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I just balance the class by being dumb as hell and unable to play the game well  But to be honest, I don't get the complaints about the class. Yes, it can be broken, but that's only if you play it as such. I don't get people saying "i played 3Sp and it ruined the game". Nobody makes you play it that way.
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Oct 15, 2022 18:33
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SalTheBard posted:Yeah I was worried about my play group getting frustrated with me doing really OP stuff so I tried to not go as hog wild as I possibly could, although we were doing a scenario with a bunch of oozes so carpet bombing them all with a 12 hex 5 damage attack with advantage on all the attacks every round was the optimal strategy.
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Oct 15, 2022 19:20
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Sereri posted:I just balance the class by being dumb as hell and unable to play the game well You do have to know it’s there to avoid it. And personally if I bought a car or something and it had a giant red button labeled DO NOT PRESS WILL gently caress UP EVERYTHING I’d call that at best a questionable design decision. Game design is a real thing worth critiquing and saying you can ignore problems doesn’t help anyone. At best it’s a bullshit conversation ender and it’s very often there to paper over real problems that hurt new players and just make grogs feel smug.
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Oct 15, 2022 19:34
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also the thing thats coolest, unique, and most exciting to lean into about that class (the item poo poo you can get up to) is what makes it overpowered. even minor "abuse" of three spear's item mechanics will lead to the class shining very brightly, my group just had one retire and the only reason they didn't feel stupid even without going infinite or whatever is because we also had music note and eclipse so everyone was ludicrously busted pre-retirements. and if you aren't doing item stuff I don't really see the appeal of the class, it's just sort of a bland melee character with a handful of somewhat unique AoE patterns. i guess you could like ~*~the flavor~*~ but I don't think that's really useful when discussing balance
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Oct 15, 2022 21:32
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I loved playing 3 spears -- yeah you can go infinite, but you still have off-turns where you accomplish very little, and ultimately it doesn't help you when at the end of the scenario you're staring down a corridor full of enemies and your buddies are exhausted because you didn't pull your full weight and instead dawdled around every other turn or so to refresh your pots. To be fair that only happened once in one of the infamous ooze scenarios.. My fav class was probably Angry Face though. Can't wait to see what crazyness Frosthaven will bring to the table.
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Oct 15, 2022 22:24
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Xiahou Dun posted:Game design is a real thing worth critiquing and saying you can ignore problems doesn’t help anyone. This is fair. Xiahou Dun posted:At best it’s a bullshit conversation ender and it’s very often there to paper over real problems that hurt new players and just make grogs feel smug. This is a bit nuclear considering the prompt.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:07
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I trust our more experienced designers and playtesters but what frosthaven icon unlockable will be the new overpowered one? Anyone want to place their bets? It will let the people with beta spoilers laugh at us. I'll say the astral one.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:41
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Eediot Jedi posted:This is fair. Okay then what purpose does one player having an infinite loop and others not serve? Saying “you can ignore it” is bullshit and unhelpful to the conversation. Imagine if you were trying to fix a problem in your daily life and a stranger apropos of nothing suggested that.
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Oct 15, 2022 23:43
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bagrada posted:I trust our more experienced designers and playtesters but what frosthaven icon unlockable will be the new overpowered one? Anyone want to place their bets? It will let the people with beta spoilers laugh at us. I'll say the astral one. From my own experience playing the frosthaven starters that are available to everyone, I don't think there's going to be anything on a similar scale of overpoweredness that Eclipse, Music Notes, or Three Spears bring to the table. They overall seem to have much less of a focus on individual power and more of an emphasis on team synergy. Granted I could be wrong and there could be weird poo poo like Coral has a weird way to triple bane every creature on the board but I doubt that. All that said, I hope whatever the Savvas class is ends up being super OP (idk which one that'll be. Maybe star-moon)
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Oct 16, 2022 00:42
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Xiahou Dun posted:Okay then what purpose does one player having an infinite loop and others not serve? Because even from the standpoint of "how do I most effectively win the mission" you should ignore the potential infinite loop. It's mediocre in terms of things-accomplished-per-turn. If you're playing on an appropriate difficulty level then you're more likely to lose missions by wasting turns loving around with it while your allies all die. It's like complaining about the "bad game design" of the Scoundrel running off to grab all the treasure while leaving everyone else to fight the monsters. The answer is the Scoundrel player should try to win the mission instead of doing that!
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Oct 16, 2022 00:54
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Jabor posted:Because even from the standpoint of "how do I most effectively win the mission" you should ignore the potential infinite loop. It's mediocre in terms of things-accomplished-per-turn. If you're playing on an appropriate difficulty level then you're more likely to lose missions by wasting turns loving around with it while your allies all die. Don’t tell me what my argument is. Okay, so sure, let’s pretend that the infinite loop is the only thing I meant and it wasn’t just pointing out a symptom of a larger problem with how they did a bad design. It’s not, but for the purpose of discussion we’ll pretend. What does having it add to the game? It’s not as good as just playing so it’s what, a trap? Why should it be kept in the design of the game. What does it do that’s fun? (Your scoundrel example is entirely spurious. She’s better at looting than some classes but not so much to be hugely different, she can’t get infinite coins, she’s got the same motivations for money as everyone else (buying stuff, battle goals/personal quests) and it’s actual intra group interaction rather just quietly causing the game to stop literally forever because that’s what infinite means) Are you arguing against making the game better or do you actually think this is a feature that should be kept?
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Oct 16, 2022 01:05
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I'm saying it's not a "real problem" that "hurts new players".
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Oct 16, 2022 01:28
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Oenis posted:My fav class was probably Angry Face though. Can't wait to see what crazyness Frosthaven will bring to the table. I played Angry Face a whole bunch on tabletop and more on Guildmaster and it's kinda a weird class (but also a fun one). You've got three broad flavours (summons, shooting, traps) but two of them are things that Gloomhaven doesn't do that well in general. This means that you're mostly limited to shooting, but since the class has the most generous hand size in the game (to account for the losses associated with the things you aren't doing) at low levels you don't have enough ranged attacks to use up over an entire rest cycle and end up meleeing or resting early. It's not a bad class at low levels but it feels kinda clunky before level 3.
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Oct 16, 2022 01:29
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Jabor posted:I'm saying it's not a "real problem" that "hurts new players". O well then you're wrong and an idiot. That was easy.
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Oct 16, 2022 01:55
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Xiahou Dun posted:Okay then what purpose does one player having an infinite loop and others not serve? lol I meant the first part was stated well, the second part was going too hard too fast. You're pre-emptively strawmanning anyone disagreeing with you as a smug grog, stifling discussion, hurting new players, implicating by association the person you responded to is in that sweaty pile as well. It's not weird for a player to come in and say they didn't have that problem with three spears, they didn't find it or had no interest in exploiting it. I don't need to image that life situation, I get it all the time. That's not like talking about a game's balance. Games get played in different ways, by intent (power gaming vs chill for example), by happenstance (misunderstanding rules, or just not seeing rule interactions). Someone playing gloomhaven differently to me is nothing like someone lecturing me how to live my life, apropos of nothing.
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Oct 16, 2022 02:11
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Eediot Jedi posted:lol I was having a conversation about a problem, when someone came in to tell me that they didn't have that problem or didn't care. Since that problem demonstrably exists, it's pointless to point out a spot where it doesn't exist. At best that's very unhelpful and slightly rude and I don't particularly have any sympathy because I've had this conversation 4 thousand times where someone says, "O game balance doesn't matter if you're actually playing the game instead of doing math like a nerd." This isn't about how someone plays Gloomhaven at home. They can eat their entire box piece by piece with jam and crackers for all the shits I give, I'm not telling them to do anything. They are telling me that I'm wrong for how I play, i.e. paying attention, however. I'm talking about how to make the math in the game not absolutely bum-jumped broken and it's a lot easier to break math than fix it. So I ask again, what is your goal here? What are you trying to accomplish with this conversation? I was happily having the actual conversation I wanted to have until we started this so unless you actually have a point could you, maybe, not?
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Oct 16, 2022 02:19
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Xiahou Dun posted:I was having a conversation about a problem, when someone came in to tell me that they didn't have that problem or didn't care. Since that problem demonstrably exists, it's pointless to point out a spot where it doesn't exist. You were an rear end in a top hat, you weren't justified being an rear end in a top hat. That was it. I'm glad you invented someone to get mad at and ruined your own conversation lmao.
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Oct 16, 2022 04:29
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Eediot Jedi posted:You were an rear end in a top hat, you weren't justified being an rear end in a top hat. That was it. I'm glad you invented someone to get mad at and ruined your own conversation lmao. So you don't have a point. Okay.
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Oct 16, 2022 04:33
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What is with everyone in TG being super salty today? I swear that in every thread I read someone is just going off about something stupid involving cardboard and wood/plastic bits. Please chill out about games. On the two minis discussion from earlier, you are a bear. I think there’s another character that you can sometimes use to pick up a coin or something? ALL BEAR ALL THE TIME OR YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG I WILL FIGHT YOU. Bear. Also trying to contribute to a scenario with the all bear build while the bear AI is constantly loving it up is one of the most fun things you can do in gloomhaven. I really hope there’s a frosthaven class that is a harrower but made entirely of bears. A bearrower.
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Oct 16, 2022 04:57
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looking forward to Frosthaven digital in 2025 or whenever
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Oct 16, 2022 07:25
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Two minis discussion a guy I used to game with was playing this class wrong, letting himself just pick the bear's movement and attacks instead of using the summoned monster rules. He was pissed when I pointed out how it actually works because it turns out the class in an interesting puzzle when you play it correctly instead of a bear smashing everything for maximum damage.
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Oct 16, 2022 08:13
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bagrada posted:I trust our more experienced designers and playtesters but what frosthaven icon unlockable will be the new overpowered one? Anyone want to place their bets? It will let the people with beta spoilers laugh at us. I'll say the astral one. At the very least, I know nobody will be Eclipse/Note/Spears OP. That bullshit is long gone. ON ANOTHER NOTE - Guys and gals, we all love this game. Let's please not go full aggro. There's no need to do it, and it's okay for people to be wrong on the internet.
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Oct 16, 2022 14:13
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bagrada posted:I trust our more experienced designers and playtesters but what frosthaven icon unlockable will be the new overpowered one? Anyone want to place their bets? It will let the people with beta spoilers laugh at us. I'll say the astral one. Fist is going to be the most OP. Nothing beats rock, good old rock.
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Oct 16, 2022 14:20
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LongDarkNight posted:Fist is going to be the most OP. Nothing beats rock, good old rock.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:02
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dwarf74 posted:it's okay for people to be wrong on the internet. WHAT?!?!
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Oct 16, 2022 17:20
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Elephant Ambush posted:WHAT?!?! FH is so close for some people I can feel it.
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Oct 16, 2022 19:53
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dwarf74 posted:It hurts, I know. I'm very hopeful that i'll get mine before christmas. I won't be particularly disappointed if I don't get it because i'm still going through Crimson Scales, but I really want to see what all the extra classes end up being 
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Oct 16, 2022 19:55
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The hardest part of getting Frosthaven will be not immediately ripping open all the sealed boxes to see what all the new classes are. That, and actually getting people together to play on a regular basis since we've gotten so spoiled by GH digital. I really like not always having to be the guy doing all the monster and summon movement.
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Oct 16, 2022 21:56
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yeah, unfortunately(?) for me my old GH group has long since dissolved so I've been strictly digital with online friends, and there's no way I could go back to in-person. especially with how the bits I've seen of FH imply that things are even a bit more complicated now (the starter classes are definitely more involved than the GH ones) having that in digital form is basically a requirement for me. hopefully I'll get to enjoy it in 2027 or w/e.
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Oct 16, 2022 22:15
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My gloomhaven group backed something like 15 kickstarters while not meeting much during the pandemic years. We have so, so many games we've only played once if at all, and Frosthaven is coming soon. Uprising, Tainted Grail, Great Wall, Brass Birmingham, Nemesis, Castle of Mad King Ludwig, Alone, Ark Nova, Cloudspire, Oathsworn, Twilight Inscription, ahhhhhh Kalli fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Oct 16, 2022 |
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Oct 16, 2022 22:20
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Arrrthritis posted:I'm very hopeful that i'll get mine before christmas. I won't be particularly disappointed if I don't get it because i'm still going through Crimson Scales, but I really want to see what all the extra classes end up being
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Oct 17, 2022 01:30
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I'm kinda hoping it lands right at Christmas. I think the optimal time to get my group back together will be just after when winter is hitting hard and there is poo poo all else to do. Then we can hopefully ride that momentum through summer with weekly sessions.
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Oct 19, 2022 15:01
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Just saw a news article that Feuerland will price the German edition of Frosthaven at 400€ 
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Oct 29, 2022 15:27
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That's quite steep, but I guess a smaller economy of scale and the shipping crisis and everything else compounding, it is what it is. Is the MSRP for the english version still $250?
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Oct 29, 2022 21:28
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Yeah. Expect this to happen to every big board game in time. Frosthaven is probably on the highest end yeah.
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Oct 29, 2022 22:51
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It’s probably also going to show up for $150 somewhere toward the end of next year, and it’s not packed full of kickstarter exclusives, so if you’re willing to wait then you can probably save some money. With how big Gloomhaven was I’m sure they’ll be printing Frosthaven nonstop for the next couple years.
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Oct 30, 2022 04:39
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For sure. And it should be available during the minis Backerkit too.
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Oct 30, 2022 21:24
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No idea if this is the Kentucky or Nevada fulfillment center but either one would mean it’s a few days to a week ahead of the last scheduled dates. Based on last week’s KS update the first out the door will be to Canada and then US fulfillment starts. 
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Nov 3, 2022 21:02
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Frosthaven is basically, like, Gloom Canada, so it checks out. (it'll probably be delivered to the US first since it will need to clear the border before delivering to the Great White North.)
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Nov 3, 2022 22:54
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dwarf74 posted:Frosthaven is basically, like, Gloom Canada, so it checks out. Yea the update made it seem like they were starting to prep the Canadian shipment first because they had to ship in chunks and give time to clear border procedure, but once they start US shipping it will get to people pretty directly.
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Nov 4, 2022 00:13
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