimeIsTrash posted:It's good to have transparency in efforts especially if they involve money. That should be what every leftist group or effort strives for. l It's very weird to see people posting about how that is "lib poo poo". There's just a fine line between wanting more transparency and then bogging an effort down in so much bureaucracy that you destroy the initiative before it can even begin In general, if something is functioning like the CIA's literal handbook to disrupt organizations, reconsider the paths being taken https://twitter.com/page_eco/status/1292236241610502144?s=20&t=J2wPtQSk9zd3ghZ9FMf9Og
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Oct 17, 2022 21:54
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AnimeIsTrash posted:It's good to have transparency in efforts especially if they involve money. That should be what every leftist group or effort strives for. l It's very weird to see people posting about how that is "lib poo poo". 100% that said if the outcome of this whole thing is that a good thing gets shut down and a committee debates rules for a year with nothing to replace it that will objectively suck plinkeys concept that highly values quick results, trust/respect for people who need help, is a good thing and just needs a public (anonymous) record of cash flow, and ideally to avoid the 20% patreon cut. that was my very low effort takeaway anyhow
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Oct 17, 2022 21:55
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Barnum Brown Shoes posted:Honestly though, this is a great illustration of what happens when liberals co-opt leftists spaces. Bog it down with inconsequential nonsense and gut it. its called organising because you are organised you larping fucks (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 17, 2022 21:56
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:There's just a fine line between wanting more transparency and then bogging an effort down in so much bureaucracy that you destroy the initiative before it can even begin Do you think that community oversight over something like this a big ask? I haven't read every single page of this thread but from what I have read no one seems to be asking for the bureaucratic levels that you are suggesting.
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Oct 17, 2022 22:02
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I think theres a significant difference between "a couple trusted folks vote on approving a request" and "draconian bureaucratic hell world that takes 9 years to navigate" E: I've been sitting on this quote for an eventual china argument, wasnt expecting it to be applicable here Organization and taking precautions is not the sole domain of liberals looking to means test aid to 0, and doing otherwise makes it really easy to collapse your poo poo Theres a lot of questions and tape to tackle around forming an NGO and getting tax-exempt status (which I think is worth doing, to avoid taxation on donations & offer the deductible incentive), but the actual "aid to people" bit is exactly the same as the start of the thread: someone asks for aid -> a group of folks check it -> person gets aid Neurolimal has issued a correction as of 22:22 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 17, 2022 22:14
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I'm saying until you get a tax expert talking to someone in this thread, all the speculation of how to form this are entirely theoretical and probably very wrong. So you need to crowdsource hopefully from the community, someone who has expertise on doing that in the US, or at least put out legitimate feelers to other organizations before you even begin to talk about how to disburse theoretical money because it may not be a case where legally a committee gets to vote in a way that could be viewed as discriminatory to the recipient without documenting why a disbursement happened or not (which is something that prior document suggests might be necessary)
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Oct 17, 2022 22:17
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lol
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Oct 17, 2022 22:25
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:I'm saying until you get a tax expert talking to someone in this thread, all the speculation of how to form this are entirely theoretical and probably very wrong. So you need to crowdsource hopefully from the community, someone who has expertise on doing that in the US, or at least put out legitimate feelers to other organizations before you even begin to talk about how to disburse theoretical money because it may not be a case where legally a committee gets to vote in a way that could be viewed as discriminatory to the recipient without documenting why a disbursement happened or not (which is something that prior document suggests might be necessary) spoiler alert they're not gonna do poo poo lol
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Oct 17, 2022 22:26
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:I'm saying until you get a tax expert talking to someone in this thread, all the speculation of how to form this are entirely theoretical and probably very wrong. So you need to crowdsource hopefully from the community, someone who has expertise on doing that in the US, or at least put out legitimate feelers to other organizations before you even begin to talk about how to disburse theoretical money because it may not be a case where legally a committee gets to vote in a way that could be viewed as discriminatory to the recipient without documenting why a disbursement happened or not (which is something that prior document suggests might be necessary) come on dude
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Oct 17, 2022 22:27
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if no one trying to get this off the ground can get a single bfc numbers nerd to volunteer some time you dont deserve to run it
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Oct 17, 2022 22:28
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AnimeIsTrash posted:come on dude I thought they were going to stop posting when they claimed such in qcs but I guess I'm a moron
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Oct 17, 2022 22:29
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yeah, there have been people posting here with actual experience with various nonprofits how much of that experience transfers to running a nationwide cash-disbursing charity i don't know but the first step would be to get a few of those goons and see if any of them are willing to put their names on the papers to get this goon project incorporated
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Oct 17, 2022 22:32
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Dustcat posted:yeah, there have been people posting here with actual experience with various nonprofits i think also it would be good to get a list of questions to be answered by a tax lawyer, to get a sense of what the best options and dos/donts are. that's gonna take some cash. if someone wants to start a Google doc of questions I'd be happy to chip in for initial lawyer consultation once people know what they want to ask
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Oct 17, 2022 22:39
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fun hater posted:
im not understanding this obsession with anonymity or how impossible it is to manage taxes for a charity or rules for voting. if the board chosen by the person running the charity can generate data showing its not being misappropriated and keeps a tally of monthly denied requests that can be expounded upon, then whats the problem e: lmfao come on with this lawyer sandbagging poo poo.
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Oct 17, 2022 22:43
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speng31b posted:i think also it would be good to get a list of questions to be answered by a tax lawyer, to get a sense of what the best options and dos/donts are. I also am more than willing to help pay for consultation with a lawyer, if it ends up being necessary. I’d like to help beyond that but I don’t really know where to begin. What do you even need for something like this?
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Oct 17, 2022 22:44
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speng31b posted:i think also it would be good to get a list of questions to be answered by a tax lawyer, to get a sense of what the best options and dos/donts are. well my first question would be "can our nonprofit disburse cash to someone in another state when all that is known about them is a username and an email address" because if there's some KYC/antiterrorism law reason that you'd need to verify their real identity then things get complicated
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Oct 17, 2022 22:45
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fun hater posted:im not understanding this obsession with anonymity also, doxxing and whatnot, for what that's worth
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Oct 17, 2022 22:47
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It's very funny plinkey came in to get mad at people for derailing his gambling fund instead of literally any other response that might make him look legit (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 17, 2022 22:49
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Dustcat posted:well my first question would be "can our nonprofit disburse cash to someone in another state when all that is known about them is a username and an email address" because if there's some KYC/antiterrorism law reason that you'd need to verify their real identity then things get complicated ?????????? what on earth. World Famous W posted:culturally we are taught to feel shame from asking for charity hat in hand and by making it known its anonymous may lead to some who wouldn't seek help do so im on food stamps man, i get it. but the idea that someone is going to get doxxed bc someone made a note in a ledger w their username and amount paid is delusional. its not like that info has to be forward facing. just kept on hand for accounting purposes
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Oct 17, 2022 22:51
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fun hater posted:?????????? what on earth. 
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Oct 17, 2022 22:55
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O_o
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Oct 17, 2022 22:55
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fun hater posted:?????????? what on earth.
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Oct 17, 2022 22:55
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Keep poo poo anonymous, poor people don't need to feel like they're on another list
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Oct 17, 2022 22:56
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ButterSkeleton posted:Keep poo poo anonymous, poor people don't need to feel like they're on another list No but what if they're terrorists? This is a very real and legitimate concern and no motion should happen on this fund unless it is solved to my personal satisfaction. e; if you do not follow my demands, there will be a QCS thread I can promise you that
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Oct 17, 2022 22:58
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weird how everyone keeps posting hypotheticals for how this is impossible and will doxx people yet there's a fund ongoing for 3 years that manages to both help people without doxxing them and be transparent about their donations ah well, nevertheless
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Oct 17, 2022 22:58
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World Famous W posted:ok, do we have to prove how poor we are now? i will if so but would prefer not to. either way, that's what others have brought forward i dont care ButterSkeleton posted:Keep poo poo anonymous, poor people don't need to feel like they're on another list all lists are the same, including the ones my friends make to help me with finances. its exactly like being on the fbi most wanted
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Oct 17, 2022 22:59
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searching post histories to own people who have asked for money to survive tough times
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Oct 17, 2022 23:00
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fun hater posted:i dont care Do you have any empathy for people or do you have a personality disorder lol
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Oct 17, 2022 23:01
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WoodrowSkillson posted:searching post histories to own people who have asked for money to survive tough times Who is doing this?
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Oct 17, 2022 23:01
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World Famous W posted:ok, do we have to prove how poor we are now? i will if so but would prefer not to. either way, that's what others have brought forward I don’t see why you would have to. It can be easily obfuscated, too. Change the username in the document to User A or User 1 so that when you check the documents all you see is that User A asked for $25 in June and $10 September, etc
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Oct 17, 2022 23:02
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fun hater posted:i dont care
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Oct 17, 2022 23:03
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This is going to take years. Enjoy.
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Oct 17, 2022 23:03
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ButterSkeleton posted:Do you have any empathy for people or do you have a personality disorder lol ive been posting charity suggestions for a forum i find morally repugnant. im going straight to heaven for this
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Oct 17, 2022 23:03
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fun hater posted:?????????? what on earth. no, it's a genuine question: is it legal for the charity to disburse all this cash to people it doesn't know the identities of? maybe it is, maybe it even obviously is, but i don't know personally
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Oct 17, 2022 23:03
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