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Hans is the next Billy Mitchell. Generally speaking suing someone for calling you a cheater when you've admitted to cheating is not a great tactic. Also he literally filed this after finishing a national championship in which he didn't come close to winning despite being the player who beat Magnus!
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Oct 20, 2022 21:47
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Scipiotik posted:Hans is the next Billy Mitchell. Generally speaking suing someone for calling you a cheater when you've admitted to cheating is not a great tactic. Also he literally filed this after finishing a national championship in which he didn't come close to winning despite being the player who beat Magnus! His performance rating in the US Championships was almost exactly his actual rating, as expected. And the way chess.com behaved during all this has been pretty terrible. They released a huge report that essentially cleared him of cheating OTB.
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Oct 20, 2022 21:51
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Chess rules
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Oct 20, 2022 22:00
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tractor fanatic posted:They released a huge report that essentially cleared him of cheating OTB. No?
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Oct 20, 2022 22:16
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107. Many people have stated they do not like me and do not want me playing
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Oct 20, 2022 22:43
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Control Volume posted:Forums>Traditional Games> Chess: Many people have stated they do not like me and do not want me playing
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Oct 20, 2022 22:51
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Control Volume posted:Chess: Many people have stated they do not like me and do not want me playing
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Oct 20, 2022 22:54
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Control Volume posted:107. Many people have stated they do not like me and do not want me playing 
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Oct 20, 2022 22:56
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Control Volume posted:107. Many people have stated they do not like me and do not want me playing
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Oct 20, 2022 22:57
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Control Volume posted:107. Many people have stated they do not like me and do not want me playing
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Oct 20, 2022 22:57
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tractor fanatic posted:His performance rating in the US Championships was almost exactly his actual rating, as expected. And the way chess.com behaved during all this has been pretty terrible. They released a huge report that essentially cleared him of cheating OTB. They didn't clear him, and cheaters are cheaters. He really should get a couple year ban from tournaments.
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Oct 20, 2022 23:05
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Very excited for this thread title to show up in court as evidence of a wider pro-magnus conspiracy
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Oct 20, 2022 23:13
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Scipiotik posted:They didn't clear him, and cheaters are cheaters. He really should get a couple year ban from tournaments. They did. They are extremely clear in their report there's nothing suspicious about him OTB except for his rapid rise, and even the tournaments they highlight they don't call suspicious. They just point out some overperformance outliers. If Hans has any case at all here, it's that Chess.com put out a big report clearing him of OTB cheating but making it look they called it suspicious.
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Oct 20, 2022 23:37
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Lack of evidence for A is not evidence that A is not true. In this case, A is cheating OTB.
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Oct 20, 2022 23:45
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tractor fanatic posted:They did. They are extremely clear in their report there's nothing suspicious about him OTB except for his rapid rise, and even the tournaments they highlight they don't call suspicious. They just point out some overperformance outliers. If Hans has any case at all here, it's that Chess.com put out a big report clearing him of OTB cheating but making it look they called it suspicious. They basically said they can't do cheating analysis OTB because they don't have the data they have from his multiple times he was caught cheating online and to which he admitted to, but then lied about the extent. You want to believe a guy who has been caught cheating and lying? Well good for you I guess. I think he'll struggle to get this case past a motion to dismiss since he admits in interviews that he cheats so it is not defamation to call him a cheater.
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Oct 21, 2022 00:15
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Hand Knit posted:Oh hell yes, I was worried this was dying down. Also still laughing at this post a month ago.
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Oct 21, 2022 00:29
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I really don't blame anybody who doesn't want to play against a confessed rampant cheater even if all that cheating happened online it does seem like the preponderance of the evidence is on no otb cheating but like, it's not like chess.com was doing character assassination of some poor innocent player. If anything, outing people willing to cheat in money tournaments should be the norm
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Oct 21, 2022 00:42
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except people do play against online cheaters all the time, and that's just the known cheaters which is apparently the tip of the iceberg I'm sympathetic to the argument that online cheating should be taken seriously but the chess world has not acted at all to make that happen, except in this one case. So I also get why Hans feels persecuted.
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Oct 21, 2022 00:45
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Yeah Chess.com is pretty clear that a large number of GMs including some of the top 100 have been caught cheating and been quietly banned for a time. I think they've been acting kidna scummy, just not sure for 100 million dollars scummy.
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Oct 21, 2022 00:48
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A stunning number of my online losses are against cheaters.
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Oct 21, 2022 00:52
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I've no idea how the legal system works but I'm assuming 100 million dollars just means "idk a gazillion". Like that's not a real number
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Oct 21, 2022 00:52
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Redmark posted:I've no idea how the legal system works but I'm assuming 100 million dollars just means "idk a gazillion". Like that's not a real number basically you just ask for a ridiculous number because it's almost impossible to be rewarded more than you ask for, but asking for way too much doesn't really hard you
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Oct 21, 2022 00:53
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I stand with Hans.
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Oct 21, 2022 00:57
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Starsfan posted:(b) Defendant Hikaru Nakamura (“Nakamura”)—Chess.com’s most I am by no means a legal expert, but from what I understand it would be next to impossible to prove that Hikaru actually colluded with Magnus and Chess.com in a premeditated or organised manner. Is there such a thing as unintentional (accidental?) collusion? Maybe he can prove that he lost revenue do to Hikaru's videos, but collusion is a hard sell. I imagine he just threw this in as an extra "gently caress you" to Hikaru, but the lawsuit is going to focus more on Magnus and Chess.com?
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Oct 21, 2022 01:04
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If there is collusion, it would plausibly leave a paper trail
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Oct 21, 2022 01:06
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I haven't read his lawsuit but I would be pretty interested in an argument that he was potentially targeted given similar or worse records they may have on others. If this case gets to discovery it could be hilarious. Also, chess.com is being super weird about this. Clearly their policy involves getting admission from people about cheating so that they can reban them later without all the fuss, and it gives them a liability shield. Given that, it's a super weird choice that they decided to come out with other cheating incidents outside of that set. That doesn't mean they're wrong, or that they have liability is any kind, but they definitely consciously made a decision to switch up their policy. I feel like it's pretty likely this gets settled for some nominal amount before discovery, assuming it gets past the inevitable motions to dismiss. As always, I stand in support of the funniest outcome though. Also, everyone's actions here should lay to rest the idea that being good at chess is the same as being smart. The legal podcast opening arguments briefly touched on the scandal a few episodes ago, so I would be surprised to see them look at the complaint.
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Oct 21, 2022 01:16
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T.C. posted:Also, chess.com is being super weird about this. Clearly their policy involves getting admission from people about cheating so that they can reban them later without all the fuss, and it gives them a liability shield. In the report chess.com said they never got a written confession from Hans. They have a screenshot of Danny Rensch and Hans discussing sending a confession, but Hans never sent it and they didn't chase him for it. I don't know what the legal implications of that are but it probably isn't great for them.
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Oct 21, 2022 01:53
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Contra Duck posted:In the report chess.com said they never got a written confession from Hans. They have a screenshot of Danny Rensch and Hans discussing sending a confession, but Hans never sent it and they didn't chase him for it. I don't know what the legal implications of that are but it probably isn't great for them. he did confess (though to lesser cheating) publicly before the report dropped. The whole stated reason for the report was that Hans allegedly was lying about the extent of his cheating, in his public confession
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Oct 21, 2022 01:55
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Yeah so they don't have a second confession that contradicts his public statement. They would be in a stronger position if they had that.
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Oct 21, 2022 01:58
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lol chess is amazing content please go to discoveryT.C. posted:The legal podcast opening arguments Your honor, the defense would like to open with c5
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Oct 21, 2022 02:09
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Contra Duck posted:Yeah so they don't have a second confession that contradicts his public statement. They would be in a stronger position if they had that. A stronger position means they go from 99% chance of getting that complaint dismissed to 99.9998% chance.
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Oct 21, 2022 02:23
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Contra Duck posted:In the report chess.com said they never got a written confession from Hans. They have a screenshot of Danny Rensch and Hans discussing sending a confession, but Hans never sent it and they didn't chase him for it. I don't know what the legal implications of that are but it probably isn't great for them. maybe danny should send him another reminder asap
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Oct 21, 2022 02:43
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T.C. posted:Given that, it's a super weird choice that they decided to come out with other cheating incidents outside of that set. That doesn't mean they're wrong, or that they have liability is any kind, but they definitely consciously made a decision to switch up their policy. lmao it's pretty clear chess.com doesn't have any consistent policy and just make poo poo up on the fly to be as opportunistic as possible. Didn't they tell Maxim Dlugy that all of their correspondence about the cheating would be confidential but ended up sending that to Vice anyway? Yeah, I get that the guy is a cheater but it still feels pretty weasely to lie about that kind of stuff to extract a confession.
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Oct 21, 2022 03:48
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Discovery is the funniest outcome. If its anything as good as when Anish Giri's twitter DMs were leaked, there guys are all capital G gamers in the way they view and talk about the world, and I would love to see their dirty laundry aired. Also chess.com makes more sense when you realize its just a startup that realized that no one had tried to monetize the url 'chess.com' more effectively, and they're just doing dumb startup bro poo poo all the way.
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Oct 21, 2022 04:50
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I didn't know about the Twitter thing. Did Nakamura a drop a n-a please in dms? Yikes
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Oct 21, 2022 07:38
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Zak2k12 posted:I am by no means a legal expert, but from what I understand it would be next to impossible to prove that Hikaru actually colluded with Magnus and Chess.com in a premeditated or organised manner. Is there such a thing as unintentional (accidental?) collusion? Maybe he can prove that he lost revenue do to Hikaru's videos, but collusion is a hard sell. I imagine he just threw this in as an extra "gently caress you" to Hikaru, but the lawsuit is going to focus more on Magnus and Chess.com? who cares about proof when you can just tell a judge that everyone who has ever been mean to you is colluding in a conspiracy to ruin your life? quote:FIFTH CAUSE OF ACTION
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Oct 21, 2022 11:53
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in other words, Control Volume posted:107. Many people have stated they do not like me and do not want me playing
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Oct 21, 2022 11:53
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I was not expecting such amazing content from chess. I hope it goes to discovery.
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Oct 21, 2022 12:08
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Thread from legal guy https://twitter.com/AkivaMCohen/status/1583225640873959424 EDIT: https://twitter.com/AkivaMCohen/status/1583266796765052928?s=20&t=AdpnOoypGKMdmfAuBjKkkQ Fangz fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Oct 21, 2022 |
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Oct 21, 2022 15:20
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ALAB when
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Oct 21, 2022 15:31
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