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Qwertycoatl posted:The smarter nobles can probably see that like it or not technological advancement is going to make it so that war isn't about highly trained elite knights and if they want to keep their place in society they'd better branch out to something else. Of course, aether is a great equalizer on that on front. Not every Knight is going to be able to stop a bullet with an aether field like Charibert does, but if you have enough aether to, say, use an aethernet crystal, you probably have enough to at least enhance the protection normal armor gives you, and that can be a difference maker that never existed in the real world. There's a reason that Stephan embraced a magitek aether-generator as part of his gunplay discipline instead of just making guns, if he really wanted to level the playing the field he needed to make sure those who enjoy a magical advantage couldn't kill his technology in its crib. There's also the fact that Ishgard has access to furite, an exotic magical material for their weapons and armor that helps prop the Knight up even more. There's reasons beyond offering an olive branch that Stephan suggested Knights and Machinists working together would be a good idea.
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Oct 16, 2022 22:49
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somewhere lolorito is kicking up his tiny heels, smiling a poo poo-eating grin, and saying 'welcome to the club, friends' to some nice House emissaries asking so how -do- you set up an ablative monarchy
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Oct 16, 2022 23:07
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Also, another revolutionary that got into things without too clear of an idea what would happen afterwards was ARR Ysayle, who had fanatically loyal followers who gladly gave their lives, tended to be 'take no prisoners' with their opponents and jumped in without a clear idea for peace except 'The Dragons are right, down with the church' and ended up causing a massacre, and one that could have been much worse if not for the Scions.
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Oct 16, 2022 23:26
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Qwertycoatl posted:The smarter nobles can probably see that like it or not technological advancement is going to make it so that war isn't about highly trained elite knights and if they want to keep their place in society they'd better branch out to something else. I actually don't know if this is true. Local physics (magic, etc) mean that knights can still play a remarkable role, and guns aren't actually superior to hand weapons or guaranteed to pierce armor in universe. Hydaelyn has had fusiliers in various forms for a while now. What the machinists do is even the playing field and allow Ishgard to field massed levies in concert with the knights.
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Oct 17, 2022 02:07
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I'm waiting for the rest of the story to comment everything, but the Samurai 60-70 story is probably the single biggest reason I think Kugane was a mistake and is the worst part of Stormblood.
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Oct 17, 2022 02:49
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On a lighter note, I, too, picked "Senior Sabotender is not a real Sabotender?!".
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Oct 17, 2022 10:15
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The Make It Rain event was a few months ago -- how far are you through the game now? Have you finished up 4.0? vvv Ahh, got it. Feldegast42 fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 17, 2022 14:45
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Sanguinia inserts the seasonal events where she thinks they would best fit in the narrative she's telling in the Let's Play and not strictly in the order she's done them (or other things) in game.
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Oct 17, 2022 14:56
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ConanThe3rd posted:On a lighter note, I, too, picked "Senior Sabotender is not a real Sabotender?!". I def went with the sabo is real option and got blank stares for my kayfabe
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Oct 17, 2022 19:56
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Feldegast42 posted:The Make It Rain event was a few months ago -- how far are you through the game now? Have you finished up 4.0? Without being too specific, I will say that due to the really brutal year we've been having at school sharply curtailing my posting rate, I'm a fair bit further ahead than I was throughout Heavensward, but I've also found things to limit my forward progression so the gap doesn't get too much greater.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:57
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My biggest mark against the SAM 60-70 questline is simply that it exists. You can make a thousand and one cases for why it's good, actually, to side with the cops, but at the end of the day, someone looked at this expansion about revolution and freedom, and declared that the samurais were gonna be a bunch of loving cops. If ninja is consistently amazing and nailing the class fantasy, Samurai bungles it as hard as possible here. Especially after the first samurai questline was all about being the lone wandering ronin bringing justice to evil. I'd even say that these two questlines, thematically, would've worked better had they been swapped - start players off as lovely cops, and then let them leave in disgust and really dig into the wandering blade of justice. But frankly, the right move would've been not writing the questline where you have to be a lovely cop in the first place.
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Oct 18, 2022 03:00
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But at least you’re not an ultra lovely cop like you are in ARR/HW Paladin. 
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Oct 18, 2022 03:08
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ProfessorCirno posted:My biggest mark against the SAM 60-70 questline is simply that it exists. You can make a thousand and one cases for why it's good, actually, to side with the cops, but at the end of the day, someone looked at this expansion about revolution and freedom, and declared that the samurais were gonna be a bunch of loving cops. If ninja is consistently amazing and nailing the class fantasy, Samurai bungles it as hard as possible here. Especially after the first samurai questline was all about being the lone wandering ronin bringing justice to evil. I'd even say that these two questlines, thematically, would've worked better had they been swapped - start players off as lovely cops, and then let them leave in disgust and really dig into the wandering blade of justice. But frankly, the right move would've been not writing the questline where you have to be a lovely cop in the first place. You're wrong.
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Oct 18, 2022 03:35
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Regalingualius posted:But at least you’re not an ultra lovely cop like you are in ARR/HW Paladin. HW Paladin fails to even be a cop story at all.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:15
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ProfessorCirno posted:My biggest mark against the SAM 60-70 questline is simply that it exists. You can make a thousand and one cases for why it's good, actually, to side with the cops, but at the end of the day, someone looked at this expansion about revolution and freedom, and declared that the samurais were gonna be a bunch of loving cops. If ninja is consistently amazing and nailing the class fantasy, Samurai bungles it as hard as possible here. Especially after the first samurai questline was all about being the lone wandering ronin bringing justice to evil. I'd even say that these two questlines, thematically, would've worked better had they been swapped - start players off as lovely cops, and then let them leave in disgust and really dig into the wandering blade of justice. But frankly, the right move would've been not writing the questline where you have to be a lovely cop in the first place.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:27
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The real samurai class fantasy is realizing that although your ancestors fought and bled as the designated combatants, you got nothing out of it save a stipend and warrior culture as a ball and chain.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:33
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I wonder if the whole 'samurai cop' plays differently if you're from Japan and learned more about the Sengoku period in school and such.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:34
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Khizan posted:I wonder if the whole 'samurai cop' plays differently if you're from Japan and learned more about the Sengoku period in school and such.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:48
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I've been avoiding trying to characterize 60-70 SAM too much, but it's definitely more a Bakamatsu inspired thing than Sengoku. It's not really a spoiler to say that the plot involving the not-Shinsengumi was probably written by a big fan of the Shinsengumi.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:51
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Also some writers just aren't very critical about cops. Goons are (pretty reasonably I think) strongly ACAB sorts but I dunno that the FFXIV writer's room is pulling from the same kind of context.
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Oct 18, 2022 05:30
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The only good cops are the Rogues, enforcing the pirate code.
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Oct 18, 2022 06:28
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I can't look at this guy and not see bearded Keanu Reeves.
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Oct 18, 2022 06:40
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I do get the feelings mind you, but I feel it's consistent with how FFXIV has been playing it as a whole. Even the liberation of Ala Mhigo is something that the Scions, besides Lyse, were wary about. The sanctity of life tends to count for a lot, and Revolution is the last resort.
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Oct 18, 2022 07:09
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Khizan posted:I wonder if the whole 'samurai cop' plays differently if you're from Japan and learned more about the Sengoku period in school and such. This just led me to picturing the Job Quests being based on Samurai Cop, which would be a big improvement.
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Oct 18, 2022 15:14
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FeatherFloat posted:Also some writers just aren't very critical about cops. Goons are (pretty reasonably I think) strongly ACAB sorts but I dunno that the FFXIV writer's room is pulling from the same kind of context. There's definitely several Discourse heavy parts where the game reminds you that they are ultimately very soft liberals on a lot of issues, and it comes out hardest when looking at issues regarding 1) refugees, 2) racial minorities and their treatment, and 3) "law and order." The Archer questline is one of the lowest moments of that, but also definitely not the only case of it.
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Oct 18, 2022 18:20
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ProfessorCirno posted:There's definitely several Discourse heavy parts where the game reminds you that they are ultimately very soft liberals on a lot of issues, and it comes out hardest when looking at issues regarding 1) refugees, 2) racial minorities and their treatment, and 3) "law and order." The Archer questline is one of the lowest moments of that, but also definitely not the only case of it. There's also some moments where I feel they kneecap the WoL by going "ha ha, you're an MMO protagonist and this means you're a tireless adrenaline monkey who will do anything for money and a challenge." I got tired of that self-referential joke multiple expansions ago in WoW and always give it side-eye when it crops up in MMOs.
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Oct 18, 2022 18:31
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FeatherFloat posted:Also some writers just aren't very critical about cops. Goons are (pretty reasonably I think) strongly ACAB sorts but I dunno that the FFXIV writer's room is pulling from the same kind of context. It's funny because they went out of their way to center stage the systemic corruption of the Brass Blades in the MSQ both by showing us that there was only one decent person among their officer ranks and by having them take part in Ul'dah's coup and generally be a paramilitary extension of business interests at the same time they are serving police. They also show how even the most well-meaning Yellow Jacket captain ended up being a shameless arrogant tool high on her own supply that almost led to the government being brought down in Limsa. And don't get me started on the Temple Knights But they've definitely tapped the brakes since... I'd say roughly the end of the 3.0 plot.
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Oct 18, 2022 21:15
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partially because ff14 is imagining a world where things can get better due to heroic intervention, as one may expect from a fantasy story not written by the online
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Oct 18, 2022 21:52
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its been said in other threads but it's for the best that none of us are writers or in charge of game design
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Oct 18, 2022 22:29
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hazardousmouse posted:its been said in other threads but it's for the best that none of us are writers or in charge of game design I’m telling ya, as soon as that Ideas Guy position opens up, Yoshi-P will be personally calling me
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Oct 19, 2022 00:20
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Regalingualius posted:I’m telling ya, as soon as that Ideas Guy position opens up, Yoshi-P will be personally calling me Every live letter has been asking for an Ideas Guy though.
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Oct 19, 2022 00:52
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hazardousmouse posted:its been said in other threads but it's for the best that none of us are writers or in charge of game design Everyone would hate if I wrote a storyline for this game, but for an entirely different reason than they'd expect to hate it.
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Oct 19, 2022 01:01
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It's canon for me that, despite having Nanaphon explain it to her multiple times, my WoL still thinks Senor Sabotender is a real sabotender.
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Oct 19, 2022 01:15
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hazardousmouse posted:its been said in other threads but it's for the best that none of us are writers or in charge of game design As one of those things I am offended, no matter how accurate it is.
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Oct 19, 2022 02:02
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Lazy Fair posted:It's canon for me that, despite having Nanaphon explain it to her multiple times, my WoL still thinks Senor Sabotender is a real sabotender. I really do love when they do give the option to play the WoL as completely oblivious.
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Oct 19, 2022 03:45
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Mordiceius posted:I really do love when they do give the option to play the WoL as completely oblivious. I hope if we ever get the KingdomHearts crossover there will be an option to call organization xiii “Ascians” every time.
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Oct 19, 2022 03:47
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I think the writers going "ha ha you're an MMO protagonist" is not in the same category of grating and/or questionable as "but... cops are often okay and important parts of society" or "gosh people are mean to these oppressed categories of people! Oh well."Mister Olympus posted:partially because ff14 is imagining a world where things can get better due to heroic intervention, as one may expect from a fantasy story not written by the online This is pretty much where I land in regards to this stuff. The flaw in some of this, if one considers those bits to be flawed, lies in the writers wishing to write a heroic story of a better world where sometimes the people in charge are okay, and also you can just beat the hell out of the problem and that'll generally help fix it. but yes, also: Sanguinia posted:It's funny because they went out of their way to center stage the systemic corruption of the Brass Blades in the MSQ both by showing us that there was only one decent person among their officer ranks and by having them take part in Ul'dah's coup and generally be a paramilitary extension of business interests at the same time they are serving police. They also show how even the most well-meaning Yellow Jacket captain ended up being a shameless arrogant tool high on her own supply that almost led to the government being brought down in Limsa. And don't get me started on the Temple Knights But they've definitely tapped the brakes since... I'd say roughly the end of the 3.0 plot. That's... a really interesting point that I hadn't noticed. I know some people have felt that the ARR to HW storytelling was done with a particular lean towards darker fantasy (or at least the writers had read a lot of Game of Thrones), and that the later story moves away from that.... and hmm, maybe that's a symptom of this slight narrative shift. FeatherFloat fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Oct 19, 2022 |
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Oct 19, 2022 05:25
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Thankfully we helped the correct faction of cops in Heavensward and helped get another faction of cops started, too, as a bonus.
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Oct 19, 2022 05:30
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Hogama posted:Thankfully we helped the correct faction of cops in Heavensward and helped get another faction of cops started, too, as a bonus. 
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Oct 19, 2022 05:32
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Aymeric's too fancy to sleep in the bin.
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Oct 19, 2022 05:36
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